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Targeted Cyno Suppression Module

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Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1080	Posted - 2015.05.19 16:52:32 - [1] - Quote Highslot utility mod, prevents a cyno from being lit and/or deactivates an active cyno. Perhaps just "jams" the cyno so that it still has to cycle the full duration but becomes unusable. Would allow some counterplay to known hotdroppers, forcing them to be more careful in bait ships and hopefully encouraging less one-sided conflict where people are more willing to fight. Probably wouldn't have much effect on large scale capital ops where multiple backup cynos are already used. Clearly there would be many repercussions - some good, some bad. Some depend on your point of view. Discuss. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 391	Posted - 2015.05.19 17:02:19 - [2] - Quote You realise the whole i undock i get dropped on thing died with the jump changes?
Christopher Mabata Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 321	Posted - 2015.05.19 17:14:30 - [3] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Highslot utility mod, prevents a cyno from being lit and/or deactivates an active cyno. Perhaps just "jams" the cyno so that it still has to cycle the full duration but becomes unusable. Would allow some counterplay to known hotdroppers, forcing them to be more careful in bait ships and hopefully encouraging less one-sided conflict where people are more willing to fight. Probably wouldn't have much effect on large scale capital ops where multiple backup cynos are already used. Clearly there would be many repercussions - some good, some bad. Some depend on your point of view. Discuss. We already got jump changes and the mobile anti cyno structure, people just never seem to think its enough, you have plenty of tools to avoid getting dropped on use those rather than asking CCP for more ways to protect your assets than are even needed #USA #PODSQUAD #Waitthisisn'ttwitterthenewlookconfusedme
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1080	Posted - 2015.05.19 17:44:36 - [4] - Quote FireFrenzy wrote: You realise the whole i undock i get dropped on thing died with the jump changes? I disagree. Blackops in particular are still very popular in many regions of lowsec. I have at least 10 alts on my watchlist whose sole purpose is to light cynos and I see them daily. Christopher Mabata wrote: We already got jump changes and the mobile anti cyno structure, people just never seem to think its enough In my opinion, cyno inhibitor modules are useful for protecting your own capitals during structure bashes and the like, but the online time is prohibitive for other uses. If you see an Arazu in system that you know is a hot drop alt, you can't expect to anchor the thing and get it to engage you. Essentially, the cyno is guaranteed to work because they pick the engagement. If it wasn't guaranteed though, people would have to find more creative ways to get fights or bring more support to get control over their cyno. I think it would create a more interesting dynamic than the current meta. Perhaps you disagree. Christopher Mabata wrote: you have plenty of tools to avoid getting dropped on use those rather than asking CCP for more ways to protect your assets than are even needed I'm not asking for anything. I just have an idea which I believe fills a different use niche than the cyno inhibitor and I'm curious what other people think. Thank you for your opinion. I'm also not interested in "avoiding" getting dropped or "protecting" my assets. That's easy. Dock up. Use cyno inhibs to protect your fleets and structures. What I'm considering is a way to empower smaller groups to engage against known hot droppers. This would bring more conflict (a good thing!) and be less one-sided, giving some of the cards back to the people actually in system (also a good thing in my opinion). I've been on both sides of this many times. Dropping everything in sight leads to very scarce targets and very bored players. We are our own worst enemy in that regard. We just need some more reasons to pause and think about taking the easy way out before we light up. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
joecuster AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 48	Posted - 2015.05.19 18:09:01 - [5] - Quote lol cyno inhib to pricey for bads
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1220	Posted - 2015.05.19 18:20:02 - [6] - Quote joecuster wrote: lol cyno inhib to pricey for bads Totally stops the blops ships mentioned too, right? PS: it doesn't.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 719	Posted - 2015.05.19 19:52:55 - [7] - Quote afkalt wrote: joecuster wrote: lol cyno inhib to pricey for bads Totally stops the blops ships mentioned too, right? PS: it doesn't. And that is awesome. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 296	Posted - 2015.05.19 20:12:44 - [8] - Quote The mobile inhibitor actually does it's job really well and sets up some interesting tactics while using them. It is sufficient and a really good addition to the game. Covert cynos are another beast entirely. You have so many options to deal with this... A)Jam the tackle ship that is initiating the drop. B)Counter drop. People like big shiny killmails, it shouldnt be too hard to set up a good counter drop. One good welp of their BLOPS fleet and they will probably leave you alone. C)Kite. Given that almost all the 'good' ships in the meta are so fast and so small, dropping them is actually tricky. D)Get a fleet and fight your local pirates. Bored groups are the ones that resort to excessively Cyno based gameplay. It's not that they don't want a fight, it's that they only way they can get one is by baiting. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Alexis Nightwish 195	Posted - 2015.05.19 20:55:26 - [9] - Quote The cyno mechanics are terrible since forever and always. The OP's idea would probably need more fleshing out, but as a concept I like it. If this or something similar were in game, roams in Low and Null would be a lot more fun. I'm totally on board with anything that let's me **** with the "I Win!" button. Especially now that ratting carriers in null are all required to have a depot out and a cyno in hold so if jumped they can summon the whole constellation right on top of them instantaneously. Cyno inhibs are great as a preventative, defensive action in a set place, but are totally worthless for roams. If there's even a chance of winning we'll take the fight, but what's the point of fighting someone who just has 50 dudes 5ly away waiting next to a Titan that's 1cm out of its POS so they can get some of that EZKB Green. Yes, I did just make that term up. Whether you die or escape at that point it doesn't matter because a cyno going up signals the end of the fun. +1 to cyno fuckery CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1081	Posted - 2015.05.19 21:19:48 - [10] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: The mobile inhibitor actually does it's job really well and sets up some interesting tactics while using them. It is sufficient and a really good addition to the game. I agree it was a good addition. Vic Jefferson wrote: Covert cynos are another beast entirely. You have so many options to deal with this... A)Jam the tackle ship that is initiating the drop. B)Counter drop. People like big shiny killmails, it shouldnt be too hard to set up a good counter drop. One good welp of their BLOPS fleet and they will probably leave you alone. C)Kite. Given that almost all the 'good' ships in the meta are so fast and so small, dropping them is actually tricky. D)Get a fleet and fight your local pirates. Bored groups are the ones that resort to excessively Cyno based gameplay. It's not that they don't want a fight, it's that they only way they can get one is by baiting. A and C are valid suggestions. B) I don't want them to leave me alone. I want more conflict, not less. This just leads to a standoff where neither group wants to do anything but drop on easy victims, because no one wants to actually risk their black ops (why would you? they are flimsy). D) I am the local pirate. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2197	Posted - 2015.05.19 21:20:21 - [11] - Quote Current Inhibitors only work if you are a static fleet. If you are a roaming fleet they are vastly to expensive to drop on every single gate and location you land on.
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 296	Posted - 2015.05.19 21:35:41 - [12] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Current Inhibitors only work if you are a static fleet. If you are a roaming fleet they are vastly to expensive to drop on every single gate and location you land on. I'm not sure its that cut and dry. I had a humorous situation unfold where we were defending a poco, and the attacking fleet was scouted with no logi; they intend to drop triage. We scrambled a cyno inhibitor up as fast up as possible, and had it anchored by the time they landed in our bubble. Their scouts did not evidently think it worthy of the FC's attention, or didn't notice it. Suffice to say the fight went rather well for us. They aren't supposed to HARD counter caps, or drops. If you are truly a roaming fleet, just don't let the bait scram you, and you live to fight another day, and they get fatigued for no kills. As cancerous as the current speed/drone/LML meta is, it does a fair bit to dissuade drops. If you don't think you can kill a carrier before his friends show up, bring more bombers. Or hide the cyno inhibs in the anoms before hand. Think creatively. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 196	Posted - 2015.05.19 21:46:09 - [13] - Quote Cynos are more boring than mining. Click a button and wait. At least you can move about while mining.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 965	Posted - 2015.05.20 02:02:52 - [14] - Quote There are already many high slot modules that can shut down an active cyno. They are called turrets and missile launchers. Rumor has it that drones, bombs, and smartbombs are also capable of shutting down a cyno. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 395	Posted - 2015.05.20 07:27:54 - [15] - Quote I meant it like this... I once undocked my carrier to show it to a new bro, (irl buddy of mine no intelligence leaks there) and within 1 minute i had a ******* Pandemic legion ganksquad on my undocked carrier... It was fairly silly... Docked back up and felt like a big boy once the shakes stopped...
Samillian Angry Mustellid The Periphery 797	Posted - 2015.05.20 07:41:17 - [16] - Quote When a cyno goes up either apply DPS or GTFO, one or the other usually works. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Lugh Crow-Slave 1092	Posted - 2015.05.20 11:11:07 - [17] - Quote well for once a great well thought out idea with no holes in it this would change so much no longer would people have to fear constantly being dropped on isn't it great we play in a game with no alts so that this would actually fix a problem and not just force people to sub another acc to be competitive in an area of the game? seriously this mod gets added to the game all i do is make a few more cyno alts and train them with damps. so what changes 1. people make more alts 2. Arazue becomes even more so the primary recon for lighting cov cynos 3. i have a few back up cynos in large fleets to ensure everyone i need to have drop drops what stays the same 1. you are still going to be at just as much risk of being dropped on 2. even if i only bring in one cyno ship i will be able to bridge in most of my fleet as they will know when the cyno is going to be light and you need to react to a ship d-cloaking 3 .people who do not use jump drives complain that they are to strong and want one more nerf Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 967	Posted - 2015.05.20 11:46:49 - [18] - Quote FireFrenzy wrote: I meant it like this... I once undocked my carrier to show it to a new bro, (irl buddy of mine no intelligence leaks there) and within 1 minute i had a ******* Pandemic legion ganksquad on my undocked carrier... It was fairly silly... Docked back up and felt like a big boy once the shakes stopped... You undocked a Carrier without paying attention to local and you think this is a problem with game mechanics? The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Dustpuppy New Eden Ferengi 130	Posted - 2015.05.20 11:52:27 - [19] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Perhaps just "jams" the cyno so that it still has to cycle the full duration but becomes unusable. No neeed for a special item here. Any ship with a gun can do this and if you use a small blaster ship a cyno alt is dead within seconds after landing on it. No idea why cynos cause so much pain to you guys. I normally have a problem to keep the alive for at least 10 seconds after lighting them and typiclally 12 secos after firing it the cyno is bubbled and dead.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1082	Posted - 2015.05.20 13:24:56 - [20] - Quote Dustpuppy wrote: No neeed for a special item here. Any ship with a gun can do this and if you use a small blaster ship a cyno alt is dead within seconds after landing on it. I've seen this argument twice now. You realize no one uses an Ibis to hot drop right? I'm not talking about throw-away cynos on station to move your carrier, I'm talking about brick-tanked hot drop ships. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: 1. you are still going to be at just as much risk of being dropped on 2. even if i only bring in one cyno ship i will be able to bridge in most of my fleet as they will know when the cyno is going to be light and you need to react to a ship d-cloaking 3 .people who do not use jump drives complain that they are to strong and want one more nerf This idea isn't meant to hard counter blops or capital drops. I consider 1) and 2) a good thing. This idea is not supposed to hard counter hot drops, just to provide one more factor to make it more risky. That's why I made it a targeted high slot (utility highs are somewhat rare comparatively), and not area of effect. If you really want to drop you shouldn't be completely prevented by a single module (come to think of it falcons would be quite good at countering them as well). As it is, the only really viable counter to dropping is counter dropping. This leads to all the drop-capable groups sitting in station while their cyno hunts targets, possibly with one tasty ship out ratting as bait. Sure, a well executed counter-drop can be fun, but the vast majority of your time is squandered inside the ship hangar. IMO more options to counter drops, even if they are not foolproof, means more people out in space instead of waiting around in station, whether it's to try and shut down the cyno or help support it. As for 3), I've been on both sides of the situation many times. I find it quite boring and would like to see more ships in space. I think my idea has the potential for that, perhaps with some fleshing out. And happy blops pilots do not need to feel threatened by it. As you pointed out, there are ways to counter this counter. Basically, it's just one more monkey wrench to stir the pot. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Alexis Nightwish 198	Posted - 2015.05.20 17:28:47 - [21] - Quote People keep saying "It's easy, just kill the cyno" Let's do a play-by-play. Cyno ship lights cyno and calls out "Cyno up!" (takes about 1 second) Titan or carrier pilots do the right click menu dance to open portal or jump (takes about 1 second) Titan pilot calls out "Jump jump jump!" (takes about 1 second) Fleet right clicks titan and selects jump (takes about 1 second) Ships travel through the jump tunnel/load the remote grid (takes 2-5 seconds) From the cyno going up, till fleet is landing on top of you, is from 4-9 seconds. Assuming that you know that a ship is packing a cyno, and assuming you're not busy with something else (like combat?), and assuming your fleet is super pro and has a response time of zero, can you lock and destroy the following in under 9 seconds? [Maller, Brick cyno] Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II Warp Disruptor II Warp Disruptor II Faint Warp Disruptor I Cynosural Field Generator I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I 114,000 EHP on overheat. You will need to do somewhere between 13,000 to 28,500 DPS (depending on how long it takes for the enemy fleet to get to you) to stop from being dropped. Given that this ship is less than 25m ISK, there's no reason to not use a second or even a third. So tell me again how easy it is to kill the cyno. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 196	Posted - 2015.05.20 21:07:42 - [22] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: People keep saying "It's easy, just kill the cyno" Let's do a play-by-play. Cyno ship lights cyno and calls out "Cyno up!" (takes about 1 second) Titan or carrier pilots do the right click menu dance to open portal or jump (takes about 1 second) Titan pilot calls out "Jump jump jump!" (takes about 1 second) Fleet right clicks titan and selects jump (takes about 1 second) Ships travel through the jump tunnel/load the remote grid (takes 2-5 seconds) From the cyno going up, till fleet is landing on top of you, is from 4-9 seconds. Assuming that you know that a ship is packing a cyno, and assuming you're not busy with something else (like combat?), and assuming your fleet is super pro and has a response time of zero, can you lock and destroy the following in under 9 seconds? [Maller, Brick cyno] 114,000 EHP on overheat. You will need to do somewhere between 13,000 to 28,500 DPS (depending on how long it takes for the enemy fleet to get to you) to stop from being dropped. Given that this ship is less than 25m ISK, there's no reason to not use a second or even a third. So tell me again how easy it is to kill the cyno. In that case, is a targeted cyno squasher really going to stop the fleet from bridging through? A lot of that time is eaaten up by reacting to the appearance of a new ship (warp in, or decloak), locking the ship, then throwing the suppression on it. And this assumes that you're within suppression range. If not, then add time to burn into range.
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 299	Posted - 2015.05.21 01:34:26 - [23] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: As it is, the only really viable counter to dropping is counter dropping. Alexis Nightwish wrote: [Maller, Brick cyno] Or...you know, not taking obvious bait. Maller is terrible because everyone knows its a cyno. If you get scrammed by something as obvious and slow as a maller, you have bigger issues. You can annoy a cyno maller and blueball his gang by just sending enough kiting ships to tear it apart slowly - it's not going to light unless it has a solid lock on something, and if it does light, you can all just scurry away. Ship scanners and cargo scanners are also your friends, but again, most bait ships can be discerned more readily through judgement alone. Procurer? check to see if it has a mining laser equipped. If no, its a cyno. If you want to make convincing bait, you have to hull tank it so it still goes really fast but has enough buffer to initiate and aggressively tackle something. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1083	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:13:49 - [24] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: Or...you know, not taking obvious bait. Maller is terrible because everyone knows its a cyno. If you get scrammed by something as obvious and slow as a maller, you have bigger issues. You can annoy a cyno maller and blueball his gang by just sending enough kiting ships to tear it apart slowly - it's not going to light unless it has a solid lock on something, and if it does light, you can all just scurry away. Again, I'm not talking about getting jumped by unknown cyno characters in obvious mallers. I'm proposing an idea to deal with *known* cyno alts that roam about *every day* in the same ship using the same tactic. Yes, kiting ships can be used, but the situation is still fairly low risk for the cyno as he can always just drop carriers. And if it's a recon he won't even uncloak without a real target. I'm pretty sure the maller example was just an exaggeration of the point that you can't just alpha the cyno in most situations, and to suggest that you can is just silly. To reiterate, the goal here is not to be *immune* to cynos or make them useless. It is to make cynos *fallible* so that tactics and supporting ships become more important than remembering to bring ozone and stay within jump range. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Vic Jefferson The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple 299	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:46:34 - [25] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: It is to make cynos *fallible* so that tactics and supporting ships become more important than remembering to bring ozone and stay within jump range. They already are. Deny them the drop. Bring lots of yellow jams or just kite the cyno ship. You win? It's hardly an I win button if the maller is jammed/kited and has to panic light, you all warp off, and all the people who were waiting on the bridge have fatigue and no kills for all the waiting you made them do. Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1083	Posted - 2015.05.21 02:49:41 - [26] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: They already are. Deny them the drop. Bring lots of yellow jams or just kite the cyno ship. You win? It's hardly an I win button if the maller is jammed/kited and has to panic light, you all warp off, and all the people who were waiting on the bridge have fatigue and no kills for all the waiting you made them do. This is boring for both sides and the lack of real risk makes it a daily recurring experience. I'm trying to liven things up by forcing both sides to consider alternative tactics. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 971	Posted - 2015.05.21 03:43:23 - [27] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Vic Jefferson wrote: They already are. Deny them the drop. Bring lots of yellow jams or just kite the cyno ship. You win? It's hardly an I win button if the maller is jammed/kited and has to panic light, you all warp off, and all the people who were waiting on the bridge have fatigue and no kills for all the waiting you made them do. This is boring for both sides and the lack of real risk makes it a daily recurring experience. I'm trying to liven things up by forcing both sides to consider alternative tactics. This is Eve. If you cannot win, than you deny them any satisfaction from the experience. You are trying to have a personal cyno jammer on your ship. If you want that, stay in high sec or go to WH space. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1083	Posted - 2015.05.21 04:01:51 - [28] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Having a personal cyno jammer on a ship will not make the game any more exciting for the BLOPS gang that is hunting you. It just gives you another way to get away when you fritter away all the other tools at your disposal (like paying attention). This still isn't a "whoops, pants caught around my ankles, better jam the cyno" suggestion. People won't fit them to everything on the off chance they get dropped. Highslots are too valuable. The situation I have in mind is where you know EXACTLY what that cyno alt is doing in your system and why, what they are flying, and what they intend to do with it. This will not benefit people who aren't "paying attention". It will just provide one more way to provoke a fight with them (current suggestions are kite the cyno until you all get bored, dock up until you get bored and log off, or counter drop until the whole region gets bored and unsubs). And the fact that it exists as an option will force the droppers as well as any possible counter droppers to factor it into their risk assessment, either bringing more ships to support their cyno or running the risk of having to abandon it. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Tabyll Altol Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:15:56 - [29] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Highslot utility mod, prevents a cyno from being lit and/or deactivates an active cyno. Perhaps just "jams" the cyno so that it still has to cycle the full duration but becomes unusable. Would allow some counterplay to known hotdroppers, forcing them to be more careful in bait ships and hopefully encouraging less one-sided conflict where people are more willing to fight. Probably wouldn't have much effect on large scale capital ops where multiple backup cynos are already used. Clearly there would be many repercussions - some good, some bad. Some depend on your point of view. Discuss! Already implemented it-¦s called volley damage. Just adjust your damage to volley the ships ;) -1
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1229	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:23:08 - [30] - Quote I've never in all my time in eve had a bait ship pop before we got through. Not ever. That solution is like suggesting jumping before you hit the ground will save you from a falling elevator.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1083	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:37:30 - [31] - Quote Tabyll Altol wrote: Already implemented it-¦s called volley damage. Just adjust your damage to volley the ships ;) -1 No need for ECM...just volley them! No need for warp disruption...just volley them! No need to rep my friends...just volley the other guys! Just because there are multiple solutions does not make mine any less valid. Not everyone brings 204 of their closest friends to every engagement. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 972	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:38:33 - [32] - Quote afkalt wrote: I've never in all my time in eve had a bait ship pop before we got through. Not ever. That solution is like suggesting jumping before you hit the ground will save you from a falling elevator. I've seen it happen plenty of times - not often to bait ships, but to BLOPs hunters. Granted, I do not know what caused the problem on the hostile end, but several of my friends have been dropped and killed the cyno ship before the hostile gang made it through. I have also seen it happen when going after a bunch of Skiffs and the horde of assisted drones obliterates the cyno very quickly. Usually this happens to throwaway alts in stealth bombers. If you use a sturdier ship, you don't have the same issues, but you are also not as agile. Anyone who engages an probable bait ship without expecting an escalation needs to rethink their approach to Eve. I do understand the frustration inherent behind the OP's suggestion. The hardest part of Eve PvP is finding a way to make someone commit to a fight so you can kill them. Whether that comes with hiding numbers in a gate, on the other side of a jump bridge, in a nearby WH, cloaked, docked, or wherever, disguising your true strength is usually the first requirement for success in Eve PVP. This module would not make people more likely to get into fights, so it does not solve that problem. The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1229	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:45:55 - [33] - Quote No module can stop people caring about losses more than good fights, unfortunately. Too many people are too precious about "not losing" at all costs and damn the actual fight itself. The crippling irony here is they'll claim everyone but themselves are risk averse. It's a sad state of affairs indeed.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1083	Posted - 2015.05.21 10:27:07 - [34] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: I do understand the frustration inherent behind the OP's suggestion. The hardest part of Eve PvP is finding a way to make someone commit to a fight so you can kill them. Whether that comes with hiding numbers in a gate, on the other side of a jump bridge, in a nearby WH, cloaked, docked, or wherever, disguising your true strength is usually the first requirement for success in Eve PVP. This module would not make people more likely to get into fights, so it does not solve that problem. Thank you for being constructive. I agree with most of your post. As for the last part...you may be right. Perhaps the most risk adverse pilots will simply stop fighting at all. However, I think most would find another solution, whether it is extra support for their cyno or just ditching it altogether and roaming. Hopefully this means more ships out in space flying around and having the potential to make "mistakes" and get content and less sitting docked up in station. And if people are forced to be more careful about dropping cynos willy-nily then there will be more room for smaller roaming gangs that would otherwise find it difficult to operate. Or it might just lead to mass unsubbing as we all succumb to our true risk-adverse nature. Who knows. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
per Terpene Conglomerate 56	Posted - 2015.05.21 10:59:36 - [35] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: . Perhaps just "jams" the cyno i like this part, would be nice to be able to "jam" active cyno so ships that will jump on it will end up in different parts of the grid randomly(aka 200k from cyno) ;)
Daoden The Scope Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:43:14 - [36] - Quote I don't think there should be any module that can deactivate another persons modules (short of neuts or course). if your really worried about cynos that much there are several things you can do to avoid them. 1. as stated before cyno inhibitors 2. High sec if your really that afraid of them 3. WH space 4. a ship that people generally wont drop a cyno on the problem is it seems you just want to change the game for your own benefit, and while im sure others would benefit as well it takes away from the game.
Lord LazyGhost Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards. 488	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:55:10 - [37] - Quote Hows about the item does not block them but means they dont land on the cyno but land at random spots in system
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 692	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:51:16 - [38] - Quote What is there to stop a ship with a utility highslot from fitting this? What is the trade off? Besides losing a small neut or whatever. Would not every fleet roam with a ship or two that has this module fit? Stopping or impeding cynosural fields is an interesting idea, but it can't be so easy and guaranteed. There are all our dominion Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 471	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:32:35 - [39] - Quote McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: What is there to stop a ship with a utility highslot from fitting this? What is the trade off? Besides losing a small neut or whatever. Would not every fleet roam with a ship or two that has this module fit? Stopping or impeding cynosural fields is an interesting idea, but it can't be so easy and guaranteed. Pretty much this. The most I could see a highslot module do is cause the cyno landing range to become massively dispersed from 5km to (Just throwing a number out there) 500km. This would make it so extrreme sniping doctrines wouldn't simply benefit from using it on their own cyno by having most of their fleet land out of lock range, and it would simply give the defending fleet a few more seconds to react to the cyno as the enemy fleet attempts to warp back to their cyno. However this still wouldn't be a guarantee as something could still land 5km from the cyno. Although will that ship be that blingy pirate hull brawler, or will that be your logi backup? Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Alexis Nightwish 202	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:35:28 - [40] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: Cara Forelli wrote: As it is, the only really viable counter to dropping is counter dropping. Alexis Nightwish wrote: [Maller, Brick cyno] Or...you know, not taking obvious bait. Maller is terrible because everyone knows its a cyno. If you get scrammed by something as obvious and slow as a maller, you have bigger issues. You can annoy a cyno maller and blueball his gang by just sending enough kiting ships to tear it apart slowly - it's not going to light unless it has a solid lock on something, and if it does light, you can all just scurry away. Ship scanners and cargo scanners are also your friends, but again, most bait ships can be discerned more readily through judgement alone. Procurer? check to see if it has a mining laser equipped. If no, its a cyno. If you want to make convincing bait, you have to hull tank it so it still goes really fast but has enough buffer to initiate and aggressively tackle something. I never suggested the Maller was the bait ship, just the cyno. A more tantalizing ship or small fleet would be used to bait, then the Maller would warp in or decloak and pop the cyno. My point was simply that "killing the cyno" isn't a valid tactic. Cyno mechanics are terrible, and have been without change since implemented. I just want to be able to roam in LS or NS without needing my own Titan and fleet of risk averse l33t PvPers waiting on standby. So any change that would facilitate that interests me. Maybe when all this sov nonsense is done cyno mechanics will get a long overdue pass, but CCP has a knack for ignoring glaring problems for long periods of time so I'm not holding my breath. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Caldari 5 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative. 401	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:40:47 - [41] - Quote per wrote: Cara Forelli wrote: . Perhaps just "jams" the cyno i like this part, would be nice to be able to "jam" active cyno so ships that will jump on it will end up in different parts of the grid randomly(aka 200k from cyno) ;) I like this, instead of turning off the cyno, just increasing the radius that the jumping ships arrive at. McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: What is there to stop a ship with a utility highslot from fitting this? What is the trade off? Besides losing a small neut or whatever. Would not every fleet roam with a ship or two that has this module fit? Stopping or impeding cynosural fields is an interesting idea, but it can't be so easy and guaranteed. Considering that allot of ships had their utility high slots removed through tiericide, chance are that you'd have to go without a turret/launcher, rather than an actual utility high slot. Considering the number of ways that we have to prevent ships warping, adding an additional way of interacting with Cynos would be a good thing. T1 module increases the incoming radius to 100km, and T2 to 125km? I wasn't sure weather to suggest values outside or inside minimum warp range, if outside T1 175km, T2 250km. Remember that the module if targeted in the same way that WarpScrams/WarpDisruptors etc are, so it would only effect cyno's lit by the targeted ship.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1085	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:47:40 - [42] - Quote McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote: What is there to stop a ship with a utility highslot from fitting this? What is the trade off? Besides losing a small neut or whatever. Would not every fleet roam with a ship or two that has this module fit? Stopping or impeding cynosural fields is an interesting idea, but it can't be so easy and guaranteed. Some good criticism here! I think there are ways to solve this. Harsh fitting...very short range...some kind of penalty that makes it undesirable for general purpose use. Lets think about a roam fleet with a few of these mods. Is that such a bad thing? As others have pointed out, it would take time to react and take advantage of the module, especially if it has short range. It's quite possible a well coordinated group could drop anyway. Shouldn't we reward good coordination and punish poor coordination? Imagine actually needing skill to hotdrop. Plus there are other ways to get around it. Use a Falcon cyno for example. Bring multiple cynos. You know, the sort of HTFU workarounds that people normally throw at you when you suggest something out of the box (see early portions of this thread). I really don't think my suggestion would mean the end of hot dropping. Just perhaps the end of careless hot dropping, which is exactly how it should be IMO. per wrote: I like this, instead of turning off the cyno, just increasing the radius that the jumping ships arrive at. Interesting idea! After some retrospect however, I'm not sure that I'm a fan. Chance based mechanics are kind of frustrating and a big turn-off for most players (see ECM). I feel it would be much worse to spawn 70 km from your refit carrier buddy than to miss your cyno entirely, and it's not a mechanic you would have any control over. With my original idea, at least the suppressor ship could be dealt with, allowing the jump capable ships to enter the fight on their own terms (not stranded and random distances from the fleet). It would just require more effort and coordination than a single bait cyno (more ships in space!) Thanks everyone for the discussion, some interesting points are coming up! Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1086	Posted - 2015.05.26 13:39:58 - [43] - Quote Perhaps its use could be restricted to a single ship type. Interdictors maybe? It seems fitting given their role. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2462	Posted - 2015.05.26 14:09:09 - [44] - Quote I like this idea. I'd use it to jam a friendly cyno to scatter all the sniper battleships so they can engage at optimal range immediately after landing. A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 327	Posted - 2015.05.26 16:10:13 - [45] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Perhaps its use could be restricted to a single ship type. Interdictors maybe? It seems fitting given their role. Interdictors are meant to breach hostile warp tunnels and rip fleets out of warp early, not necessarily impact capital and titan bridged travel such as this. Of course thats not to say i dont like the idea, perhaps however it should be a choice the dictor has to make, bubble trouble or cyno disruption mod, never both Adds variety, choice, and consequence And it could even make the less used interdictors popular, say a fleet chooses to keep all its bubbles on the sabres but use eris to fit the cyno disruptors or vice versa Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 1090	Posted - 2015.05.28 15:56:11 - [46] - Quote Christopher Mabata wrote: [quote=Cara Forelli]Interdictors are meant to breach hostile warp tunnels and rip fleets out of warp early, not necessarily impact capital and titan bridged travel such as this. Of course thats not to say i dont like the idea, perhaps however it should be a choice the dictor has to make, bubble trouble or cyno disruption mod, never both Yes, I like the idea of making tough choices when fitting it. They could either be mutually exclusive or the fitting could be designed very harshly. Thinking about it more, perhaps HICs should have the option as well as they can actually stand up to gate guns in low sec. It could even be added as a script for their current bubble module, though that's the sort of detail I would leave up to CCP. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament

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