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Would this tactic be effective against "hyper dunking?"

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Damen Apol Fight The Blob 106	Posted - 2015.05.25 15:32:08 - [1] - Quote You're solo in a freighter or whatever industrial ship that can't allign fast enough. You get bumped like crazy and aggressed and can't log off. You log off anyway, your ship stays in space as the ganker continues to chew through your EHP. You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up. I'm partially wondering if having two ships/characters from the same account online in space would be considered and exploit of some sort? I'm also partially wondering if that would even work or if the ability to have multiple characters in space (albeit not under your control) from a single account has further ramifications.
Aquila Sagitta Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 623	Posted - 2015.05.25 15:39:54 - [2] - Quote Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled) Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25% Blue-Fire Best Fire
Damen Apol Fight The Blob 106	Posted - 2015.05.25 15:46:45 - [3] - Quote Aquila Sagitta wrote: Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled) Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25% Ah, I'm pretty unaware of such things obviously.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1589	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:06:31 - [4] - Quote Fly with an escort. Good scout + web alts. Web alts can also ECM. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1118	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:12:09 - [5] - Quote Damen Apol wrote: Aquila Sagitta wrote: Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled) Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25% Ah, I'm pretty unaware of such things obviously. I will correct Aquila though; in most cases yes, ganks happen quickly, but in your specific example (a hyperdunking), due to the warping around needed by the process, it can drag over several minutes, so in theory your tactic could work. And I know for a fact at least a couple of years ago (not from doing this, but a comical mistake) that you can log in a second character on the same account if the first is logged out but still in space (that moment when you undock to see your alt sitting in a bubble of the station ), but not sure if it would be deemed legal or an exploit to do so (I am not smart enough to see the clever loopholes such a tactic could create).
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8629	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:20:28 - [6] - Quote The most effective tactic against hyper-dunking is to sell your hauler character and use the proceeds to pay for your transport needs. People like Red Frog are quite good at avoiding problems and are a reasonable price. Plus, they take the risk. All you do is fire them a couple of million ISKies, tell them where to pick up and drop off and then go have some fun doing anything but hauling. When the choice is between risking your ship and whatever it's carrying or tossing some guy a million a jump to run from Jita to Amarr and risking nothing, I know which I'd choose. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
000Hunter000 Missiles 'R' Us 40	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:38:43 - [7] - Quote Now a while ago there was another thread talking about bumping someones ship again and again. Now i do remember (a long time ago) it was considered griefing if u kept on bumping someone thus preventing them from going into warp (note that i don't mean bumping a wartarget so he can't align, but bumping a neutral target in hi sec.) I asked the same question then but I never got an answer from a dev. Offcourse maybe it's only griefing if u bump them and don't suicide gank them. IMO, atleast they should change the system so if u bump someone repeatedly u will get flagged to that person so they can shoot at you Atleast this way the bumper has a risk as well, i mean it's a sandbox right?
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3428	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:51:19 - [8] - Quote In my opinion, that is a valid tactic. The only issue will be getting your alt to the system fast enough. Also, if you keep your alt stashed in the area where these activities happen, you can amuse yourself by being a white knight and repping anyone who is getting hyperdunked. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2427	Posted - 2015.05.25 16:56:08 - [9] - Quote Maybe try sending in a petition and find out. I can't imagine it as a total exploit since you can't be expected to wait until your character safe logs to log in somewhere else.
Kashadin Big Johnson's 68	Posted - 2015.05.25 17:04:58 - [10] - Quote By the nature of the hyperdunk, you wouldn't be able to get there in time to do anything. following along with a alt in a logi ship with webs could be a interesting way to go around it tho.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2427	Posted - 2015.05.25 17:14:04 - [11] - Quote Kashadin wrote: By the nature of the hyperdunk, you wouldn't be able to get there in time to do anything. following along with a alt in a logi ship with webs could be a interesting way to go around it tho. that depends. If i pre-position my logi in a system with most likelihood of a gank, and some tries to hyperdunk, I can definitely log in and warp to gate before I die. Unless of course I do something really stupid.
Shayla Sh'inlux Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 67	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:04:43 - [12] - Quote Kashadin wrote: By the nature of the hyperdunk, you wouldn't be able to get there in time to do anything. following along with a alt in a logi ship with webs could be a interesting way to go around it tho. I think you don't quite know what hyperdunking is.
Kashadin Big Johnson's 68	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:09:26 - [13] - Quote I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms. Edit: Also I always thought that hyperdunks were more "suddenly supers" in a LS/NS fight than "HS gank"
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13125	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:09:52 - [14] - Quote Damen Apol wrote: You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up. I'm almost positive you would be perma banned for doing that. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1833	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:10:29 - [15] - Quote Rowells wrote: Kashadin wrote: By the nature of the hyperdunk, you wouldn't be able to get there in time to do anything. following along with a alt in a logi ship with webs could be a interesting way to go around it tho. that depends. If i pre-position my logi in a system with most likelihood of a gank, and some tries to hyperdunk, I can definitely log in and warp to gate before I die. Unless of course I do something really stupid. Could you rep "yourself" and ECM the ganker with your alt enough time to deplete his ship stock? Since we are pulling crazy ideas ya know... Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Damen Apol wrote: You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up. I'm almost positive you would be perma banned for doing that. That is an interesting point being brought forward.
Kashadin Big Johnson's 68	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:12:42 - [16] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Damen Apol wrote: You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up. I'm almost positive you would be perma banned for doing that. Why? If the ship can be attacked it should be able to be defended, you are already making the choice to lose any benefits you get from skills to defend the ship when you swap over.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13125	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:16:11 - [17] - Quote Kashadin wrote: Why? You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows. If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kashadin Big Johnson's 68	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:22:31 - [18] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Kashadin wrote: Why? You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows. If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask. My argument against that was in the post you quoted. If it is such a issue as to warrant banning a easy change would be to make any ships that belong to a toon on the same acct disappear as soon as another toon logs into the same acct, I'm sure gankers would love that idea.
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1833	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:27:14 - [19] - Quote Kashadin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Kashadin wrote: Why? You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows. If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask. My argument against that was in the post you quoted. If it is such a issue as to warrant banning a easy change would be to make any ships that belong to a toon on the same acct disappear as soon as another toon logs into the same acct, I'm sure gankers would love that idea. Not gonna happen. This isa perfect logoffski handed to you on a platter. Forcefully crash your cleint and log back on an alt to save any ships including but not limited to titans...
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 8631	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:39:26 - [20] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Kashadin wrote: Why? You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows. If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask. Who cares if it's the same acct. Only one character is logged in from the players perspective. The other character is essentially a ghost. Not logged in to the client and not controllable by the player. I have seen and have experienced hundreds of times logging in and seeing the character I or someone else just logged out because of a dump or just to switch characters still sitting there. Not my problem. And if CCP choose not to do something about it since forever, I will use it to my advantage. It will never be declared an exploit to have a ghost still in space because of an external force applied to that ship upon logging out. And since it's not an exploit, there will be no warning let alone a ban. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Kashadin Big Johnson's 68	Posted - 2015.05.25 18:51:51 - [21] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Kashadin wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Kashadin wrote: Why? You really can't think of why? The whole "same account" part might cause a GM to raise his eyebrows. If you don't believe me, by all means, put in a ticket and ask. My argument against that was in the post you quoted. If it is such a issue as to warrant banning a easy change would be to make any ships that belong to a toon on the same acct disappear as soon as another toon logs into the same acct, I'm sure gankers would love that idea. Not gonna happen. This isa perfect logoffski handed to you on a platter. Forcefully crash your cleint and log back on an alt to save any ships including but not limited to titans... That was my point, in the case of "logging in my logi to fix my freighter" the 1st toon is being kept in space because of something that I have no control over in a ship that has no way to fight back outside of concord showing up. That being said I think that it is highly unlikely to work as it would require you to be ganked in a place that you have the 2nd toon and for you to: 1: Log into the the new 2: Get in system 2: Land on grid 3: Lock Freighter 4: start reps and have them land All the while your ship has lost any bonuses from piloting skill, is now sitting there like a lump (to be fair it was pretty much doing this before), and the ganker is still shooting you. If you can manage all this then you were prolly not going to die anyways.
Siegfried Cohenberg Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 86	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:02:17 - [22] - Quote Aquila Sagitta wrote: Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled) Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25% this is a myth you don't lose any ehp for logging off
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9713	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:17:21 - [23] - Quote Siegfried Cohenberg wrote: Aquila Sagitta wrote: Ganks generally happen very quickly. Your ship would be dead before you loaded grid with second account (assuming you were logged off where your freighter was tackled) Your ship also loses all bonuses when you log off cuting your ehp by up to 25% this is a myth you don't lose any ehp for logging off is correct you're still plugged into the ship. If you ejected you would lose it but not from log or dc. Also this is a silly thread...but I like it. =]\|[=
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1122	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:28:21 - [24] - Quote Kashadin wrote: I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms. A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1122	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:37:40 - [25] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Damen Apol wrote: You log on to the same account with an alt in a logi ship, find where your bump-tackled ship is and rep it up. Until ganker either calls in more backup to beat your reps, suicides on your logi ship, or gives up. I'm almost positive you would be perma banned for doing that. I would guess it was safe, after all, it could be argued that the pilot had no say in his first character staying logged in ("I logged him off, it was the other character who kept him on field"), and as only one is under active control, its not getting two characters on the sly. Of course, i'm sure there would be ways to exploit this, particularly with long-cycle modules (get your alt agressed then have a second character participate whilst the firsts module is still running), but I can't thing of many immediately - maybe fleet boosters, certainly cynos, but then you would need a second account anyway to invite your second character in to the first characters fleet. Maybe the new entosis link too, basically anything with a multiple-minute cycle time. As for should it be allowable? Well, at least the guys being pro-active, so I'd urge on the side of clever thinking being a fair counter to clever thinking.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 25184	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:41:30 - [26] - Quote Effective? Yes. Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes. Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Kashadin Big Johnson's 70	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:47:34 - [27] - Quote Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Kashadin wrote: I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms. A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time. I propose a new term then. "slow burn gank" or "grinder" Makes more sense since (i love english) there is nothing hyper nor dunk-like with the current version.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 70	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:52:15 - [28] - Quote Tippia wrote: Effective? Yes. Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes. Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes. Seems like an ingenious solution, but will take some planning to pull off. I don't think it would be considered an exploit as your initial character is being prevented from logging off through no action of your own. If you yourself prevented your character from logging off and then logged on another character to provide some kind of in game benefit, then yes that may be considered an exploit. Who knows with CCP though, its hard to tell until you put some test cases before them and see how they react.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 9714	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:53:22 - [29] - Quote Tippia wrote: Effective? Yes. Difficult to pull off reliably? Also yes. Bound to create a threadnought as the GMs' can't provide an official answer? Very yes. It's so meta we may have to have the threadnought before anyone actually pulls it off...onwards to page three o/ =]\|[=
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 70	Posted - 2015.05.25 19:53:49 - [30] - Quote Kashadin wrote: Aralyn Cormallen wrote: Kashadin wrote: I would assume it is a bump followed by a alpha gank, if not then it's not really all that hyper and this game is starting to go off into left field with its terms. A hyperdunk is the proces of committing a gank by a single character applying all the dps and cycling through ships - I believe the process is dumping a ton of unpiloted catalysts from an orca in one spot, and a bunch of shuttles/noobships elsewhere. The ganker attacks with catalyst one, gets concorded, warps and gets in to shuttle one while under the GCC so concord warps to that and concords it, the pilot warps to catalyst two, doing damage while concord warps back from the shuttle dump to concord catalyst 2, then its back and forth between catalysts and shuttles with concord pinging back and forth behind. By the nature of it, it takes quite a bit of time. I propose a new term then. "slow burn gank" or "grinder" Makes more sense since (i love english) there is nothing hyper nor dunk-like with the current version. Or it might be easier if you simply adopt the term hyper-dunking; after all that is the term that anyone who keeps up with events knows it as. winks

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