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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 14:15:08
This will be my first post since the first time i played in the Beta where i have specificly stated CCP made a serius mistake in changes to the game. I do not write this happily
So I just finished reading the new dev blog about the new gang hirearchy, And remainded speechless for about 5 sec. before I realized how much that swift kick to the nuts really hurt.
At first it sounds really cool having the gang split up into squads and being able to issue orders. But then theres those little mentions about how gang bonuses are going to work.
Unless your in a "Fleet" gang bonuses WILL NOT DO ANYTHING.
Well that works out well for small corps and the rest of the world not being an allience.
And worse even if you are in a fleet only the bonuses of commanders and squad leaders Will be used at all!
then there was this really laughable line at the very end saying this new thing will make people more interested in specializing for leadership bonuses!!
How exactly is that supposed to work when you have restricted leaderships usefullness to large scale fleet battles and only the commanders of those battles? because let me tell you I really want some noob thats just starting to train the skill to be the only person in my fleet that gives gang bonuses.
and not to forget the fact that the way fleet battles are the Comander and gang modules are mutualy exclusive. Commanders need to be on the battlefield and calling targets while gang support needs to be off the battlefield, not getting blown up in 3 seconds.
I have never once since I started playing in the beta made a post in which i said that due to changes in the game My previusly trained skill points are now worthless. but as it looks now i have spent 8 million skill points on leadership so I can spec in gang bonuses, And since i'm not one of an alliences fleet commanders They really will be useless. because unlike other changes where the skill points just don't make you uber powerful. Now they reallly won't be used.
And even worse you tell us now that Kali has been "Frozen" when it's too late for us to change it.
Explain to me now why this will make a noob want to train for leadership skills?
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:36:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 14:38:38
I understand what it is Meantto do, but in the way it was implimented it has knee capped all but a specific few individuals.
Offering a salution what if they implimented another special role such as the scout but make it a "Support" role and allow 1-2 or so individuals to be placed with that role.
The problem is that it has made the usfullness of gang modules and bonuses to Specalized. Now to be usefull I have to not only pre-train the skills to a usefulll lvl bit also be able and want to be a fleet commander of medium to large groups
Interestingly enough in order to make blobs less viable they have destroyed the small scale groupings
also a smaller corps getting an 8 person gang together can be difficult in and of itself
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 15:22:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 15:25:12
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 15:24:24
exactly thats the problem, they impliment this major change after people have put millions of skill points into the catagory.
it would be like you training all those gunnery skill points then them saying in each gang only the "Fighter" will be allowed to use guns and you are only allowed to have 3 in each gang.
Saying your training is useless is silly. The sky is not falling, unless you want to it.
Or if your in a small nonallience corp.
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 15:25:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cold Gorilla
Originally by: Malena
8.6 million in leadership...basically down the tubes. The character that has them is not a fleet commander, not will he ever be... it will not be viable for him to be the one designating targets and such while he is in the FC role, and he won't be giving bonusses unless he is in that FC role, at least that is how I understand it. So no, I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THESE CHANGES.
clocked fleet command ship anyone?
Uhh cloak means no active modules,.....how exactly is that supposed to help with gang support modules that need to be activated?
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 15:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 15:55:28
swoj you failing to see the point of that post, so i'll restate it
with only a few open spots in each gang where gang bonuses will be used. If you don't yet have lots of skill points in leadership, your not going to be put into that position. Therefore people will ahve to train over 2 million skill points into a catagory Before they get ANY use out of them.
And yes i know the comment about how commanders will have to be promoted and moved in to position, but honestly if your a lfeet commander are you going to want to have 2-3 ships setup for gang support that won't be used until/unless you get blown up? no your going to tell them to get into something useful and fight so he doesn't get blown up.
If you have the leadership skills already, then take the lead :)
and what if you don't want to be the fleet commander, or as i've stated before are in a small non allience corp.
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cadman Weyland
Originally by: swoj
stuff
On the plus side i see Command ships being cheaper now 
oooo Good point, that is one thing i hadn't thought of, then again being minmitar Claymores were already cheaper than either of the two HACs and the Slipnier almost so only 20-30 mil more than a muninn
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 16:39:00 -
[7]
so your saying that if i'm in a small corp that i should train so i can command 30+ people? how exactly is that supposed to help..?
maybe it won't be so bad in a 100+ man fleet well congradulations i hope you and all the blob wars enjoy it.
And no reason to give up teh old system if you don't want to?
Umm the problem is i'm being forced to
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 17:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aleis on 10/11/2006 17:47:43
if the real probelm was that there was massive server load figureing out who had teh best bonuses then add in a role of "Support" and give a number of slots for that, Son't force us into a leadership position.
No you don't need to use the new commander tools to be teh leader of a fleet, then again you don't have to be in a corperation to work to gether but i don't see many people taking that option either.
You trained leadership skill points and don't want to lead
Exactly
And like you siad please don't bring in real life relationships into the game they never work. Just because they are called leadership doesn't mean they have any relation to actualy leading....or at least until this massive change came in.
I'm a support charater. I trained Support skills, regaurdless of what they are called. Maybe they should have their name changed to Support, Oh wait that was mentioned and the only reason they aren't changing the name of the Leadership skill is because it has been to integrated into other game elements as to make it unfeasable to edit all refrences to it.
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.10 18:22:00 -
[9]
Speaking of carriers... Everyone with 5mil+ in leadership (/me raises hand) should probably start thinking about carriers - with carrier skill at 4 you get 4 gang mods, and post Kali you have a very large hitpoint buffer...
I have been unfortuantly i hate battleships so I'd have to start from scratch to train that up, yes indeed i've been playing since beta and don't fly anyhting larger than a BC.
But i'm a support character and the carriers are the ultimate support ships so i have been thinking on it....jus tthat 90 day+ training to get there thats the bugger of all,
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.11 16:46:00 -
[10]
yes yes you can form a fleet to use teh gang mods, and yes i know you could be squad leader or bigger but your still be FORCED into a Command position. I'm not a commander i'm Logistics.
and theres this other misconseption
Anyone traning for gang mods is an afk alt. And thus a lot of people are saying so what. But what about those people that are ACTIVE gang support players. This is what I do in the game and i have no alt.
And yes if your a commander of the fleet you do need to command specialy if they begin implimenting formations, now that they have added in new features it's just going to be more important that the right person be at teh top or near the top.
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.12 04:23:00 -
[11]
Sang do it's not a nerf in the normal sence where they make the modules effectiness lower, but more a restructuring of teh game mechanics on When you can use them.
So yeah basicly sort of a nerf, since they aren't as versitile as they used to be......i guess
but more along the lines of not happy with change
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.13 19:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Skeltek
Edited by: Skeltek on 12/11/2006 16:53:43
But to answer your questions: There is no reason to do that, leadership skills will still be distributed on others, even if not in the same grid afaik.
All you have to do is being an afk wingcommander or squadleader.
A wingcommander giving gangsupport to up to 50 players may idle afk anywhere he wants.
kind regards, Skeltek
And i'll say it again yes you can be int he leadership position with out actualy leading but thats not the point.
You could form a corperation with an alt as teh ceo then delete the charatcer but really is that going to help you any?
they are giving the comanders special tools for managing teh gang or sub groups there of and the REal ingame commander is going to need those tools to match teh the enamies coordination, especialy when ccp adds more depth to formations and fleets.
so again that arguement is null and void and doesn't mean squat.
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.14 16:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Decairn
Edited by: Decairn on 13/11/2006 22:19:24
To the last point, those in capital ships already have a very full and demanding training plan. Adding in the advanced leadership ones (leadership, a warfare, warefare spec, squad command, wing command, fleet command, cybernetics) is a tad heavy on top.
Another post that interestingly completely ignors the entire thread.
and again what if the titan pilot doesn't want to be the Fleet commander?
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Aleis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.15 04:21:00 -
[14]
ahh i see what your getting at, sorry then and....yeah good point......and really it is now that i think about it or rather now that i'm starting to train up for carriers more or less from scratch (I didn't train up for big ships) I'm looking at 3 months of training just to get into a carrier and i've been on for a long time,
I can't imagine what it would be like for a new player to not only try and get into capital ships but also be able to really handle gang assist modles, 6 months? of dedicated training almost i'm thinking, and thats not to be really good simply adiquate? longer once they add in the new required skills for controlling large gangs. 7 months of dedicated traning just ot be a fleet commander?....ouch specilization is great but really that intensive of spec. into something as universal as running a gang is wayyy to long.
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