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You are all aware warping to 0km is just a test server thing?

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Taralesk Inshani Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.10 19:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. Thank god someone has some sense. . Quote: Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising	Posted - 2006.11.10 20:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Taralesk Inshani Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. Thank god someone has some sense. I have to disagree, who would delete their instas in exchange for a warp to 10km option? I doubt ccp would make this warp to 0km out of the goodness of their heart for newer players, there is a reason for that and somehow im sure a warp to 10km option instead wont cut it.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari eXin Alliance Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.10 21:43:00 - [33] 0.0 WILL be safer with a "warp to 0km" option. Consider the following scenario: I'm happily ratting in an empty 0.0 system. Someone shows up and I feel that they may want to wtfpwn me. Also, the longer I'm in the system, the more likely it is that the hostiles will catch up to me. I decide to move on. Under current system: If I have a bookmark for the area, I will try to use one to escape. Unless I'm at a gate or have a preset insta from the belts, the bookmark may or may not get me close enough to the gate to let me escape. Or I can just warp to 15km and try to get through before I'm caught. Under "Warp to 0km": I warp to the gate of my choice and jump. Unless the hostiles know what gate I went through, it will be very difficult for them to catch me. Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. _ The Billionaire Buccaneer (Now with 50% more Roleplay!)

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Darkon Gatland It happened before and the mods have said its just to make testing easier. Do we have to have this discussion every time SiSi has a new patch on? Our word isn't official and we don't know more than what you guys know. But we do know it makes testing easier thats all. ___ Email Us (Report a bad post) \| Forum Rules - Read 'em! \| Website

Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Edit, youre right though, campers will adapt. Smartbombing battleships, killing people before they can even select the gate, 4tw. Select the gate? Ever heard of an autopilot? -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. These two statements are not in conflict. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Jesters Knight Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.10 22:54:00 - [37] After living in 0.0 for several months the only difference that warp to 0 will make is less lag. If you are intelligent then you can use your GTG bms to get out of a system even with hostiles in it as long as they donÆt have a bubble camp at the gate, and at that point warp to 0 wouldnÆt help you anyway. I say stick warp to 0 in there, it will make the game A LOT less laggy and people will find that real pirating will be more or less the same, just with more targets as there are more people willing to go into lower security systems without having to copying 5 bmÆs at a time to there scout to get down there. Honestly, how many times has someone who had good instas and could use them fallen for a trap in lowsec to a pirate when they warped in? So you donÆt get the easy kill because of someone who didnÆt know what to do; cry me a river, and then go drown in it. A smart pirate will still have the same kills as before, and a stupid runner will still die (maybe not quite as quick though) Ingame website to help management (+)+(*^) = ^+
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.11 00:52:00 - [38] Plenty of times, though never in anything that i couldnt escape the bubble with. Its called teamwork, industrials cant run around solo in 0.0, they need a scout and some escorts." Whatever, no teamwork saves you from a bubble, you cannot effectively escort ships in eve, you can only scout and avoid. Try flying a ship that matters through a bubble, like a BS. All your proving is that fast small ships need a nerf because ONLY THEY are too safe. You know there are alot of things in eve that require somehting more than a inty or frig equipped with a mwd, so it is silly to suggest eve should be balanced around the fact a small set of ships are nearly immune to bubble camps.
Lo3d3R Implant Liberation Front Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:26:00 - [39] dont count on free hauling trips without danger you BEARS !!! not everyone has the bookmarks everywhere by a longshot !!! mwhahaha i will sleep well tonight ___________________ Eating Chopped Bear:
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.11 01:39:00 - [40] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Darkon Gatland It happened before and the mods have said its just to make testing easier. Do we have to have this discussion every time SiSi has a new patch on? They didnt disable bookmarks last time. Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. Never been trapped in a bubble on the jump in in 0.0 eh? Plenty of times, though never in anything that i couldnt escape the bubble with. Its called teamwork, industrials cant run around solo in 0.0, they need a scout and some escorts. 0.0 will be a lot safer with the current warp to 0 changes, you can warp to camped gate from any direction to avoid bubble camps. stop talking out your pirate arse Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.11 02:01:00 - [41] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Darkon Gatland It happened before and the mods have said its just to make testing easier. Do we have to have this discussion every time SiSi has a new patch on? They didnt disable bookmarks last time. Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. 10km is still too far, unless you're in a fast ship - if you're in a hauler or barge, you're humped - removing BM's and putting people 10km out would be disasterous best solution i've yet heard would be to add a warp to 0km option that's affected by skill - if you're level 1 you have a 15% chance of comign in at 0km, if you're 5 you have a 85% chance. This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Poyzin	Posted - 2006.11.11 02:11:00 - [42] Only time will tell! I do not doubt the creativity of the masses when it comes to big changes like these...
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.11 02:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Darkon Gatland It happened before and the mods have said its just to make testing easier. Do we have to have this discussion every time SiSi has a new patch on? They didnt disable bookmarks last time. Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. 10km is still too far, unless you're in a fast ship - if you're in a hauler or barge, you're humped - removing BM's and putting people 10km out would be disasterous best solution i've yet heard would be to add a warp to 0km option that's affected by skill - if you're level 1 you have a 15% chance of comign in at 0km, if you're 5 you have a 85% chance. So I set my default to "Warp to 15" and keep using my instas. --- Recently returned from vacation on a sunny planet in 0.0. Guess which one!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.11 02:23:00 - [44] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Darkon Gatland It happened before and the mods have said its just to make testing easier. Do we have to have this discussion every time SiSi has a new patch on? They didnt disable bookmarks last time. Personally i hope they remove bookmarks and reduce warp in range to 10km. 0 is just too easy, 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous. 10km is still too far, unless you're in a fast ship - if you're in a hauler or barge, you're humped - removing BM's and putting people 10km out would be disasterous best solution i've yet heard would be to add a warp to 0km option that's affected by skill - if you're level 1 you have a 15% chance of comign in at 0km, if you're 5 you have a 85% chance. So I set my default to "Warp to 15" and keep using my instas. isn't the point of "warp to 0" that they'll move removing instas, so doesn't that make your point moot? i would personally like to keep the insta system, i've used it for a long time and am comfortable with it, but it's causing problems so they need to address it and it looks like this is how they're going to address it, so saying that you'll keep using your insta's is a worthless argument because you're not going to have a choice in the matter. This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Cheese999 Minmatar Spitefully Targeting Foolishly Underskilled The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.11.11 03:09:00 - [45] Correct me if Im wrong: Instas are an unintended consequence of the bookmark system. Unintended consequences of game systems that give an unfair advantage are called exploits. Now this is the important bit. When there is an exploit it is generaly removed ASAP to correct the game balance back to the designers intention This leaves two possibilities. 1) CCP likes having instas in game and plans on keeping them (Introducing warp to 0) 2) CCP dislikes instas and plans on removing them (Removing bookmarks near gates/stations) Given the amount of time that has passed since the introduction of instas, (1) appears to be the response of CCP. In conclusion, all your base are belong to us. ----- There is no Spoon
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.11 03:34:00 - [46] Originally by: Cheese999 Correct me if Im wrong: Instas are an unintended consequence of the bookmark system. Unintended consequences of game systems that give an unfair advantage are called exploits. Now this is the important bit. When there is an exploit it is generaly removed ASAP to correct the game balance back to the designers intention i'd disagree that players finding creative ways of using ingame systems automatically equates to it being an exploit. i don't really think insta's fall into the "unfair advantage" category. the devs put the system in, they just didn't expect the player base to get so creative with it they've said numerous times that BM's are causing a ridiculous amount of lag, and i've yet to see them say they're removing them because they don't like how we're using them (although i could be wrong and if so, please link me to where i can see that). if they could reduce the lag and keep the BM's, who knows, maybe they would This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Arlenna Molatov	Posted - 2006.11.11 03:36:00 - [47] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Lisento Slaven It's no different from warping to a safespot or warping to a station with an instadock. That statement right there irks me since it was never supposed to be possible as a tactic. So why use that argument to validate more of the same? Says who?? Since when was warping to a SS not supposed to be part of the game?? You need to stop pulling crap out of your rear before you try to make an argument. CCP initially didn't want people warping right to gates. But guess what, their bookmark system allowed this. The could not forsee it as they cannot forsee A LOT of the things people come up with in this game. So what came of it? a good 80% of the whole game now uses bookmark, much to the whole game-performances dislikes. So, you are left with a decision to make buddy. Since approx 80% of the people in this game use bookmarks to efefctively warp to gate at 0km already you can 1) leave the system the way it is and more and more and more BM's are made clogging the system even more..and not many people will say anything about it or 2) you remove ALL gate BMs and replace with the 0km approach that people use anyways EXCEPT you remove all those 100k's of BMs that clog the sytem up. Lets face it, warping directly to a gate has been used so long by so many, CCP would effectivey have a riot if they removed BMs and did not put something in their place. And thats a fact. So its time to get over it and accept it.
Arlenna Molatov	Posted - 2006.11.11 03:39:00 - [48] And in addition to to my above post, if you can't use warp bubbles or dictors as they are used right now in game, then you have no business *****ing about gate camps and how anyone wont be able to catch ships. AS the guy a few posts up said, a 0km warp option will not help you in the LEAST if a gate is bubbled, period. No matter HOW hard to try to whine diferently. BM's dont work through a bubbled gate nor will a 0km warp. SO, try another argument.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Odd Bob I find it hilareous ready opinions shedding so many tears about not being able to restrict other peoples game content anymore through this retarded idea of what pvp is. Just about everytime ive tried to go low sec/0.0 ratting ive being blown out of the sky by some 2-3 year old player whose idea of pvp is quite hilareously gate camping one shotting noob corps members/people on trial accounts wanting to see some of that huge map thats Eve. Now youll have to learn to play, hunt down miners, haulers, ratters as they work the belts, no more watching the paint dry on that warp gate as u wait for next tedious and easy kill :) Moves like this will help the game grow, its needs growth to survive, the sad fact of the matter is Eve needs to lose a bit of geekishness, that wont hurt anybody. Q F T --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux 0.0 WILL be safer with a "warp to 0km" option. Consider the following scenario: I'm happily ratting in an empty 0.0 system. Someone shows up and I feel that they may want to wtfpwn me. Also, the longer I'm in the system, the more likely it is that the hostiles will catch up to me. I decide to move on. Under current system: If I have a bookmark for the area, I will try to use one to escape. Unless I'm at a gate or have a preset insta from the belts, the bookmark may or may not get me close enough to the gate to let me escape. Or I can just warp to 15km and try to get through before I'm caught. Under "Warp to 0km": I warp to the gate of my choice and jump. Unless the hostiles know what gate I went through, it will be very difficult for them to catch me. Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. Why wouldn't you warp to one of your bookmarks in between gates in such a case? That's really the problem too. It's bad enough that everyone and their alts has bookmarks from gate a to gate b, but in order to be assured that you can in fact avoid being stuck 14km from the gate you tried to insta warp to, you need mid warp bookmarks so you can hit the gates from anywhere in system. New regions get added, new players keep coming on board, and the bad lag goes to completely out of control lag (or is it there now?). It doesn't take too many poddings before a new player catches on and starts saving up their ISK for bookmarks, or simply joins a player corp where they get copies of bookmarks for most of Eve for free. I have bookmarks for regions I've never even been to FFS. Yes, it's going to be easier to get a spy alt up and running, and yes, ganking new players will get a little bit harder, although new players are bound to make enough mistakes that they'll still end up taking the clone express back home enough times regardless of warp to distances. People still need to get aligned to an object to warp to, that hasn't changed even a little bit. If it's going to save the servers from having a complete meltdown, whether you like the change, hate the change or couldn't care less one way or the other, it's needed. J.A.F.O.
Leverton Caldari AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:31:00 - [51] Frankly it wouldn't surprise me either way. It makes sense that they are temporary, and it also makes sense that they are permanent. -- The universe is governed by the aggressive use of force. Hows this for a little note! Oh, and YARRRRR!! - Petwraith I prefer the term RAWR - Xorus
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.11 06:42:00 - [52] Well I've always been of the opinion that travel should be relatively unrestricted whilst making a profit should only go to the dareing and intelligent.. Warp to 0km GTG makes that a reality for all eve players and to me thats a huge step in the right direction or we will never get the timid to step out of the Wow like empire space.. And I could care less about solo pirates and thier whines as I used to be one too and promptly gave it up due to the fact it was one of the easiest proffessions in the game next to mining veld with Chribba in 1.0 space.. [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus"
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.11 08:35:00 - [53] they way that the instas are in test server is not THAT bad becouse if u auto pilto u will be still 15km from the gate where you jump.... and there are LOADS of stupid ppl who auto pilot throught dangerous areas.... including 0.0
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising	Posted - 2006.11.11 09:42:00 - [54] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux 0.0 WILL be safer with a "warp to 0km" option. Consider the following scenario: I'm happily ratting in an empty 0.0 system. Someone shows up and I feel that they may want to wtfpwn me. Also, the longer I'm in the system, the more likely it is that the hostiles will catch up to me. I decide to move on. Under current system: If I have a bookmark for the area, I will try to use one to escape. Unless I'm at a gate or have a preset insta from the belts, the bookmark may or may not get me close enough to the gate to let me escape. Or I can just warp to 15km and try to get through before I'm caught. Under "Warp to 0km": I warp to the gate of my choice and jump. Unless the hostiles know what gate I went through, it will be very difficult for them to catch me. Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. Now let me tell you how you do it the proper way . 1.) You see the hostile in local and think its time to move on. 2.) You warp to a safespot within scannerrange of the gate you intend to use that lies between two gates you have instas for. 3.) You hit your scanner and check wether the gate is clear(cause you know your insta is not going to do you much good if there is already a inty sitting on the gate and jumping with you). 4.) You use your g2g insta to warp to the gate if its clear or repeat the procedure for the other gates if not. You know this procedure is much safer than just hoping the gate your warping to is clear. Its already doable with current instas, and will be the proper way to do it after warp to 0. Only difference will be that your scanner spot doesnt have to lie between two gates, which is irrelevant as you will only be using it for a few secs and if your enemy is in a interdictor(and a few buddys close by) at the gate your warping to you can assume yourself screwed anyway. And yet even with this there is no complete safety, the guy warping to your system could be a scout for a fleet waiting in the next system(or two systems behind) and you warping right into them. Or he could be in a recon ship, jumping with you through the gate, and holding you down the other side while calling his buddys in. You know what really annoys me? Not people able to insta warp to every gate from everywhere, i can deal with that, its taken into account anyway as a worstcase scenario. What really annoys me is people warping to a safespot assoon as hostiles enter the system and cloaking THAT is complete safety in 0.0, not insta warps from everywhere.
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:02:00 - [55] I managed to get some time talking to a dev at fanfest one on one. While the dev did not say that this solution was going to go to TQ, it was mentioned that there is a growing and very vocal lobby group inside CCP that is crusading for the removal of bookmarks or at the very least instas. All the instas people have is one of the main causes of trouble with the database lag that people experience now. mostly because insta's (especially those kept in cans when not needed) are in something like 3 or 4 different database tables. I would expect to see a change with kali mostly because they are changing bookmarks a little so that they also show up on the map when you are in the solar system level. because of that change, new information needs to be saved with the BM coordinates so it makes sense to implement some sort of insta solution. I will say that have played on the test server a bit, you can manually warp to 0 to anything on the test server. autopilot will only warp to 15km though.
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux 0.0 WILL be safer with a "warp to 0km" option. Consider the following scenario: I'm happily ratting in an empty 0.0 system. Someone shows up and I feel that they may want to wtfpwn me. Also, the longer I'm in the system, the more likely it is that the hostiles will catch up to me. I decide to move on. Under current system: If I have a bookmark for the area, I will try to use one to escape. Unless I'm at a gate or have a preset insta from the belts, the bookmark may or may not get me close enough to the gate to let me escape. Or I can just warp to 15km and try to get through before I'm caught. Under "Warp to 0km": I warp to the gate of my choice and jump. Unless the hostiles know what gate I went through, it will be very difficult for them to catch me. Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. Setting up a buble ?????? you only need a interdictor !!!! What happens in reallity is that you warp to a pre made ss and wait... if you try to run for a gate with hostiles in system you might be jumping to your death ... even if you managed to jump out you will probably be caught on the other side.... This already happens in Tranquility and nothing will change in Kali with the new warp to 0 km. You are only complaining because the 0 km option will stop the abusing of those pilots that dont have insta BMS... My opinion is bring it... everyone will be on equal terms and tbh this is something that will bring more people to 0 space ... you can actually grab a frig and set your destination to a far region to take a look without taking ages making it...
Cletus Graeme Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2006.11.11 11:49:00 - [57] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 11/11/2006 11:52:47 Originally by: Pesky LaRue best solution i've yet heard would be to add a warp to 0km option that's affected by skill - if you're level 1 you have a 15% chance of comign in at 0km, if you're 5 you have a 85% chance. The problem with making warp to 0.0 a skill is it's just another time sink. Once ppl have trained it they will be able to warp as if they had instas which causes the problems that people have already mentioned (makes it too easy etc). If it was implemented as a skill it would have to be a very high rank (10 ?) so that it took a LONG time to get to lvl 5 and be able to warp to 0.0. It is a good, simple, workable idea though. Another possibility would be to vary the (1) distance you arrive from the gate (2) time it takes u to jump thru the gate for different ship sizes/classes. For example, (1) smaller ships would warp more accurately than larger ones so a shuttle would effectively always warp to 0.0 while a battleship might only ever get as close as 10km. This maintains the risk of being engaged and scrammed BEFORE you reach the gate but makes it very difficult to SNIPE as you will only have enough time to lock the larger ships which should be able to tank the damage you can deal to them before they reach the gate. You could also incorporate this into the new ships "customization" options coming in Kali by having a module (rig ?) which you can fit to improve your "warp resolution" at the cost of something else (e.g. capacitor energy). (2) you could vary the gate activation time so that smaller ships would jump thru more quickly than larger ships. This would not affect the jumping ship itself but instead those ships which were following it thru the gate. A large ship (with a long activation time) might delay ships behind it from "gating" long enough for them to be scrammed. The length of the gate activation time could also provide campers with an audible clue as to what kind of ship is jumping in (before it uncloaks and becomes visible). If they were able to correctly identify the class of the incoming ship from it's "activation signature", then this would improve their chances of trapping it. I would expect (1) to be easier to implement than (2).
Scius Amarr Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.11.11 12:30:00 - [58] implement warp to zero, dont have it as an option for auto pilot, bm's are getting out of hand & tbh if you have them its your personal warp to zero anyway. People will start going out to 0.0 :) this is great, more to kill more loot & more fun. Adapt, this is no biggy, theres been worse over the 3 odd years ive played.
Armois Delgato FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.11 13:33:00 - [59] I really hope warp to 0 comes in. I would love to be able to delete my 30 odd regions of gate to gate instas that make P&P lag to high hell whenever I need to access it.
Royaldo KVA Noble Inc. THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.11.12 17:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux 0.0 WILL be safer with a "warp to 0km" option. Consider the following scenario: I'm happily ratting in an empty 0.0 system. Someone shows up and I feel that they may want to wtfpwn me. Also, the longer I'm in the system, the more likely it is that the hostiles will catch up to me. I decide to move on. Under current system: If I have a bookmark for the area, I will try to use one to escape. Unless I'm at a gate or have a preset insta from the belts, the bookmark may or may not get me close enough to the gate to let me escape. Or I can just warp to 15km and try to get through before I'm caught. Under "Warp to 0km": I warp to the gate of my choice and jump. Unless the hostiles know what gate I went through, it will be very difficult for them to catch me. Assuming I moved fast enough to keep them from setting up a bubble, my safety is all but assured. In closing, safety should never be assured in 0.0 space. leave the sys? why on earth would you leave the sys when ratting and someone enters local? why why why? by leaveing you are exposing yourself alot more. you jump to ss. thats what you do, then jump around on different ss's every now and then till local clears again

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