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No missile pass accompanying Jackdaw release?

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Lev Ironwill World Burning 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 19:23:57 - [1] - Quote Projectiles got tweaked with the Svipul release and lazors got tweaked with the Confessor, but CCP has ignored posts in the Jackdaw thread asking about similar treatment for missiles with the Jackdaw release. Do you guys think CCP is trying to make it a surprise when they release some missile tweaks? I don't. I think it's more likely that CCP is continuing to ignore missiles in favor of just about everything else, Fozzie sov and more Gallente features. Has anyone heard anything I haven't about this? If I'm wrong I would like to know it. Examples of missile tweaks could be: -Updating rockets -Torpedo range and/or application -Heavy Missiles. Just about everything with Heavy's could use a look -General missile speed with the possible exception of lights -Kinetic locks. Why are they still a thing? -Something new, like maybe an anti-capacitor missile similar to the Void bomb? 0 damage but drains some cap, scales with size. Just an off the wall idea that I, literally, thought up just now. Again, those are just some examples off the top of my head of things that could be addressed in a missile tweak, some might be big enough issues to justify being put off but the constant silence from CCP on the subject of missiles is disconcerting and only serves to reinforce the opinion of some that there is an institutional hate for missiles within the Devs. Thoughts? Opinions? Find something pertinent that negates this post? Please post. Have a nice day,
Valkin Mordirc 1078	Posted - 2015.05.31 19:57:40 - [2] - Quote I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.05.31 20:06:04 - [3] - Quote CCP still believe HMs were OP because of how much use they were getting. I think the real reason they saw so much use was that they were an accessible weapon system, along with the Drake being an accessible ship. I think it was unfair to nerf them. Never not fly what you can't afford to lose.
Lev Ironwill World Burning 1	Posted - 2015.05.31 22:39:13 - [4] - Quote Yes, T3's and drones (sentries/Ishtar) still need work, but that has been true for a long while and they still found the time to tweak projectiles and lazors while listening to player feedback. So I'm not buying that as a valid excuse, if that is their reasoning. As for "fine as they are" I remember there was a big Dev blog a while back, near the beginning of the year, where Rise explicitly stated that missiles needed work. This shows me that they are aware of issues and still have done nothing. It is possible that they haven't figured out how to make tweaks to missiles that wouldn't make them blatantly OP, but can they really be THAT incompetent to have not come up with a single tweak to mollify the community until bigger ones can be made? (Like the sentry changes maybe?) I think the most likely excuse is that missile ships still have to pay for the Drake and Tengu. The Jackdaw is being shipped with a handy dandy pre-nerf against oversized props built in and I believe that is both to address the issues that cropped up with oversized Svipuls/Confessors as well as to prevent any mini "100mn Tengu" fits. Whatever the reasoning, the silence and lack of responses troubles me and this kind of crap seems to be most prevalent when it comes to missile-related things. I could be wrong about that, I don't pay THAT much attention to the threads it's just my impression.
Dato Koppla Konvict Cartel The Asylum. 840	Posted - 2015.06.01 06:02:50 - [5] - Quote Rockets are in a pretty good place, it gets decent dps, decent application and excellent range (for a short ranged weapon system). Light missiles on the other, they are in a somewhat good place but the Garmur and Orthrus make them broken but that's mostly due to the ships themselves and links, it's a whole different can of worms so I won't go into that too much. HAMs aren't too terrible but definitely need looking at in terms of damage application, it's quite poor even on Cruisers. But heavies...ahh heavies, the double nerf (range + application) they took with the glory days of the Draek absolutely wrecked it. It's pretty much a laughing stock on any ship at this point with almost zero reason to ever fit it on anything. Rapid heavies aren't too bad mostly because battleships that use them have the utility slots to make it apply well to Cruisers as well as having good front loaded dps. Cruise missiles are also quite good with solid dps and ridiculous range even though the application is somewhat lacking. Torps definitely need looking at, the damage application is just too poor and even the range is pretty pathetic when you compare it to other short-range battleship weapons. TL;DR HAMs, Heavies and Torps direly need looking at. Rockets, Rapid Heavies and LMLs are fine. Garmur and Orthrus needs nerfing.
Traejun DiSanctis Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 146	Posted - 2015.06.01 06:39:02 - [6] - Quote Missiles are fine, for the most part. HML's are probably the biggest problem right now, but everything else is pretty much where it should be.
Mike Whiite Geuzen Inc 385	Posted - 2015.06.01 10:37:30 - [7] - Quote problem is, is that aside from the normal nerfs, CCP keeps making things faster, now AB's and MWD's are getting a speed boost, while the MWD signature is reduced. almost ever ship has become faster since the rebalance, damage application should be severely looked at. Maybe some modules, that will affect application at the cost of range , giving the missiles longer range with less application. and a module that does that the other way around. then giving short range missiles better application and less damage, and make a module that give more damage at the cost of application and one that does it the other way around. would need a complete rebalance of the missiles on it self, due to the limited number of slots available. though by making those modules, it gives player to adjust to the continues changes that this game has.
Janeway84 Def Squadron Pride Before Fall 167	Posted - 2015.06.01 11:09:13 - [8] - Quote Precisions need more speed, Proteus needs to be given back its tank since its crap now 1 vs 1 against gila. HML should get more dps and speed perhaps. Rockets are ok. Torps could use a tiny increase in range across the board. Would be great if missiles got their own tracking enhancer to get more range , either as a lowslot or midslot item. Not sure what would be the best, if they add that they also need a missile disruption ewar perhaps to counter their new op'ness.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1061	Posted - 2015.06.01 12:17:12 - [9] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: problem is, is that aside from the normal nerfs, CCP keeps making things faster, now AB's and MWD's are getting a speed boost, while the MWD signature is reduced. almost ever ship has become faster since the rebalance, damage application should be severely looked at. Maybe some modules, that will affect application at the cost of range , giving the missiles longer range with less application. and a module that does that the other way around. then giving short range missiles better application and less damage, and make a module that give more damage at the cost of application and one that does it the other way around. would need a complete rebalance of the missiles on it self, due to the limited number of slots available. though by making those modules, it gives player to adjust to the continues changes that this game has. Fuzzy only knows how to kite in pvp. He doesn't like brawling or things that promote it (brawling to some is 80+ archons with sentries deployed). Since he's been hired he's nerfed webs, reduced mwd sig blooms, sped up ships, reduced mass/improved agility on otheres, created the ishtard and is still progressively nudging the game toward the risk averse kiting meta. He loves armor hacs and thinks little of brawlers or missile boats. He's been pretty rough on parts of the game he isn't intimate with. (he got duped on mass/range in wh space). Overall I like that he's a decision maker and that he gets things done. He could however use a mentor to keep large groups from duping him. With the exception of the ishtard I like a really good 'bad change' as it creates some chaos and favors those who can adapt. Now that RLML and RHML are a thing I see any changes to normal heavies falling to the bottom of the pile. My reasoning is you can use RLML instead of heavies on cruiser/BC platforms and heavy missiles are now going to be balanced with RHML in mind. TL/DR Based on changes over the last few years HML II are for chumps and nobody cares - sorry??
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:32:59 - [10] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: problem is, is that aside from the normal nerfs, CCP keeps making things faster, now AB's and MWD's are getting a speed boost, while the MWD signature is reduced. almost ever ship has become faster since the rebalance, damage application should be severely looked at. Maybe some modules, that will affect application at the cost of range , giving the missiles longer range with less application. and a module that does that the other way around. then giving short range missiles better application and less damage, and make a module that give more damage at the cost of application and one that does it the other way around. would need a complete rebalance of the missiles on it self, due to the limited number of slots available. though by making those modules, it gives player to adjust to the continues changes that this game has. To be honest, I've always felt HMs and HAMs should be consolidated into a single weapon system, with rigs dictating its function. I mean, let's face it. HMs rig for application, HAMs rig for range. Where is the choice there? Never not fly what you can't afford to lose.

Traejun DiSanctis Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 146	Posted - 2015.06.01 19:55:05 - [11] - Quote Portiko wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: problem is, is that aside from the normal nerfs, CCP keeps making things faster, now AB's and MWD's are getting a speed boost, while the MWD signature is reduced. almost ever ship has become faster since the rebalance, damage application should be severely looked at. Maybe some modules, that will affect application at the cost of range , giving the missiles longer range with less application. and a module that does that the other way around. then giving short range missiles better application and less damage, and make a module that give more damage at the cost of application and one that does it the other way around. would need a complete rebalance of the missiles on it self, due to the limited number of slots available. though by making those modules, it gives player to adjust to the continues changes that this game has. To be honest, I've always felt HMs and HAMs should be consolidated into a single weapon system, with rigs dictating its function. I mean, let's face it. HMs rig for application, HAMs rig for range. Where is the choice there? You're presuming a lot of choice exists. Most ships have a single, perhaps 2, legitimate builds. Those builds dictate most of the fitting - including rigs. There can be some flexibility from ship to ship to suit the players' tastes/needs, but cookie cutters have been the order of the day for a long time. HMs and HAMs are fine as they are. They each serve their purpose and serve them at least moderately acceptably. Of the 2, the HM's appear the worse off. HAMs are actually pretty fun to use, but yes, range is a PITA. I'm not sure I rig for range even with HAMs for the most part, but that depends on what I'm doing. My Serpentis ratting HAM Tengu has no range rigs because the anom rats always spawn in the same general location - so I can just orbit a wreck and kill everything before it gets a chance to move away. Frigate can be challenging to take down, but I'm usually team-ratting anyway.
Forum Posts Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:19:03 - [12] - Quote Missiles should go the way of guns, the whole skill tree should be revamped, i.e. should be split into two types at every skill. The first category should cover rockets and lights, with separate specialization skills Second would cover HAM and heavy, with separate specialization skills Third would cover Torpedoes and Cruise, with separate specialization skills Rapids could be controlled by the next higher system like the "dual (x smaller gun)" gunnery weaps It might be homogenization but it would sure as hell make more sense to me. They could balance pass them when they did this.
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 1037	Posted - 2015.06.01 20:37:19 - [13] - Quote Does it seem weird to anyone that they promote kiting, but they murdered the Heavy missile Drake?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 393	Posted - 2015.06.01 21:32:18 - [14] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Does it seem weird to anyone that they promote kiting, but they murdered the Heavy missile Drake? You got that backwards. They murder/castrate the Drake and then promote kiting. Of course, I think CCP has it out for missile ships that try to be too relevant. I agree that the Jackdaw is coming out half-gimped to prevent it from having a chance at Drake or Tengu status without giving it anything to redeem it, at least in my eyes.
To mare Advanced Technology 405	Posted - 2015.06.01 22:57:44 - [15] - Quote why would they need to balance medium and large sizes for the release of a destroyer? be glad they overlooked the state of light missile on this release or you would have likely got a new nerf
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 394	Posted - 2015.06.01 23:18:27 - [16] - Quote To mare wrote: why would they need to balance medium and large sizes for the release of a destroyer? be glad they overlooked the state of light missile on this release or you would have likely got a new nerf "Hey everyone. We're making some tweaks to Pulse Lasers of all sizes in Rhea, as well as Scorch ammo." -Fozzie [url](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5248970#post5248970)[/url] An entire weapon and ammo type got tweaked for the release of a destroyer. Is it so much to ask for some positive attention towards missiles? As for lights and missile nerfs, at this point I wouldn't be that surprised if they decided to continue to nerf any kind of missile since it seems to be the only direction they can consistently tweak them.
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 10	Posted - 2015.06.02 04:21:30 - [17] - Quote To mare wrote: why would they need to balance medium and large sizes for the release of a destroyer? be glad they overlooked the state of light missile on this release or you would have likely got a new nerf You're just being grumpy. Never not fly what you can't afford to lose.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1328	Posted - 2015.06.02 09:49:25 - [18] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. Not holding my breath for that. They're tickling sentries with a feather instead of taking bats and chainsaws to the offending hulls instead. At this rate, my kids will be drawing their pension before ishtars are fixed.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1066	Posted - 2015.06.02 11:26:42 - [19] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Does it seem weird to anyone that they promote kiting, but they murdered the Heavy missile Drake? Not exactly an armor hac. It wasn't the right kind of kiting. To be fair they weren't exactly woo hoo this is fun kind of fleets. Fuzzy likes guns, guardians and tiny sig radii - you really can't stuff the drake into that box.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1066	Posted - 2015.06.02 11:38:03 - [20] - Quote afkalt wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. Not holding my breath for that. They're tickling sentries with a feather instead of taking bats and chainsaws to the offending hulls instead. At this rate, my kids will be drawing their pension before ishtars are fixed. Deep down they have come to terms with the ishtar being in good shape and properly blananced. They just can't come to terms with sentries being a BS only drone. Once they get their arms around that - the ishtar will return to normal and the great archon sentry fleets of soul crushing lag will be no more. I think it will sink in after the third ishtar tweak that you can't balance them until you take away the sentries. Be patient.

Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 10	Posted - 2015.06.02 12:26:10 - [21] - Quote afkalt wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. Not holding my breath for that. They're tickling sentries with a feather instead of taking bats and chainsaws to the offending hulls instead. At this rate, my kids will be drawing their pension before ishtars are fixed. CCP have dropped the sledgehammer approach and switched to little taps with the little hammer. They've failed to realise it takes more than hammers and dumb luck to sculpt something worthwhile. Never not fly what you can't afford to lose.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 411	Posted - 2015.06.02 12:42:11 - [22] - Quote Lev Ironwill wrote: Examples of missile tweaks could be: -Updating rockets -Torpedo range and/or application -Heavy Missiles. Just about everything with Heavy's could use a look -General missile speed with the possible exception of lights -Kinetic locks. Why are they still a thing? -Something new, like maybe an anti-capacitor missile similar to the Void bomb? 0 damage but drains some cap, scales with size. Just an off the wall idea that I, literally, thought up just now. As I recall the changes to lasers and projectiles had negligable effect on most T2 fits but made T1 builds a little more viable - improving access to the class (which is exactly what you would expect with a "newbie-friendly" T3). They were applied across the board because they were consistent across the board. The equivalent would be something like "all short-range missile systems have had their explosion radius reduced by 5% and the Precision munitions... have remained exactly the same" except that people aren't saying that it's impossible to fly a Crow or Hookbill (for example) without Precisions in the same way as they do for the Slicer and Scorch. Torp Range/Application: Torps are already a very long ranged short-range/high-damage weapon system - perhaps that range should be reduced? Application on Torps against moving targets is lackluster but to keep things vaguely balanced range or damage would have to go to compensate. Heavy Missiles: Heavies were hit a little too hard - but they were hidieously overpowered before. The question is whether their range is currently OK (which would suggest an improvement in damage and/or application), whether their damage/application is currently OK (if so, they could handle more range). Perhaps there's a third way but it would have to be approached exceedingly carefully... General missile speed: Delayed damage again? Kinetic locks: They aren't a thing. You are entirely free to use non-kinetic missiles on any ship. Your choice has consequences similar to those of an Abaddon fitting Rails except that you can just switch out ammo... Kinetic ship bonuses, even as strong as those on the Drake do not prevent you from switching to EM if you think (or know) you'll do more damage that way; besides which Kinetic is a useful, generalist damage type and some Caldari ships get huge amounts of it. Something new??? Cruise missile void bombs? A Neut you can apply from 200km and uses no capacitor? Seriously?
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 300	Posted - 2015.06.02 13:26:44 - [23] - Quote I like kinetic only locks and i think its stupid that they are going away, makes the fitting meta more boring as omni is always best.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 556	Posted - 2015.06.04 08:20:16 - [24] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. Heavies need more volley. Torps could get some more range, just a tiny bit. They're meant for engaging other battleships. Kinetic lock is... situational. Caldari ships getting thermal/kinetic across the board where damage locks exist would be nice. Honestly there really is no easy answer to the missile question. It's probably sitting in the 'too hard basket'. I do agree that sentry drones need more attention (even though contextually heavy drones are 30% more powerful) Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1336	Posted - 2015.06.04 09:23:42 - [25] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Valkin Mordirc wrote: I think CCP Probably thinks either A. Missiles are fine as they are, Which is unlikely. B. They are looking into but the Sentry/Ishtar took priority and rightfully so, Or C. They don't know how to fix it without making it OP HML, Torps and the Kin lock need to be looked at but personally I'd rather T3 and Sentries be taken care of first. Heavies need more volley. Torps could get some more range, just a tiny bit. They're meant for engaging other battleships. Kinetic lock is... situational. Caldari ships getting thermal/kinetic across the board where damage locks exist would be nice. Honestly there really is no easy answer to the missile question. It's probably sitting in the 'too hard basket'. I do agree that sentry drones need more attention (even though contextually heavy drones are 30% more powerful) Kinetic and EM would be nicer - It's also what the augmented caldari drones get so there is precedent. Thus actually making selectable damage a slightly better thing. Half the races are stacked against therm/kin out the box
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 13	Posted - 2015.06.04 09:33:36 - [26] - Quote One idea I've thought of is having missiles as a secondary weapon system for advanced pilots. All boats become gunboats and missile boats become gunboats with one or two extremely powerful launchers, used as very OP bonus weapons.
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 556	Posted - 2015.06.04 10:27:44 - [27] - Quote Portiko wrote: used as very OP bonus weapons. Yes because that would prove anything. In to the trash it goes. Quote: Kinetic and EM would be nicer - It's also what the augmented caldari drones get so there is precedent. Thus actually making selectable damage a slightly better thing. Half the races are stacked against therm/kin out the box I've not found any problems with the new guristas ships. Most common shield builds leave a thermal dump stat and many passive armour builds still don't have great kinetic resists. I think thermal/kinetic proves to be very useful while being relatively easy to stack against. Of course missile ships would still get to switch to other damage types. As far as the drones are concerned isn't that just because they're based on rogue drones? They don't really conform to anything. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 685	Posted - 2015.06.04 13:31:28 - [28] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: Heavy Missiles: Heavies were hit a little too hard - ... I agree Jacob Holland wrote: but they were hidieously overpowered before... I disagree. What you have to keep in mind is that missiles are the only weapon system where you can decrease the maximum range by flying from them. And the damage isn't instant like on guns or sentries - it has to go there first and can be negated by a medium smartbomb but since nobody uses them because people are in dire need of that IWIN mod to mask their incompetence. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 290	Posted - 2015.06.04 14:27:46 - [29] - Quote Heavy missiles need more damage IMO. The difference between HAM and HML alpha is not much. Maybe a mild tweaking to application. The problem with buffing heavy missiles is you buff RHML too. That is going to be a huge obstacle in balancing that weapon system. If you buff the launcher to increase RoF, then it just becomes a long range HAM launcher with bad application. Not sure how to tackle heavies without making RHML OP. Unless we buff HM damage/application and then nerf RHML. Maybe remove 3-5 missiles from the clip? Overall clip damage would be the same with better application. Id also like to see TP % bonus increased to be useful on anyship, not just golem, belli and huginn/rapier. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1338	Posted - 2015.06.04 14:39:08 - [30] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: As far as the drones are concerned isn't that just because they're based on rogue drones? They don't really conform to anything. [edit] just taking a look at the augmented drones they follow the damage pattern of their racial origin ie amarr = em/thermal and minmatar = kin/exp Exactly, it's only caldari that are the outliers. One would have expected kin/therm to match hybrids...but they didn't. Kin/therm is ok, but I'd like to see it switched up a little all the same

Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 306	Posted - 2015.06.04 17:36:29 - [31] - Quote a long while back ccp nerfed missiles to combat the drake vs tengu fleets because tengus were getting something like 100kms with heavies from what ive heard. because of the nerf ive had to quit flying Dark Angel my Nighthawk and then they chaged her body into a fricking drake. I miss my 70km heavies and 80 km t1 torps "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2015.06.04 17:57:11 - [32] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Id also like to see TP % bonus increased to be useful on anyship, not just golem, belli and huginn/rapier. Need to have stronger TP bonus! A max boosted, bonused, linked meta 9 TP have 60,5+90km range with 99.86625% Sig radius bonus (heated) A max boosted, bonused, linked meta 9 web (True Sansha) have 104.9km optimal and -55% speed bonus (heated), Fed Navy have 97.9km heated range and -60% speed T2 max boosted, bonused, linkted web have 69.9km optimal and -60% speed bonus (heated) Unheated numbers would be 60.5+90km TP with 83.221875% signature (Domination TP), 75.65625% signature (T2) While web get -55% speed at 80.7km (TS), -60% speed at 75.3km(FN) and -60% at 53.8km (T2) A single web will ALWAYS do more for tracking than any TP, the worst web give -50% speed and you would need +100% signature to make up for that (can not get a TP to do that). While web can still reach out to almost 100km, or if you just use T2 web its still longer optimal than a TP with a much stronger bonus. We need some extreme TP bonus like the Vindi get for web, 1000% signature (equal to -90% speed for tracking) would never be accpted but maybe 2-300% should be doable EDIT: my link pilot didnt use implant for the numbers, updated :)
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 15	Posted - 2015.06.04 18:35:41 - [33] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: Portiko wrote: used as very OP bonus weapons. Yes because that would prove anything. In to the trash it goes. Into the trash you go unless you can feasibly challenge my idea, which you can't. Get in the trash.
stoicfaux 5800	Posted - 2015.06.04 19:08:58 - [34] - Quote How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats? Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Dato Koppla Konvict Cartel The Asylum. 848	Posted - 2015.06.04 23:09:25 - [35] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats? In my experience, very rarely. The few ships I've seen that have fitted rigors somewhat regularly are RHML Phoons and Ravens in FW lowssec. That's pretty much it really, smaller ships don't usually have the spare utility slots to have the luxury of fitting rigors/flares.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 296	Posted - 2015.06.04 23:38:24 - [36] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats? I use them on a few different ships. Use em on my bellicose and RHML phoon. RHML missile phoon with TP, x2 webs and a rigor obliterates everything except maybe other BS. Killed quite a few 10mn ab t3ds with it too. Also able to 2-3 shot cocky slicers and tristan pilots that try and do fly bys. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 1459	Posted - 2015.06.05 07:21:10 - [37] - Quote At least missiles are boostable with rigs AND implants not as much as guns are ... but they have better options than drones Surgical Strike SS-90x -- There is no equivalent of this for either missiles or drones Now show me in the database the Rig/Implant that boosts my hobgoblin or hammerhead or ogre Missiles are in a much better position within the game than drones Yes CCP hate missiles but they hate drones more
Vibiana Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 15	Posted - 2015.06.05 09:26:44 - [38] - Quote Lol, drones are the meta for a long now. Ishtars online. Domi blobs. Gurista 300%. Even in lowsec most common ships are droneboats.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 400	Posted - 2015.06.05 19:43:15 - [39] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: How often do people use Rigor or Flare rigs on PvP missile boats? Depends on the ship and purpose of the fit, but I would say fairly regularly in my experience. It's not as common as with PvE, but in my experience a respectable percentage of PvP missile boats will have a Rigor (typically better than Flare) fitted.
stoicfaux 5815	Posted - 2015.06.05 20:07:04 - [40] - Quote On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi. Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 401	Posted - 2015.06.05 21:50:05 - [41] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi. Scripts is likely to mean an active mod, which likely means a mid slot, which almost certainly means a Phoenix sized nerf bat is already being swung at missiles. It's a good thing missile ships have plenty of extra lows and mids to recoup the lost damage they'll suffer for the great honor of almost not sucking as a whole.
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.06.05 23:36:40 - [42] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: stoicfaux wrote: On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi. Scripts is likely to mean an active mod, which likely means a mid slot, which almost certainly means a Phoenix sized nerf bat is already being swung at missiles. It's a good thing missile ships have plenty of extra lows and mids to recoup the lost damage they'll suffer for the great honor of almost not sucking as a whole. You're over-reacting. It's an interesting screenshot but there has been no official dev comment about it afaik. It does suggest that devs might be thinking about rebalancing missiles, but that's all it suggests.
Paranoid Loyd 5670	Posted - 2015.06.05 23:40:49 - [43] - Quote Portiko wrote: You're over-reacting. Obligatory: You must be new around here. (Yes, I know you are new around here) "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
HELLBOUNDMAN Engineering Without Permits 199	Posted - 2015.06.06 00:16:17 - [44] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: stoicfaux wrote: On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi. Scripts is likely to mean an active mod, which likely means a mid slot, which almost certainly means a Phoenix sized nerf bat is already being swung at missiles. It's a good thing missile ships have plenty of extra lows and mids to recoup the lost damage they'll suffer for the great honor of almost not sucking as a whole. I'm wondering if the modules/scripts will make target painters useless, thus giving the Golem (and other TP bonuses ships) a worthless bonus... Other thoughts. 1) Wasn't it the Tengu with massive tank and over 900 dps at 100km the main reason HMLs got nerfed? 2) I just want to be able to hit a target without having to wait a year, only to see it fly away before they impact. 3) Has anyone else noticed their launchers firings and nothing happening. I swear that keep seeing volleys go off and no damage being done... Mind you this is in controlled situations against NPCs, but it only seems to happen when I haven't been watching my launcher load count...
Caldari 5 D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative. 413	Posted - 2015.06.06 00:37:18 - [45] - Quote Portiko wrote: scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: stoicfaux wrote: On a related note, Missile Guidance Enhancer (and Computer w/Scripts) placeholder on Sisi. Scripts is likely to mean an active mod, which likely means a mid slot, which almost certainly means a Phoenix sized nerf bat is already being swung at missiles. It's a good thing missile ships have plenty of extra lows and mids to recoup the lost damage they'll suffer for the great honor of almost not sucking as a whole. You're over-reacting. It's an interesting screenshot but there has been no official dev comment about it afaik. It does suggest that devs might be thinking about rebalancing missiles, but that's all it suggests. Yes, nothing official, Yet, but it seems that something is coming, as this chat log from the EVEDownUnder channel implies. Quote: n++[ 2015.06.05 09:59:37 ] Caldari 5 > CCP Larrikin any comment on the things found on SiSi? Missile Guidance Enhancers? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=428099&find=unread n++[ 2015.06.05 10:00:45 ] CCP Larrikin > Shhhhhhhhhhhh, its a seekrit! =) n++[ 2015.06.05 10:01:15 ] Caldari 5 > sorry, already created a thread on F&ID n++[ 2015.06.05 10:01:46 ] Caldari 5 > people are already speculating n++[ 2015.06.05 10:01:50 ] Revileushin Eyri > just when i thought garmurs couldnt be more annoying n++[ 2015.06.05 10:02:11 ] IbanezLaney > they might do something dumb like make missiles be effected by TDs n++[ 2015.06.05 10:02:17 ] IbanezLaney > so wait and see n++[ 2015.06.05 10:02:49 ] Mara Rinn > and don't foget nerfing the actual module so you have to have a full rack of guidance modules to get back to the pre-nerf capability n++[ 2015.06.05 10:02:57 ] Winthorp > The Phoenix will rise to blap them all n++[ 2015.06.05 10:03:18 ] IbanezLaney > ^ n++[ 2015.06.05 10:03:19 ] IbanezLaney > lol n++[ 2015.06.05 10:03:45 ] D3ATHSTAR > there are no secrets n++[ 2015.06.05 10:05:02 ] CCP Larrikin > wait...wot? n++[ 2015.06.05 10:05:25 ] thinduke > shhh n++[ 2015.06.05 10:05:46 ] Caldari 5 > any idea which team is working on it, and hence which dev to prod for more info? n++[ 2015.06.05 10:08:17 ] CCP Larrikin > There will be a devpost or blog released with a bunch of details about it (and some other stuff) n++[ 2015.06.05 10:08:27 ] Caldari 5 > ok, groovy
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Totally Abstract O X I D E 403	Posted - 2015.06.06 01:34:08 - [46] - Quote And other stuff? Coolio
Portiko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.06.06 10:04:52 - [47] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Portiko wrote: You're over-reacting. Obligatory: You must be new around here. (Yes, I know you are new around here) It's that obvious, hm...
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 6686	Posted - 2015.06.08 19:13:28 - [48] - Quote Portiko wrote: Mike Whiite wrote: problem is, is that aside from the normal nerfs, CCP keeps making things faster, now AB's and MWD's are getting a speed boost, while the MWD signature is reduced. almost ever ship has become faster since the rebalance, damage application should be severely looked at. Maybe some modules, that will affect application at the cost of range , giving the missiles longer range with less application. and a module that does that the other way around. then giving short range missiles better application and less damage, and make a module that give more damage at the cost of application and one that does it the other way around. would need a complete rebalance of the missiles on it self, due to the limited number of slots available. though by making those modules, it gives player to adjust to the continues changes that this game has. To be honest, I've always felt HMs and HAMs should be consolidated into a single weapon system, with rigs dictating its function. I mean, let's face it. HMs rig for application, HAMs rig for range. Where is the choice there? Oh how great it would be to have "scripted bays". Back during the threadnaught regarding the RLML nerf and the initial 40 second reload (Evidently Fozzie don't want his kiting style beaten perhaps?) players were suggesting that maybe a missile bay could be scripted, some for high capacity but longer reload, others for low capacity but shorter reload, and other such measures. Being able to script a bay for range or damage in addition to the rigging options already existing for missile usage would be a greater move towards flexibility and therefore creativity. If missile capabilities are to be relegated to some mid slot script module this will be pretty much the end of Caldari or any ships that have shield tanking bonus and can field missiles. It's enough of a laughing stock to fly a drake now, it'll be even worse flying an armor-tanking drake. I would hope they get a handle on this and let us script the bays themselves and avoid having to use up mid-slots for the very ships that have missile slots AND shield tank. Otherwise it's like "Hey this ship has bonuses for missiles and shield mods, but you can't use both". And that would be kind of dumb. Bring back DEEEEP Space!


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