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Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 19:33:00 - [1] I was planning on perhaps asking this during the panel discussion at the fanfest, but the line got cut after a while so no chanse there. Well anyway on to the topic. As EVE has progressed the graphics has always gotten priority, and for good reasons I guess, people want nice things to look at. New concept art, new ships, new ship modeles as we saw in one of the presentations on the fanfest and an update in the graphics of the game alltogether. However something I don't really have heard mentioned (I might have not been listening at the time it was mentioned if it in fact was) is how the dev's consider the sound effects in this game. I've played for around 3 years, a bit on and off. And I've never really heard sound really change in this game. It's still the same old music, still the same old sound effects, and still the same warp sound that makes my house shake if I turn on the speekers. The lasers and guns have really generic and boring sounds, the megapulse laser sounds like a childs toy, and the music gets old cause there is no real theme to the music. My suggestion(s) would be this. To really take a look at the sound engine, hire in some external people perhaps, make the sound immersive. I can't really think of any other game were I actually turn of sound during gameplay. Sound is usually a really big factor in how you percieve a game. You wouldn't play a single player game without sound really, cause it adds so much to the experience. You wouldn't watch a movie without sound. And in the same way it's always been in the back of my head that one thing that I really miss in EVE is a nice soundtrack and nice sound effects that really adds immersion to the game. So my ideas them, I always start de-railing my own posts (this is actually my first post on general discussion I think over the past 3 years, cause I don't make a post unless it's worth posting :P) - Add soundtracks to regions of space. Basicly make some nice soundtracks for the different regions in eve. Make a unique soundtrack for Amarr space, one for caldari etc. So when you jump trough the amarr border, and enter Amarr space you get an unique soundtrack, and not just the same jukebox over and over wherever you are. Maybe make some soundtracks that change according to the situation you are in. Depeneding if you're in 0.0 trying to survive, in Jita mining, or in a station just hanging out. Make people have a connection to the music they have on their ear, so instead of looking at the autopilot they can feel "cool I just entered amarr space" or "ooo this is scary music, I'm in 0.0 now!" -Update the sound effects on weapons etc Make some really immersive sound effects. Like when you're firing this massive 1400mm artillery you would want the feel that your ship is literally shaking from the big blast, some might give me the usual argument that "well there is no sound in space stupid", however your ship houses a crew right, the turret is part of your ship, sound is vibrations, so you would at least hear your own turrets shoot and shake the ship cause the sound vibrations would translate from the turret, to your hull and to the air molecules and then into your ear. Instead of having megapulses go "peew" make us hear the really big capacitors charge and fire a laser powerfull enough to burn trough meters of armor, make us hear a big blast wave from a torpedo impact and shake your ship half apart, make the sounds more diverse. Don't have like "fire megapulse laser" = "play megapulselaser.wav", make it a bit desimilar, make it real, make it diverse, have different sounds, have really immersive sounds! Well I think I've done a full circle now, and instead of repeating my points I'm gonna end my (rant?) topic here, and just repeat: Eve is the only game I know of where 90% of the people turn of sound in the game. Make the people of eve rediscover how sound really adds to a game, evolve not just graphics, but sound aswell! - Amarria Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 20:10:00 - [2] yay a reply, thought my post would go down the pages right away :p And yes, I agree with you. The reason so many players turn of sound is cause of the performance hit indeed (can't think of any other games where sound really hampers performance? or maybe I just havn't noticed). And yes indeed, I do recall acceleration gate having a sound triggering thing, forgot about that =) I would want to see more of it though. And not just the lasers, all sounds could need some more "boost" and ship-shaking power added to them =). I want to hear the bolts in my ship shake. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 20:31:00 - [3] nicely put serendipity. They can make eve as mindboggingly (typo?) beatiful as no other game in excistence, but the facts still biols down to that humans percieve situations not only with their eyes, but also with their ears. As you mentioned, the engines on a carrier should be engines the size of a freakin 5 story building or something. They should roar to the extent that if you were standing next to them your brain would turn into mush. While a frigate would be a more agile engine, not designed to move a small moon around, but to make a ship fly tight cornerns and be more aggressive. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 20:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Rana Ash Indeed, some better gun sounds would be fun. The music i could care less about since it's not vital i think.. Well you're entintled to your opinion I guess, however I would like to see music that makes your mind connect to something. I didn't wanna compare eve to wow here (don't cut my head of please :() I did play WOW for a while, and the music there is very nice concerning locations. You could close your eyes and know "I just entered ironforge" etc. This is what I would want in any game, a soundtrack that is diverse enough to make you keep listening to it. Of good enough quality that it's not repetetive. And make your mind make connections between the music and the game, not make the music a seperate universe, but make it intertwine with the game. Well sorry if I'm spamming the topic, but since this topic has become my little brainchild (is that a good expression?) I just have to make replies to everything :) And sorry if something is spelled wrongly, English aint my first language, so something might not carry across the way it was intended =) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 20:55:00 - [5] Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 11/11/2006 20:58:12 Originally by: Jin Jemai I agree that some new sounds would be great, but the problem with revamping the sounds is that 3-4 months after, it'll be the same thing, people will be bored of it and just disable it. It would end up being a lot of work for little to no gain. Think I have to disagree with you there. In the other MMO's I've played I've never actually turned of sound. It's posible to make sound that blends into your mind in a way that you don't recognize it's repetitive (I think). I've played Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Planetside. And a horde of other multiplayer and single player games, and there's not really any games that springs to mind right away as a game where I hated the sound. Given in Star Wars Galaxies they already had an awesome soundtrack from the movies that people could relate to, but even then I never really got tired of the music even though I probably listened to the same song over and over for 1 year. So it's posible, and I'm not sure what really makes eve different from any other game that would make the music and sound effects unfeasable for long term playing, other than the fact that sound has never been a priority in eve, and the first sounds were really bad to begin with (sorry). So maybe there's something I'm missing. What in eve makes everyone accept the fact that they're playing without sound. How many would turn of sound if it was immersive and made by professionals? (And didn't hamper performance ingame). edit: that's excactly what I mean Kisaku yea :) I'm in no way an expert in creating sound or music at all, I have no experience whatsoever, but really getting people to make the music in a way that you can hear that "ah that's got to be amarr music" before even knowing where the music is connected to, that would be a goal for the devs imo :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.11 23:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Rana Ash I turnd the music off after just a few days in the game, because i found it annoying. It disturbd my gaming experience rather than enhance it, but as i said before i fully agree with you on the gun and engine sounds. yea that's the problem. People see the sound and music as something they don't want in the game, when it could be a really big immersion enhancer that is still unused in this game Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.12 00:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Serendipity007 Edited by: Serendipity007 on 11/11/2006 23:48:28 Originally by: Kisaku When entering a system of space owned by a certain empire, the music should take on the aspects of that civilization. I would expect with Ammar to hear something with a choir, or something epic and mystical. Minmatar should be tribal, or maybe an industrial techno. Gallente I see more in the trance genre, but thats just me. I don't know what type of music would fit the Caldari. I know what music would fit the Caldari: John Williams: Imperial March from Star Wars :p Music and Sound Effects are about the most cost effective means of enhancing immersiveness that CCP has yet to do. I'm really surprised they haven't changed any sound effect for Kali. Actually any imperial or patriotic sounding music would do. With lots of Timpani drums. ^_^ Imperial march is so Amarr! :D I remember when I got my first armageddeon back in the days. I would fly around just looking at it and playing imperial march =D I'm such a geek though =) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.12 22:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Tachy There have been changes in the sound. Some sounds have been reduced in quality and thus in size. Some sounds from buildings have been totally removed over the last 2 years. With the current sound engine, nothing will go forward though. It is still the one that has been used since early beta and where the devs promised to do a propper one once the game goes gold. You can still make sounds crash your computer in EVE. Some of the official patches introduced sounds that did that out of the box. Pinning those down was a bit hard because most pilots turned off sound entirely early on. Kali will cure its shortcomings ! Believe! Well from my perspective it seems like the dev crew is largely composed of graphic artists, and the fact that no sound has been improved over 3 years would signify they don't have a single sound engineer in their crew. The solution(?) I guess would be to hire external crews to just totally revamp this engine. I havn't seen any documentation of this happening in Kali, would be nice if I'm proven wrong there though. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.13 00:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Maggot I asked Oveur this question later on that night. He said (and please correct me if this is wrong due to beer consuption) that they have now recruited additional resources to split the jobs of composing and technical implementation. So hopefully one day we can all enjoy EVE with sound. ah thank you! you did what I could not :) If this is true I'm extatic. Just hope by all means that the guys hired make a good job of it, make some kickass sounds and not some "hey we have the same sounds as before, but we made them better performance wise! :D" wich would suck. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:30:00 - [10] I'm gonna shamelessly bump my own topic. I want a dev reply! :) Oveour get in here! Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.14 17:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 This should be a high priority imho. CCP stated the reason fro the graphics update inpart was immersion, well imho sound is extremely important part of the immersion, which is why i never play MP3's underneath my games. I like the moody music and the ingame sound fx. Eve defnitely needs a serious sound update, anyone who has played with a decent sound system in eve understands why i am sure :P Yea, Sound can actually be a more contributing imersion factor than graphics at some points imo. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:50:00 - [12] Shameless bump for the day :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:33:00 - [13] Originally by: hired goon It's too bad you didn't get your chance to ask this to the council at the fest, i'd certainly have liked to see it addressed. Yea I'm beating myself up about that :( Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.19 00:09:00 - [14] I'm gonna keep bumping this every day until I see a gold bar on the side here :/ Is it so hard to just give a little reply devs? Less important topics have gotten attention, but a constructive one is overlooked? Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.19 15:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Ecnav Has anyone ever heard the sound of a 425mm Railgun firing? It sounds like someone closed their trashcan too hard what about the megapulse sound :p Sounds like someone killed a bee or something Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.20 12:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 20/11/2006 12:58:14 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Make everything happening outside of your ship quiet. Sound shouldn't travel in space. :P As for music, winamp ftw. You get tired of repetetive soundtracks anyway. Waste of resources. As long as you made a soundtrack that changed according to your environment and situation I don't see a problem in making some really good ones. Try to think of a game where you actually turned of music, I know I can't think of a title on the top of my head. All other mmo's I've played, I played with music.. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 20/11/2006 12:58:14 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Make everything happening outside of your ship quiet. Sound shouldn't travel in space. :P As for music, winamp ftw. You get tired of repetetive soundtracks anyway. Waste of resources. As long as you made a soundtrack that changed according to your environment and situation I don't see a problem in making some really good ones. Try to think of a game where you actually turned of music, I know I can't think of a title on the top of my head. All other mmo's I've played, I played with music.. That's because all the other mmo's were crap, and you quit playing them before getting tired of the music. ;) A played them for a year each, should be enough time to get tired of them if they sucked :D Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Paladineguru wow you know the op is right after getting into pretty much most of the time solid pvp after day three , i dont think ive had my sound on in eve for almost 3 years O.o I think I actually had sound on for a full month(!) before turning it of ;p Got a bit repetitive sitting in a station and listening to the same stuff over and over Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Rana Ash Listen to the sounds here This is what EVE sounds should be like Wow that game looked pretty awesome, good sounds to indeed. Love the sound of that constant beam :) Homeworld also had some good sound, or decent freespace. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.23 22:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Avernus The sound effects need a big makeover. I know the Hybrids didn't get any love in the OP's post... but my 250mm's sound more powerful than my 425mm's. I actually really like the sound of the 250's; the 425's sound like a fart in the wind for the level of bang they dish out though. :( Hehe sorry :) I'm an amarr freak so lasers was all the sound I heard extensivly before shutting it of =) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.24 22:03:00 - [21] Originally by: schurem 'thats the bullseye for kali' ... ummm yes, to us it is, but is it being worked on? on the agenda? on the drawingboard? what's the story? how many people does it need to summon a gold bar? Maybe we should make a new topic with a more whiny message title or something :/ Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.26 18:30:00 - [22] Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 26/11/2006 18:30:58 Originally by: Tutaku Edited by: Tutaku on 26/11/2006 12:20:16 I'll add a /signed to this. Good audio design is a key part of the overall experience. It's what takes the game from "That was fun" to "That was ******* awesome!" Play something like Gears of War with the sound off. It's still fun, it still looks good, but it doesn't make you want to take cover behind the coffee table. This is the only MMO (or epic-scaled single player game) I've played where turning the sound off doesn't make me miss it, and that's a terrible shame. As that video someone posted earlier shows, Eve is precisely the kind of game where the audio is an opportunity to knock our socks off. So get that audio FX house on the phone already, will ya'? This is however a testament to how well designed eve is, when people will play the game without sound and still have a good gaming experience year after year. But just image what people would feel when playing the game if the sound lived up to the rest of it. Imo it would make a gaming experience like no other. EVE has the best potential of any game I can think of tbh, it just needs a bit more effort in more than just graphics to make it a well rounded experience instead of putting 99% of effort into graphics and basicly nothing at all into sound. Sound can be improved in the same aspect as graphics, just don't, please don't forget about the sound devs. Wont anyone think of the children?! (sorry it just kind of fitted in there) edit typos Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.26 23:04:00 - [23] by audio queues do you mean having 40 cruise missile explosion sounds being added to a queue and triggering after each other even though they all hit at the same time? Not sure if it's posible in a sound engine, but it would be better if they could make sounds merge instead of having trigger sounds like "cruise missile hit = cruisemissile.wav", cause that's how it feels like now. Some of the newer fps games must have some kind of fluent sound engines where the sound engine itself has a sort of AI that can merge sounds so a computer doesn't have to play missile.wav 50 times in 1 second and instead merge the sound into something different? As I've said before I have no real clue on sound and how it really works, but if it's doable, it should be done. Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:38:00 - [24] Originally by: schurem Originally by: Amarria Lightwielder by audio queues do you mean having 40 cruise missile explosion sounds being added to a queue and triggering after each other even though they all hit at the same time? no, by audio queues i mean tactical information being brought to you by sound, such as the ship queueing you in on the fact that you are being hit, or that your shields are down etc etc. This could either be the ships voicce telling you about it, or just an assortment of beeps and whoops. either way, we need this imho. About the fifty cruise missiles impacting at once, most games only dedicate a certain number of audio channels to such things, and the rest of the booms just dont get played. which is fine in my book. it'll still sound like you're getting bombed to the stone age Yea, kind of like in a combat flight sim when your plane get hit by a missile and the female voice keep spouting one warning after another "radar failure, acs failure, acm failure" etc =) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.27 15:55:00 - [25] ah ok =) well I guess both options work? :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:55:00 - [26] Edited by: Amarria Lightwielder on 29/11/2006 15:55:45 Originally by: Oveur We actually have a sound & music overhaul project, we're just looking for the right programmer to work with master RealX. Know anyone? A reply by the allmighty yay! :) Thanks for reassuring us. Any timeframe? :p edit: and btw hope you have at least browsed trough our wishes and suggestions in this topic Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:06:00 - [27] gold bare sure adds vitality to a topic :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Henry Loenwind I usually don't sign, but on this one I make an exception: /SIGNED And now something completly different: Thinking on a technical level, I propose to implement a sound system that is capable of real-time sound modification. Meaning, the hull of your ship should be an 'effect' that modifies the sound of your guns and engines. So that same 75mm railgun would sound different when mounted on a tiny frig (high frequencies, very direct) or on some big battleship (almost no high freqs, muffled sound). When the hull takes damge, the hull effect should be modified, e.g. by added strategic band-passes (sounds 'pinch' through, unnerving) and echos/hall on the low freqs (hull is vibrating). Hits on your ship should be modified according to hitting shield, armor or hull (shield=soft, armor=semi-hard, hull=metallic hard), and these modifications should change with the remaining HPs. BTW: There are not that many sentences the on-board computer speaks. Why not record them with a couple of voice actors, so each race could have its own computer voice? And please add "jumping now" for the manual jump gate activation. It disorients me every time I use a gate manually as I'm that used to the autopilot's announcement. wow those are awesome ideas, if this would ever be implemented in eve I would cry of joy :) Teh NAGA ShopÖ
Amarria Lightwielder N.A.G.A Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:17:00 - [29] Originally by: FeralShadow This is a good topic, took me forever to find it under the buried masses. so ... bump very buried =) Teh NAGA ShopÖ

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