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Carebear or Gankbear?

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Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:17:00 - [1] A recent thread (again!) on moving L4 agents to lowsec had me thinking. There's obviously a chasm between the thought processes ot the two opposing camps. To me, it seems that it's not about the ISK at risk from dying, but the time taken to amass that ISK. You see, I'm a major casual player. I play for a few hours a week. Potter about for some of that, mine a bit, explore a bit, lowsec or even 0.0. When I go to < 0.5 in a battleship I tend to go stabbed up to the hilt. Why? Not because I'm some major coward, but because if a bunch of gankbears come after me then that's perhaps 200 mill down the drain. My main point here is that 200 mill to me is perhaps 6 months worth of all my income in Eve. To a hardcore player who does complexes etc. that might be a couple of days. That's why I don't want to die much in the game, and you think I'm not playing as intended. Other myths dispelled: Level 4 missions are not easy for the casual player. I've lost at least 3 battleships and one HAC to them. Mission runners have uber faction setups. I've only ever flown with one faction mod. The 15km webber (forget the name) that I got lucky on a trip to 0.0 and hit an officer spawn. Not posting with my main. Well, sorry, but I don't want some gankbear to decide I'm target of the week for his little gang. Anyway, phew, that's got that off my chest anyhow, even if no-one agrees!
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:46:00 - [2] Originally by: Bistot Kid I've lost at least 3 battleships and one HAC to them. Mission runners have uber faction setups. I've only ever flown with one faction mod. The 15km webber (forget the name) that I got lucky on a trip to 0.0 and hit an officer spawn. Never flown with faction mod. Only t1/t2 fitted Apoc and never complained abt missions. Tho i refuse to do Angel Extravaganza... cant be arsed to sit in one mission for 3h when i can do 5 others in same time. And no, havent lost BS on missions...
fischsemmel AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:47:00 - [3] All right, if you've lost BSs to a level 4 for any reason other than being AFK when you shouldn't have been, or because the server booted your... I don't know what to say. Level 4s are certainly EASIER for faction fitted CNRs than for the casual player, but they are by no stretch of the imagination difficult. All you need to run them decently are some nice named guns/launchers and t2 hardeners. But, I completely understand how you feel about time invested. It's not the thought that I'll lose my ISK if I get popped, but the fact that I'll need to spend the next XX hours farming the same, boring missions, or ratting the same, boring belts or mining the same, old roids. And, for a casual player, 0.0 ratting and profitable mining are often not options (unless part of a 0.0 alliance/corp with a nice area).
Caol The Smoking Room	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Caol on 21/11/2006 14:12:09 Originally by: Bistot Kid My main point here is that 200 mill to me is perhaps 6 months worth of all my income in Eve What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies?
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Caol Edited by: Caol on 21/11/2006 14:12:09 Originally by: Bistot Kid My main point here is that 200 mill to me is perhaps 6 months worth of all my income in Eve What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies? or another question - did you sell the domination webber?? it will net you afaik 150-200mio isk if not more use faction stuff only if you can afford to lose it ... if you can't - sell it and have fun with the ISKies ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:24:00 - [6] Bistot. Placing a value on your finite time?! That will never wash with the gankbears. (I like that term! Thank you!) If Eve really was a sandbox (and thank CCP that it isn't) it would make you wonder how humans ever achieved any resemblance of civilised society at all. Put home addresses in loss and killmails. Maybe then the community will find a way to control themselves a bit better.
Norris Neophitus Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:28:00 - [7] I'm in a pretty much identical boat, lost a couple of BS by getting envolved with lvl4's when i wasn't prepared, and everytime i start to get good at the missions and know them well CCP change them, grrrr it all about to happen again. --------------------------------------------------- \|Phoon = biggest baddest ship in eve-------\| \|Oh and somebody kill all those old unused\| \|secure cans (Personal Crusade)------------\|
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Caol What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies? Not at all. I just potter about! Some trading, some ice mining, some L3 & L4 missions, some lowsec ratting, some lowsec mining. I like to mix and match a bit.
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte or another question - did you sell the domination webber?? it will net you afaik 150-200mio isk if not more use faction stuff only if you can afford to lose it ... if you can't - sell it and have fun with the ISKies Would you believe that I had it fitted to a BS just for kicks for a mission and then lost that BS to a mission! I was not happy that day I can tell you, but it was my fault so I picked up the pieces and moved on. That bloody insane Zazzmatazz (sp?) mission if I recall correctly.
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:42:00 - [10] Edited by: Bistot Kid on 21/11/2006 14:52:15 Edit: This is torture! Please CCP make your forums simply work. It can't be that difficult. Any one of tens of "off the shelf" forum packages would work, but oh noes, you have bespoke forums that simply DON'T WORK!
Kisaku Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:57:00 - [11] Well being stabbed to the hilt won't exactly be a good combat set-up post Kali, if I remember correctly equipping a stab will knock down your targeting distance and I think speed by some high percentage. It'll be good for running and thats it.
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:05:00 - [12] Originally by: Gaven Blands Bistot. Placing a value on your finite time?! That will never wash with the gankbears. (I like that term! Thank you!) I can't take credit for the term I'm afraid. It's been used by others before. I like the term because they seem to think using the derogatory "carebear" is OK, but they are some tough risktaker in a gank squad or 200km gatecamp. As that's a pretty safe occupation I think "gankbear" is fair enough, so I hope it becomes an equally popular term.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:24:00 - [13] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte or another question - did you sell the domination webber?? it will net you afaik 150-200mio isk if not more use faction stuff only if you can afford to lose it ... if you can't - sell it and have fun with the ISKies Would you believe that I had it fitted to a BS just for kicks for a mission and then lost that BS to a mission! I was not happy that day I can tell you, but it was my fault so I picked up the pieces and moved on. That bloody insane Zazzmatazz (sp?) mission if I recall correctly. dooh dunno if it makes you feel better ... but i have it seen worse someone lost a DG invul field (worth 300mio +) to a guy in a corp they were in conflict with ... he was flying a griffin transfering the good to empire. a few jumps before empire he got chased by a taranis. instead of jumping through the gate and insta'ing to safety he waited in jumprange for the taranis to aggress. well ... i two-volley'ed him - and the DG survived. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Bistot Kid Originally by: Caol What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies? Not at all. I just potter about! Some trading, some ice mining, some L3 & L4 missions, some lowsec ratting, some lowsec mining. I like to mix and match a bit. Top tip try level 4 courier missions Do them a lot get a lot of storline missions get a lot of level 4 implants to sell. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:21:00 - [15] i dont care at all of they move lvl4s to low sec :D i allredy do em there :D its better is, better drops sometimes and u dont get bored when there are pirats in the sys trying theyr best to gank u :D oh, and i still use a faction fitted BS there.... so u have to be more "lively" there to sucseed :D
Bistot Kid Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte dooh dunno if it makes you feel better ... but i have it seen worse someone lost a DG invul field (worth 300mio +) to a guy in a corp they were in conflict with ... he was flying a griffin transfering the good to empire. a few jumps before empire he got chased by a taranis. instead of jumping through the gate and insta'ing to safety he waited in jumprange for the taranis to aggress. well ... i two-volley'ed him - and the DG survived. I don't think I realised it was worth 150 mill at the time, luckily! It got destroyed with the ship, so I never even had a chance to try to go and get it back. That's one of the reasons I won't buy faction mods. (The other reason being not having that much ISK floating around!). Just too much ISK to risk in one pot. A mixture of Tech II and decent named will do me. Apart from a Gist-A MWD on my interceptor, but that wasn't insanely expensive. Going back to my original point, it's not the ISK so much, it's the time taken to earn it. Even that Gist-A would be a week or two's income for me.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.22 08:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Bistot Kid You see, I'm a major casual player. I play for a few hours a week. Potter about for some of that, mine a bit, explore a bit, lowsec or even 0.0. When I go to < 0.5 in a battleship I tend to go stabbed up to the hilt. Why? Not because I'm some major coward, but because if a bunch of gankbears come after me then that's perhaps 200 mill down the drain. I'm a fairly casual player and prefer to avoid combat but I wouldn't give a ** about taking a BS into low-sec. As long as you have half way decent skills you're not likely to get ganked. You're not going to be an easy kill even if you're just there for mining. If you're mission running you could potentially take out the camper. If they do manage to blow your ship it'll be because it has crap fittings and won't be worth the risk to them. No way anyone can insta kill you and just taking you out would require a couple of BS. I doubt that a tackling squad could lock you down while they tank the sentries so the worst case I can see is that you leave without some of your armour. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.22 08:34:00 - [18] Originally by: Caol Edited by: Caol on 21/11/2006 14:12:09 Originally by: Bistot Kid My main point here is that 200 mill to me is perhaps 6 months worth of all my income in Eve What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies? Indeed. If you run L4 courier right now you can get one storyline every 4 hours. Almost all I get is courier storylines that drop a 40mil implant. That means nearly 40mil every 4 hours or 10 mil an hour. Play for two hours a night and you can get 100 mil during the week. My alt does all his missions in a 'stower but I've heard that other agents let you do them in a shuttle. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.11.22 09:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Caol Edited by: Caol on 21/11/2006 14:12:09 Originally by: Bistot Kid My main point here is that 200 mill to me is perhaps 6 months worth of all my income in Eve What, if you don't mind me asking, is it you do to earn the iskies? mayority of empire carebears do kill missions, and those are the missions i think shouldnt be moved to low-sec, the post above me is a perfect candidate of missions to move to low-sec, they are no-risk missions. lvl4 kill missions are a quite high risk. atleast to medium sp players. theres no sutch thing as to relaxing while grinding lvl 4 kill missions as SO MANY want everyone to believe... im tired of this bull**** about lvl4 missions being so easy.. most of the time its kill missions that are talked about, and most of the time it is kill missions that players do to grind isk. now curier missions and other types of missions might be easy mode, but please.. stop making it sound like everyone can grind lvl4s and make billions without any effort.. because its not everyone that can grind kill missions in 14seconds or get good drops. now if you can do curier missions and make 40mill every 2h i think that needs a change... how many hours does it take for a newer player in a bs to do security missions and make 40mill in high-sec? eatch mission gives like 1mill, then maybe 4-6mill bounty on mission average, with a newer players skills it can take 1-2 hours to do the average missions, with the hard ones topping 3-4+ hours if they even survive. granted the harder ones have alot more bountys but mission reward in high-sec is what? 2mill average or something.. so can everyone just say lets nerf curier missions and the other non-combat/little combat oriented lvl 4 missions? leave the security ones as is, they are hard, and doesnt give you very easy isk nowadays.. atleast if you dont have faction stuff and certainly not fast isk.... --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.11.22 09:38:00 - [20] gankbear? no, they are called EMO emotional need to get a killmail and or the emotional need to kill for the sake of fun or because they can. and guess what the word is traveling around in eve
Brazero Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Red Ochre gankbear? no, they are called EMO emotional need to get a killmail and or the emotional need to kill for the sake of fun or because they can. and guess what the word is traveling around in eve Soooo....how about Emobears Quote: <tuxford> Ah yes the Amarrians. Now bear with me apparantly I don't play Amarr or have ever heard of them, I read it on the forums.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.22 11:11:00 - [22] Edited by: Andrue on 22/11/2006 11:14:34 Originally by: MissileRus mayority of empire carebears do kill missions, and those are the missions i think shouldnt be moved to low-sec, the post above me is a perfect candidate of missions to move to low-sec, they are no-risk missions. lvl4 kill missions are a quite high risk. atleast to medium sp players. theres no sutch thing as to relaxing while grinding lvl 4 kill missions as SO MANY want everyone to believe... I agree with that actually. I posted to the missions forums a while back because atm the reward for L4 courier is silly. At least back before they removed a lot of them you really needed a top end industrial (maybe even a freighter) to do them. Moving 150k m3 is what I call working for your ISK :) Right now I'd favour the simple ones going to low-sec and the addition of more complicated ones for high-sec but I think we have to hold off on that. CCP know that they broke the missions and it was us who asked them to put the simple courier missions back in. Let's wait until Kali 2 is being planned before we look at changing them again. Edit:Oh and that 2 hours for 40mill assumes you have instas. If you're talking afk (even with Kali) that will drop. Most missions I run although 99.9% high-sec are over a dozen jumps round trip. Done afk you'd probably only do two an hour so that's 40mil every 8 hours which is only 5mil an hour. That's comparable to mining Pyrox so I think it's acceptable. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless

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