This is such a new and never before seen Idea, I endorse it completely! And these ships totally wouldn't be OP and used in ways the creators didn't anticipate.

Happy Sarcasm day yall!

It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood.

it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.

Wrong forum.

Just battle fit your hulk or venture like everyone else.

Inspired by ancient myths of those days when the Navies of governments sailed the high seas rather than the desolate stretches of space, an idea which was long lost is being evaluated for Space Faring usage by the various factions of Eve.

Increasingly irritated by the grievous losses and damages inflicted upon their supply chains by roving gangs of pirates and marauders, ship builders are beginning to design what would have been known as Q-ships in the distant past. These vessels bear outward resemblance to various industrial ships, most commonly freighters. However, this is merely a clever facade constructed around the design of a purely combat oriented ship. Highly advanced IFF's mimic those of their industrial cousins to avoid tipping off eager pirates who rely solely on their overviews, and cargo holds can be configured to appear to be holding valuable goods. These vessels are at home as advanced parties who travel ahead of convoys in order to preemptively spring any traps which may be set around gates, or mixed in with the convoy itself as wolves in sheep's clothing.

Their bulkheads conceal armaments rivaling those of battlecruisers and even battleships, and what they lose in maneuverability, they make up for in their ability to withstand blistering incoming fire, with the false exteriors and cargo bays of the ship providing buffer zones to critical systems. This comes at the cost of being unable to easily flee an engagement which proves to be too much of a challenge for their abilities, and the crews on board know it. Their sole purpose and duty is to either defeat those who would harm them or their merchant brethren, or at least to fight to the bitter end and perhaps allow their convoy to escape.

It is predicted that these ships, if adopted, will quickly become a mainstay for any merchants or governments wishing to move high value cargo through dangerous reaches of the void.

TL:DR give DST 4 turret slots and 5% bonus to racial weapons

Or.... We could take a page from the days of the spanish main. And stop insisting industrials must be flimsy targets fit only for ganking and cowering in fear.
Instead we decide what size vessel they are equivalent to and give them base EHP and fittings to match up to and including unbonused turrets/launchers in the same number as standard for vessels of that size, and then sit back and watch all the emergent game play surrounding them emerge.
Caveat on this to make it practical is Cargo extenders would need to get stacking penalties added so that 50% of the cargo isn't in the 6th extender you fit.

It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood.

it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.

It's possible that they would be used in new and inventive ways, but it should be noted that these actually did exist as traps for submarines who preyed on the supply chains for armies. They did this by appearing as harmless vessels and luring the enemy into tipping their hand before raising the colors and revealing weapons. They were often also loaded with cargos that made them even more difficult to sink such as cork or balsa wood.

it would be interesting to see what people would do with space faring equivalents.

Could anyone explain his idea to me without all the lore talk?

they want a better battle badger.

A battle badger with apparently a BS level tank.

I am not buying this "indies don't have tank" line. My t2 indies can tank 2000DPS for a time. Or alternatively have large EHP buffers.

Add more tank and it changes only one thing. How many more ships do I need to use to gank it. Shooting back won't help either. Its a gank. They gank (we have) battleships.....

TL;DR Bait Ship?

Bait ship. Which show in overview as something they aren't, and the ability to bait without risking the modules used for bait. Oh, and BS level DPS and tank.

I could see this ship class having the same skin as the current industrial ships but having 5 high slots, 4 medium slots, and 3 low slots, coupled with the CPU and Powergrid to accommodate a full arsenal of weaponry and defenses, but with reasonable cargo hold that isen't too extensive as to obsolete the original industrials purpose. Designed for providing its own escort for transporting cargo, this would be nice for low and null sec. It would even be useful for traps against everything from ganking to piracy.

Interesting concept. But they will never sign off on it because of all the butthurt alts of every goon and ganker troll that this forum is overflowing with pushing their mediocre agenda with sub-intellectual banter meant to confuse, dismay, and anger.

Keep pushing. You might get lucky.

Having Battlecruiser DPS and battleship level or higher tank seems more realistic to how these were designed. Medium turret slots would allow them to fight back fairly effectively against anything below a battleship, while the tank might allow them to survive battles for long enough to receive reinforcements or escape.

[quote=Deep Nine]
So, no to having both while carrying cargo. If you want BS level tank, you already can do so with a DST, some of which can briefly exceed supercapital EHP. The big issues are having significant DPS, and any sort of "IFF" or other auto-magic trickery which lets you bait perfectly without effort.

Its not exactly magic. There was a war game not too long ago where a british ship gained the upper hand against the American forces by pretending to be a Pakistani cruise liner and responding to hails in Urdu before opening fire with a surprise attack when they were in missile range. Do you really think that people wouldnt come up with ways to fool the enemy's friend or foe classification or ship identification systems just because this is in space?

I actually don't even fly industrial most of the time.

And you have to admit that those fits arent nearly as effective as dedicated battleships or battlecruisers.

...

The entire point of this is one that can hold its own in a fight and even come out on top if the odds aren't too stacked against it

Ignoring all this though...

if industrial ships had the same combat ability as normal, dedicated combat ships... why would you fly anything but an industrial ship?

I personally would LOVE the extra cargo room for storing and using extra cap boosters and loot.

They wouldn't have the same combat ability. Difficulty with maneuvering would limit them to the role of responding to attack rather than initiating engagement, and cargo room would be sacrificed for combat ability and the ability to pretend to be a harmless freighter when its actually anything but. This ship might find other uses when inventive players started experimenting with it, but it would be designed for a niche role of inviting attack by gankers in order to turn the tables when they find that they may have bitten off more than they can chew.

What about a holographic emitter that takes up a high slot and disguises with a random corresponding industrial ship size or up. For example a hurricane disguised as a mammoth or an armageddon masked as a providence. The holo emitter would deactivate upon engaging A target. It Could have Similar fitting and draw backs to cloaking devices.

What about a holographic emitter that takes up a high slot and disguises with a random corresponding industrial ship size or up. For example a hurricane disguised as a mammoth or an armageddon masked as a providence. The holo emitter would deactivate upon engaging A target. It Could have Similar fitting and draw backs to cloaking devices.

Skin, sure. Same name on overview? Never. False cargo scan? Never. I'm not against Q-ships entirely, just against a hilariously exploitable version which beats most cruisers in combat capability while looking like a defenseless t1 hauler.
A second line of DSTs with some teeth would be great fun, and amusing as all get out to watch people try to gank or catch in low/null.

Yes, same name on overview, definitely, but done via the holographic imager suggested. False cargo scan, no, of course not. It isen' hilariously exploitable, but rather, covert and sensible. No one said it should be able to beat a cruiser, but that is what beta-testing is for. I agree, it would be great fun along with being extremely useful.

Okay, and now how do we balance the a module like this?

I'm really not seeing the huge potential for exploitation that you guys are either. False cargo scans might be pushing things too far, but really this entire concept would just revolve around giving gankers a surprise and a difficult fight more often, potentially stopping some suicide ganks outright or reducing trade losses in the majority of circumstances. The only people who should really be mad about this are those gankers who realize that they have it absurdly easy now and don't want the system to change.

Then trust us. What you have described is already a very powerful thing in the shape of a battlebadger and a battle badger is much toned down from what you are asking for.

So what you're saying is that you want a bastion-mode Marauder with an industrial skin so you can die to slightly more ganking dessies once you realize you can't escape?

Sooooo... why are we taking you seriously then?

Q-Ships historically were NEVER as effective as dedicated combat ships. In fact... the only reason they scored the limited victories they did was due almost entirely due to surprise... NOT combat ability.
And unlike real life, in EVE it is most cost effective to just blow up a ship rather than trying to capture it. Because players are spiteful like that (both ways).
Ignoring all this though...

if industrial ships had the same combat ability as normal, dedicated combat ships... why would you fly anything but an industrial ship?

I personally would LOVE the extra cargo room for storing and using extra cap boosters and loot.

As you've already heard from others by now, Q-ships are a common suggestion that is generally not met with much approval. Most supporters are pretty new to the game. There are a lot of flaws in the concept that become more apparent as you learn to understand the intricate social mechanics of combat in EVE Online. In short, it's too easy a cover and unfairly changes other players' overview to suit the needs of a specific group. It's an overpowered ship design.


I am in favor of combat industrials--they could sacrifice some carrying capacity in order to have combat capabilities not too far short of cruisers. I see two good reasons to fly a ship like that:
1.) when flying through dangerous space and you want to defend yourself
2.) have a few of these in a larger fleet to carry supplies such as ammo--they can engage in combat also

If these have cruiser tank but less than cruiser offense, it'll lessen the chances opposing fleet members will try to shoot these, which will assist in their ability to protect the cargo that is useful to sustained fleet operation.

Why bother putting weapons on a freighter when you can just use a scout instead?
Because people want easy mode, right

Because this isn't a freighter. It's a specialized combat ship that pretends to be a freighter. I'd say it's the gankers who want easy mode.

Because this isn't a freighter. It's a specialized combat ship that pretends to be a freighter. I'd say it's the gankers who want easy mode.

I do think that combat industrial ships should be more of a thing. They got more viable in the industrial tiericide, but they aren't quite there yet.

Absolutely does not require new ships though, just tweaks to existing ones.

>>Insult the forum
>>Say its flawed, don't explain why.
>>Keep it vague.
>>Use terms I don't understand.
>>Intricate social mechanics of combat.
>>EVES unfair, dries tears, ganks someone.
>>Overpowered industrial transport.
>>Totally in favor or combat industrials.
>>Steal someone elses idea.
>>Repeat someone elses uses.
>>Fleet members wont shoot industrials.

How did you figure out how to undock?