You'll still be able to use them, but this will slow the speed at which they usually hit their targets. We consider that a very good outcome.

Going to go back to the beginning of this thread and start reading it again, for some reason I read it as fleet warping is being removed ?!

So by making life much harder for fcs, especially newer FCs and new bros in general. More stuff will explode?

I had the emphasis on new players and FCs for a reason. But sure, making the game harder and more boring is an improvement correct?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Learning to command and lead takes time, knowledge and experience. Delegation is part of it. As a leader myself I know that to delegate a task, the person delegated must be able to do it. Hence newbros are mostly out of frame foe these tasks. Learning when and what to delegate is harder than it seems as well. A PL fc with a gang of bitter vets will not suffer under these changes. A gang of 1 week old BNIs had a chance before if their fc could lead them well. That just evaporated unless the FC has a core of vets to assist them.

This change is a massive restriction to content enablers. Something CCP in the past has acknowledged they have done in the past is make things hard for these people. So why this change? Apart from it giving Manny a throbbing CSMrection, it has already made life a prospective hell for wormholes and Malcannis Law doesn't apply at all as this clearly isn't intended to help newbies. In a game in which social interaction is key, a change aimed squarely at emphasising small gang, elite gameplay shouldn't be championed by the CSM or the devs at all.

Would be nice if we had more options than Covops, T3 cruisers or T3 destroyers to combat scan with if it's going to become such a major role in fleets. In small gangs (5-6 people) dropping 1 person for covops is a huge hit. T3 cruisers are way out of my budget as hero scan/tackle and so that leaves me with T3 destroyers.

Don't get me wrong, I love T3 destroyers, but surely we could have some other options.

Edit: Spelling etc.

You can't warp to bookmarks at all. Doesn't matter if it's a corp bookmark and everyone in fleet is in the same corp.

I knew it. Sadface. Damn T3s.

this is the most disappointed change EVER, This is a Big change and you never inform us before, very disappointed,

Explain to me, like if I was a little kid, how on earth would removing fleet warps to bookmarks or sigs would improve the individual participation of the members of a fleet?
If you can explain that, then you have my permission.

It worked for Incarnagate. That said, this change is for the best.

There's a difference between having 10000 F1 monkeys and a delegated few in small gang pvp to take on roles. The application of these ideas is foolish. It's another burden on small gang and core content creators. So again I call utter BS. Funny how you say "adapt" yet tout that the role can easily be passed on to other players.

Are you going to fill that role? Are you going to step up and be designated tackle *****? And when you fail and when you screw up a fleet position due to grid issues what then? I seriously doubt you'd fill this role. But for sake of argument I'll entertain the thought of some poor sap getting his ass chewed on TS for screwing the pooch due to these changes.

So now that I ask a question that you don't have an answer to that suits your narrative you decide to bow out? Thank you for reinforcing my point that this change is a very poor way of achieving the desired effect, both in end result effect to bombers and to end result effect to all other ship types this nerf was apparently not intended for.

So this reply chain got a bit specific on the disagreement Querns and I seem to have about this change. I'd like to bring it back to the topic at hand:

Is this change for sure directed specifically at bombers? I didn't watch the o7 youtube video people are mentioning that they claim say this. If the nerf is indeed directed at bombers, then why not simply apply a hull bonus to bombers: Can not receive fleet warps?

Thanks for the compliment even if you meant it as an off the cuff insult. But see here's the disconnect. The reality is people fill many facets and roles in Alliances. In smaller Alliances these roles pass down to a few select people. Placing more burden on these people creates burn out and headaches that in turn create problems.

Every Alliance faces these things small gang not withstanding. But this isn't even really about small gang or low sec. If it were I'm certain yourself or a few select other personalities here wouldn't grace us with such estute opinions. At any rate, my opinion is very strong on these issues because it is but a small piece in the preverbial **** pie CCP is continually forcing down our throats rolling out baseless changes without any forethought or after sight.

I've heard not ONE person praise the icon changes. I've heard not one person like the UI changes. We've endured them because CCP throws them out in patches. And we've continually seen even at the begging of players to give us freedom with ship looks due to the skin bug that CCP is tight fisted as ever clutching every dammed penny since Incarna.

These changes are vieled nerfs to bombing runs that kick everyone else in the balls and their hidden profit generation. CCP isn't stupid. They know FC'a wil make designated grid alts due to these changes. They know they have to for fleets to even get into proper position.

t's all utterly rediculous. But thank you for such a thought-provoking post. I'll make sure to meditate and chew on each letter.

You still fail to give any of us here a positive answer why these changes are GOOD. Picking apart my posts is fine, but trying to tear at my argument from one angle isn't going to get you anywhere. There's also the issue of grid placement, targets getting away, fleet separation due to warp speed variations, survivability of the on grid warp in, landing on different grids due to mechanic issues, fleet movement during travel, squad warping at missions at range due to beacon issues, probing and tackle becoming nigh impossible for hunting low sec supers, designated "tackle" and possible fleet warp in DC'ing in Tidi leading to a fleet spread and out of place etc etc.

I can go on and keep giving reasons and possible issues with just one facet of these changes. But please go on about how it's clearly my misunderstanding or "lack of game skills" or my "alliances leadership" as your means for justification as to why your argument is valid.

Junior FC for Spectre fleet here. NPSI fleets have a lot of newbros participating and they have to rely on the fc to keep them safe in some situations. Lets say im engaging a fleet and something else lands on the grid that i cant fight i have to quickly extract and get my fleet members to relative safety. After this update i will have to tell them to keep bouncing celestials until i land on my safespot and then order them o regroup on me. Newbros will get picked off on the sun. Jayne plz reconsider this you know how hard it is to manage a fleet full of newbros.

Incomplete answer.
If the fleet consists of members of 1 corp, all could warp to a corp BM and (according to your answer) should be able to get fleetwarped there.
If the fleet consists of people that all have the same BM, in either personal or corp BMs, they can all warp to that BM and should (as per your logic) be able to get fleetwarped there.

So, which is it - can't fleetwarp to BMs [period] or can't fleetwarp to locations some of your fleetmembers can't warp themselves to...?

Hi Mates,

The original post has been updated with a few more Q&A's answering some of your questions. We've got a lot of amazing feedback and we're going to go back to the CSM with some ideas. Expect an update next week.

Have a great weekend!

Would you be able to address mixed corp/alliance fleets in the OP as well, or will that be addressed next week?

Fleet participation =/= sitting in space pretending to be a bookmark. That's not very engaging.

Your initial goal from this was to nerf bombers:

Since the initial post on page one, which was quoted in my reply.

I'm sure a bunch of never-log-in metagamers are a fan of a change they'll hardly ever have to experience, let's never mind the opinions of those who you know, actually undock every day and fly spaceships...

With this you will first need to warp a covert ops to it, who will have trouble scanning them because of the warp rigs.

Please reduce CPU requirement of Expanded probe launchers.

Why not increase the scan time for combat probes instead of buggering about with fleet warp?

That is one if their stated goals: "...reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets."

I think the fleet warp change is ridiculous for the player involvement goal anyway. You might get a few extra scouts but the vast majority of fleet members won't do anything different. Surely it would be better to reduce maximum fleet size and nerf target broadcasting for this goal.

Training covops and perfect scanning is a really, really bad way to start eve.

Useful skills perhaps, but a crap day 0 ambition and more importantly, crap experience.

Hahahaha!
The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts?

Feeding the "I want crowd" Logi haven't changed in what? A decade? Now they are a problem? Tier 3s, T3s, etc while the T1s languish. Newbies keep having further and further to go and that is disheartening.

Utility > power.

I can have a fleet made up of just my corp mates, all have access to the corp bookmarks, all are able to warp on their own to these bookmarks and there are NO other Non-Corp fleet members

Just to clarify this:- Can they still fleet warp?

and if not - considering that they meet all the perquisites - why not?

so everyone that click f1 is an f1 monkey.

For clarification (and it may have been clarified already, I admit my eyes started swimming about page 10):

If every member of the fleet has the bookmark - either they're all a member of the same corporation, or you copy the corp bookmark to your cargo hold, hand it to a member of another corp, and they put it in as a corp bookmark - and repeat this process for every corp in the fleet so that everyone in the fleet is capable of warping to that bookmark - are you still unable to warp the fleet to this?

I understand the game balance issues you're looking at, and don't mind them at all in the context of battlefield management, but warping to a POS, anomaly, station insta-dock, etc - it seems a bit much to, in the name of increasing fleet member participation in actual activities, throw up more obstacles in the way of getting to the activities.

To say nothing of 'we have instantaneous superluminal communication across the entire EVE Cluster, but my ship can't transmit coordinates to the other guys 5km away from me even if I were able to read the 3 pairs of numbers off verbally on comms' aspect.

Just seems a little... silly.

Forum warriors with 0 kills are dead weight.

Disclaimer: Probably (most likely) don't know what I'm talking about.

Attackers put 250km range entosis on brick tank. Attackers (Entosis unit) are off plane in relation to standard warp lanes so the defenders have to get a scout on it first. Bubble is between entosis unit and enemy structure (i.e. the only place the enemy fleet can easily warp from.) Rest of attacking fleet at optimal range to blow up anything that gets bubbled. Standard decloaking items floating in space or smartbombs.

So unless the enemy has extreme sniper fits (200+ km range,) they probably won't have enough time to get close enough to the entosis unit to kill it before it cycles. However, if the defender is sniper fit, then the attacking fleet can warp to the defender and savage the under-tanked and under-gunned defenders with short range weapons.

Plus with lag/tidi/1hz server tick, a small defender probe scout (and pod) may not survive long enough to serve as a warp-to point.

Both friendly and enemy ships will want/need refitting abilities to swap between extreme sniping and normal combat fits. Heavy tank probe scouts may be "mandatory" to survive long enough to serve as a fleet warp-to point. Creating corp bookmarks in advance around structures will probably become mandatory for defense and offense (and possibly pre-positioned cloaked ships as well.)




Note to self: grid fu and drag bubbles.

Well, it does mean that if you can build something that moves fast enough and targets far enough, they're gonna have a ***** of a time warping their tacklers onto you...