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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
894
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Posted - 2015.05.15 11:36:18 -
[1] - Quote
This thread makes me giggle....
OP just an FYI fleets are usually made up of more than one ship... you say battleships cant hit cruisers or frigs.... add in a couple of webbing loki's (prob what died in that vid), bubbles, TP's... then watch as they steam roll whatevers on grid.
What you dont seem to realise is that the meta in this game changes. Fleets change to counter whatever fleet was the counter before them. Ishtars were the flavor of the month down to broken'ness, before that there was alpha fleet, tengu's, drake fleet, zealots.... each the counter to something else or whatever was happening in game at the time. Some brightspark might find that cruise ravens is the next big thing... who knows... but just because battleships arent used right now doesnt mean theyre broken...
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.18 08:23:47 -
[2] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote: Nope. I am not going to let you not include T3s. Again if you re read the first post you will see that I couldn't care less about what fit you used to kill a frig or cruiser, just that for the SP invested, battleships don't do anything smaller ships or cap ship can do better. Except for high sec structure fights/PVE.
Ok ok so T3's ... they do a lot of things too well (needs moar nerf), and some do specific things really really well which make FC's go cross eyed.
But theyre still not the end all. And SP wise there isnt much between a T3 and a BS....
You say that there is always another ship that will do the job better than a BS... fine... Some fleet ships that are pretty basic...
Please show me a sub cap that isnt a BS that can hit with an alpha 10000dmg out to 70km with over 100k hp? (Maelstrom)
Or perhaps 800dps at 80km with over 150k hp? (Abaddon)
Wont touch Navy or faction ships because that might be a bit unfair... and cost seems to be a problem for you... (no srp?)
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.19 07:55:56 -
[3] - Quote
Aza Ebanu wrote:On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.
Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?
Theoretic fleets??? Battleship fleets are REAL dude
Paper Dps? They DO put out a lot of dps... is pretty easy to compensate for tracking or similar in a fleet, which means your apparent paper dps suddenly starts smashing all the little cruisers.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.19 13:14:22 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Check out the geddon
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Or the phoon.
Dont even get started on Pirate or Navy BattleShips....
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.20 09:33:22 -
[5] - Quote
All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)
My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.22 10:38:03 -
[6] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)
My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta
Armour BS fleets don't worry about bombs and align/warp times are easily delt with.
Depends on the number of bombs And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time
Aza Ebanu wrote:Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.
To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.
In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships. Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.
The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.
duuuuuuuuuuude!!! what are you on?
A fleet BS will (at least) have 10 to 15 TIMES the hitpoints of the best tanked frigate... Better Logistic support... And support ships that will allow said battleships to pwn every frigate that comes close.... And thats not refitting at all to deal with smaller ships....
But heres the main reason why battleships dont worry about frigates... MOST can at the very least field a flight of light drones (no bonuses)... multiply that by the number of battleships... assign to say.... a hic? Lach? Hug?and suddenly you have Hundreds of drones buzzing around your head. Most battleships wont even waste the ammo to shoot you.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
895
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:03:03 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Depends on the number of bombs It would take over 100 bombs to take out an armour BS fleet. ChromeStriker wrote:And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time I have BS that give assault frigates a run for their money.
... 48 ish against max tanked abbadons... in 8 wings of 6....
yes yes we all have a nano battleship... tbh however much fun that is... would rather go that fast and not waste the slots... a guy can dream
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
897
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Posted - 2015.05.31 13:42:09 -
[8] - Quote
the real travesty is the T1 fit and NO rigs :(
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
899
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Posted - 2015.07.01 13:04:26 -
[9] - Quote
Lilith Folkvardr wrote:Okay.. I wasn't going to add to this thread but I just have to say a few things..
Welcome to the fun that is 'Ships & Modules'
We're all already igonring what the OP says lol.... just so happens its actually kicked off a constructive discusion on BS's
Lilith Folkvardr wrote:- A BS can and will escape any situation if fit with a MWD and MJD.
This just isnt true One Scram will ruin your day
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
899
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Posted - 2015.07.01 15:08:28 -
[10] - Quote
Lilith Folkvardr wrote:Quote:This just isnt true Blink One Scram will ruin your day I am yet to meet a Frigate that can keep me Scrammed when I am using Rapid Heavies :D let alone one of their friends to fill that job after his buddy died in 2 hits, haha! :D I love my Typhoon :P Though I have had issues with brick fits with Scrams on a Cruiser hull, bloody Mallers..
Unfortunatly cruisers are a thing, which is one of the main arguments with BS's. Also you seem to be talking solo and smaller size fights... peeps only need to keep a scram on you long enough untill theyre friends arrive lol
I have a similar fit phoon too, so i know what your saying, but when you take it into a fight with say 20 other pilots... the arguement for cruisers or frigates becomes greater.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
899
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:11:06 -
[11] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ortilus Orsides wrote:
A savage nerf will ruin these ships, ships that thousands of pilots in eve fly and greatly enjoy. The sub rate for eve now is the lowest I've seen in the 3 years I've played this game, the annihilation of T3Cs would be the final blow for eve old timer.
You seem to judge ships based on their roles in fleets, but you forgot old timer that not everyone plays this game in fleets. Believe it or not some pilots in eve actually play this game solo. And from a solo standpoint the T3Cs are definitely not OP. T3Cs have very tiny cargo holds and cap capacity which means all it takes is just ONE heavy neut to ruin any T3Cs day. Not to mention that you lose SP when you die in these ships xD. They are SLOW even when using the fuel catalyst sub, the fastest speed you can reach is around 1.3k m/s (with links, bling, & implants). The only attribute that is a little high is their base ehp which is around T2 BC level. Other than that, if anything these ships can use a buff and if CCP would be so kind, they can add an off setting ROLE bonus to these ships like:
*CANNOT BE USED IN FLEETS.
Same argument was used for the nano nerf which impacted every single ship, EVE thrived. Same argument was used again for tracking titans, drone swarm supers and everything else that was overpowered. Cruisers should not be getting top end cruiser speeds, very low sigs, battlecruiser firepower, high end battleship tanks all while being cap stable. The need a savage nerf because of how out of whak they are for their class. They are cruisers, they need the stats of a cruiser not shiptypes two classes above them.
I would go as far to say they need less tank than a "tanky" cruiser when fit that way, less speed than the "faster" cruisers etc etc... as it stands now if someone says "I need a cruiser to do X", X is a T3 cruiser way too often...
T3's offer variation in a single ship, but shouldnt be "better" than another dedicated cruisers role.
AND they shouldnt be able to fit for tank and dps and speed and whatever... pick one. make it good. but not the go to for tha roll. (better to have a Vaga if you want speed, better to have a deimos for damage etc)
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