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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
114
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Posted - 2015.05.12 17:44:24 -
[1] - Quote
Hello there.
So DED won't release their detainees. They keep talking about fines, so I assume they need money. And prosecution. Mostly money, I take it, so they can prosecute more people. Budget and all that.
We are all hilariously rich. I say, let's gather our money and throw them at DED, paying the bail. Or wait untill they press the charges and pay these fines. Heroes are free, DED has their money, everyone's happy.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection
Phoebe Freeport Republic
796
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Posted - 2015.05.12 17:50:58 -
[2] - Quote
PFR has sent a message offering them refuge, should they seek it.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Anyanka Funk
Alexylva Paradox
Low-Class
79
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Posted - 2015.05.12 17:55:16 -
[3] - Quote
So the DED has stooped to ransoming people. How do you not consider them pirates again?
Signature removed due to inappropriate content - CCP Falcon
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection
Phoebe Freeport Republic
796
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:01:32 -
[4] - Quote
I've heard rumors on various unsanctioned sub nets that capsulers are planing a protest in Yulai. Join in and show your support for the SCOPE 3
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Tabor Murn
Kaitaua Whamere
99
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:19:45 -
[5] - Quote
None of my heroes are thieves. |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
114
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:27:24 -
[6] - Quote
Tabor Murn wrote:None of my heroes are thieves.
You see, this is an exception. They didn't steal anything, they um... liberated the knowledge from Eifyr's... captivity? So we all know what really is happening. Yeah.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
51
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:28:48 -
[7] - Quote
Anyanka Funk wrote:So the DED has stooped to ransoming people. How do you not consider them pirates again?
That is not the case.
DED is using corporate espionage legislation to detain and question Scope and Eifyr employees. Under the letter of the law, they are within their rights. Ethically? This is the beginning of a slippery slope in terms of news reporting and scientific research. This legislation could potentially be used to detain any individual releasing information to the public or sharing sensitive information that could further scientific understanding.
We'll see if this case stands up in court. I have a hunch that it won't. If these charges had any merit, why wasn't Tukoss detained immediately upon leaving Caldari space for the Republic by DED personnel? My guess is that this is simply a stalling tactic to keep further information from leaking before DED can study and make plans.
My theory is based on the following:
1. Tukoss' transmission was not and is not covered by DED jurisdiction, nor any contract signed by him to Zainou.
2. Tukoss made multiple transmissions, most of which where made public via GalNet.
3. If the transmission was in Eifyr's possession, and indeed was transmitted after Tukoss left the state, then it was not property of Zainou.
A public defender could argue this case and win.
Quote:We are all hilariously rich. I say, let's gather our money and throw them at DED, paying the bail. Or wait untill they press the charges and pay these fines. Heroes are free, DED has their money, everyone's happy. Except for the real criminals, but noone loves them anyway.
There is no bail since no charges have been made. DED is holding the individuals for questioning. That is how they're stalling the potential release of further information.
It is a brilliant legal strategy but will only work for a short time. Hence, the quick analysis of the transmission and meeting Wednesday. I would expect a preliminary statement from unofficial sources Thursday, with a formal announcement Friday or Monday. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection
Phoebe Freeport Republic
798
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:30:19 -
[8] - Quote
Ive been trying but DED is stalling the court proceedings. The Scope did not steal anything the bought the video from a whistle blower.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
6989
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:30:23 -
[9] - Quote
Honestly, I'm increasingly feeling that the party at fault here is Eifyr & Co. CONCORD is using the ICE law as the most convenient cover for learning more about the transmission Eifyr has been holding on to for-- how long?
Indeed, I'm increasingly wondering if this isn't the reason why Eifyr contributed to the Sisters' ship construction efforts.
Still, I can't help but wonder why they didn't share this intelligence with the Republic, at the least, or the DED. I suspect the DED should inquire politely with the Republic as to whether it was informed by Eifyr, as well.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
51
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:35:40 -
[10] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Indeed, I'm increasingly wondering if this isn't the reason why Eifyr contributed to the Sisters' ship construction efforts.
I'm doubting there's a connection here.
Quote:Still, I can't help but wonder why they didn't share this intelligence with the Republic, at the least, or the DED. I suspect the DED should inquire politely with the Republic as to whether it was informed by Eifyr, as well.
Look at the evidence though. If there is indeed merit for the ICE inquiry, it means that DED has reliable information that it was made prior to his leaving Zainou. Even if this is just a baseless accusation it is a historically bad suggestion.
Think about that for a moment. Sharing this intel with the Republic is the least of anyone's worries. |
Sahriah BloodStone
Hunter Killers.
Forsaken Asylum
89
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:41:05 -
[11] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Honestly, I'm increasingly feeling that the party at fault here is Eifyr & Co. CONCORD is using the ICE law as the most convenient cover for learning more about the transmission Eifyr has been holding on to for-- how long?
Indeed, I'm increasingly wondering if this isn't the reason why Eifyr contributed to the Sisters' ship construction efforts.
Still, I can't help but wonder why they didn't share this intelligence with the Republic, at the least, or the DED. I suspect the DED should inquire politely with the Republic as to whether it was informed by Eifyr, as well.
I would need to agree. Eifyr & Co. have shown gross neglect across multiple levels by keeping the video footage to themselves. The whistle blower and the The Scope reporters did the cluster a great service by bringing this information into the public view, and the DED should be thanking them considering they had no knowledge of a armada of Drifters poised to attack us.
I do condemn the Eifyr & Co. employee for selling the video instead of simply leaking it, his intentions were clearly not in the interest of saftey. The Scope reporters however were absolutely within their bounds for what they did.
Shame on you Eifyr & Co. and shame on CONCORD
"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
6990
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:47:56 -
[12] - Quote
The broadcast is certainly made after his departure from Zainou Biotech, some time between his last known communication three years ago, and the appearance of fragmented messages to the Galactic Summit. The CONCORD charge is based on the accusation that the Eifyr & Co employee that sold the broadcast to the Scope engaged in espionage, or at least intellectual property theft.
My point of concern is that the knowledge of a fleet of unknown battleships and a structure of unknown design are matters of cluster security, and Eifyr would clearly be failing in its civic duty if it didn't provide this information to at least some sort of governmental agency. If they had at least provided it to the Republic, then they'd at least performed due diligence, and fault rests with the Republic for not notifying the DED or taking efforts of its own.
However, I get the very serious impression that Eifyr did not notify any sort of governmental agency, but may have provided this information to the one party we know that has been knee-deep in wormhole conspiracy for years: the Sisters of EVE. After all, Eifyr & Co. have ties to the Sisters of EVE, and these ties go back at least a year and a half.
In brief, the question to me is whether Eifyr & Co. engaged in corporate malfeasance.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
114
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Posted - 2015.05.12 18:55:29 -
[13] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:However, I get the very serious impression that Eifyr did not notify any sort of governmental agency, but may have provided this information to the one party we know that has been knee-deep in wormhole conspiracy for years: the Sisters of EVE.
In brief, the question to me is whether Eifyr & Co. engaged in corporate malfeasance.
I agree there with Ms. Priano, but have to add that Zainou are so actively spreading themselves all over the place it almost looks like they are trying to say that they want a piece of Dr. Tukoss.
Eifyr also wants a piece of Dr. Tukoss because he is still, as far as I am aware, their employee. I'd go with them, but it looks like they are not prudent enough. Endangering our cluster and all that, you know.
And now I wait for DED to claim their right for a piece of our belowed scientist.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
51
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:04:26 -
[14] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:In brief, the question to me is whether Eifyr & Co. engaged in corporate malfeasance.
Refusal to alert authorities of a potential threat would certainly qualify as malfeasance. Those are not the current charges. The legal basis for intellectual property theft and espionage would require:
1. The transmission was made based on technology stolen from Zainou.
2. The transmission was made in the course of committing an act of espionage against the claimant, in this case, Zainou.
Unless the assets viewed in the transmission are Zainou property (unlikely), the second is unlikely to stick. The former, however, could be argued to be based on information stolen from Zainou.
How? Simple. If Zainou had foreknowledge of the location that Tukoss was when he made the transmission, and that he willfully used Zainou intellectual property to gain access, then the resulting transmission would be considered property of Zainou. It's a very slippery slope though. Given SCC control over Capsuleer technology, any technology used by Tukoss would be covered by SCC jurisdiction and not DED criminal ordinances or Zainou intellectual property rights.
The problem is that this jurisdiction ends where non-signatory space begins. Unless Tukoss was in CONCORD signatory-held space those legal considerations would hold no merit. It's why CONCORD can't enforce a travel ban on wormholes discovered by Capsuleers.
So; does Zainou and DED know something that Eifyr was not aware of? |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
114
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:07:23 -
[15] - Quote
I didn't know they manufacture lawyers of such a fine quality there in Nation.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
6992
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:17:51 -
[16] - Quote
I remain under the impression that the DED is basing their claim of espionage on the unauthorized sale of Eifyr & Co.'s intellectual property to the Scope, and has no concern whatsoever on Tukoss's history with Zainou. That's a matter for the State, and, to be frank, a dead horse.
Tukoss left Zainou in YC113, and disappeared under unknown circumstances at some point in late YC114 or early YC115. The transmission happened some time after his disappearance, and presumably before the transmissions received YC116.10.24.
I repeat: Zainou is not a party to the DED's accusation in this case. The issue at hand is the Scope's purchase of Eifyr & Co. proprietary information, but that inquiry is very likely a convenient cover for establishing basis for corporate malfeasance on Eifyr & Co.'s part.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Vorion Atreides
The Vikings of Valhalla
Project.Mayhem.
5
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:23:09 -
[17] - Quote
a++a¦ê+ä-£Gö£Gö¼Gö¦Gö¼Gö¦ PsstGǪ you wanna buy some dongers?
Born too late to explore the Earth, born too soon to explore the Galaxy. Born just in time to post DANK Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦Gä¦S
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
4805
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:26:47 -
[18] - Quote
Weird. I could have sworn the header said 'heroes', not thieving journalists.
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions."
"Only a killer would know that..."
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
116
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:28:37 -
[19] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Weird. I could have sworn the header said 'heroes', not thieving journalists.
That's sensationalism for you. They mastered it back in Gallente.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Sahriah BloodStone
Hunter Killers.
Forsaken Asylum
90
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 19:34:17 -
[20] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:
My point of concern is that the knowledge of a fleet of unknown battleships and a structure of unknown design are matters of cluster security, and Eifyr would clearly be failing in its civic duty if it didn't provide this information to at least some sort of governmental agency. If they had at least provided it to the Republic, then they'd at least performed due diligence, and fault rests with the Republic for not notifying the DED or taking efforts of its own.
Agreed. This is my main point of concern also. However i wish to include that the DED have specifically ignored this fact, a fact which far outweighs any potential or alleged crime of The Scope and not even begun an investigation as to why Eifyr did not share this information with a governing body.
CONCORD and the DED have been acting very strange, firstly they release the autopsy report saying as much information as possible should be disseminated to the general public so they can prepare for the worst, to no response when the Drifters attack Yulai, to now, no concern that there is a potential invasion about to start and the ones with prior access to that information kept it secrete.
I suspect something deeper happened at Yulai when the communications blacked out then just a simple attack.
"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
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Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
53
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Posted - 2015.05.12 19:40:06 -
[21] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I repeat: Zainou is not a party to the DED's accusation in this case. The issue at hand is the Scope's purchase of Eifyr & Co. proprietary information, but that inquiry is very likely a convenient cover for establishing basis for corporate malfeasance on Eifyr & Co.'s part.
My apologies, I had a very long night last night.
In that case, the corporate espionage investigation would not be justified either. Malfeasance on the part of Eifyr is also null since, and correct me if I'm wrong, the information was passed on to DED. The release was prior to DED authorization. There may have been breaches of contract and breaches of security procedures. That would be best left to Eifyr's internal reviews over the next few months (and I'm sure there will be many).
Further, my point on intellectual property stands. The recording was made in non-signatory space, unless there is evidence to the contrary. As no charges have been made, my belief is that the DED is attempting to make an example of these individuals and also avoid further leaks from Eifyr before DED has had a chance to investigate the transmission itself. If I were the attorney for the individuals in question I would be salivating over potential litigation.
Again, if I am wrong please feel free to correct me. I'm not feeling quite myself this morning. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
300
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 20:45:50 -
[22] - Quote
Why would Eifyr be charged with anything? Their employee leaked private corporate info.
Now charging The Scope with broadcasting it would be a giant censorship violation.
TELL US WHERE THEY ARE SO WE CAN GO BREAK THEM OUT.
#FreeAmbre
#FreeOcteyncaere
Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.
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Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
That Escalated Quickly.
101
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Posted - 2015.05.12 20:48:16 -
[23] - Quote
I made the same assertions about DED in a recent thread.
A representative from DED basically told me that they didn't care and that they do not to answer to us.
I also offered on behalf of my associates to pay for whatever parole is needed. Since we all know that we can increase our security standings with CONCORD and the DED by buying and reselling certain items to the DED, there should be no reason why these people should be held. DED still refused.
If the DED is going to maneuver outside of accepted legal practice and detain citizens at will without charge or the benefit of trial, then the the people running the DED need to be replaced and DED and CONCORD need to be brought back down to the advisory board that they were originally.
As I've stated. God did not give Amarr an Empire in order for it to be sold to the interests of CONCORD. I'm sure those of you loyal to the Federation, State, Republic and outside corporate interests would feel much the same.
#FreeAmbre
#FreeOcteyncaere
#Angelsareneverfar
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Evi Polevhia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
993
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 20:50:29 -
[24] - Quote
Pick one, Amarrian loyalist or Angel. Wearing both colors clashes and makes you look rather clownish. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
6993
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:12:48 -
[25] - Quote
Arve Vesren wrote:The DED was only made aware of the existence of this footage when it was unlawfully sold to The Scope on May 8th, and our offices were contacted by Eifyr & Co regarding theft of digital property. Since becoming aware of the footage, the DED has begun to analyze the recording, its carrier signal and its transmission origin to attempt to date and locate the nature of the events. At this time we have no further information to disseminate on the subject.
Source.
Even if Eifyr & Co. did finally notify the DED, it remains that this was essentially under duress, knowing that their failure to provide the information earlier would come to light. The length of time they had failed to notify proper authorities is an important question, as is whatever they may or may not have done in the meantime. It may simply be that they're guilty of nonfeasance, instead of malfeasance, or had not possessed the data long enough to warrant any charge whatsoever.
That said, we remain in a situation where a Republic corporation levels charges relating to one of its employee's sale of data to a Federation corporation. Had the employee simply disclosed this information without remuneration, then one could argue that whistleblower laws should cover the employee. However, he sold Eifyr & Co. data to the Scope, which muddles the intentions of the employee and lays him open to accusations of theft, and the Scope to accusations of espionage, as they are purchasing proprietary information belonging to the corporation of another nation.
My recollection, not having read the law since my academy days, is that ICE.YC36 formalizes corporate ownership of employee's activities in various jurisdictions; otherwise, the intellectual property of, say, a Caldari megacorporation would be subject to Federation, Republic, Empire, Kingdom, and State law. In a society of FTL transmission of data between disparate states, you can see how this would prove a significant impediment to interstellar business.
Further, while I doubt very much that there's proper intellectual property enforcement outside of secure space, I suspect CONCORD has ruled that material produced on behalf of a corporation by its employees in unsecure space remains subject to intellectual property laws. Considering that Tukoss's work for Eifyr involved wormhole space research, I would contend that his broadcast is related to his work, and thus constitutes proprietary information belonging to Eifyr & Co.
Ultimately, I tend to think that the employee was in the wrong for selling the data. But this matter pales next to the matter of Eifyr's failure to disclose it in a timely fashion.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Minara Crendraven
The Starbase Consortium - Users Branch
The Starbase Consortium
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:22:49 -
[26] - Quote
Questioning and detaining the Eifyr & Co makes sense under ICE.YC36. Questioning and detaining the Producer and the Journalist of the scope makes none.
It is a clear case of censorship as the Scope was operating under freedom of speech. Eifyr & Co clearly is responsible for Treason to not only keeping this transmission for themselves, but likely giving it to the Sisters of EVE, which is NOT a Republic corporation.
The 2 members of the Scope MUST be freed at once, and i urge the Inner Circle of DED to rise immediatly the level of threat the Drifters pose. I hope they keep their words by spreading everything they'll learn from the footage. |
Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
53
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:26:48 -
[27] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Further, while I doubt very much that there's proper intellectual property enforcement outside of secure space, I suspect CONCORD has ruled that material produced on behalf of a corporation by its employees in unsecure space remains subject to intellectual property laws. Considering that Tukoss's work for Eifyr involved wormhole space research, I would contend that his broadcast is related to his work, and thus constitutes proprietary information belonging to Eifyr & Co.
Understood. A good defense lawyer would however point out the pending litigation with Zainou, therefore putting Eifyr's right to intellectual property into dispute. In fact, if Eifyr kept DED in the dark then this right here is most likely the reason. One could also say that Tukoss himself did not profit from the sale of property from Zainou, and that he in fact released the information and did not pursue further study in relation to his previous employment.
With Tukoss disavowed by Eifyr, his employment and whether or not this transmission is intellectual property of Eifyr also comes into question.
At the very least, delaying hearings and keeping a client free would be the ultimate goal. A skilled lawyer could keep DED, Zainou and Eifyr in court for years while counter-suing at the same time. At the very least they should be able to get their client released once charges are filed.
Personally if I were so inclined this would be a dream to litigate. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
6994
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 21:46:17 -
[28] - Quote
Agreed that this is a legal quagmire. Also relevant is this:
Arve Vesren wrote:Given that Hilen Tukoss is registered with the SCC as an employee of Eifyr & Co, and was struck off from the corporate citizenship roster of both Ishukone and Zainou Biotech with the House of Records, this makes his projects business property of Eifyr & Co, whom have filed complaint with the SCC and DED under the ICE Act YC36 from the jurisdiction of Meinigefur district court.
As Tukoss has been struck from the record, he is formally Disassociated from the State. Any data he generated after being struck would reasonably be Eifyr & Co.'s property, provided it isn't based on misappropriated intellectual property. We could certainly theorize that if Zainou and Ishukone wished to press the matter, they could muddy the water by pressing that any data derived from improperly acquired proprietary information should not be considered Eifyr & Co.'s property, but this would require disclosure of Tukoss's research before he defected, and how rigorous the non-disclosure terms of his contract are. Honestly, were I advising Zainou Biotech, I'd advise them to desist, so that Eifyr & Co. can twist in the wind. CONCORD has apparently already come to a decision on Tukoss, and are unlikely to reverse that decision to lighten the blow to Eifyr & Co.
The question I'd have is this: provided that there's at least some substance to the charge of industrial espionage, would any incriminating evidence from this investigation lend itself to charges of malfeasance against Eifyr & Co.? With the charge of theft of data, is Eifyr & Co. attempting to redirect the investigation? Or will it backfire and give CONCORD the grounds for an investigation into Eifyr & Co.?
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Deceiver's Echo
True Resource Acquisition Corporation
53
|
Posted - 2015.05.12 23:17:53 -
[29] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The question I'd have is this: provided that there's at least some substance to the charge of industrial espionage, would any incriminating evidence from this investigation lend itself to charges of malfeasance against Eifyr & Co.?
Possibly. It depends on the DED investigation.
Quote:With the charge of theft of data, is Eifyr & Co. attempting to redirect the investigation? Or will it backfire and give CONCORD the grounds for an investigation into Eifyr & Co.?
Theft of data charges are common in whistle blower incidents. If the leak had been to government authorities (such as DED), then the data theft charge would pretty much be voided as the leak would be considered in the public interest. Warranted or not, the charges are meant to cover the company from any liability associated with the leak. It's also the beginning of the paper trail to get such leaks struck from the record in other court proceedings, might or might not work. This tactic is commonly used as leverage to force signing of NDA's to drop the theft charge. This could assist in any defense against malfeasance as the whistle blower would be bound by the NDA going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if such an agreement is reached in this case in the coming weeks. |
Kerena Alabel
TerminalDogma
Stain Confederation
24
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Posted - 2015.05.12 23:53:04 -
[30] - Quote
I suggest we as capsuleers force DED's hand and make them release them. We would lose many ships in the process but i think it would be worth it. |
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