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Algorithm 6
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Posted - 2006.11.18 11:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Algorithm 6 on 18/11/2006 11:55:43
Update: Oops, this was intended as a response to the Short Term Load thread...
My character is primarily a jump-cloned trader, with a little light manufacturing added. On a typical day I plan EVE, I'm in or around about 6 regions.
Unfortunately, I'm generally leveraged to the hilt. That is, if I have any cash, it's normally invested in various buy orders, stock in various stations and so on, all over the place.
So liquidity is an issue for me.
From time to time I spot absolutely amazing possible deals.
For example, take this week's dumping of Zydrine on the Jita markets. There's been huge potential for grabbing large chunks cheaply and shipping it immediately to other regions with standing buy orders.
I see deals like this about once or twice a month.
What I'd be interested in is a way to borrow the sort of money you are talking about (100-200 million) on extremely short terms. I'm talking a few hours.
Today I jumped on the Zydrine sale and made about 10% profit in 10 minutes. But I only had the cash I had immediately to hand, so that was only 10% of 10 million isk. 30 mintutes later the opportunity went away.
I'm curious if you are interested in investing in short term deals like this. It would be limited to basic minerals and such, only things that I can't get wiped out on, and that I can cover any losses for. So no investing in BPOs or anything other than bulk commodities.
The key for me is I wouldn't want to take your money until the moment the deal was available, and I wouldn't want to hold it for very long.
Before I bother to submit a proposal, your general thoughts?
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Elvarien
Caldari
The Night's Watch
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.18 13:37:00 -
[2]
if you have a method of putting trust in people[letting them think they will get their money+small percentage] back when your done you could have a deal going on like ... hand someone item X with the value you want to loan to be returned against the actual isk when your done or something similar.
>----
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.18 14:02:00 -
[3]
My thoughts, in this regard, is simply being an information broker. Provide someone the details of deals that you find. Let them enact them but with you getting a finder's fee cut. It leaves you without the risk, doesn't require any extensive trust relationship to perform, and lets you build up a good name as someone with some brains and credibillity.
As a thought.
Still screwing the dictionary, baby. One long word at a time!
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:40:00 -
[4]
Kali should fix this with contracts.
The problem right now is that the interest rate in EVE should be effectively infinite since the risk involved in loaning anyone money is basically infinite (*cough*EIB*cough*).
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Jameroz
Independent Frontiers
Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.20 02:25:00 -
[5]
If you have stuff worth something in stations you can use them as collateral when Revelations (Kali) comes. Especially owners of expensive BPOs wouldn't have much problem getting loans. 
I guess there are those rich people that can just give 100M away... good luck finding one before Kali comes. 
__________
Jameroz
Independent Frontiers is recruiting |
Jan Skywalker
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Posted - 2006.11.21 14:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jan Skywalker on 21/11/2006 14:29:27
...
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JdJinator
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Posted - 2006.11.21 14:30:00 -
[7]
I can and I would if I trust you. But I can only trust corp
members on such deals. *hint *hint Contact me ingame if interested.
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Zimroel
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Posted - 2006.11.24 08:05:00 -
[8]
Provided you can provide collateral I'd have no problems with giving short terms. BUT there are a few catches to it:
1. The collateral would need to be easily tradable items with a clear value. Minerals would work best for me personally - if you do a runner I can just send a freighter over for them as i trade +use minerals anyway. Other people may have different collateral requirements - but I can't see anyone who doesn't know you offering a loan without collateral.
2. Collateral would need to be located in accessible high-sec. No way I'd accept low-sec minerals at high-sec prices as collateral for obvious reasons.
3. The interest would need to be enough to be worth the bother. If the loan was for a day or less than i'd guess an interest rate somewhere in the 2%-5% range would be appropriate. With the hassle involved in arrnaging details and doing 2 escrows (1 for the loan, 1 for the repayment with interest) I can't seen any way I'd be bothered unless I was making 5 mill+. Anyone with ISK to invest has obviously already worked out how to make profit - and time is money. So I'd assume anyone offering loans wouldn't be bothering with small amounts.
Given those three points I (and I'm sure others) would have no problems with short-term loans. The usual bug-bear will, of course, rear its ugly head : how do you come up with collateral?
For short-term loans this isn't the issue that it is for longer-term ones. If you have stick sitting at a station use that. Otherwise you can just cancel sell orders, use it as collateral then redo the order afterwards. Losing out on whatever tiny broker fee you pay isn't a bad deal. Depending on skills you lose maybe 0.5% of the value of the collateral by paying broker fee twice - but when you're dealing with an opportunity that offers 10% profit that still leaves 9.5% profit (less whatever interest is agreed).
Incidentally, if you have lots of cash in buy orders then unless those orders are GUARANTEED to make you a better return that the opportunity you just noticed then why don't you just cancel them? Can't see the sense in leaving a buy order running which MIGHT make you money if you see an immedaite openign which will make you 10% profit in no time. Make the 10% profit then redo the buy orders and you just trousered 9% or so profit.
I'd take collateral at similar prices to what I'll actually pay for bulk minerals -so 1.95 for trit, 4.0 for pye etc. As I'll actually buy freighter-sized loads of minerals at those prices there is no risk for me - and hence I don't need to charge exorbitant interest provided the loan IS strictly short-term.
If you need a short-term loan (i.e. one whose duration is in hours not days) on these sort of terms feel free to contact me. My liquidity varies - but I always have eough cash on hand to loan a few hundred million.
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Algorithm 6
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Posted - 2006.11.25 11:57:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Shar Tegral
My thoughts, in this regard, is simply being an information broker. Provide someone the details of deals that you find. Let them enact them but with you getting a finder's fee cut. It leaves you without the risk, doesn't require any extensive trust relationship to perform, and lets you build up a good name as someone with some brains and credibillity.
As a thought.
The main downside to this is that the best deals you have to jump on EXTREMELY quickly. The really good ones don't last very long at all.
I have 2 or 3 corpmates I can sometimes get a few hundred million from, but it requires that they be online and willing to do work, AND be in the same region as the opportunity is.
Which rarely works very well...
It's much more realistic to get a simple wire transfer of cash and take the opportunity myself, since I'm in the area anyway. |
Algorithm 6
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Posted - 2006.11.25 12:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zimroel
Provided you can provide collateral I'd have no problems with giving short terms. BUT there are a few catches to it:
1. The collateral would need to be easily tradable items with a clear value. Minerals would work best for me personally - if you do a runner I can just send a freighter over for them as i trade +use minerals anyway. Other people may have different collateral requirements - but I can't see anyone who doesn't know you offering a loan without collateral.
2. Collateral would need to be located in accessible high-sec. No way I'd accept low-sec minerals at high-sec prices as collateral for obvious reasons.
3. The interest would need to be enough to be worth the bother. If the loan was for a day or less than i'd guess an interest rate somewhere in the 2%-5% range would be appropriate. With the hassle involved in arrnaging details and doing 2 escrows (1 for the loan, 1 for the repayment with interest) I can't seen any way I'd be bothered unless I was making 5 mill+. Anyone with ISK to invest has obviously already worked out how to make profit - and time is money. So I'd assume anyone offering loans wouldn't be bothering with small amounts.
That actually sounds quite reasonable. I generally have large chunks of cash tied up in mineral investments (mex, nocx, whatever is changing fast in price). Two escrows at buy prices is just fine.
I'll contact you in-game at some point.
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Daemon Jax
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Posted - 2006.11.26 23:46:00 -
[11]
I've been in the same situation before, and I just asked corp members for loans. Of course, my margins were significantly better than 10% :D I offered 100% interest for short term loans.
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Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.27 02:26:00 -
[12]
Contracts should help you out with this. Just 3 or so days to go :)
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Zimroel
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Posted - 2006.11.27 18:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Algorithm 6
Originally by: Zimroel
Provided you can provide collateral I'd have no problems with giving short terms. BUT there are a few catches to it:
1. The collateral would need to be easily tradable items with a clear value. Minerals would work best for me personally - if you do a runner I can just send a freighter over for them as i trade +use minerals anyway. Other people may have different collateral requirements - but I can't see anyone who doesn't know you offering a loan without collateral.
2. Collateral would need to be located in accessible high-sec. No way I'd accept low-sec minerals at high-sec prices as collateral for obvious reasons.
3. The interest would need to be enough to be worth the bother. If the loan was for a day or less than i'd guess an interest rate somewhere in the 2%-5% range would be appropriate. With the hassle involved in arrnaging details and doing 2 escrows (1 for the loan, 1 for the repayment with interest) I can't seen any way I'd be bothered unless I was making 5 mill+. Anyone with ISK to invest has obviously already worked out how to make profit - and time is money. So I'd assume anyone offering loans wouldn't be bothering with small amounts.
That actually sounds quite reasonable. I generally have large chunks of cash tied up in mineral investments (mex, nocx, whatever is changing fast in price). Two escrows at buy prices is just fine.
I'll contact you in-game at some point.
You should be aware that for about 10 hours after the server comes back up i'll be totally cash-broke myself. Soon as I sell a few of the new bs/bc I'll be liquid enough to give loans again.
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