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Asuka Smith
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
7
   |
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:44:00 -
[151] - Quote
Well lets see, the frigates are actually good so you're right some are worth flying, taranis or blaster ishkur being the ones. Thorax is bad but ill admit all the cruisers are bad, brutix sucks, talos sucks, megathron sucks although technically it isn't obsolete amore, hype super sucks, and deimos super sucks. |
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:09:00 -
[152] - Quote
Asuka Smith wrote:Well lets see, the frigates are actually good so you're right some are worth flying, taranis or blaster ishkur being the ones. Thorax is bad but ill admit all the cruisers are bad, brutix sucks, talos sucks, megathron sucks although technically it isn't obsolete amore, hype super sucks, and deimos super sucks.
All of those ships are useful in niche circumstances. The buff made them a bit more useful in those same limited circumstances - but did not expand the Gallente envelope much ( though rails are a bit better).
Honestly, the more we kick this around in this thread, I dont think they will, or should, change the Gallente roles much, if at all. They just need to make sure the gallente rule their envelope with absolute dominance. Either by reducing other races abilities inside scram range, or by increasing gallente damage inside scram range to the heretofore unknown FACEMELTING range.
The problem now is that although the other races may not have the best close in damage, it is good enough that their other benefits outweigh the slight disadvantage (for example scorch and barrage). IMHO, it needs to be so that if you get in optimals of an equal class similarly fit gal ship, you WILL lose. I dont think that has necessarily been the case - but the jury is still out on the recent changes.
Just my opinion. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
495
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:45:00 -
[153] - Quote
ALL FEAR THE EAGLE.
OBSERVE IT'S AWE-INSPIRING BLASTER RANGE WITH ITS TWO OPTIMAL BONUSES!
4.22 + 5km with CN AM.
Oh...well...um... 
Minmatar is overpowered. Did you know that the Claymore and Sleipnir have one slot more than the other command ships for no reason? Well, there is a reason. Because of Minmatar.
It's just another little which makes Minmatar easy-mode. |
Asuka Smith
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
8
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Posted - 2011.12.08 23:27:00 -
[154] - Quote
The question is what situation are blasters the best, and the answer is fighting a single target at 500 meters piloted by someone who has less sp than you. Any other situation they are the worst in fact. The dps in eft is only barely better than other weapons, and the drawbacks are enormous. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
188
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:ALL FEAR THE EAGLE. OBSERVE IT'S AWE-INSPIRING BLASTER RANGE WITH ITS TWO OPTIMAL BONUSES!4.22 + 5km with CN AM. Oh...well...um... Minmatar is overpowered. Did you know that the Claymore and Sleipnir have one slot more than the other command ships for no reason? Well, there is a reason. Because of Minmatar. It's just another little which makes Minmatar easy-mode.
Cyclone may have one more highslot than the other tier 1 BC's, but they also have the least turret slots, which is a little "meh" considering their only damage bonus is for turrets. The only advantage this extra high slot gives, really, is another neut.
OTOH, I will agree that the Sleip and Abso are quite OP compared to the NH/Astarte... imo, though, this has a lot more to do with the NH/Astarte than the Sleip and Abso. |
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.12.09 00:11:00 -
[156] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:
OTOH, I will agree that the Sleip and Abso are quite OP compared to the NH/Astarte...
Wondering why you put the Absolution in the same box as the Sleipnir. Makes no sense at all. |
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.12.09 00:12:00 -
[157] - Quote
F*ck the double post damn it! |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
36
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Posted - 2011.12.09 01:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Pretty bad story:
I'll stick with a Mongol and Viking analogy. 25 viking warriors on foot raid a village. Woman and children. Smashing and grabing. Stolen gold. Now! A single Mongol warrior returns to his village while this is going on. Mongol warrior has a bow and arrow, short sword and is riding a horse. He starts shooting arows @ Vikings and takes out 2. The rest start rushing after the lone Mongol warrior and he rides, taking the Viking raiders to more open ground (Hurricane).
In the chase he drops 5 more Vikinge his mobility. Vikings atempt to throw axe's but cannot throw it far enought to be effective and cannot out run a horse. Now, the Mongol has brought the Vikings to a space where the Mongol has a advantage. More space to use superior mobility. Mongol kills the Vikings still not smart enough to disengage and move to either a forest or back to the village where the Mongol warrior has less of an advantage. (Mongol = Hurricane or Harbinger versus Vikings = Brutix
Clearly, the concept behind Mongol warriors martial tactics seem superior. Although limited to open area's where slower combatant have no hope of escape.
How could the Vikings change this. Well, they could all get horses the next time they raid. Great! Problem solved. More speed. Above happens again. Mongol starts taking out 2 viking raiders again. He now cannot out run the Vikings and he will be caught sooner or later. He just needs to prolong being caught as long as possible while taking out Viking Raiders. Out of the 25 he has killed 10 and is now caught or in a situation where he cannot run. Oh well! Go down fighting and kill more Vikings while they rush you for the final blow. 2 more Vikings are dead.
(Mongol = heavy missile Drake versus any other battle-cruiser)
Clearly much has not change. The focking Mongle is still able to prolong a chase long enough to pretty generate the same results. Except he is caught and killed in the end, which means success I suppose and more gold for whom ever is left. Still that is a costly battle.
Throw a Viking in this same situation and he is very limited. Mongles raided his village. viking shows up. If he rushes one and he alerts the others. He is dead. If he manage to kill one. He could not hope to out run the rest if they see viking killing one of there dudes. Clearly he must stay in the village to limit advantage of mobility and range of Mongol or else dead. He is dead anyway so he tries to suicide another Mongol before he goes and fail dies to arrows or blob of Mongol swords.
Ight. 300 years l8er. There's some innovation. Thanks to a new handsome viking named proxyyyy. Takes 300 years because the rest of his community have identified the issue along time ago, but think Vikings with bow and arrows and horses is not manly enough. Proxyyy leads his merry band of new Vikings raiding villages. Mongol warrior comes out of nowhere and kills a Viking. Another viking sees this and shoots him dead with a arrow. Yey! More profit because some dumb-ass Viking let his guard down and failed. The rest of us are good. We roll out like woman with vaginas because we use pink bows and arrows and unicorns.
-man it feels good to be a viking. |
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2011.12.09 01:54:00 -
[159] - Quote
where is the falloff in this story? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
444
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:03:00 -
[160] - Quote
Grog Barrel wrote:where is the falloff in this story?
Ho adn at the beginning vikings were hurricanes then at the end became brutix 
Proxxy, stop smoking the carpet please 
Gime a neutrons diemost fit that works properly please
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Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.12.09 02:52:00 -
[161] - Quote
Emily Poast wrote:Yes, its over. If you continue to argue that there is no issue with Matar and/or projectiles after this, i just dont know what to say. Now, how do we buff the other races up to par, without having to nerf Matar into the Stone Age? EDIT: Just so my personal (and frankly unimportant) opinion is stated here: I have said many times: 1) we should play out the hybrid buff first, and 2) I DONT think Matar should be nerfed if it can be helped. I prefer buffs to balance. Anyway, Here are the cold, hard facts: CCP Diagoras wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:
Maybe we can get some current numbers from CCP? Weapons and ships used this year?
(Final blow is a bit tricky, as high RoF skews that a lot :-))
Final blows, weapon type, 2011 only, PVP only: Group: Projectile Weapon1,455,484 Energy Weapon392,605 Hybrid Weapon250,858 Combat Drone221,329 Heavy Missile203,896 Type: 425mm AutoCannon II388,602 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II207,378 200mm AutoCannon II163,613 150mm Light AutoCannon II144,349 720mm Howitzer Artillery II136,879 By ship type scoring the final blow: Hurricane378,864 Drake272,204 Sabre124,472 Dramiel118,128 Vagabond117,136 Cynabal113,905 Abaddon80,659 Tengu79,493 Harbinger71,286 Rifter67,721
So much for comparing different weapon systems and ships and then expecting to get similar results. IIRC, CCP went as far as to give the descriptions for each weapon system stating their pros and cons so if you are disappointed with the range of blasters, get what works for you and you should be fine.
If any weapon system could be used in any situation then I see no reason to create other weapon systems. Maybe for ***** and giggles?
one should be fine and to add that no one is nailed to a particular faction makes all your comparisons result into nothing but hilarity.
p.s. I'll admit that blasters were terribad before crucible mainly due to fitting issues and maybe close range performance on certain blaster platforms. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
153
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Posted - 2011.12.09 03:59:00 -
[162] - Quote
Thelron wrote:Fair enough, no, HAMs aren't going to evaporate before -50% ammo-using 425s. Lasers probably *are* going to want a crystal change if you're moving between 1k and 13k on them, and are you really suggesting someone using Heavy Neutrons have a 12km-wide "actually effective" band with AM given that hands them a 1.5km base optimal and 2.5km base falloff?
I deliberately said nothing about blasters at all. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 05:47:00 -
[163] - Quote
Grog Barrel wrote:Roosterton wrote:
OTOH, I will agree that the Sleip and Abso are quite OP compared to the NH/Astarte...
Wondering why you put the Absolution in the same box as the Sleipnir. Makes no sense at all.
Sleip is only really superior for active tanking, which collapses when 3+ targets start to shoot at you, at which point a buffer tank is far superior. Absos do the buffer tank + spank role considerably better than Sleips, imo. This also makes them more useful for gangs with logi support. |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 06:17:00 -
[164] - Quote
Actually. The Absolution has the better active defence. Even with low grade crystals on the Sleipnir. The Absolution is still superior. However, it does not come close in terms of damage output. but yeah! It takes High grade crystal's before the Sleipnir has a superior active tank.
The Claymore is better than both for direct combat solo. Mainly because of the it's immense tank. While out damaging a Absolution and even a Astarte because of damage selection. Cost to preformance there is no reason to buy a Sleipnir over a claymore solo, but it makes sense for fitting artillery and superior damage with logistics back up.
In fact it takes high grade crystals for any active shield tanking ship to out tank it's Armour counterpart. Been a long time myth that shield active tank is superior. It is in the sense the boost is instant. However you have to put alot into shield active ships (implants) to compete on sheer amount of damage mitigation of active armour ships. |
ElCholo
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
18
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Posted - 2011.12.09 06:47:00 -
[165] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:Actually. The Absolution has the better active defence. Even with low grade crystals on the Sleipnir. The Absolution is still superior. However, it does not come close in terms of damage output. but yeah! It takes High grade crystal's before the Sleipnir has a superior active tank.
The Claymore is better than both for direct combat solo. Mainly because of the it's immense tank. While out damaging a Absolution and even a Astarte because of damage selection. Cost to preformance there is no reason to buy a Sleipnir over a claymore solo, but it makes sense for fitting artillery and superior damage with logistics back up.
In fact it takes high grade crystals for any active shield tanking ship to out tank it's Armour counterpart. Been a long time myth that shield active tank is superior. It is in the sense the boost is instant. However you have to put alot into shield active ships (implants) to compete on sheer amount of damage mitigation of active armour ships.
I really have to wonder if you've ever flown a Claymore or/and a Sleipnir in combat. The Sleipnir is far and above the better PvP ship be it solo or in small gang warfare. I'm finding it hard to take anything you say seriously because of your claims otherwise.
I would love for you to show us this amazing Claymore that is so far better than either a Sleipnir or an Absolution in 1v1 or gang pvp. I'm starting to blelieve that you are simply trolling at this point.
Edit: Poor grammar. |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 11:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
See the problem with some pilots in this thread is. They're from northern coalition. So they're terrible @ this game and not worth the time. The question is so unbelievably ******** that it boggles the mind. Stick to blobbing Dual nano-Nightmares in the north (NCDOT has dropped Titans on me 4 times solo, which is 3 less than Russian related alliances) and leave pvp to those who know what they're talking about.
The level of retardation of that question. No wonder Lord is from this alliance of fails and rejects who think they're good. Not surprised he joined Raidon with this amount of retards around. Almost as bad as most PL pilots.
I tend to ignore your post anyway. Now I'll have to write you off completely, which is good because I need to preserve what sanity I have left.
-proxyyyy |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:18:00 -
[167] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:Actually. The Absolution has the better active defence. Even with low grade crystals on the Sleipnir. The Absolution is still superior. However, it does not come close in terms of damage output. but yeah! It takes High grade crystal's before the Sleipnir has a superior active tank.
The Claymore is better than both for direct combat solo. Mainly because of the it's immense tank. While out damaging a Absolution and even a Astarte because of damage selection. Cost to preformance there is no reason to buy a Sleipnir over a claymore solo, but it makes sense for fitting artillery and superior damage with logistics back up.
In fact it takes high grade crystals for any active shield tanking ship to out tank it's Armour counterpart. Been a long time myth that shield active tank is superior. It is in the sense the boost is instant. However you have to put alot into shield active ships (implants) to compete on sheer amount of damage mitigation of active armour ships.
Yeah, but once you do it is superior.
Slightly.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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