I did explain the reasoning - you just have to read the text.

is your reasoning to justify this redundancy also in the text? because i didn't see it

A nidhoggur is 1-1.1 billion ISK.

A vargur is 950mil, we'll take that as a representative price of your T2 battleship.




Why bother?


You're going to be looking at what, 750 DPS from five fighters with no DDAs?

While you only get 475 out of a domi or a snake, you're getting that with no bastion downsides, and can easily double that once you add in missiles on the snake.

So, again, why bother?


And if you think CCP will ever put fighter bombers on anything smaller than a super, I have a bridge to sell you.

A nidhoggur is 1-1.1 billion ISK.

A vargur is 950mil, we'll take that as a representative price of your T2 battleship.




Why bother?


You're going to be looking at what, 750 DPS from five fighters with no DDAs?

While you only get 475 out of a domi or a snake, you're getting that with no bastion downsides, and can easily double that once you add in missiles on the snake.

So, again, why bother?


And if you think CCP will ever put fighter bombers on anything smaller than a super, I have a bridge to sell you.

The resist and HP bonuses heterodyne into a tank which is absolutely recockulous..

Funny thing is I am usually open minded to an idea that gave me a t2 rokh. I want it that bad. But.....not this bad lol.

Once we fill the power gap between sub caps and capitals we can then look to properly balancing capital hulls. In my opinion starting by vastly increasing build requirements of carriers more on the lines of a dreadnought. Then a 1 billion isk battleship hull compared to a 3 billion isk carrier/dread won't seem out of line. Ending with boosting capital ship power levels back up with an emphasis on their given roles. Carriers: logistics, dreads: damage/application, supers: mini-squadron, titans: cap superiority

Simply put, T2 BS hulls should be crossed with their corresponding racial Ewar as a secondary to their repair services.
Amarr: Tracking disruption
Caldari: ECM
Gallente: Sensor damps
Minmatar: Target painting

I'm actually not against the idea of a battleship-sized carrier. The trick would be that rather then limiting it to 5 fighters, I would limit it to 3 or something. I don't know the damage output, but the idea of flying a pocket carrier is, in concept, interesting. Like the idea that has floated around of a battleship that can mout Dreadnaught guns. Likely just 1 gun, or in this case a smaller number of fighters. bridging the damage gap, allowing it to do what the battlecrusers that mount Battlship guns can do. Put out obsene amounts of damage, but with less defence. a Glass Hammer if you will.

I don't think CCP is in a poisition to be adding new ship types at the moment. they are still hard core into Sov, structures and the T3 crusers.

I think we should do it the other way around. Balance the capitals first with the idea in mind that new ships could be added to see if there is even a gap that needs to be filled. We have to remember that any ship added that isn't classified as a capital will be allowed in high sec. This could lead to an imbalance in high sec forcing CCP to do more balancing passes to fix a problem that could have been avoided.

I don't believe this to be true. On one hand you have a BS sized ship with the same bonuses as a cruiser that is slower, easier to hit and more expensive, which will make most people just use cruisers. On the other you give them bonuses to ewar that are higher than cruisers making them borderline OP (if not crossing it).

Simply put, T2 BS hulls should be crossed with their corresponding racial Ewar as a secondary to their repair services.
Amarr: Tracking disruption
Caldari: ECM
Gallente: Sensor damps
Minmatar: Target painting

Bastion is a miniature siege modules, while I agree it can, for the purposes of smaller BS hulls, be giving a multi purpose rather than introducing a new "triage" type modules. Such that each T2 hull to be released will also be focused around use of this module to boost their respective roles. Typically involving improved range and application of the involved system with an increase to local tank in exchange for complete immobility and loss of remote assistance.

Balancing should always be done around PVP btw, never high sec PVE activities. And a tier of ships with a price tag around 1 billion a pop is not likely to ever make it on a high sec ganker's top 10 list of ships to use.

It is a battleship level hull. You cannot compare it to the damage/projection of a cruiser, see them be more efficient at that role then call it OP. Each hull type has benefits and drawbacks. There is a reason we have come to call this game "Cruisers Online" mobility creep combined with role variety within T2 cruiser hulls has been out of control since their release, and it has made most BS level ships obsolete.

I stopped reading when you said battleship can use fighter bombers
-1000 for the very thought of that

also here several other points that garner a big red No from me:
- bastion modules are specific to marauders, it should stay that way the same way no other hull can use siege/triage
- Super DPS logi, because logic and reasons
- 8 mediums and 6 lows? Get real
- failure to explain the point of this, or even what caused you to think of it
- ishukone hulls
- the post in general

the only thing i even liked about this post was the name "hydra" because then i could name it Heil

While I agree we need T2 BS hulls in this game I do not at all agree with what you have suggested here. One of the worst things CCP ever did was allow weapon/logistics systems to be used cross platform from their intended hulls. Bombers are super specific, fighters are carrier specific - this needs to stay with no more crossover than between those two hull types.

Simply put, T2 BS hulls should be crossed with their corresponding racial Ewar as a secondary to their repair services.
Amarr: Tracking disruption
Caldari: ECM
Gallente: Sensor damps
Minmatar: Target painting

I'm actually not against the idea of a battleship-sized carrier. The trick would be that rather then limiting it to 5 fighters, I would limit it to 3 or something. I don't know the damage output, but the idea of flying a pocket carrier is, in concept, interesting. Like the idea that has floated around of a battleship that can mout Dreadnaught guns. Likely just 1 gun, or in this case a smaller number of fighters. bridging the damage gap, allowing it to do what the battlecrusers that mount Battlship guns can do. Put out obsene amounts of damage, but with less defence. a Glass Hammer if you will.

I don't think CCP is in a poisition to be adding new ship types at the moment. they are still hard core into Sov, structures and the T3 crusers.

Won't have ridiculous EHP out of bastion. It can be capped out by neuts just as easily as any other sub cap BS can.

I forgot to strip out the fighter bomber part...my bad...will go back and edit.
bastion modules can be made more use of so that is a non-sequitor
Its not super dps (unless you consider 500-750 dps to be super as opposed to cruiser range)
:: yes it has logistics bonuses but very limited high slots (3-4 depending on the race and it can't get outside help - unlike the Nestor or other logistics cruisers

I was having a discussion with corp mates for a couple hours on what would make a good addition to T2 battleships and I started with the idea of filling a specific role that has yet to be filled in that arena. Marauders are halfway to dreads to I figured a CVE would be a good halfway to carriers.

It can't jump, refit or carry ships around. It isn't a mobile stuff hauler and won't hae ridiculous EHP out of bastion. It can be capped out by neuts just as easily as any other sub cap BS can. The idea that it is OP as a concept is based mainly in ignorance.

Yes 8 meds and 6 Lows with the 4 highs is still 1 less slot than the golem gets overall. you probably didn't notice that. Marauders get 19 slots and these CVE's would get 18.

Ishukone - becuase they haven't done a T2 battleship hull and they have the Eagle and Vulture I think as their other hulls. Rule of Cool mainly dominates but I would also accept a Sukuuvestaa skin :)

- post in general is your problem not mine; don't like it? don't reply.

I was having a discussion with corp mates for a couple hours on what would make a good addition to T2 battleships and I started with the idea of filling a specific role that has yet to be filled in that arena. Marauders are halfway to dreads to I figured a CVE would be a good halfway to carriers..

Why would you pay carrier price for a third of a carrier's damage?

a domi, rattler, hell even an Ishtar is a decent halfway to carrier. YOu are making them some magical beast never seen in the lower ranks. They aren't.

Drones and fighters are the same mechanics.

Run reppers in high slot, you got logi covered.


You are lacking what makes the carrier different. Jumping.....and fuel/stront management and cap management (well less so with fatigue, old days you worried a lot about cap recharge on your hops to gtfo faster on multihop runs, now you get your timeouts to make that happen lol). This is where caps get fun. Rest is SSDD.

basing an argument going well bastion is bad. bastion was ccp getting interest in marauders again. Somewhere between point A and B they were becoming less viable for use.

Pirate BS were making them look bad in pve, their supposed area of dominance. The loot mod bonuses marginalized by noctis. As imo (and many others) it is better to blow the crap out of missions full steam ahead and just whip out the noctis before the 2 hours up on the wrecks. And a strong fart could jam them, writing off gurista entirely for missions. ANd rng gives these out all over even once on a while.

Enter bastion. tank boosts for the min maxers (who then whined on DC's tank dies in bastion...as they run bare minimal tank). E-war immunity to not have 2 level 4 runners (one for the gurista rng give outs) for the I want one ship players And some range. Voila...a t2 mission running bs now worth its price tag again.

CCP didn't do bastion to take the game in new directions, they did it to have marauders not suck in a way that didn't have them shoot straight to wtfbbqpownage either. Flipside this and well insert any drone rant thread you want. Make it one involving sentry bonused ships. Or runs gecko's well. Since well...if you want remote control frigate (what a fighter is kind of) why not go for the remote control cruiser which is in game now.

There is no lack of interest in some drone boats the take away. there is no ship class to save really.

to use in high sec of course or micro gangs. You can still slap a micro-jump drive on it (but no cool-down bonus like the marauder).

It has its uses in being a better fleet ship than a nestor but without the exploration ability...more focused on combat and making use of fighters.

I'd fly it. Maybe you wouldn't. But that's your decision

This is far less than a carrier so I feel it appropriate to allow SOME dps while it is unable to be helped by the larger fleet. The reason I chose Bastion as a thing to continue with is because I like the mechanic. I like the idea that one can get big bonuses but at a big risk as well.

I get this. What I am wondering how this fills a gap. Its not prepping for carriers in any way over a current BS imo. Lacking anything to "prepare" for caps this becomes I want a ship to own in empire idea really. Want to prep for caps....train them on sisi is my suggestion if not comfortable running them on the real server at first.

it to me is just a really tanky drone boat. Which is not really needed. One of the bene;s of current drone BS's is well they can tank already. Rattlers main claim to fame is it can slap on one hell of a tank. Even with plain ole t2 fittings.

Or a tanky logi boat. In empire. Where even if the other side is honorable enough to not use neut logi, this beast will be something hard to kill. Where once we cut through all the bullcrap...we know empire dec bears tend to pick easy targets usually. If a corp decced fights back for a change but can't get the N+1 to pop the basi backing up a dec crew fleet.....how the hell is it going to get the N+1 to pop a "triaged" baby carrier, or a few of them.

Bigger question is should empire even become a N+1 fest to counter baby carriers. We can argue it was cap and super proliferation that ruined some of the fun aspects to 0.0. I am a paradox here....I am very cap capable, Even bothered to run t2 siege and triage. I also, oddly enough, am also in the cap and super blobs must burn crowd lol.


Not concerned about high slots, run reppers on a bs. This can be done already. Been a while since I flew scorpions in combat. last I did it was pre-tiericide when it had 2 ulility slots. Here is what my utilities were, armour and hull rr. 1 cap injection mixed in with ecm for recharge.

And....many was the time people were almost as happy I was there for ghetto RR as well as jamming. Here we can argue what "effective" repping is. Me I saw first hand being the only hull repper in the crew and quite a few people needing hull topped...I didn't need bonuses to be effective. When your choice is being in deep space, far from home and your hull close to if not smoking....a lone hull repper on a scorpion is a very much loved.

Not supported. You are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.

About the only role I could see these going into would be a crossover between logistics cruisers and black ops, not logi cruisers and maruaders.