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Almarez
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Posted - 2006.11.21 06:06:00 -
[1]
Okay I think I've figured out another reason why this increase really bothers me. Aside from the nerfing of Amarr and Gallente ships (Apoc's will now only be seen running missions and mining) I think that what CCP is trying to fix isn't a problem. Let's think of it this way. You are a king of the olden times (so maybe olden isn't a word, I don't know, but the funny thing is you understand me anyways). Okay so you are an ancient king. You have amassed a great army. Your nights have big shiny swords, your cavalry has horses the size of elephants, you even have a couple of guys with M-16's. They travelled back in time or something. Now your enemy has a couple drunks with pitchforks. What do you think will happen when the two armies meet. Thats right, total annhialation. Now lets assume you have this great army and are about to meet the drunks and God (in this case played by CCP) said "No, wait, forget the fact that you have put much time and money into creating this grand army, I want to make sure that every man has the ability to fight fair. Okay, everyone now has kevlar vests and motorcycle helmets, let the long fight begin." Do you see my point? Aside from the fact that I should have broken up this paragraph long ago, anyone who has been playing a while knows that this game is about strategy and numbers. Yes a small force can defeat a significantly larger force if set up right but if two forces are set up nearly the same, doesn't it make sense that the larger force should win 99% of the time? I don't know, I am really finding this game more and more boring (due to Amarr ships just sucking up a big one) and I think this HP bonus will be the last straw.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.21 06:35:00 -
[2]
What a bunch of incoherent babbling.
Try structuring your text a bit better next time. Please.
[ore mongers, recruiting] |
Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.21 06:48:00 -
[3]
spacing 4tw and its ***ridiculous
-------------------------------------------------------------- What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Almarez
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:25:00 -
[4]
Hey engineers don't really learn writing skills just math and such. So okay I'll work on "spacing" the next time but can you comment on the content.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:29:00 -
[5]
ridiculous*
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.22 05:40:00 -
[6]
As an engineer, I'll tell you that the first thing you learn about writing is that incoherent writing suggests incoherent thought. Try structuring it better.
Repopulate Low-Sec |
Matrix Aran
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.22 06:38:00 -
[7]
I actualy managed to read through that errant babbling after 3 failed atempts, and I realise the entire arguement you present has absolutly nothing to do with the HP change it doesn't even come close to explaining why its bad even with those errant explantions. Your arguement is more along the lines of why can't my really big ship kick the **** out of that littleship and still be a solo pwnmobile.
As to hitpoints being bad, now that capacitors have been increased and ammo and charge cargo decreased, along with shield recharge time nerfed, its essentialy the same as we have on TQ at the moment, only that it takes us twice as long to kill any one ship, which in my mind is hardly an issue. Armor repers and shield boosters still repair the same amounts so like on TQ you'll either manage to tank something or not tank it, HP meerly delays the inevitable. ----
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.22 07:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Almarez Do you see my point?
In all honesty, no.
If I understand you correctly, the example of biker gangs with M16's and kevlar pitchforks riding drunk elephants at night is an attempt to show that smaller groups will now have the advantage of larger ones. (sorry, I couldn't *not* have some fun with that)
I don't see how an equal increase in hitpoints gives a smaller force an advantage other than maybe having a chance to run tbh. If anything, a smaller force is much, much more disadvantaged post Kali than it is right now. A well run force, smaller in number than the one it opposes can potentially pick off one or two ships and slowly even the odds through attrition currently. This becomes much more difficult as the effect of the concentrated fire of a small force is reduced each time hitpoints are increased.
I believe the general consensus is that this change favors larger groups and this has been one of the complaints: an increase in blobbing.
J.A.F.O.
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Almarez
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Daos Leghki As an engineer, I'll tell you that the first thing you learn about writing is that incoherent writing suggests incoherent thought. Try structuring it better.
I dare you to show me an engineering curriculum that has more than one structured writing course...DARE YOU!!! Not being able to put something down on paper (or the computer screan in this matter) does not mean having incoherent thoughts just that it is a late night after a long week.
Tyler, My point was this bud, if you have a superior force (defined by both numbers and technology) doesn't it make sense that you will most likely win (unless you cannot command worth a ****). This being the case what will the hit point bonus do other than prolong the inevitable? It will make fleet battle quite boring. This is what I was trying to get at.
Along with that boring fleet battles it will make cap dependent races like the Amarr and Gallente almost completely useless.
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Patric Murphy
Heroes Of Blood
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: Daos Leghki As an engineer, I'll tell you that the first thing you learn about writing is that incoherent writing suggests incoherent thought. Try structuring it better.
I dare you to show me an engineering curriculum that has more than one structured writing course...DARE YOU!!!
How bout anny 4 year accredited college.
No, i cant spell, Yes, i have an education. Please try to keep your responses related to what I said, not the typo's. |
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.11.23 00:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 23/11/2006 00:56:57
Originally by: Patric Murphy
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: Daos Leghki As an engineer, I'll tell you that the first thing you learn about writing is that incoherent writing suggests incoherent thought. Try structuring it better.
I dare you to show me an engineering curriculum that has more than one structured writing course...DARE YOU!!!
How bout anny 4 year accredited college.
I had two required communications classes one focusing on the study of rhetoric.
I had the standard required english for engineering majors (funny, it was more intense than any business or economics or MIS major's equivelent)
and finally i had yet another gen ed required that i ended up taking speech and creative writing (would have thought the creative part meant the opposite side of spectrum from 'structured' as you put it, WRONG)
and that was PENN STATE (woot!), you will find similar standards in any accredited school like patric said. (cousin patric, is that you? your Maude Murphy's boy aren't ya? yeah, that my grandmothers sisters daughter!! hope to see you at the Pator Murphy reunion o/)
This is not to mention that EVERY engineering class i had focused on not so much what you did, but HOW you did it, and the fact you can explain it/reproduce it is much more important than whatever you actually built/designed.
What good is a engineer that cant explain how to build his invention? Or leaves ppl confused in his documentation?
all that and i didn't even wait for the TRIPLE DOG DARE :P
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xOm3gAx
Caldari Bre-X
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Posted - 2006.11.23 01:14:00 -
[12]
Edited by: xOm3gAx on 23/11/2006 01:14:40
Originally by: HankMurphy Edited by: HankMurphy on 23/11/2006 00:56:57
Originally by: Patric Murphy
Originally by: Almarez
Originally by: Daos Leghki As an engineer, I'll tell you that the first thing you learn about writing is that incoherent writing suggests incoherent thought. Try structuring it better.
I dare you to show me an engineering curriculum that has more than one structured writing course...DARE YOU!!!
How bout anny 4 year accredited college.
I had two required communications classes one focusing on the study of rhetoric.
I had the standard required english for engineering majors (funny, it was more intense than any business or economics or MIS major's equivelent)
and finally i had yet another gen ed required that i ended up taking speech and creative writing (would have thought the creative part meant the opposite side of spectrum from 'structured' as you put it, WRONG)
and that was PENN STATE (woot!), you will find similar standards in any accredited school like patric said. (cousin patric, is that you? your Maude Murphy's boy aren't ya? yeah, that my grandmothers sisters daughter!! hope to see you at the Pator Murphy reunion o/)
This is not to mention that EVERY engineering class i had focused on not so much what you did, but HOW you did it, and the fact you can explain it/reproduce it is much more important than whatever you actually built/designed.
What good is a engineer that cant explain how to build his invention? Or leaves ppl confused in his documentation?
all that and i didn't even wait for the TRIPLE DOG DARE :P
<troll> Never begin a sentance with "and". </troll> (Just kidding =) ) Btw Penn State pwns, the air up there is alot cleaner then down hear around Del. ---------------------------------------- http://www.oldnumber7.com/forumpic.gif Please ensure your signature is 24,000 bytes or less - Udat |
Kaell Meynn
Divergence
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Posted - 2006.11.23 02:37:00 -
[13]
Sorry, I didn't read the OP, and I'm not going to. It's illegible.
I did read the comments about engineering degrees not requiring you to learn to write, and I'd like to say that my engineering degree most certainly did.
My college engineering curriculum had a few required English credits, plus a technical writing course, plus a senior project year long course which involved a design project plus extensive write ups which had to be legible.
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2006.11.25 23:24:00 -
[14]
On a side note! You state that this game is about strategy, and concludes that if two equal equipped forces meet, the larger force will win 99% of the time. Yes that was true, in about 400 BC, before strategy was introduced to warfare. The three battles that put a mark in history is where strategies was used by great generals, and their 'equal equipped far inferior' army won the day. Look up you military history, and perhaps you'll understand why officers in the armed forces go to acadamies, and are not just picked from the street. Strategy is what wins a battle, numbers and equipment are secondary. For references look up battle of Cannae, Battle of Leuctra etc. Generally in the time from 380 BC to 300 BC was where the breakthrough in warfare was made.
So to answer if this game is about strategy, - hard to say, but sheer numbers and equipment do have a large impact.
Cheers
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.11.26 00:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 26/11/2006 00:14:57
Originally by: Terrance O'Conner On a side note! You state that this game is about strategy, and concludes that if two equal equipped forces meet, the larger force will win 99% of the time. Yes that was true, in about 400 BC, before strategy was introduced to warfare. The three battles that put a mark in history is where strategies was used by great generals, and their 'equal equipped far inferior' army won the day. Look up you military history, and perhaps you'll understand why officers in the armed forces go to acadamies, and are not just picked from the street. Strategy is what wins a battle, numbers and equipment are secondary. For references look up battle of Cannae, Battle of Leuctra etc. Generally in the time from 380 BC to 300 BC was where the breakthrough in warfare was made.
So to answer if this game is about strategy, - hard to say, but sheer numbers and equipment do have a large impact.
Cheers
I suggest you start reading history too. Nothing inflammatory about this, but if you look at Greek History you will find out that during the wars against the Persian invasion, 3 great examples of strategy can be found.
First Thermopyles. There were 1000 soldiers there (300 Spartans and 700 Thespians) which by the strategical choice of the defending position and afterwards through the almost perfect use of tactics (Spartans were famous for the use of tactics on their infantry way before that). Managed to deal a heavy blow on a 10.000 (maybe more i don't remember the exact number of them) Persian army, who managed to win them only through the treachery of Efialtis (he showed them a small path to bypass the force and surround them).
Second Battle of Marathon. The Greek forces (Athenians and Plataians) were outnumbered by the Persian forces about 10 times and little more. The victory was achieved through the use of strategy and military discipline to the orders. The detailed strategy is too long but i guess you will find it a very interesting reading.
Third the naval battle of Salamis. Where you will see another example of strategy.
All these are battles fought before 400 BC and in fact before 450 BC
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 00:32:00 -
[16]
I love this topic. The OP has managed to make his OP completely deviating from his stated topic, and every single post thereafter has hijacked it and derailed it one more step at a time.
We appear to ahve gone from Kali HP changes to blob warfare to the theoretical discussion of kevlar-plated pitchfork-wielding peasants vs motorbike-riding M16-toting knights, to the merits of writing classes on an engineering course (via the psychological projection of one's thought structure via their writing style), the correct use of "And" as a sentence leader, finishing up with discussions of the use of strategy in pre 400 BC warfare.
Excellent stuff -----------------------------------------------
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.26 00:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Almarez Okay I think I've figured out another reason why this increase really bothers me. Aside from the nerfing of Amarr and Gallente ships (Apoc's will now only be seen running missions and mining) I think that what CCP is trying to fix isn't a problem. Let's think of it this way.
You are a king of the olden times (so maybe olden isn't a word, I don't know, but the funny thing is you understand me anyways). Okay so you are an ancient king. You have amassed a great army. Your nights have big shiny swords, your cavalry has horses the size of elephants, you even have a couple of guys with M-16's.
They travelled back in time or something. Now your enemy has a couple drunks with pitchforks. What do you think will happen when the two armies meet. Thats right, total annhialation. Now lets assume you have this great army and are about to meet the drunks and God (in this case played by CCP) said "No, wait, forget the fact that you have put much time and money into creating this grand army, I want to make sure that every man has the ability to fight fair.
Okay, everyone now has kevlar vests and motorcycle helmets, let the long fight begin." Do you see my point? Aside from the fact that I should have broken up this paragraph long ago, anyone who has been playing a while knows that this game is about strategy and numbers. Yes a small force can defeat a significantly larger force if set up right but if two forces are set up nearly the same, doesn't it make sense that the larger force should win 99% of the time?
I don't know, I am really finding this game more and more boring (due to Amarr ships just sucking up a big one) and I think this HP bonus will be the last straw.
Ok added some paragraphs now to read it.
Right after reading it the text boils down to this er cant even bother its jsut a wast of time to read the point makes sence as in you kow what he is saying but his reasoning is wrong. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
Deven Sunstorm
Security Forces Domain
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Deven Sunstorm on 26/11/2006 01:07:41 [Edited for spelling, coherance] Really shouldn't drink while posting
I understand the OP's original statement about the Amarr and Gallente. It really does suck to be a race heavily dependant on the capacitor. I wish CCP would do something about this, however it appears that the Amarr and Gallente are set in thier ways and will forever be wtfowned by NOS or fights that take a while to complete.
Furthermore, since this thread has been de-railed to the point it has, I'd like to interject - Give the Abaddon a 175 m3 drone bay!!!!
Is it great being Amarr ????? Deven Sunstorm ***Security Forces Domain -SecFo-
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