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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:17:00 -
[1]
When i saw Tuxford loosing his self control on the drake subject, i thought about what eve was one year and a half ago...
At the beginning of the "14 days trial" period, Eve was a "restricted" community with far less people. T2 was already : "wow, vets inside", and many people had fun making 1V1 fights.
I was impressed by the ccp communication with his tiny community "15k player at the same time wooot". It was really an exchange where ccp was looking at what the community needs and how to make the game better.
I'm not sure this model is still good. The kali launch is the best example of what can be done with a small addicted player basis, and how it turn when this basis double or more : a total jerk of board rant.
Finnaly, i would have really prefered you cook your expansion internal, and finally release it : "take it as it is, we'll fix if we think it doesn't work", like SOE, Blizzard or Funcom do. Its annoying, but really less than all this rant threads around.
*wear his flame suit*
Sometimes, giving the voice to the community dont help to make things goes better...
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Dagis
United Knights Mining and Security
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:29:00 -
[2]
I couldn't agree more, i find that with every Mmorpg there are people who just complain because they see someone who is better (even if that person has put lots of effort into getting the right gear, playing with tatics and spending lots of time refining his/her own skills).
All that people want is to be as good as the guy/gal who spent most of there time making themselves good but not wanting to put the effort in it takes to do it..
I think that the community having a voice is a good thing but people will always cry and complain it is in their nature..
I find is so fustrating when people who cry and complain get there way because it just turns into a downwards spiral (look at swg)..
There needs to a time when enough is enough, and the DEV's stop listening to the cry babys..
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Saphros
Minmatar
Lone Gunmen
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:35:00 -
[3]
I agree with you there a bit, every time I check the forums now there seem to be more and more people whining. I'm getting quite worried that the devs have started to listen to all the whiners. It's obvious that several people are after only one thing; and that is to make the ships they fly themselves better whatever the cost of the game experience.
I hope not that Tux is giving in to children and people with the mentality of the same. Is EVE turning in to a sandbox were the ones who cries the loudest get the most attention? 
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:37:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Saphros
I agree with you there a bit, every time I check the forums now there seem to be more and more people whining. I'm getting quite worried that the devs have started to listen to all the whiners. It's obvious that several people are after only one thing; and that is to make the ships they fly themselves better whatever the cost of the game experience.
I hope not that Tux is giving in to children and people with the mentality of the same. Is EVE turning in to a sandbox were the ones who cries the loudest get the most attention?
I was getting worried myself, so I try to stay out of this channel except when im bored now. Its not healthy getting upset about what people write here, so its better to not be here. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.19 13:55:00 -
[5]
The saddest thing is when people insults the devs "because it dont goes the way they want".
I only hope those "so competent" people who use fool language to talk to the devs wont disguish them to do the things properly...
If things dont please you in eve (what it was, what it is, what it will be), do like me, prepare yourself to a loong pause and come later to see if YOU are still in the mood to play the game or not. The game wont adapt to you. (but i fear it seem it adapt to the WCB {Whining Community Bandwagon}...)
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2006.11.19 14:00:00 -
[6]
I think good feedback helps CCP. The difficulty for many posting, is to draw the line where critical feedback ends and whining starts.
Anyways, isnt it some sort of an indirect compliment if so many people try to give their opinion on the changes? Sort of means there is many enthusiastic players out there. If there is changes and nobody says a word, then it is time to worry.
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Mallakk
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Posted - 2006.11.20 08:04:00 -
[7]
Feedback is a thing, continuous whinning is another. Actually on the 34 pages of thread and hundreds page of reply, how many are constructive ?
I really undestand Tux start to use cuss words, people open great eyes and say "what ? you let your 6 year old bro touch your computer ?" but really, i'm surprised he didn't said that before.
People with 3M sp wants the 800k they feel robbed AND to do the same damage output than a 60M sp old player (and i'm none of these), they complain mission cans are too long to loot, soon they will complain that they dont ALWAYS win in pvp... (that's already like this i fear...).
Computer playing is the summum of the lazyness because its entertaining ourselves with a total non productive activity. Being lazy in a game... it being at a larva state, better to turn computer off and go to bed daylong, letting us enjoy a good hard game.
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Cailais
Amarr
THE SEFRIM INSTITUTE
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Posted - 2006.11.20 08:39:00 -
[8]
The main issue in repsect to for the forums is that players often only look at a change in isolation. Equally there is a mistaken belief that all things in EVE should be 'balanced'. If this was the case, well then every class of racial ships would be exactly the same. Nor should a 'bad' aspect of a ship neccessarily be countered by another 'good aspect'. Some ships should be just plain poor.
To give an example of this the purifier costs (average across all regions) 1/3rd the cost of a manticore. The purifier is generally regarded as a 'poorer' ship to the manticore - and the price reflects that and acts as its own 'balance'.
In terms of isolation, many players have thrown up the arms in wailing grief over the introduction of 'warp to 0' - but very, very few threads on this topic even mention the changes to scanning, voip, gangs, wcs and so on.
Players should try restrain themselves from making judgements in specific terms about a particular feature until it is seen in context.
C.
www.sefrim.com - sig design - eve mail for details
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.20 09:49:00 -
[9]
It has been the same for the last 2.5 years.
A big patch comes closer. People vent about the info they get, or even try to give constructive feedback.
A bit later one dev or the other explodes. Blood is boiling.
The community manager and on occasion the seniour producer vents some steam and flames or ridicules the people giving (often heated) feedback.
Some time later the community manager promises that there's going to be more communication (as opposed to monologues like those interesting devblogs).
Patch, more posts, nothing changes as can be seen when the next big patch comes close.
The regular 'Wow we reached a new record!' notes to the community can be called communication? Others might just call those bragging.
Where are the promised regularly sheduled DevChats? There has been a single one DevChat. On the other hand, one DevChat per year can be defined 'a regular communication' too.
I love the DevBlogs. They give valuable stuff to chat about even if the respective dev doesn't take his part in it. Some of them obviously do not even read the following thread where people point out some of the flaws in the presented plans. They could be used to start a communication, but sadly they're normally only used for a one-way info presentation to keep the readers busy.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:35:00 -
[10]
Tbh if CCP would do it like Blizz does it and just adds stuff without feedback, Eve wouldn't exist.
The community makes this game. It's not as if CCP has 10mil subscribers and don't care if 10k quit. If 3k veterans quit playing over a patch CCP has a problem and they realize that.
What's causing the whinefest this time is two things:
1) Lack of Dev response over several major issues for 2-3 weeks. If you ask feedback, you have to respond and comment on your view. Not let people duke it out on the forums.
2) Growing community means a smaller percentage of people that actually know what they talk about. Just because you're a forum warrior doesn't mean you know what you post. When vets are having an argument with Caldari fanboi noobs over an obviously flawed ship things tend to go down the drain. For example, Joshua knows what he's talking about. and so is Ithildin (even for all his weird ideas). Jim Raynor, for example, is not. With no dev interference threads like that tend to go down the drain.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:44:00 -
[11]
Sadly all the people working on 'new stuff' are the ones that get the sharp end - in general people don't bother to be vocal about stuff they think is fine.
Especially things like new ships, everyone who can fly them has an opinion on how they should be. Sometimes the discussion and testing leads to changes. Other times it's deemed 'good enough' despite the chunk of people who are annoyed that their special interest wasn't catered to.
As EVE grows, sadly this gets worse and worse.
*shrug* when under pressure, and all you see for the hard work you're putting in is whinging, whining and moaning then it's pretty easy to get annoyed to the point where 'STFU WHINGERS' is about all you feel like posting. Not that I do game dev, I do systems admin elsewhere, but there's similarities - 95% of all feedback you _ever_ recieve is negative. And when it's overly positive then you have to start thinking whether you made a mistake.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.11.20 10:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Sadly all the people working on 'new stuff' are the ones that get the sharp end - in general people don't bother to be vocal about stuff they think is fine.
Especially things like new ships, everyone who can fly them has an opinion on how they should be. Sometimes the discussion and testing leads to changes. Other times it's deemed 'good enough' despite the chunk of people who are annoyed that their special interest wasn't catered to.
As EVE grows, sadly this gets worse and worse.
*shrug* when under pressure, and all you see for the hard work you're putting in is whinging, whining and moaning then it's pretty easy to get annoyed to the point where 'STFU WHINGERS' is about all you feel like posting. Not that I do game dev, I do systems admin elsewhere, but there's similarities - 95% of all feedback you _ever_ recieve is negative. And when it's overly positive then you have to start thinking whether you made a mistake.
I couldn't agree more.
I think that what CCP have made is exceptionally and unique, not to mention, first of a kind. The game is good and exciting.
Is it perfect? Ofcourse not, but if you want it to be perfect, make it yourself. Otherwise, give your oppinion and don't cry when it's not heard. Because what's perfect for you is not perfect for me. (this "you" is not James Lyrus, btw  )
CCP, keep up the good work, and think about the 29k other players not whining on these boards
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