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WTS Regional 300km off-gate BMs, all gates

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hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:39:00 - [1] (mods, please read first before thinking of moving this to another forum) /salesman voice Selling regional BMs 300km off-gates in random direction! All gates included. Your safest way to travel and avoid all blockades in any region! Come quick, supplies are limited! Warp to any gate at a safe distance to avoid all bubbles. If the bubble is not straight on gate, use your 0-warp in option to safely leave the system. If you get stuck in bubble on other side, simply CTRL+Q to safely log off, cause CCP said it was not an exploit. Get your instas-set today. Available on escrow /salesman voice off At fanfest CCP said that copying BMs is the largest load on the server, and they are planning to remove it ( Linkage) If CCP thinks their "solution" will stop BM copying, they are naive as a toddler. If any player thinks that my first 2 paragraphs will not happen, they haven't played the game long enough. People will still have just as many BMs for travelling, but now instead of instas, they will be BMs in a random direction off the gate. You warp to that, see the position of the bubbles/hostile forces, and since most bubbles are placed in front/behind gates in-line with other gates, your 300km-off-random-direction insta will safe you from being sucked in, and if the actual gate is not bubbled, you can instawarp to it at 0 and escape. And dont worry about other side bubbled. CCP doesn't care about exploits... oh wait... it's "not an exploit to log out in bubble" Who here really thinks that proposed changes will stop massive amount of BMs being copied? It wont. People will still copy them. There will still be sets on Escrow, like the one i described. CCP is not fixing the problem, they are just wasting their time on a "solution" that will change gameplay yet will leave the problem as is Oh well, i am off to make regional BM's 300km off gates and ready to profit big when Kali comes =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 16:43:00 They are also putting in a limit on the total amount of bookmarks you can have. Hopefully its small enough to not allow this crap to continue. I would settle for 300 bookmarks maximum. And hopefully they disable bookmark copying entirely. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:45:00 - [3] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 13/11/2006 16:55:04 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 16:41:29 They are also putting in a limit on the total amount of bookmarks you can have. Hopefully its small enough to not allow this crap to continue. I would settle for 300 bookmarks maximum. i second this .. as a sidenote - if you really think you can get away with this - i'll gonna copy a few BMs of your set just for the sake of it (and gonna train for dictor to sit on one of those BMs and drop a bubble on the other buyers of you ... you can call it griefing if you want - as i doubt many people will use such a set then if they always have to fear that the "ebil piwates" - who also got the set from you - will use interdictor bubbles on these spots) edit: oh wait .. you didn't announce to sell such sets .. sry - should have read it more concentrated. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.11.13 16:45:00 - [4] a 300 limit or there abouts would be fine. It would allow traders to actually have some 300km BMs for their 0.0 trade routes or other dangerous stuff. But I agree with the OP...if there is not a limit to personal BMs then you are really not fixing the problem. Merc Blog
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:14:00 - [5] Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 13/11/2006 17:16:47 To prevent poisoned sets, why not drop 4-5 300km off each gate? That way people can just warp to one of them and always be 300km off. Genius! I think a total limit is wise, or even limiting interaction to bookmarks only in the current region. Bookmark copying will slow dawn greatly if people have to fly to the region in question to copy them. Edit: Make it a skill. eg: Cartography Allows modification and duplication of bookmarks further from their point of creation. Doubles range with each level. L1 1 L2 2 L3 4 L4 8 L5 Region Required: Navigation What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Tuang Pao The Billionaire Club	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:18:00 - [6] Edited by: Tuang Pao on 13/11/2006 17:18:44 The future of gatecamps post-Kali echoes the past. Effective gate camps will be interdiction bubbles planted at gate exits. Gate approach bookmarks are irrelevant in such cases.
Chai N'Dorr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 16:43:00 They are also putting in a limit on the total amount of bookmarks you can have. Hopefully its small enough to not allow this crap to continue. I would settle for 300 bookmarks maximum. And hopefully they disable bookmark copying entirely. Limit on BM's to be put in P&P won't help much. Just drag the ones you don't need for the coming time to a can and keep the others. Moving? Drag the ones from your P&P to a can and drop the other BM's from the first can in your P&P. I have no clue what CCP originally intended with BM's... but it's now far from what that was. And if it's truely this bad and puts so much strain on the server: why not scratch the whole concept and be done with it. _ Join the Movement!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Chai N'Dorr I have no clue what CCP originally intended with BM's... but it's now far from what that was. And if it's truely this bad and puts so much strain on the server: why not scratch the whole concept and be done with it. We still need them to go from A to B for locations that we pick ourselfs. It could be warping in on someone, a safespot or whatever. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Chai N'Dorr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.13 17:29:00 - [9] Will become naught with the new scanning I think... scan what you seek, pick it from the list and warp to it. You'd just have to do it again next time you want to go there. _ Join the Movement!
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:22:00 - [10] If you drop a bubble in the midpoint between two gates, do ships get pulled out of warp at that point?
Mr Bondy Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Za Po If you drop a bubble in the midpoint between two gates, do ships get pulled out of warp at that point? Nope, i wish they did...but nope
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:52:00 - [12] I am not sure that everyone that replied got my sarcasm. I don't want the above to happen, but i played EvE long enough to know that it will. There will be people making such BM sets, and there will be people buying such sets on market. And the insane amount of BM copying will continue.... so CCP fixed absolutely nothing. I am really hoping... no, i am preying that they do put very severe limits on BMs, like maybe 20-30 BMs per user.... but knowing CCP this is unlikely.... I am very disappointed in CCP =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.13 18:55:00 - [13] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 13/11/2006 18:56:38 Originally by: hydraSlav If any player thinks that my first 2 paragraphs will not happen, they haven't played the game long enough. I've already been planning this as a corp project, unfortunately the total amount of bms per corp member would triple, which is a bit of a pain to copy. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:23:00 - [14] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 13/11/2006 17:16:47 To prevent poisoned sets, why not drop 4-5 300km off each gate? That way people can just warp to one of them and always be 300km off. Genius! I think a total limit is wise, or even limiting interaction to bookmarks only in the current region. Bookmark copying will slow dawn greatly if people have to fly to the region in question to copy them. Edit: Make it a skill. eg: Cartography Allows modification and duplication of bookmarks further from their point of creation. Doubles range with each level. L1 1 L2 2 L3 4 L4 8 L5 Region Required: Navigation NO MORE GOD ****ED TIME SINK SKILS!
Ayms Obsidian Asylum Pure.	Posted - 2006.11.13 19:55:00 - [15] OP Nice that you start by thinking everyone is an idiot. If 300km BMs were such a good idea people would already sell them, since they would offer the exact same benefits today, as they will post Kali. So exactly were is this a issue that is new because of Kali?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Ayms OP Nice that you start by thinking everyone is an idiot. If 300km BMs were such a good idea people would already sell them, since they would offer the exact same benefits today, as they will post Kali. No they wouldn't, because there is no "warp to 0km" button. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Chai N'Dorr Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 13/11/2006 16:43:00 They are also putting in a limit on the total amount of bookmarks you can have. Hopefully its small enough to not allow this crap to continue. I would settle for 300 bookmarks maximum. And hopefully they disable bookmark copying entirely. Limit on BM's to be put in P&P won't help much. Just drag the ones you don't need for the coming time to a can and keep the others. Moving? Drag the ones from your P&P to a can and drop the other BM's from the first can in your P&P. I have no clue what CCP originally intended with BM's... but it's now far from what that was. And if it's truely this bad and puts so much strain on the server: why not scratch the whole concept and be done with it. Have fun moving a few hundred bookmarks around at 5 at a time. The Deeper you stick it in your vien, the deeper the thoughts there is no more pain.
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:13:00 - [18] Originally by: hydraSlav (mods, please read first before thinking of moving this to another forum) /salesman voice Selling regional BMs 300km off-gates in random direction! All gates included. Your safest way to travel and avoid all blockades in any region! Come quick, supplies are limited! Warp to any gate at a safe distance to avoid all bubbles. If the bubble is not straight on gate, use your 0-warp in option to safely leave the system. If you get stuck in bubble on other side, simply CTRL+Q to safely log off, cause CCP said it was not an exploit. Get your instas-set today. Available on escrow /salesman voice off At fanfest CCP said that copying BMs is the largest load on the server, and they are planning to remove it ( Linkage) If CCP thinks their "solution" will stop BM copying, they are naive as a toddler. If any player thinks that my first 2 paragraphs will not happen, they haven't played the game long enough. People will still have just as many BMs for travelling, but now instead of instas, they will be BMs in a random direction off the gate. You warp to that, see the position of the bubbles/hostile forces, and since most bubbles are placed in front/behind gates in-line with other gates, your 300km-off-random-direction insta will safe you from being sucked in, and if the actual gate is not bubbled, you can instawarp to it at 0 and escape. And dont worry about other side bubbled. CCP doesn't care about exploits... oh wait... it's "not an exploit to log out in bubble" Who here really thinks that proposed changes will stop massive amount of BMs being copied? It wont. People will still copy them. There will still be sets on Escrow, like the one i described. CCP is not fixing the problem, they are just wasting their time on a "solution" that will change gameplay yet will leave the problem as is Oh well, i am off to make regional BM's 300km off gates and ready to profit big when Kali comes toddler, chuckle OP, your going to look pretty silly with bm's under 40 to any celestial object. oh! i'm sorry, you didnt get that memo?
Abaddon Nostros Minmatar Nostros Shipyards	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ayms OP Nice that you start by thinking everyone is an idiot. If 300km BMs were such a good idea people would already sell them, since they would offer the exact same benefits today, as they will post Kali. No they wouldn't, because there is no "warp to 0km" button. Sure there is, It's your other set of currently working warp to 0 bookmarks.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.11.13 20:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Ayms OP Nice that you start by thinking everyone is an idiot. If 300km BMs were such a good idea people would already sell them, since they would offer the exact same benefits today, as they will post Kali. No they wouldn't, because there is no "warp to 0km" button. TY, DS =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Tipsy Gallente X-Factor Industries	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:30:00 - [21] Originally by: hydraSlav People will still have just as many BMs for travelling, but now instead of instas, they will be BMs in a random direction off the gate. Do many of the systems you travel through in 0.0 often have a hostile camp that isn't using a bubble? With the routes I take through to the North, there may be two or three systems I'm concerned about, one of which'll be the entry system into 0.0. An unusually large number of people in space, a few ship kills in the last hour or other factors may account for the other one or two. If a hostile camp is in operation, there's a pretty good chance I'll know about it before I get there, either because of the map, a scout, or other intel that has come my way - and I'll deal with it. How will warp to 0 change that? Yes, those camps where people didn't use bubbles are going to have bubbles. We're going to have to get better information and more people're going to have to learn to scan a gate before they warp to it when hostiles are in system. I do not see how the changes will cause the systems that have been quiet every other time I flew through them to suddenly be camped with sufficient frequency that I'd make sure I and everyone else in my corp had bookmarks around their gates - and that would make many other people act similarly. It's those sort of numbers (ie. hundreds of systems) you're talking about to come close to matching the amount of instabookmark copying. I have well over one thousand bookmarks, and while there are a few systems I should have a few more bookmarks in to avoid wandering into camps, they would only add up to a tiny proportion of my total. Other people may be different, but will many really spend hours making bookmarks around gates if they weren't being camped before? I'm interested in people's responses to this, if I've missed something. -- Tipsy XFI Chief of Staff
Bellum Eternus	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:41:00 - [22] I can't see limiting the total number of BMs without severely limiting players like myself. I have over 5,000 BMs that are purely tactical BMs, having nothing to do with gates. a 300 BM limit is ridiculous. And to the OP: you're exactly correct. People will indeed be doing this IMO. Furthermore, you could also conclude that there might be even more BMs being copied, as you could have multiple 300km gate instas for various directions so that you could pick one that best suited the situation. Sounds lovely, no? ----------------------------------------------- "I said ENGLISH MOTHER******, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!?!" - Samuel L Jackson, Pulp Fiction
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.13 23:50:00 - [23] You will have to excuse me if I don't get this. Currently you need gate to gate instas, but they do not protect you from the bubbles you talk about. The instas you are "selling" are needed today, and indeed I have a set for the areas I operate. I have 3 sets of instas for regions that I fly 1) g2g 2) gate scan point (off line) 3) scan point to gate (as scan point was offline) warp to 0km kills 2 of my sets off. Sounds like a good idea if you ask me. Btw - no you may not have a copy of my scan spots, no way. Ppl who trade those just get ganked. I really do not ever expect to see large scale scan spot insta copying services springing up. There is just no real need with a warp to 0km option. All you do is warp to some object that is within 15AU of the gate you want to leave by and scan it. If its clear warp to 0km to get out. Of course a cloaked interdictor with a bubble already out my catch you, buts its remote (and you can logout as you say) :)
Siakel	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Red Ochre toddler, chuckle OP, your going to look pretty silly with bm's under 40 to any celestial object. oh! i'm sorry, you didnt get that memo? Huh? Last I checked, 300km was not 'under 40km'. Guess you didn't read the post?
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:14:00 - [25] A Proper gate gate camp would have 3 med bubbles. 1 above, 1 below and 1 behind the gate from the direction that warp traffic will come. -------------- Dang nabit
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:14:00 - [26] Edited by: Nanobotter Mk2 on 14/11/2006 00:17:12 "If any player thinks that my first 2 paragraphs will not happen, they haven't played the game long enough." It might happen to a VERY VERY limited degree, you have'nt thought this through let me explain why... If they truly where useful people would ALREADY have them in conjunction with thier insta's, but with warp to 0 it drops you on the gate and you insta jump who cares if there is a bubble. there is no need to stop 300km ahead to see if the gate is camped when you can warp to 0km, it is coming out the other side that has always been the issue your BM's would sell like hotcakes if they removed all bookmarks within 50km of gates and left the nearest as 15km :P pretty much why we need warp to zero to solve the bookmark issue.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "If any player thinks that my first 2 paragraphs will not happen, they haven't played the game long enough." It might happen to a VERY VERY limited degree, you have'nt thought this through let me explain why... If they truly where useful people would ALREADY have them in conjunction with thier insta's, but with warp to 0 it drops you on the gate and you insta jump who cares if there is a bubble. there is no need to stop 300km ahead to see if the gate is camped when you can warp to 0km, it is coming out the other side that has always been the issue The bubble pulls you into it. Even when warping to the gate on an insta, or warping to 0km. That's the reason for these.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:25:00 - [28] Hrmm learning op here. So you're saying If i am warping to a gate, and my insta is set to drop me right on the gate, and a bubble is right there, I cannot click jump gate soon as i drop warp because the bubble would have pull me off the gate my insta was dropping me on? Never been caught like this so i didnt think it happened, I always get jacked up on the exit side of the gate.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Hrmm learning op here. So you're saying If i am warping to a gate, and my insta is set to drop me right on the gate, and a bubble is right there, I cannot click jump gate soon as i drop warp because the bubble would have pull me off the gate my insta was dropping me on? Never been caught like this so i didnt think it happened, I always get jacked up on the exit side of the gate. If the bubble is placed right, yes. It should drop you far enough from the gate that the tacklers can get you before you can make it into jumping range.
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.14 00:28:00 - [30] To be honest if you start making these sets they'll just start widening the ring until you get bored of copying BM's. Or they'll just kill them all together and give us a skill limited thing instead. ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson

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