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WCS nerf won't fix Vagabond imbalance

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Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 20:43:00 - [1] Vagabond has to be nerfed and its the minnie whorum fores' fault. They have whined and whined till minnie ships virtually the same DPS as gallente or ammar and use no cap for their guns and now they are uber when used by people who know how to use their speed and agility. So now the devs will cut down on the agility and minmattars will cry... and they are right to cry. Their ships are supposed to be fast and agile and outmanoeuvre other races' ships... but guess what... they downplayed that factor in the DPS and tank discussions and got their way ... and now they ll pay by losing the best thing about their ship... What can I say? Serves you right gentlemen... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 20:53:00 - [2] Originally by: Tasty Burger Edited by: Tasty Burger on 14/11/2006 20:51:40 Originally by: Crellion Vagabond has to be nerfed and its the minnie whorum fores' fault. They have whined and whined till minnie ships virtually the same DPS as gallente or ammar and use no cap for their guns and now they are uber when used by people who know how to use their speed and agility. So now the devs will cut down on the agility and minmattars will cry... and they are right to cry. Their ships are supposed to be fast and agile and outmanoeuvre other races' ships... but guess what... they downplayed that factor in the DPS and tank discussions and got their way ... and now they ll pay by losing the best thing about their ship... What can I say? Serves you right gentlemen... Yeah... its all our fault. We're too good at killing all the idiots running around in ships they aren't ready to fly yet and they run to the forums asking for Vagabond nerfs. You really just don't know what you're whining about, do you? I assume you dont know me in game and will therefore not reply. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Tasty Burger Do you think I give a **** who you are? All I know is you made a stupid post. Hmmm I think you insist for a reply. Ok My post was 100% the truth about what the problem is today and who caused it ... (many people but your other char and Sarmaul were star contrubutors). Your post was: "I cant say anything about the substance of what you are saying but need to discredit this so I say you are a noob and you die to minmatar ships a lot cause you dont know how to fly your ships" Apart from being devoid from arguments the post was also ridiculous cause of the funny nubiness allegations. If you want to say something liek that about somebody (and this forums should be about the arguments and not personal stuff but meh) at least go check some killboards. I do now and then so i would never say Tasty M. is a n00b. But I would have no problems saying he is an idiot just based on posts like this one above... (I am assuming you are his alt if not I appologise to that guy... and you remain an idiot with no main.) Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Tasty Burger No, I'm not Testy McTest. oh lol good for him Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.14 21:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Liisa The problem is that instead of reducing the tank or the damage that the vagabond does, the devs are reducing the thing that makes the vagabond fun, its speed. They are attacking the ship, not the implants that make the ship quite overpowered. If speed is a problem, then with a lot of isk and hg snakes you can get a sleipnir to break 4km/s. Is this ship also broken? Perhaps the fitting should simply be made tighter on the vagabond. This would require either the damage or the tank to suffer, turning the ship even more into a walk on a tightrope than it is now. The reason why the vaga is hard to kill is because of the stabs. Will this still be so after the nerf? I am not so sure. There are too many vaga pilots who have lived so long due to their stabs. Those who fly without stabs normally run from most things or stay nicely at 15+km range in order to make sure that they do not get caught in a web. Its not the stabs Lisa. That was the 2005 fit. Today nanovaga > stabvaga. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:28:00 - [6] Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Tasty Burger Edited by: Tasty Burger on 14/11/2006 20:51:40 Originally by: Crellion Vagabond has to be nerfed and its the minnie whorum fores' fault. They have whined and whined till minnie ships virtually the same DPS as gallente or ammar and use no cap for their guns and now they are uber when used by people who know how to use their speed and agility. So now the devs will cut down on the agility and minmattars will cry... and they are right to cry. Their ships are supposed to be fast and agile and outmanoeuvre other races' ships... but guess what... they downplayed that factor in the DPS and tank discussions and got their way ... and now they ll pay by losing the best thing about their ship... What can I say? Serves you right gentlemen... Yeah... its all our fault. We're too good at killing all the idiots running around in ships they aren't ready to fly yet and they run to the forums asking for Vagabond nerfs. You really just don't know what you're whining about, do you? I assume you dont know me in game and will therefore not reply. So... Let's blame those people who have gone through the time and effort to create and analyze DPS graphs betweeen the various races? It's clearly people like Testy McTest and Jim McGregor who have FORCED the devs to cripple the Matari!?! All those calls for increased DPS have DOOMED us!!111 eleventy!!11one Oh noes! Maybe instead of saying they've "forced" the devs hand in nerfing the Vaga, perhaps you should show a little respect for their work and do your own **** research, since apparently we should all know who you are in game... I just hope that the devs are smart enough to ignore the idiots here who claim that the Vagabond is "overpowered". It's fast... so what? The stabber is fast, too... Let's nerf that, too! It loses a bonus to achieve that speed. Perhaps we could switch the speed bonus to a target painting bonus... Every single reply you have here relies to misinterpretation and oversimplification of the argument you reply to to the extent of making your post worthless. Examples: - Yes its fats and I have no problem with that. the problem is chronic intentional downplaying of the measure of that advantage to calculate the relative measure of the disadvantages in DPS and tank it should suffer. The result is an imbalanced ship. In todays climate of homogenising all ships and races what do you thing the nerfbat will hit: DPS as it should or speed as it will... - No nobody needs to know me in game of course, unless if they make a case that I have the views I post here merely because I lose my ships all the time to minnie ships etc cause I dont know how to fit them etc. Now all this you could have read clearly in the initial posts and I didnt need to clarify here... I dont want to attribute you with lack of intellect.. what then? Lack of objectivity? who knows... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.15 17:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Crellion Vagabond has to be nerfed and its the minnie whorum fores' fault. They have whined and whined till minnie ships virtually the same DPS as gallente or ammar and use no cap for their guns and now they are uber when used by people who know how to use their speed and agility. So now the devs will cut down on the agility and minmattars will cry... and they are right to cry. Their ships are supposed to be fast and agile and outmanoeuvre other races' ships... but guess what... they downplayed that factor in the DPS and tank discussions and got their way ... and now they ll pay by losing the best thing about their ship... What can I say? Serves you right gentlemen... Do you people even bother to check your "facts" before posting? Damage Comparison of HACs Vagabond doesn't come anywhere close to "virtually the same damage" as Gallente, and only outdamages the Zealot within 15km and tanks like crap compared to it. Hehe... first read the post you reply too: it says minnie ships nad not minnie HACs or Vagabond. Second assuming your graphs are right (I have no reason not to) I find it plain ridiculous that the Vaga has more DPS than a Zealot or a Cerb, I main plain WRONG. Its like having an inty with 1000 armour hp (TQ) and top speed of 3000 do 100 DPS and an inty with 500 armror hp (tq) and top speed of 10000 do 150 DPS ... I think you should hide that chart at the back of yoour closet... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.

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