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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:34:00 -
[1]
Yes I know Ill get majorly flamed for this and called every name in the book, but wouldnt it be nice to start fresh with some of the major issues fixed. The unlimited bp copies has imo crashed the market beyond repair. I liked it better when a thorax cost 20 mil isk rather than just a hair over production cost, not to mention the probs that have been caused by everyone in the game owning a battleship. I know that Eve will never be perfect, but am i the only one who would give up all their progress to have a clean start? |

Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:35:00 -
[2]
/emote looks at his number of skill points
/emote looks at the hundreds of good modules in his hangars
/emote looks at his collection of ships
/emote looks at his collection of implants
/emote looks at his future-proof attributes
No.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |

Shock
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:40:00 -
[3]
Somehow Beta with all it's bugs was more fun then Live is now.
Makes me wonder why... --- soonÖ |

DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:42:00 -
[4]
Maybe one day that they will make a new server if we got 100k players on Tranq. __________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |

Jolo
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:43:00 -
[5]
   ---------------------------------------
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:43:00 -
[6]
Quote: The unlimited bp copies has imo crashed the market beyond repair.
The market hasn't crashed, it simply doesn't exist yet.
Quote: I liked it better when a thorax cost 20 mil isk rather than just a hair over production cost
Well, so did people producing Thoraxes - but guess what, it's the same old song and dance. Supply and demand. With 80 corporations making ships and 20 people looking to buy one, what do you think happens to the price?
Quote: not to mention the probs that have been caused by everyone in the game owning a battleship
What problems are those? That it's not so cool anymore because they're becoming more common? Please. They're the best ships, hence the longer the game is out the more there will be. That's how online games work. Remember the first person who got platemail Armor in EverQuest? Do you think he was upset when "everyone in the game" eventually had it?
Quote: but am i the only one who would give up all their progress to have a clean start
Yah, probably one of the only ones. Sorry, terrible idea.
Veruna Caseti Ishukone |

EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:55:00 -
[7]
No. If this was implemented I would quit simple, unless YOU spent the rest of the time mining just for me to get me my mods, ships and isk back. Very very silly idea.
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Nightbreed
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Posted - 2003.11.12 08:59:00 -
[8]
Would be better to open a 2th server
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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:00:00 -
[9]
If the market dosent exist yet when exactly will it start to exist? When tech 2 comes out? I dont see how releasing tech 2 is gonna fix the market. Itll be just like the rare loot market or the implant market. only the richest peps and corps will be able to afford tech 2 because itll be so expensive at first leaving the average players even farther behind than they are now. If we started from scratch only corporations who are serious about manufacturing would get the high $ bps instead of EVERY corp owning them just to outfit their members. Imo battleships were meant to be the flagship of a fleet not the ship that everyone uses. CCP has already said somewhere that players advanced a lot faster than they had expected (not a big suprise there) so all im saying is that it would be nice to restart with everything going at the pace it was meant to be going. Lots of peps are complaining and even quiting because theres nothing left to do, so whats the harm in a restart? Ive been here as long as most players (since beta) and i have a ton of skill points and cool loot and isk but id give it all up to keep Eve from going down the drain that it appears (at least to me) to be circling already only 6 months after launch. |

EvilEric
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:06:00 -
[10]
BeefStu... Taking your thoughts a little further... Why not just make changes to the current system instead of WIPING OUT MONTHS of invested time and emotion*?
If you honestly think people would accept this you are dafter than you appear.
(*oh I forgot to mention RL money in some cases when buying accounts from ebay (within EULA rules))
To quote :"stfu(tm)" and "kthxbyby(r)"
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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:11:00 -
[11]
No i dont think people would actually accept this idea but i just want to know if im the only person who thinks that its the only way to REALLY fix Eve. Of course everyone would quit and sue and some would probably have to check themselves into some kind of rehab clinics, but i just wanted to know if anyone else out there shares my views. |

Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:15:00 -
[12]
If i was guarranteed that everything would work properly... i'd do it in a blink of an eye.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |

Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:18:00 -
[13]
Quote: If i was guarranteed that everything would work properly... i'd do it in a blink of an eye.
I bet you're a sucker for salesmen 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |

BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:20:00 -
[14]
Thank you Juan, I knew there was at least one other person out there who felt the same way! |

Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:31:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote: If i was guarranteed that everything would work properly... i'd do it in a blink of an eye.
I bet you're a sucker for salesmen 
Heh Joshua, unlike you i like the game more than i like my skill points, modules, ships etc.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |

Miso
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:51:00 -
[16]
worst. idea. ever. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:53:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: If i was guarranteed that everything would work properly... i'd do it in a blink of an eye.
I bet you're a sucker for salesmen 
Heh Joshua, unlike you i like the game more than i like my skill points, modules, ships etc.
It's not the material gains I was worried about. It was the time and dedication invested in creating my character.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |

Catch22
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Posted - 2003.11.12 09:54:00 -
[18]
I don't see how a player wipe would help unless the game is fixed, and if the game is fixed, why have a player wipe?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ '[He] would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; if he didn't want to he was sane and had to.' |

Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2003.11.12 13:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Randuin MaraL on 12/11/2003 13:52:34 I saw too many pwipes. I do not even need to look at my skills.
No flames, but a straight and clear: "No". ____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |

Mitchman
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:02:00 -
[20]
Quote: Somehow Beta with all it's bugs was more fun then Live is now.
Makes me wonder why...
Not really. In beta, most were carefree because you could get a player wipe or lose a ship to a bug at any time, so most didn't bother about any serious "work", but just went around having fun. I know I did :-)
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:10:00 -
[21]
Player whipe = I dont have the skills and money you have and I am mad.
Just realize some have seen the gold rush and are going searching. This game is very fair. Everyone plays the same rules. Its true that the longer you play the better your char is. But the changes that can/will occur will make those choices a consequence/reward. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |

Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:21:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 12/11/2003 14:40:46 I think many people no longer here would accept this. Its not all that different from quiting entirely and starting fresh in another game. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! *waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |

Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:23:00 -
[23]
Quote: Not really. In beta, most were carefree because you could get a player wipe or lose a ship to a bug at any time, so most didn't bother about any serious "work", but just went around having fun. I know I did :-)
I also know alot of people that got really ****y at wipes, among other things in beta. In fact, the late beta boards and this forum, I hardly notice the difference. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! *waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |

Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:27:00 -
[24]
2nd server would suck. the best thing about eve is that we all reside in the same world bound by the same rules. i would prolly cancel if there was a 2nd server...
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F'kinell
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:30:00 -
[25]
Harisdrop--
I happen to know who BeefStu's main is; I can assure you it is not jealousy which inspires him to post....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I blame the scapegoats |

Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.11.12 14:38:00 -
[26]
Joshua,
I said if indeed it could provide a solution, in some way, to the serious problems EVE is experiencing... i would do it.
Hypothetical Question: Would you prefer to keep playing a game with serious problems in important aspects of it, even if you knew that a Pwipe would be the quickest most efficient way of setting it straight?
BTW Time spent in EVE is material gain.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |

SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.11.12 15:01:00 -
[27]
No you arent' the only one that thinks a major game rollback is in order if the fundamental flaws in this game can be fixed. I have already recycled my main char(with its 3mil plus skill points) the thought being if they fix the game so it works starting over won't be a problem, if they don't fix it then I've eliminated the only reason to continue playing a game that doesn't work.
EVE has so much to offer I can only hope that in time the dev's will understand the basic flaws and take a bold step to Fix them and give this game a chance for a very very long life. If not I'll find I time sink that is just as pretty but I actually enjoy playing. If you can catch me you can have me. |

NGRU Rix
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Posted - 2003.11.12 15:40:00 -
[28]
Playerwipe would most likely be the same as an Accountwipe for a large number of people in the game.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.11.12 15:47:00 -
[29]
playerwipemyass !!
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.11.12 15:59:00 -
[30]
lol it'll never happen Moo so don't get overly emotional. It would be easier to create a second game on its own server a couple of years down the road. If you can catch me you can have me. |

Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.12 16:07:00 -
[31]
Quote: worst. idea. ever.
Nope. That honour still goes to Waawaa Ragnar and his "Hey Corp - lets move to Venal!" declaration. 
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Draka
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Posted - 2003.11.12 16:30:00 -
[32]
Look at the thread entitled "The way things should have been". IF, and ONLY IF, the game was restored to the original design and implemented along the lines of that thread, I would accept a pwipe, and/or instantaneously move to a second server. Anything less, and the answer is no.
CEO The Cinnaban Order "Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |

LiverpoolFC
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Posted - 2003.11.12 16:59:00 -
[33]
They say a 2nd Server would be required if they hit 15,000 concurrent players on a regular basis. We appear to be running around 4000-5000 so a long way to go.
It would be nice to start again, have done it many times on other games but only when I have completed them. As this game as no "end-game" in sight I would not want to lose what I have achieved since game release.
I see where your comming from but in reality too many people have invested too much time in Eve.
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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 17:24:00 -
[34]
lol moostradamus u actually made me laugh out loud. thanks to all the people who understand that im not sugesting that ccp actually do a pwipe but rather that i just wanted to know who out there would be willing to give up all their hard work to make the game what it should have been. |

Deloup Drakar
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Posted - 2003.11.12 18:23:00 -
[35]
Quote: Ive been here as long as most players (since beta) and i have a ton of skill points and cool loot and isk but id give it all up to keep Eve from going down the drain that it appears (at least to me) to be circling already only 6 months after launch.
Unless your posting under an alt, your full of BS since the character avatar's on the boards worked a while ago.
IMHO you just started this game and want it reset so your even with everybody else. You got nothing to loose compaired to the ppl who have been here long.
Go hop on a pole.
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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.12 18:30:00 -
[36]
yes this is one of my alts. shame on me! |

Xander Teg
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Posted - 2003.11.12 18:39:00 -
[37]
worst idea in the history of all bad ideas. _________________ "For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling
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Drethen Nerevitas
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Posted - 2003.11.12 18:42:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 12/11/2003 18:44:13 Xander, let's not go that far... _______________________________________________________________________
IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. |

Deloup Drakar
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Posted - 2003.11.12 18:46:00 -
[39]
Quote: yes this is one of my alts. shame on me!
Would have perhaps (no promises) gave you more respect if you would have had the courage to do the post with your main. No ammount of people saying "I know his main and he has alot to loose" will do justice as its thier word against any hard fact.
For any future postings of such idea, I'd strongly suggest doing it with an avatar that people know you have alot to loose, not just a joe-blow alt or n00b.
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2003.11.12 19:34:00 -
[40]
I would opt for a server reset. Money and items, skills, it's all relative. My gripe is that the beta testers had a HUGE advantage over everyone else ,mainly because the ore was not redistributed for weeks after the game went live. Those that knew where the Ark was were millionaires inside of a few hours. Maybe a 2nd server should open, those opting to start on a level playing field could join. Flame away, flamers.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.12 19:56:00 -
[41]
I wouldn¦t have any problem with a wipe. It¦s not like they¦re cutting your right arm off or something. They¦re just deleting a few 1s and 0s. No need to get all upset about something like this.
But a wipe is not needed. It wouldn¦t fix anything. The missing content would remain, the bugs would remain, the ship-balance problem would remain... so IMO a wipe wouldn¦t make a difference besides maybe the BP situation.
CCP would have to fix the game before a wipe, and if they¦ve fixed the game a wipe isn¦t needed anymore. Know what I mean?
Mai's Idealog |

Wild Rho
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Posted - 2003.11.12 21:02:00 -
[42]
The real problem would be if they wiped everything and then found that all the fundemental flaws hadnt been addressed. This may set a dangerous precedent for them to wipe the data a second time for similar reasons.
And lets face it, eves player base would be crippled if that happened. It may be a game but alot of ppl have spent alot of time getting to where they are now to go back to nothing.
maybe if they refunded the rl money ppl paid to play the game prior to the wipe I would consider it. I would see anything else as a waste of my own money.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |

csebal
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Posted - 2003.11.12 22:39:00 -
[43]
Well,
A player wipe? Maybe... lots of things are impossible to fix unless they do it, and as such, im for it...
BUT
The root of the problem is, that the current system rewards time spent online instead of creative ideas, and as such, no matter how ingenious you are, you'll never be able to reach the ones current on top, given they keep playing... you simply cant advance faster than them.
The game would need some ways to make a difference compared to the others. Things like the personalized research on blueprints would be a good start, but the game would need a lot more, to give latecomers a chance in the race.
Otherwise, its an "once first, always first" game, leaving a lot of players without goals to fight for. (Why fighting, if you have no chance to reach the top?)
Bottomline: Once they made the changes necessary not to get the same problem again, im all for a fresh start. Not b4 that.
Sadly, im also sure they'll never do it, as they'll not risk losing the short-sighted majority just to make the game better.
ps. no, im not a new player, been here since B6. yes, this is my main, no, im not rich, but yes, i have a nice collection of assets i would lose with a pwipe ------------- This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way. ------------- |

Znaei
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Posted - 2003.11.12 23:15:00 -
[44]
I think I could do with a wipe of everything except skills and attributes. Dont care about my assets, they can always be regained. But a total wipe.. no way!
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |

Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2003.11.13 02:30:00 -
[45]
Player Wipes in beta test were expected.
Within the first few weeks of release, would have angered a lot of people but they may have got away with it.
Player Wipe now, six months after release. The game needs a lot of balancing, fixing, new content added. a player wipe wouldn't fix anything.
It just won't happen |

Cruise
|
Posted - 2003.11.13 02:57:00 -
[46]
Let's say they did fix ALL of the bugs in the game, balanced out the PvP problems, fixed the market, got the agent system and courier missions working properly, factions worked as they were intended and player-owned items were obtainable. If CCP accomplished ALL of that and took it down to a wipe - minus skill points and training skills/levels - I'd consider it, but not before then.
If they did a wipe at that point the mad rush for ship and weapons production, slugging it out for prime areas of space, regrouping of corporations and alliances would be a madhouse! Now THAT would be worth watching 
------------------------------------------- Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
|

Asimir Kurdugal
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Posted - 2003.11.13 03:30:00 -
[47]
Even if they wiped and didn't change anything, I wouldn't really care.
________________________________________________ Moving again, comfort of the chase Now and again, this my saving grace Dead on the inside, I've got nothing to prove Keep me alive and give me something to lose I've been gone so long, but I will come back I will come back for you |

SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.11.13 05:33:00 -
[48]
yea cruise that would be fun. If you can catch me you can have me. |

Draka
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Posted - 2003.11.13 05:44:00 -
[49]
Actually, if they do it RIGHT and have the full faction system in place, AND no Highways and all the other things in the thread "The way things should have been." then a wipe INCLUDING skills would be required, because a lot of the cross-Empire skills would be either not available or extremely hard to obtain.
CEO The Cinnaban Order "Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |

Lardarz B'stard
|
Posted - 2003.11.13 05:48:00 -
[50]
Quote: Maybe one day that they will make a new server if we got 100k players on Tranq.
Maybe one day monkeys will fly out of my butt.
E.T. Radio - designed to enhance your flying experience.... http://radio.evesound.net:8000/evetrance.ogg.m3u |

Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.13 05:59:00 -
[51]
Whazza? Is this guy supposed to make my ideas look sane by contrast? 
There is a huge difference between nerfing future progress and deleting past progress. That difference is called:
Embarassingly painful ways to commit suicide. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |

Jonathon Reynolds
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Posted - 2003.11.13 06:19:00 -
[52]
Quote: "but wouldnt it be nice to start fresh with some of the major issues fixed."
A player-wipe is a great idea.
You go first, we're right behind you, honest. 
|

Draka
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Posted - 2003.11.13 06:53:00 -
[53]
Been thru pwipes before. Hell, been thru GAMEWIPES when I no longer enjoyed them. Ain't committed suicide yet.
My condition still stands. Fix everything so we return to the original vision of this game, and I will lead the way, either to a new server or to a pwipe. Whether ya follow or not.
CEO The Cinnaban Order "Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |

Temujin Destovai
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Posted - 2003.11.13 08:23:00 -
[54]
Although it would be kind of fun going through frigates and cruisers again, and have economy start afresh, it wouldnt change anything since not that much has changed, and we would be looking at the same thing in the near future again.
And it would probably cut the number of subscribers down to record lows.
The Chronicles of Xanadu |

Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2003.11.13 13:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 13/11/2003 13:28:14
Quote:
Quote: yes this is one of my alts. shame on me!
Would have perhaps (no promises) gave you more respect if you would have had the courage to do the post with your main. No ammount of people saying "I know his main and he has alot to loose" will do justice as its thier word against any hard fact. For any future postings of such idea, I'd strongly suggest doing it with an avatar that people know you have alot to loose, not just a joe-blow alt or n00b.
What the @#$% does it matter if someone post under an alt or not? It is stupid to discount someones opinion simply becaue they choose to remain anonymous. With the number of rampant idiots playing this game and trolling this board, I don't blame BeefStu. He is not abusing his alt by flaming or spamming the forums, he is simply stating an opinion. So many of you have this knee jerk reaction to seeing a post by an alt. "Ooooh, oooh, it's an alt, he has noooo credibility and he's a chicken!!" Just stupid.
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2003.11.13 13:39:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 13/11/2003 13:52:26 READ THIS! LET'S SEE SOME FEEDBACK. AM I CRAZY?
By the way, this is my main and it has been in the game since the first week. I have tons to lose. But for me, the best time in the game was the first few weeks trying to figure out how to beat everyone else at making money. At the time I didnt realize there were beta testers just raking it in because CCP left the world pretty much exactly the same as in the beta. These beta testers are the most powerful in the game now, and filthy rich. If resetting the server meant a shuffling the world around, redistributing ore, moving good spawn locations, basically putting a blindfold on all of us and spinnind us around a few times, I think it would be great. The problem is that the people that started on day 1 will ALWAYS be more powerfull than people starting now, or even a month into the game. This is a major turn off for new players. It is even a turn off to seasoned players, because we get bored.
I think this game would be better played in "cycles" that lasted, say 6 months. Dismantle, start over. Then at least people would have some tangible goal. Right now the universe just seems to stagnant. We have Techell making everyones ships, SI and Biomass are the big bad pirates, all the Ark is gone, etc, etc.
A 6 month lifecycle would motivate people. There would be more action because the next cycle would be around the corner. Different layers of Tech could be used after each reset to make things interesting. New Races, bonuses, ships, weapons, etc. Not better, just different.
Newer players need a chance to get to the level of the people that started on day one. I recently signed up my GF. She loves the game. But she has asked me "What's the point? I can never even be half as powerful as you or anyone in your corp." What do you tell noobs? "Yep, too bad".
Just my .02 isk.
Flame on.
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BeefStu
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:35:00 -
[57]
I like that idea Adliger, except that having your skills wiped every 6 months or so would suck, but i see where your coming from. I still think however, that a playerwipe and implimentation of features the way they were suposed to be from the start is the only way to fix the damage thats been done. |

Toyo
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:42:00 -
[58]
I don't mind loosing BP copy's and the powers that be can take make any changes they feel necessary. But I've worked hard for my ship and invested a lot of time and effort into my character, I wouldn't be a happy chappy if I lost it all.
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SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:48:00 -
[59]
It wouldn't be suicide Jash if the changes made created a game people loved to play. If you can catch me you can have me. |

Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2003.11.13 18:12:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 13/11/2003 21:25:13 Yes, skillz would be lost, but if you think about it, the entire skill system needs to be rethought. Right now the skill training system falls prey to the "Law of Diminishing Returns". Who is going to train for 30 days to get an extra 5% projectile turret damage? Skill bonuses should be stepped. Example=
lvl1 = Ability to use item lvl2 = 2% damage increase lvl3 = 4% damage increase lvl4 = 8% damage increase lvl5 = 16% damage increase /plus random super hit +%50 damage.
You get the idea. There is no reason to train to level 5 in anything unless it is required to start another skill.
That said, I LOVE THIS GAME EVEN WITH ALL OF ITS FAULTS!!!
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rage3d
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Posted - 2003.11.13 18:27:00 -
[61]
i woudnt be surprised if a dev as posted about player wipe to see what players think about one if they did one ppl woudnt have anything to complain about cause they would have a few months to do stuff gain what they lost give em more time to play with there *****
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SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.11.13 21:49:00 -
[62]
I would support a player wipe for one reason alone. Most of the beta testing involved game mechanics. For beta testing to occur for an economy simulator there has to have been a real trial run with the economic foundations in place. This is what has been occuring in EVE since its official release.
Can the dev's look at the economic model in place. Make large sweeping changes to bring a better overall balance in the game. Of course they can. But to bring it off and put all players on the same footing a wipe would also be required.
I guess the biggest question unanswered by the dev's: Is EVE an economic simualation or a combat PvP simulation? You will always have an element that what a purely PvP, BLOW EM UP, game. Yes eve can be that. But to be an economic battleground direct PvP fighting isn't even necessay.
I applaud the dev's for the ambition toward the overall scope of this game. It can be a lot of things to many people. Since you cannot possible satisfy all desires at once how about providing a better road map regarding the games conceptualized long term development? If you can catch me you can have me. |
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