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Walking in stations IS A REALITY

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Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 19:34:00 - [1] To be honest... I couldn't care less about seeing my avatar walk around in a station. The resources devoted to this could/should have been better spent elsewhere. Additions like this are fluff. EVE has always been a game dedicated to substantive gameplay... not fluff. Color me disappointed. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 20:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 20:10:03 To be honest, my knowledge of Earth & Beyond is limited to a few hours of playing around with it and immediately becoming nauseated. It felt like Disney in space to me. My personal feelings aside though... I don't think there is anything wrong with throwing a cookie to the E&B crowd that have come to make a new home in EVE. Hell, I don't even mind having a station enviroment where I can see my character. My point is that I personally don't care. I won't spend more time than necessary looking at my stupid avatar... no more time than I do now staring at my character portrait... which is about zero. The problem is that fluff like this requires resources that are better spent elsewhere. Hiring coders requires paying them... and a paid coder can be working on far more useful projects other than, 'Could you make this guy's boots look a little more shiney when he's standing in front of the drink dispenser in the station?' Granted, I'm functioning on many assumptions here. However, I can personally come up with an incredibly long list of things that need to be addressed before insubstantial crap like walking in a station. I don't mean to be inconsiderate to those at CCP. EVE is an incredible game... but come on. What does this really matter? EVE is a game about combat, politics, production, finances, etc. Full-body avatars bring nothing to the table in the way of substance. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 21:43:00 - [3] Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 21:46:32 Originally by: Avernus Anyone here remember the game Elite? Go anywhere, do anything. <- That is Eve. Eve is a sandbox, if you want to limit yourself in what you want to participate in, fine, but shutup. With CCP's resources, they have the ability to do more than just focus on core gameplay. It's something people have been waiting a hell of a long time for. Firstly, I think most of us will speak however we'd like... thanks. Telling people to shut up is a pretty revealing look at your attitude. Secondly, your very incorrect assumption that 'CCP's resources' are enough to handle 'core gameplay' stands in very clear contrast to the constant server issues and the other myriad assortment of problems. Adding fluff content when there are still a multitude of issues to solve is... an odd choice. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 22:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 22:27:12 Originally by: SniP UmaN Originally by: Tovarishch Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 21:46:32 Originally by: Avernus Anyone here remember the game Elite? Go anywhere, do anything. <- That is Eve. Eve is a sandbox, if you want to limit yourself in what you want to participate in, fine, but shutup. With CCP's resources, they have the ability to do more than just focus on core gameplay. It's something people have been waiting a hell of a long time for. Firstly, I think most of us will speak however we'd like... thanks. Telling people to shut up is a pretty revealing look at your attitude. Secondly, your very incorrect assumption that 'CCP's resources' are enough to handle 'core gameplay' stands in very clear contrast to the constant server issues and the other myriad assortment of problems. Adding fluff content when there are still a multitude of issues to solve is... an odd choice. An odd choice? What goes to say that when this happens problems won't be solved. What goes to say new problems won't arise from new aspects of the game. If they do add this I'm sure many things would in essence not go in the closest for later use and problem solving. Many things are wrong with the game but honestly, if we get more people playing and they being CCP can handle the load on the servers without failure or limitation to the customer then I believe if people want fluff and it can actually have some relivancy to the games realistic value for the wide scope of players and minds involved give it to us. Hahahahahahaa Let's say your car runs fine... but it idles poorly... and stalls on occasion. You take it into the shop to get a tune up. A couple days later you arrive to pick your car up. They tell you that the one guy working on it will have it done tomorrow... but that they hired a second guy to install a few freebies that they thought they'd offer you as a surprise. It would make perfect sense to ask them why they simply didn't have the new guy help the first guy with the tune-up so your car could have been ready today... when they told you it'd be ready. Why use manpower to add fluff when the same manpower can fix the current problems more quickly? Answer that and I'll understand. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 22:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Zeko Rena Quote: Let's say your car runs fine... but it idles poorly... and stalls on occasion. You take it into the shop to get a tune up. A couple days later you arrive to pick your car up. They tell you that the one guy working on it will have it done tomorrow... but that they hired a second guy to install a few freebies that they thought they'd offer you as a surprise. It would make perfect sense to ask them why they simply didn't have the new guy help the first guy with the tune-up so your car could have been ready today... when they told you it'd be ready. Why use manpower to add fluff when the same manpower can fix the current problems more quickly? Answer that and I'll understand. Because if you dont put manpower on fluff and new content etc, everyone gets bored of the game, the game becomes old with no new exciting ideas to keep up with the constant flow of new MMORPGS being released with new ideas and new fluff and then eventually, EVE dies, because its like an old soggy potato. I agree. However, Kali is already introducing SHLOADS of content. Walking around a station is not 'content'. It's insubstantial crap. It's eye candy. It's meaningless fluff. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 22:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Tovarishch Let's say your car runs fine... but it idles poorly... and stalls on occasion. You take it into the shop to get a tune up. A couple days later you arrive to pick your car up. They tell you that the one guy working on it will have it done tomorrow... but that they hired a second guy to install a few freebies that they thought they'd offer you as a surprise. It would make perfect sense to ask them why they simply didn't have the new guy help the first guy with the tune-up so your car could have been ready today... when they told you it'd be ready. Why use manpower to add fluff when the same manpower can fix the current problems more quickly? Answer that and I'll understand. Because there's a limit to how many people will fit under the hood at the same time, so you have no guarantee whatsoever that sticking everyone available in there will speed ANYTHING up. There is absolutely no reason to believe that CCP has so many bug-fixing coders that they are bumping heads. You are making a huge, and very flawed, assumption there. Hiring more coders to address a single problem on a per problem basis... or even just troublshooters... is not a difficult decision. Thus my confusion as to why CCP would throw money at something as completely insubstantial as walking in a station. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:03:00 - [7] Originally by: Lunadi Edited by: Lunadi on 11/11/2006 23:00:09 Originally by: Tovarishch Thus my confusion as to why CCP would throw money at something as completely insubstantial as walking in a station. Something that is insubstantial to you may not be insubstantial from a marketing point of view. If you don't get bigger (new playerbase) the you are doomed to disapear (in 2, 5, 10 years maybe), so they do have to think of new selling points for eve - attractive for the new players, not only for hardcore eve fans. Why do we want a bigger playerbase if we already have login queues, jumpgate queues, and lag relating to large scale combat? All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Avernus Originally by: Tovarishch Originally by: Lunadi Edited by: Lunadi on 11/11/2006 23:00:09 Originally by: Tovarishch Thus my confusion as to why CCP would throw money at something as completely insubstantial as walking in a station. Something that is insubstantial to you may not be insubstantial from a marketing point of view. If you don't get bigger (new playerbase) the you are doomed to disapear (in 2, 5, 10 years maybe), so they do have to think of new selling points for eve - attractive for the new players, not only for hardcore eve fans. Why do we want a bigger playerbase if we already have login queues, jumpgate queues, and lag relating to large scale combat? That's the ticking bomb in the background tbh. More players equals more available resources for CCP to work with. More players also means higher server loads that have to be counteracted. Technology gets better with time, and new solutions to current problems are brought into being, but the balance is dependant upon the speed with which the Eve playerbase grows. If it grows to fast, then I hate to think of the consequences for all of us. At some point, were that to happen, one of the only solutions available would maybe having to create an additional server... and say goodbye to the single shard experience. Precisely. That is why I think that the 'let's attract lots of new players' argument is a very poor argument indeed. I agree to some degree that the concept of 'content' is subjective. But I do believe that there is some baseline where content has to be something more than eye candy. It has to bring something meaningful to the game. Saying that new grpahics is analogous to content would be completely and utterly incorrect. In my opinion... eye candy and 'walking around a station' is not content... certainly not worth throwing money and manpower at when there are problems to solve. We'll simply have to agree to disagree it seems. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Lunadi Originally by: Tovarishch Why do we want a bigger playerbase if we already have login queues, jumpgate queues, and lag relating to large scale combat? Well.. 'we' may not want it but... My assumption is that each company is created to make money - and that is the goal (not to make someone 'happy'). So the bigger player base the better. regarding the problems you mentioned: 1. Imho they aren't currently that serious - at least not for the majority (it's hard to discuss that issues as we do not know the numbers, but we would have tons of post on this forums if it would be something really disturbing for everyone). 2. I think they are all solvable in short/medium time (probably Kali code changes are a step in this direction - increasing scalability of eve) 3. If they werent solvable (i.ex 'server' would reached a maximum capacity, which I doubt) you can always put another 'server' for new players - so bigger playerbase is not a problem. As I said above... we'll have to agree to disagree. However, I think your take on how serious problems are and how acceptable a second server would be are very, very inaccurate. You might be OK with the current state of the server... but many are not. And as for multiple servers in case the problems get worse... that would be the end of one of EVE's greatest selling points. So you'd be willing to say Goodbye to that for more players on a buggy server... but at least they can walk in stations now? All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Tovarishch Hiring more coders to address a single problem on a per problem basis... or even just troublshooters... is not a difficult decision. Thus my confusion as to why CCP would throw money at something as completely insubstantial as walking in a station. you need to read a book call 'mythical man hour' (or something like that). you speak of flawed assumption, yet you live with misconception that with 600 of work, you can just hire 600 people to work on same problem and it will take 1 hour. seriously - weirda had post on 1st or 2nd page... that this community is embarassing. not all of community, but enough. CCP have stated with planetary flight that it would be implimented IF and when it make sense in context (and spirit) of EVE. the same would hold true for this... you think they just WANT to create work for themself? Maybe try reading some of chronicle and short story and realize that there is large element of this universe that take place outside of pod, and if they do it... even optional... and it add kind of immersion and depth that they want to see in other aspect of game then it is worth every penny. there is plenty of content in EVE that weirda don't explore (mining/capital ship/etc), that doesn't mean that it doesn't make EVE a richer and better universe. if you love EVE, you should trust the vision of the creators - because they love it like a child. While I appreciate your opinion, and have admitted that I am functioning on a couple assumptions (you would know this if you read the entire thread), I still do not believe that walking around in stations is any more substantial in content than prettier graphics. It's not. However, the flipside of your saying that I am functioning on the assumption that CCP still has room for coders to work on issues... is your assumption that they already 'maxxed' out on people working on server issues and other assorted bugs. We are both assuming. Who is right or wrong? /shrug Regardless, I don't see how making this addition is in any way worth the time or effort when other more 'substantial' content could be created by those hired to create said content. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 23:37:41 Originally by: Risien Drogonne Originally by: Tovarishch There is absolutely no reason to believe that CCP has so many bug-fixing coders that they are bumping heads. You are making a huge, and very flawed, assumption there. Hiring more coders to address a single problem on a per problem basis... or even just troublshooters... is not a difficult decision. Thus my confusion as to why CCP would throw money at something as completely insubstantial as walking in a station. Perhaps you somehow missed the fact that CCP hired over 100 people in the last year? Perhaps you missed the fact that since that mass hiring the server and nodes still crash... and there are login queues and jumpgate queues. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Tovarishch on 11/11/2006 23:58:03 Originally by: Weirda Originally by: Tovarishch However, the flipside of your saying that I am functioning on the assumption that CCP still has room for coders to work on issues... is your assumption that they already 'maxxed' out on people working on server issues and other assorted bugs. We are both assuming. Who is right or wrong? /shrug the big 'o' have stated in many recent blog that they are doing 'everything they can'. you either think they lying or not. personally, Weirda believe that they are better judge then either of us, so it is not assumption. seriously though - War Bear (one of you corp/alliance mate) have even stated (believe he is there) that people need to get a grip (in this thread). seleene is there too... maybe you should chat with them about it. if they think people are flying off handle given information that was given out (and they are there) why do people just need to assume that EVE know nothing about the game that they are creating? Weirda hate it when people pull 'am a professional' card in these thread... but anyone who have worked in the industry know that you can't just hire a billion coders and make a problem go away. it have tendency to make problem worse and absolutely kill productivity of everyone else already working on it. Weirda, I always respect and enjoy your posts... but I want to make something clear. Firstly, I am no more pulling a 'professional' than you are. I am stating my concerns... and I am free to do so. I am not over-reacting, I have acknowledged that I am functioning on a couple of assumptions... and I have a right to disagree with people... even if they are in my corp/alliance. I have been gaming for well over two and a half decades... and my concern is paraphrased quite nicely in a post just above this one. It's a comment regarding 'bloat'. I have seen it ruin game after game after game... and I love EVE... and do not want to see it happen. I apologize if my voicing my concern bothers you... or if you think that I am over-reacting or acting as if I am a know-it-all. I apologize if that is my tone. It's not my intention. My intention is to share my concerns and voice my opinion. As has been said already... this may simply be a rumor. Thank God if it is... nothing would please me more. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.12 20:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Ekscalybur This would attract more players, and different types of players. How are either of those things bad? Why do you want more players when the server already suffers from player/fleet loads that create crashes and lag? Not to mention we already have login and jumpgate queues. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.

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