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Lord Lothian
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Posted - 2006.11.16 20:53:00 -
[1]
I need to know, this BPO costs 380M on test server, and has 36M materials a shot on th matari index. Is it worth investing in this BPO? I hear the thing got nerfed hideously and is outgunned by the caracal... With the new setup, costing around 38~40M, would you still consider getting one of these?
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Azrael Maxim
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.16 20:59:00 -
[2]
I might get a drake to look at in my hangar. =)
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:00:00 -
[3]
sure if you are mission running for the caldari navy
for pvp? no get a raven, only the raven can get a rof bonus to launchers, no other caldari ship outside of the t2 ones are allowed to get this magical bonus, instead they get a bonus that has been proven time and time again to suck.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Captain Raynor sure if you are mission running for the caldari navy
for pvp? no get a raven, only the raven can get a rof bonus to launchers, no other caldari ship outside of the t2 ones are allowed to get this magical bonus, instead they get a bonus that has been proven time and time again to suck.
Just out of curiosity, what did you think of the drake before the nerf?
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor sure if you are mission running for the caldari navy
for pvp? no get a raven, only the raven can get a rof bonus to launchers, no other caldari ship outside of the t2 ones are allowed to get this magical bonus, instead they get a bonus that has been proven time and time again to suck.
Just out of curiosity, what did you think of the drake before the nerf?
I think like most of the other tier2 battlecruisers it was too strong in DPS.
Minus 1 launcher was appropriate just as the minus 1 turret was for the Hurricane.
Of course the Harbinger looks rather freaking awesome now compared to the others but oh well.
The rate of fire bonus being replaced with the kinetic missile damage bonus pretty much has sealed the Drakes fate as a PvE ship since it's basically a Ferox now when not using kinetics, awesome
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Raynor Of course the Harbinger looks rather freaking awesome now compared to the others but oh well.
The rate of fire bonus being replaced with the kinetic missile damage bonus pretty much has sealed the Drakes fate as a PvE ship since it's basically a Ferox now when not using kinetics, awesome
I'm dying to know why you think EM is more appropriate for PvP than Kinetic.
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Lord Lothian
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:13:00 -
[7]
My first thought was that with 2 BPO i couldent make a loss as it would be in such high demand. I mean look at the old statistics, i tried it with basic missile skills and sank 3 BS rats. Now thats power to the cruiser class weaponry.
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Captain Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor Of course the Harbinger looks rather freaking awesome now compared to the others but oh well.
The rate of fire bonus being replaced with the kinetic missile damage bonus pretty much has sealed the Drakes fate as a PvE ship since it's basically a Ferox now when not using kinetics, awesome
I'm dying to know why you think EM is more appropriate for PvP than Kinetic.
Because EM is actually the lowest resist on many ships.
On shield tanks other than Minmatar it's defidently the lowest.. though Thermal is pretty close.
Against armor tanks unless they are fitting a PURE EANM II tank then EM actually does tend to be the lowest resist, it depends.
Quote:
Daniel Jackson > a harbinger cant be a raven cause its not caldari Daniel Jackson > and its not a missle ship Jim Raynor > thank you for that expert analysis DJ
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Lord Lothian
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:18:00 -
[9]
Probly cos with the Rokh comming onto the scene it will be more useful. EM>sheild tank in my experience.
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Captain Raynor
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Captain Raynor Of course the Harbinger looks rather freaking awesome now compared to the others but oh well.
The rate of fire bonus being replaced with the kinetic missile damage bonus pretty much has sealed the Drakes fate as a PvE ship since it's basically a Ferox now when not using kinetics, awesome
I'm dying to know why you think EM is more appropriate for PvP than Kinetic.
Because EM is actually the lowest resist on many ships.
On shield tanks other than Minmatar it's defidently the lowest.. though Thermal is pretty close.
Against armor tanks unless they are fitting a PURE EANM II tank then EM actually does tend to be the lowest resist, it depends.
Sounds like you and the amarr whiners have some things to hash out.
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Lord Lothian
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Posted - 2006.11.16 21:27:00 -
[11]
Yup, sheild tankers use the weps to pierce armor, and armor tanker use the weps against sheilds. What hapopens? get double HP or summin, problem solved :)
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.16 23:54:00 -
[12]
Drake is crap now. Pure crap. Dps is lower than Thorax has. And costs almost as much as tier 1 BS(Typhoon, for example or Geddon) --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.17 00:04:00 -
[13]
1) 7 missiles and change ROF to kinetic dmg bonus.
2) 6 missiles and keep ROF bonus. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.17 00:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire 1) 7 missiles and change ROF to kinetic dmg bonus,
2) 6 missiles and keep ROF bonus.
I'd agree, but I think it needs an additional 50 powergrid. As it stands, I practically need to fill the lows with PDS/RCUs to fill every hi and medslot.
I'm not talking about adding layers of large shield extenders either. Try fitting 6 launchers and 2 med rails with an AB/MWD and anything in the midslots.
This additionally is compounded by the fact that the damage bonuses are lowslot items--you're basically consigned to vanilla damage unless you fit FRIGATE weapons to round out the hislots, so you can mount a BCU/Mag stab in the lows.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.17 00:15:00 -
[15]
Wedo not need kinetic damage bonus. Let's CCP use it somewhere else. --------------------------------- Hint: Train for Mega, not for Rokh R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.17 00:23:00 -
[16]
So what would be the most profitable Teir 2 BC bpo to buy now? The Harbinger?
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Ewa Quillam
Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.11.17 01:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire 1) 7 missiles and change ROF to kinetic dmg bonus,
2) 6 missiles and keep ROF bonus.
I'd agree, but I think it needs an additional 50 powergrid. As it stands, I practically need to fill the lows with PDS/RCUs to fill every hi and medslot.
I'm not talking about adding layers of large shield extenders either. Try fitting 6 launchers and 2 med rails with an AB/MWD and anything in the midslots.
This additionally is compounded by the fact that the damage bonuses are lowslot items--you're basically consigned to vanilla damage unless you fit FRIGATE weapons to round out the hislots, so you can mount a BCU/Mag stab in the lows.
PG is just fine and u don't need to put med rails in those 2 slots, just put small rails to shoot drones.
My actual setup is 6 Arbalest heavy missiles 2 small rails
1 y-t8 2 LSE II 1 Invul II 1 faint 20km 1 1 hypnos multijammer
2 BCU II 1 PDU II 1 Shield power relay
1 20% Em resist rig 1 20% Thermic resist rig 1 10% more cap rig
With BC 4 resists are 60-65% average, 16.5k shield, passive shield tank, 1000m/s, enough cap for the mwd with crap navigation skills.
This is a great ship, good missile dps, good passive tank, probably some solo capabilities, good speed.
Just stop whining and dreaming about the uber solo dps cheap tanked 50 mil BC and try this, it rocks!!!
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.17 08:42:00 -
[18]
It is not even proper PvE ship with the kin damage bonus as real PvE is a lot about choosing your damage type. But I guess it will work for the mindless caldari cattle in Motsu that only run against Guristas... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.11.17 09:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 17/11/2006 10:02:02 To be fair, kinetic will work great against serpentis too.
The problem I have with the setup given above is that unless you're using all T2 equipment--and have the very high skills to do so--you can't fit the ship very easily/well. And using the small rails is silly; isn't that what the Dual 150 med railgun is meant for? Otherwise why does it exist?
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the ability to mount cruiser-sized weapons on a ship that is a very large cruiser.
The latex-pants tight fitting coupled with the loss of the RoF bonus and the 30-40M pricetag makes this ship less attractive than a ferox; sure, we get +1 mid and +1 hislot, but if you can't really use them for much the Ferox is a much better option for half the isk.
At least restoring the RoF bonus would give us the ability to fit for all gank and minimal tank; at the moment it can't gank or tank.
----------------------------------------------- Vice Adm Vladimir Tinakin Logistics CO Hadean Drive Yards |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 10:32:00 -
[20]
OK, I'll be the first to admit I was expecting a swing of the nerf bat. The Drake and Hurricane were just too good.
However, I also think that losing a missile hardpoint _and_ removing the RoF bonus for kinetic is just too far in the other direction.
*shrug* at least I heard about this before I started BC 5 training.
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:40:00 -
[21]
Just fought a "new" drake on Sisi. Don#t know why you guys are *****ing. Test it first guys. It's stilla **** fine BC.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 11:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: MOS DEF Just fought a "new" drake on Sisi. Don#t know why you guys are *****ing. Test it first guys. It's stilla **** fine BC.
Mostly because everyone who's every flown the Caracal or Kestrel in PvP hates kinetic missile damage bonuses.
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MOS DEF
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.11.17 12:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: MOS DEF Just fought a "new" drake on Sisi. Don#t know why you guys are *****ing. Test it first guys. It's stilla **** fine BC.
Mostly because everyone who's every flown the Caracal or Kestrel in PvP hates kinetic missile damage bonuses.
Kinetic is at least a good dmg type. It could be EM ya know. If you come up againsrt somethign high kin tanked you have the option to switch to other dmg types - loose the dmg bonus - and still do great damage. That is something Amarrs can't do.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.17 13:00:00 -
[24]
Someone run the numbers of a Shield Tanked Launcher Curse + Drones + HAMS vs Drake :)
Or even a Cerb + HAMS vs Drake --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.17 16:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: MOS DEF Just fought a "new" drake on Sisi. Don#t know why you guys are *****ing. Test it first guys. It's stilla **** fine BC.
Mostly because everyone who's every flown the Caracal or Kestrel in PvP hates kinetic missile damage bonuses.
Kinetic is at least a good dmg type. It could be EM ya know. If you come up againsrt somethign high kin tanked you have the option to switch to other dmg types - loose the dmg bonus - and still do great damage. That is something Amarrs can't do.
It's more the irritation of why one arbitary missile type is more effective when fired from a Caracal. I mean, when minmatar switch damage types, then there's some stuff that does more than others - tradeoffs to be made that means one 'type' of ammo isn't automatically the best. As it is, missiles have one stat different between them, damagetype. And the way the caracal/drake/kestrel are suggests that what they really should be looking at is changing missiles so some do more damage, and others have better velocity, or explosion radius/velocity or something. Much like drones are at the moment in fact.
I think I might have to post that as an Idea actually.
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