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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
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Posted - 2011.12.06 19:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
Your implants can be a very important part of your strategy/fit. Yet the actual mechanics of how you save your or lose your pod are almost completely out of a players control. I really think this is a weak point of the game that ccp should work on.
Either make the game work so players can get their pod out or they can't. But make the game actually work, and work reliably.
Right now you are supposed to spam warp because that is how you get your pod out. Its just that it is a crap shoot whether it will work or not.
Yet CCP even put more emphasis on this broken aspect of the game by showing implants. I know players wanted it so I don't blame them. But they should make this aspect of the game work reliably.
The problem with client side lag started with incarna it's not new to this release. It may be worse now I am not sure.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
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Posted - 2011.12.06 20:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:Cearain wrote:When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
Your implants can be a very important part of your strategy/fit. Yet the actual mechanics of how you save your or lose your pod are almost completely out of a players control. I really think this is a weak point of the game that ccp should work on.
Either make the game work so players can get their pod out or they can't. But make the game actually work, and work reliably.
Right now you are supposed to spam warp because that is how you get your pod out. Its just that it is a crap shoot whether it will work or not.
Yet CCP even put more emphasis on this broken aspect of the game by showing implants. I know players wanted it so I don't blame them. But they should make this aspect of the game work reliably.
The problem with client side lag started with incarna it's not new to this release. It may be worse now I am not sure. I'm sorry wich part of after your ship blows up, you are granted a 2nd chance to run away before truly die and be penalized (possible Sp loss/ buy a new clone) The fact ppl was using a fairly odd/tricky mechanic to get an almost insta warp again before they could even get locked. TBH if you await until your ship explode and then after the pod shows you warp the enemy only can catch you with faster than 1x sec lock tacklers or with Warp bubbles. (assuming having a decent Isp connection and not lagging badly. TL;DR complain about not be able to use an insta warp when ship explode it's like complain about not be able to instawarp with any kind of ship after undock/use stargate. the only reason ppl ignored this with pods it's just because the pod has been ignored as something valuable aside the little grief/nuissance of get a new clone.
You still don't get it.
We should either be able to instawarp or we shouldn't.
I don't care what they pick. But either way the mechanic should work reliably. It shouldn't be entirely dependant on your computer hardware/client lag or internet connection.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
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Posted - 2011.12.06 21:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then... See the disclaimer above. All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved. I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this. Then it is settled. For the next expansion CCP should fix the internet. No more excuses CCP!!! /me cracks whip
Or not make it so their game mechanics are not so entirely reliant upon the connection quality.
For example in ship versus ship combat the connection might have some small impact, but its really minor. But when it comes to losing pods in high or low sec its almost always completely dependant on the internet or client lag.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
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Posted - 2011.12.07 15:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Almost everyone in this thread didn't get what the OP was talking about. Or so I think. What happened was that the warp drive was supposedly active but the pod did not warp. Like I described in my own post:
If only there was just one problem with warping your pod out eve would be a much better game. I think the point is there are so many glitches with this aspect of the game its just a complete crap shoot.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 15:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Near Death wrote:I were once told by a GM when i petitioned something along the lines of #0's problems.
Insta-warping is not a feature of the game. It is a bug. You are supposed to be in a 30 second stasis period (atleast according to this GM) after your ship is shot. I ofcourse called bullsh!t on this and didn't care to take this further.
Anyway, this was an official response to a petition were I was unable to warp away after getting my ship shot to atoms.
This combined with the input from the other gm makes it sound like we are exploiting a bug to spam warp when you are about to lose your ship in order to get your pod out.
What is going on ccp is this exploiting a bug? Are we supposed to wait out the session timer before we warp our pod out? Why is the pod following the warp command that we actually gave our ship not the pod?
Is time dilation effecting this mechanic?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
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Posted - 2011.12.08 17:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Two times in a row i didn't get podded by thrashers, after they popped my ship.
Odd. I wonder what you guys, who died, are doing wrong.
Only two times out of plenty it happened that the pods warped out before i had them pointed.
Odd. I wonder what the others, who i podded, were doing wrong.
*snickers* xD
That's the thing they may not have done anything wrong. If you spam warp whether you are podded or not has nothing to do with how you play the game. It has to do with things outside your (or your opponents) control. Like client and internet lag.
If the game worked reliably then there wouldn't be an issue. But it doesn't. Both sides can play the game exactly the same way and sometimes you can warp out sometimes you can't.
IMO that is a flaw in the game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
95
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:
I think that GM message has been misinterpreted or taken out of context. After your ship is destroyed you go into a session change, namely moving from your ship to your pod. This means that you cannot jump, dock, or go through any other session change for 30 seconds (which is now 20 seconds). It is certainly not an exploit to spam the warp button.
Time dilation should not affect it.
And your pod following the command you gave your ship is most likely caused by the fact that often when you still see your ship on your screen, on the server you re already in your pod. Thus the server thinks you gave that command to your pod and not your ship, which was already removed server side.
Thank you for your post!
LetGÇÖs assume what you say explains this.
Ok so basically people lose their pods when they see that they are still in a ship but their opponent, do to having a better internet connection or better computer, see they are in a pod. Would you agree that as long as you are spamming warp or autopilot trick there is nothing more you can do as a player? BTW which is better: autopilot or spam warp?
Assuming you can't do anything more than spam warp or use the autopilot trick then it seems the whole business of whether you get a pod kill or not has nothing to do with ability in the game but is really just a matter of what sort of internet or computer you have.
I think that is the inescapable conclusion. But this sort of poisons the game for solo and small gang players in empire. Because it means if you have a good computer or internet connection you can have ships with 50% more armor,(slaves) or 40% more speed(snakes) or 40% more shield boost(crystals) than others. Sure if you are used to flying in fleets where its 50 vs 20 this won't make much difference. But for those of us who like solo and small scale pvp this is really significant.
That is why I posted this originally:
Cearain wrote:When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
But now let me suggest that perhaps what you explain is not the only problem and the whole thing is may be riddled with problems. The first two scenarios are why I suggested that it seems the pod is responding to a command you actually gave your ship. The third point is just an explanation that the problems go deeper than you describe.
1) After I lose my ship the warp out button is GÇ£unpressable.GÇ¥ I realize that due to the session timer change I shouldn't be able to dock or jump through a gate but I should be able to warp. Yet right after my ship explodes the warp out button does not "press." ItGÇÖs frozen for a couple seconds. This freeze up seems to happen after my ship is lost. So I conclude that perhaps the pod is reacting to a command given while I am in my ship.
2) One time I was fighting a destroyer in a range fit frigate. I started to dip into armor so I warped away. I did a few warps to let my aggession go and then I docked. Well the destroyer was at the station. The ship said it was docking but it didn't dock. I spammed dock. The destroyer locked me. Started firing. My armor went then I went into hull. So I picked a distant celestial and started to spam the warp out button to at least save my pod. Well I ended up in my pod in station. But in my pod with my implants! Now I was glad I had my pod but this should not have happened. This was before incarna so there should have been a 30 second session timer before i could dock. The only explanation I can come to is my pod instantly acknowledged the command I gave my ship.
3) Your explanation doesn't explain what can be very extensive client side lag. One time I was spaming warp for quite a while when I while in structure. I was fighting a merlin without a sensor booster. Now there is no way I was already in my pod when I started spamming warp and the logs verified that. But nevertheless I was podded. Now according to eft a merlin with all level 5 skills should take 3.8 seconds to target a pod. There is no way my spamming the warp button would have left a 3.8 second gap. Some of the warp commands must not have been coming through at all.
In sum even if your explanation is correct the pod mechanics in eve poison the game for solo and small scale pvp in empire. But itGÇÖs quite likely that the mechanics are even more problematic than your explanation suggests.
Again I think eve is awesome. The actual ship fights are not determined by these things. But this podding mechanic often causes me to think why should I play this game when itGÇÖs more of a test of internet connection than any game ability.
Some people can fly with pirate implants and almost never get podded, others canGÇÖt take advantage of those. DonGÇÖt you think ccp should look at making this game mechanic reliable? I mean I donGÇÖt care if you always lose a pod or if you can always warp out. But eve shouldnGÇÖt be just a test of your computer.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.09 22:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:Eh, big deal if I lose my pod.
In most blobs the actual benefits of the implants don't really matter. Since many eve pvpers just blob others they don't need to bother with them. But for those of us who do small scale or solo pvp the benefits from pirate implants can be very substantial.
Losing them do to unreliable game mechanics can really start to hurt.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.09 23:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
If you calmly hit/spam the warp button and there's no bubble trouble, you live.!
It depends on client and internet lag. You don't always live. Even before incarna it was glitchy.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
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Posted - 2011.12.10 11:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eisen Obliema wrote:Myself and several members of my alliance have experienced all of these issues. However we have noticed them since Incarna, so they are not new to Crucible. In fact if you read the EvE blogs, you can see that these issues have been around since Incarna with no real response from the Devs. ....
I heard that when they went with the carbon ui it caused more client side lag.
Again I don't really care if ccp wants to make it so we always get podded or never get podded but the game mechanics should be reliably based on how you play the game not your computer.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
96
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Posted - 2011.12.15 22:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Good news, pod reimbursed, there was an issue on their end that the gm found and success...
maybe there is hope for a bug fix in future....
I will say the gms are often fair when they do find something.
The problem is really that their hands are often tied because the logs don't show client lag or internet lag. The logs just show you hitting the warp button once every 3 seconds instead of 5xs per second.
Internet gaming is not yet ready to sort out who gave these sub second commands first. I wish ccp would acknowledge that and stop making important consequences in their game hinge on it.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
96
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Posted - 2011.12.16 02:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Jonathan Ferguson wrote:I'm glad you got your ISK back but giving ISK to people who don't deserve it is no better than letting people get podded who don't deserve it. People who choke need to die horribly. People who don't choke need to escape (absent a bubble.) It shouldn't come down to lawyering and petitioning. +1 however petitioning wont get you your isk back.. unless there is actually a problem. People should die if they dont know how to save there pod in low/null without bubble. however if someone has a problem that is legit then petitions and bug reports should be sent. your perfect world scenario doesnt always exist.. especially in eve.
Petitions have nothing to do with lawyering. If the logs show an error you get reimbursed. If not you don't. What Ferguson seems to fail to realize is that even people who don't "choke" often still get podded due to the internet not being instantaneous in its communications.
It may be that due to his internet provider or his location he has always gotten his pod out absent a bubble or smarty but for others that is not the case. In eve how good your internet connection is will have a large impact on how competive you will be. People can look at stats or whatever you want but a *very* significant aspect of the game has nothing to do with choking or not choking. It has to do with your internet provider.
That is why Jack dents proposal here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=491606#post491606
That pods be given time to warp out is not a scrub suggestion. Its a suggestion from someone who understands that the internet is not "instantaneous" so making mechanics based on the assumption that they are, is stupid.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
298
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Posted - 2012.03.08 15:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Given how much implants can give large advantage in this game, I have asked ccp diagoras to give some statistics on this here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=851310#post851310
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
298
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Posted - 2012.03.08 20:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:Soooooo, much speculation and guessing as far as whether anything changed, whether something changed that could have affected the warp mechanics, etc.
Dev response?... No? It would actually help, you know.
Yes I agree. The advantages that implants give in this game are high enough that ccp should explain how these mechanics work.
If they are just going to claim nothing has changed in this regard then I would like to see the numbers of pod kills/ship kills in low sec that support that claim. I know for sure that something changed for me and everyone I have talked to agrees. Was this due to my and everyone I talked to having and issue with their internet provider or local computer? Or did something happen to the client?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
299
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Posted - 2012.03.09 18:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Hilarious.
I myself die to podding only because of docking lag.
You're doing it wrong. :)
Also ... +1 Klandi :D
How do you do it?
It used to be that if you aligned and then spammed the warp out button before your ship blew up you would get out. That is no longer the case though.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
300
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Posted - 2012.03.11 22:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Nice to know it's our fault the client freezes and gets people killed. In my experience 8/10 pod kills have been caused by client freeze/collapse.
There certainly seems to be some sort of issue since incarna. I think the client must be freezing or something.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
300
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Posted - 2012.03.12 13:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:I lost a pod once because the 'Changing Ship' message got stuck on my screen and I couldn't do anything until I died xD Confirming this is actually the problem... The session change between your ship blowing up, and you being in a pod... able to warp takes long enough (some of the time) for fast locking ships to point you
So you are thinking that you can't warp out during the session change?
I think its clear that something changed in how this works because of the substantial increase in pod kills. But with no devs willing to talk about it I am not sure what exactly happened.
I'm not expecting ccp to admit the game is bugged or anything, but can we at least get some assurance that someone at ccp is looking into this?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
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Posted - 2012.03.12 19:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Upgrade your pipes. It makes other internet servers and routers immediately faster and increases their bandwidth as well.
But really - The bug is when your ship is destroyed and you're transfered into your pod. A lot of the time theres caching issues and i find now and then my harddrive thrashes for 5-10 seconds when my ship explodes.
The best way to fix it is to leave your ship in station and have it load the Pod mode/graphics etc right before you enter battle. If you've been flying around for hours, chances are the pod model/graphics have been dropped from memory
What do you mean upgrade your pipes? I don't think this is a lag issue. I very rarely have lag of more than .1 second. I have a ssd hard drive but I do have an older graphics card but I play on the low settings and it used to work fine until incarna.
So what changed?
Do you think the pod graphics are better and therefore taking longer to load?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
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Posted - 2012.03.13 21:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Hilarious.
I myself die to podding only because of docking lag.
You're doing it wrong. :)
Also ... +1 Klandi :D
What do you do to get your pod out?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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