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extend personal kill rights to allow podding. (like GCC does now)

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Skorpynekomimi E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector 64	Posted - 2012.01.01 17:05:00 - [31] - Quote People with GCC should lose concord protection, and you shouldn't lose sec status for popping or podding them. I had to bail on an ice mining cycle yesterday because of suicide gankers, and spotted one of their pods at the station as I was docking up. Now, if not for concord/sec status loss, I'd have popped my drones and sicced them on his pod.
Harisdrop Vindicate and Deliverance 2	Posted - 2012.01.08 02:30:00 - [32] - Quote Just another thought i think KR should be for a week not just one kill. You can have a free war dec against KR corp and it should be saleable edit. You dont have to enact the KR war dec you can just sell it or give it to an allince/corp
Sed Man Lazy Miners Association 0	Posted - 2012.01.09 12:56:00 - [33] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Make the KRs transferable. And make them OPENLY transferable. Holy mother of god, the chaos at 4-4 that would take place :D
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 469	Posted - 2012.01.09 13:09:00 - [34] - Quote Barakkus wrote: When I first started I was under the impression kill rights meant you could pod them, I disappointed to find out otherwise. I would like to second your disappointment and move for a rule change. The option to transfer kill right would make the "bounty hunter/marshall" a really viable job. With a contract system attached you could really clean house... - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Atticus Fynch 292	Posted - 2012.01.09 14:22:00 - [35] - Quote Add kill rights to contracts. I have a killright on person "xyz." I will pay 500mill for his corpse. Contract is fulfilled when corpse is produced. Something else I would like to see...no expiration to killrights. Eye for an eye...even if it takes years. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 2566	Posted - 2012.01.09 14:51:00 - [36] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=32462 I made a bounty hunting proposal including killrights which specifically allows for pod kills. I see no reason why podkills should be excluded from killrights. It's already sufficiently difficult to capture a pod in empire. Apart from other advantages, pod killing is a valuable ISK-sink and promotes the value of LP Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Misina Arlath Sinister Elite 0	Posted - 2012.01.09 16:22:00 - [37] - Quote The problem is, and always will be, alts. If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang. How would transferrable kill rights be any different? Someone is selling a KR for 500 mill on my head... so I have my alt take the job, pod my clean clone again, and 500 mill reward? Producing the dead corpse wouldn't be a problem either. It's too easily exploitable and rewards noone but the person with the KR on their head in the end (at least if they have a shred of sense). Not sure how to avoid alts simply grabbing the bounty / KR reward, but that is the single reason why bounty system is broken. If they can come up with a fix to that, then we are talking about "cleaning house" and a true bounty hunter role in the game. Granted, you might still have the issue of KR's simply becomming yet another way to trap someone. Then again, at the end of the day, everything in EVE could be a trap. Trying to play a bounty hunter and chasing people should mean you manage to plan and not jump in recklessly. If not, then you deserve to be podkilled in an ambush. Oh, and any contract type of selling KR should never inform the person being hunted who has the kill right. If the person being hunted for a KR gets a notification that oh... it's no longer carebear_1435 who is chasing you but some guy in a major corp, well... so much for chasing your prey and catching them unawares. You get a KR on your head, you should be forced to live in fear until someone jumps your ass out of nowhere. After all, you DID ask for it by getting the KR in the first place.
Barakkus 1481	Posted - 2012.01.09 17:18:00 - [38] - Quote I would actually like to see no security status hit for podding someone who GCC'd. Currently you don't go GCC when podding someone who GCC'd in lowsec, but take a nice big hit to SS. I still will pod people, when I can catch the pod, but not taking the SS hit on criminals would be nice so I can do it more often :) http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Harisdrop Vindicate and Deliverance 2	Posted - 2012.01.09 18:35:00 - [39] - Quote Misina Arlath wrote: The problem is, and always will be, alts. If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang. How would transferrable kill rights be any different? .... Make a contract with the KR I offer the kill rights on Misina Arlath and every corpse you give my you make 5mill for a week. I think that type of kill would be awesome cause you should know how much their clone is and it being a week you can do it over and over. This is not Bounty where Joe blow gets your bounty this is KR. YOu can give the contract to your friend and he will get 5mill per pod and option isk if you felt he won the KR war.
Misina Arlath Sinister Elite 1	Posted - 2012.01.09 19:42:00 - [40] - Quote Aren't killrights lost once you destroy their ship? If you got KR on me, that doesn't mean you can kill me 50 times in a row. Surely, if you limited the contract / transfer to a friend then that is one thing. But placing it on an open bounty hunter "mission board" means anyone, including alt of the offender can take it. Just like bounty system today, aka not working and arguably broken.
Atticus Fynch 296	Posted - 2012.01.09 20:29:00 - [41] - Quote Misina Arlath wrote: The problem is, and always will be, alts. If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang. How would transferrable kill rights be any different? .... You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability. Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP? Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
el alasar The Scope Gallente Federation 143	Posted - 2012.01.09 20:47:00 - [42] - Quote please differentiate between bounty hunting and kill rights. the basic justification for KR in itself is the ability to get revenge - while being not a legal target yourself while hunting the offender. the CSM proposal includes a change - i do not like - that the hunted will be notified who is hunting him as well as the hunter becoming a legal target to the hunted. KR are and probably will be limited to 1 (ship)-kill. whether KR might be transferable in the future or not - i hope a pod-kill will be allowed in the future without sec status loss - thus this thread - because this is currently not the case. everyone agrees that bounty hunting is currently useless as it can be easily exploited: the very core property, that the bounty hunting system is truely p-v-p, is the reason it can easily be exploited. the only solution i know of that works that has been proposed so far is, that there always has to be a cost on one side to be allowed to pay out money to the other side (pay money based on what has been destroyed). any extra outside money injection (e.g. like ratting or pve does) will open room to exploitation. Atticus Fynch wrote: You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability. Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP? it could still be exploited with corp mates or friends in other (npc) corps. check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Harisdrop Vindicate and Deliverance 2	Posted - 2012.01.09 21:25:00 - [43] - Quote KR is not Bounty and I hope that Bounty just goes away the isk for standings route. Really you need to realize why we need Kill Rights. Low-Sec is not null. The ability to kill pilots is not allowed in empire space. Low-sec is not governed by Concord. The empires just allow players to roam in this space without navies or concord. They leave it upto pilots to govern themselves and small guns that are not adequate in removing the threat. I have no problem with this. The pilots that go into low-sec need ramifications of retaliation. If this is a short cut or you are using this space corps/pirates that kill you should not have recourse done on them. We as pilots should be able to kill without loosing our SS . The lose of ship goods and pod can not be rectified by a one kill but its an act of war aggression. I as a miner or moon goo or trader do not have the skills or desire to act upon this war aggression should be able to setup a contract . This contract should allow me not allow pirates to run low sec like null sec. The Empires should allow for a war aggression on the pirate corp. I will restate NPC players should not be able to shoot players. We can not shoot them them. If the NPC players vventure in low sec or null they should get a pop up of ill advisement
Atticus Fynch 299	Posted - 2012.01.10 00:47:00 - [44] - Quote el alasar wrote: it could still be exploited with corp mates or friends in other (npc) corps. True but it wil be more difficult. Offer a corpmate/friend to split a 1 billion bounty on yourself...but there is no guarantee that a corpmate will actually split it with you once done. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757
Misina Arlath Sinister Elite 2	Posted - 2012.01.10 11:58:00 - [45] - Quote Atticus Fynch wrote: Misina Arlath wrote: The problem is, and always will be, alts. If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang. How would transferrable kill rights be any different? .... You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability. Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP? You can't use an alt on the same account, obviously. So it would have to be seperate accounts, which almost everyone in the game have already, wether it's an alt trained in hauling, mining, trading, science, mission running, combat et.c. Also, same pay source doesn't really work since you can use PLEX easily, or simply register one account on your VISA, and the other on your Mastercard or any other payment option you prefer. Easiest of course is using the PLEX. As for the IP, how difficult is it to use a proxy, or simply use a seperate computer or laptop. Are they going to bar you from playing without knowing if it's your 2nd account, your neighbour, or your friend who is simply visiting and connected on your network? Like I said, using alts is the whole reason why it's so easily exploitable. Also, since bounty system is nothing but an information board where you can see who has a bounty and not, it should simply be renamed to "Infamy information board". Especially since you can take no action against the player with a bounty unless you suicidegank them in highsec, or chase them into low and null. A true bounty would be targetting a specific player, with killrights, to claim the bounty. That is where kill rights are a step ahead. Setting the exploit and alts aside for a minute. Someone has a bounty or a killright on them. Someone who are interested in hunting bounties will go to the bounty office, pick up a contract and then have kill rights on the person with the bounty wether it's in null, low or high sec. Targetted person will off course be able to open fire back on the bounty hunter, on sight... however he does not know who the bounty hunter is until they show up as flashing red in local / overview. That is what bounty hunting or taking kill rights contracts should be aimed at. You take the contract and risk being shot down yourself in the process once you engage the target. Once destroyed, or podkilled, you claim the contract and the reward. A different question would be if multiple people should be allowed to take a contract. Chasing down a target that flies with friends in low and null would be pretty tough if you are alone. Could 2-3 people take the same contract, fly in a squad/fleet and the reward being distributed between all players in the fleet whom also have the contract ? Either way... I think we all sorta agree on how we'd like to see it, picking up the contract for a person wether it's for a bounty or a kill right, in order to claim a reward for shooting them down. The problem still is the exploiting side of it.
Sanguine Belroth Ascetic Virtues 11	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:39:00 - [46] - Quote Misina Arlath wrote: The problem is, and always will be, alts. If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang. How would transferrable kill rights be any different? Someone is selling a KR for 500 mill on my head... so I have my alt take the job, pod my clean clone again, and 500 mill reward? Producing the dead corpse wouldn't be a problem either. It's too easily exploitable and rewards noone but the person with the KR on their head in the end (at least if they have a shred of sense). Not sure how to avoid alts simply grabbing the bounty / KR reward, but that is the single reason why bounty system is broken. If they can come up with a fix to that, then we are talking about "cleaning house" and a true bounty hunter role in the game. Granted, you might still have the issue of KR's simply becomming yet another way to trap someone. Then again, at the end of the day, everything in EVE could be a trap. Trying to play a bounty hunter and chasing people should mean you manage to plan and not jump in recklessly. If not, then you deserve to be podkilled in an ambush. Oh, and any contract type of selling KR should never inform the person being hunted who has the kill right. If the person being hunted for a KR gets a notification that oh... it's no longer carebear_1435 who is chasing you but some guy in a major corp, well... so much for chasing your prey and catching them unawares. You get a KR on your head, you should be forced to live in fear until someone jumps your ass out of nowhere. After all, you DID ask for it by getting the KR in the first place. The solution is to have a killrights market. You don't pay people a bounty to kill someone you have killrights on. Bounty Hunters pay you to buy the right to kill the ganker. This way the gankers live in fear, the person who got ganked gets some isk - and the "bounty hunters" get something fun to do - stalk gankers. Why would they do that? For the same reason gankers gank - tears, ransom and loots. A contract system would be a suitable fix. Just start an auction contract with the killrights, and leave it up for a few weeks, and see how much money you can get. Better than your impotent Hauler alt throwing 50million isk on some pirate to harvest for themselves later.
Aamrr 230	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:00:00 - [47] - Quote That's a good idea. A lot of the problem behind kill rights is that tracking down any particular victim takes a lot of effort and isn't really an efficient use of your time. If a vigilante can buy up a collection of kill rights for a few quid, they're far more likely to come across a potential victim as they're out roaming around. And when they're sitting in a paper-tanked tempest waiting for the next victim to show up, that makes them a perfect target. Ideally, the original seller would get a notification when the target is eliminated that included any relevant killmails. No doubt this would soothe their wounded pride -- and maybe prompt a donation... If this catches on, killright prices rise. If it doesn't, killright prices fall until it becomes a more reasonable enterprise. Either way, it's an improvement on the current system.
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 140	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:34:00 - [48] - Quote I suicide gank, with -10 and without. For the longest time, I thought a GCC'd pod was vulnerable, like outlaws, and acted as such. I approve of this, with one small change: Concord no longer kills a GCC'd player after losing the initial ship.... (unless, of course he commits another crime) New GCC would simply would allow other players (and the Faction Navy) to attack you for the duration. Why? Even if the GCC'd player wanted to board a new ship to shoot you, he couldn't - because Concord would instantly destroy it. Outlaw flags allow podding, and navy intervention without bringing the CCP-mandated death. But GCC-flag in its current form means if the GCC'd pod/ship finds a way to win the fight with the 'wannabe carebear podder' - its an exploit, and literally a bannable offense. That, i think, is the main reason why non-outlaw GCC pods are 'protected' by Concord/sec penalties. Allow a GCC'd pod to board a new ship (without intervention) after losing the first ship to Concord, and I'm all for it. Might even lead to some interesting fights (even with the faction navy's thumb on the scale against the GCC'd player)
Cobbler Smith Syntax Error Pancetta 0	Posted - 2012.03.07 20:14:00 - [49] - Quote Absolutely great idea - when can we see it?
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 347	Posted - 2012.03.07 21:19:00 - [50] - Quote Start with a purely puerile idea, let it run a few posts, and it's all over the map. Let's let people target folks in Local, from anywhere in a system and insta-pop them AND their pod - in-station evahn! How's that instead of playing the game as designed? Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
Cipher Jones 343	Posted - 2012.03.07 21:38:00 - [51] - Quote There should never be a pod kill right if they didn't pod you, ever. Every person who helped kill you is on the mail so the right should be transferable, one way, once. Some guy kills you and you cant kill him back, or dont want to, or whatever, you give or sell the kill right. once. to one person. so for a KM with lets say 6 destroyers on a hulk, you could sell or transfer each of the 6 rights once, to 1-6 people. Lets say they podded you. You could sell or transfer each of the rights once, but this time for rights to POD. (There will usually be less people on a pod mail.) 04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed.

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