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el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
as proclaimed in this thread (post #124), the security status penalty for podding people having GCC will be removed soon:
2011.12.06 11:14 CCP Soundwave wrote:I'm going to make this happen. Death to pods! please extend your personal kill rights to allow podding without security status hit. it is the next logical step.
reasoning.
- kill rights can be viewed of as a form of private GCC flag to you.
- implants are a notable factor in pvp and thus should be also be on the table if you enter the pvp arena. implants have a direct impact on your ability to get revenge by killing the criminal's ship.
- revenge should not stop at the ship.
- now that kill mails show implants it should be encouraged to produce more pod goo.
thanks for your time.
see also kill rights to be awarded also against outlaws (currently exploitable). check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
474
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:revenge should not stop at the ship.
All else aside, this is certainly sig worthy. Revenge should not stop at the ship!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |

Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
258
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
hm.
Yeah, that's flawed. Being able to avoid killrights because i'm -5 and raising my sec to -4.9 makes no sense.
That said, i believe that's a minor issue.
The majority of carebears ... ... (haulers that get ganked at gates) ... ... (miners that get ganked at belts) ... ... won't make use of their killrights anyway, simply because they are carebears.
If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead, carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.
That would work. :) Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Jita Alt666
641
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:
If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead, carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.
That would work. :)
I like that idea. Would give greater leverage to being in a good empire corp. Would cause griefers to be more selective in who they choose to gank. Would provide a flagging system that was non consensual.
|

Barakkus
1177
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
When I first started I was under the impression kill rights meant you could pod them, I disappointed to find out otherwise. |

Harisdrop
Cult of Baal
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect.
I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business. |

Autonomous Monster
Paradox Interstellar
37
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
269
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Make the KRs transferable.
And make them OPENLY transferable.
Meaning that:
1. Carebear gets ganked at belt. 2. Carebear does not have time nor skills to get revenge,. 3. Carebear puts KR up on public BB in station transferring KR to anybody who would pick it up - at the bounty office perhaps if this is a subset of the bounty mechanic. 4. Carebear proceeds to Carebear it up, while the uber leet we-are-all-not-worthy-to-play-the-same-MMOs with PVPers can pick up the KR and put their money where their divine keyboards have been all these years. Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout. 5. Profit? 6. On implementation, return to forums to watch high-sec griefer tears flow like a mighty river. |

Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
259
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Harisdrop wrote:To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect.
I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business.
That would, in the end, be the same as wardeccing corporations, so it's not an option. Why ? Because we already have wardecs.
Transferable killrights in this way make no sense, because every ganker can easily obtain the killright with an alt and just kill himself for even more profit.
That's not something that might happen seldomly, that would happen each and every time.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Barakkus
1180
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 22:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Make the KRs transferable.
And make them OPENLY transferable.
Meaning that:
1. Carebear gets ganked at belt. 2. Carebear does not have time nor skills to get revenge,. 3. Carebear puts KR up on public BB in station transferring KR to anybody who would pick it up - at the bounty office perhaps if this is a subset of the bounty mechanic. 4. Carebear proceeds to Carebear it up, while the uber leet we-are-all-not-worthy-to-play-the-same-MMOs with PVPers can pick up the KR and put their money where their divine keyboards have been all these years. Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout. 5. Profit? 6. On implementation, return to forums to watch high-sec griefer tears flow like a mighty river.
Yeah there was a thread a while back on revamping the bounty system and adding something similar. Killrights replacing/enhancing the bounty system would be awesome  |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 23:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Down with implants! UP with PODDING!! Make 'em pay to play.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 01:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Autonomous Monster wrote: CSM transferrable kill rights sound good, but there is a major change to carefully consider: they propose to make the new KR owner/hunter be a legit target towards the hunted!
without this change (making it two-way legit targets), KR could be additionally extended towards a whole corporation.
giving a whole corp KR against 1 target could be cautiously considered, it gave nice n:1 situations, might be considered fair for the cause of revenge. it would facilitate little non-pvp / starter corps to attack skilled pvp players who dared to ever give out KR to noobs or industrialists.
Harisdrop wrote:To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect. I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business. say you have a KR on some player A being in some corp C. do you now want a) your whole corp to transitively get kill rights on A? (if so, see comment above) b) the fleet you are in, consisting of players of any corp, (also not your own) getting KR on A? (this way you could hire mercs to team up with you. it would make hilarious surprises to the KR target. it would need to be that only people on grid with you got rights.) c) your whole corp getting kill rights on any player in C? (this sounds bad. as Solstice Project also pointed out it would be effectively a temporary corp-war, but one-sided! also not sure that other players from C should be punished being legit targets.) check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 01:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Transferable killrights in this way make no sense, because every ganker can easily obtain the kill right with an alt and just kill himself for even more profit. not so fast. a) if there is bounty involved on KR target, currently, without a fix to the bounty sytem, you can collect bounty yourself in ANY way. with or without transferrable KR. no difference. b) with or without bounty, a poor highsec bear might know some people he trusts and could give away the KR to them, so they get legal (and one-sided) targets in highsec without being at war. if bounty was not collected by KR target himself, it might be a bonus for the delegate hunters. c) selling KR currently never works, without a fix to the bounty sytem - i agree there completely! 1. no bounty: nobody would pay for KR (or buy to speculate bounty is going to rise??) 2. bounty available 2.1. sell publicly: alt would buy if contract cheaper than bounty, collect himself. nobody else would buy otherwise. 2.2. sell privately: still carebear's "friends" could still make a deal to split the open bounty minus KR fee between them
if the bounty hunting system was made unexploitable transferable KR would make very much sense!
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout. the very core property, that the bounty hunting system is truely p-v-p, is the reason it can easily be exploited. the only solution i know of that has been proposed so far is, that there always has to be a cost on one side to be allowed to pay out money to the other side. any extra outside money injection (e.g. like ratting or pve does) will open room to exploitation.
there were a few good threads on reforms to the bounty system out there, and i have some more ideas myself, i think i will post a best-of-breed version for you to bash in a few days. several things needed to be changed at one time - and this is probably the reason CCP has not touched it yet - otherwise it will cause "flaws", heave imbalances or enable griefing... check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

BigWaBastage
Big's Bastages HumAnnoyeD
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 03:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bump I like it, not sure about transfering the kill rights, but the corp kill rights is good, and at the very least, the sec status hits should be taken away with kill rights. I think the name says it all, "Kill Rights" |

Sanguine Belroth
Ascetic Virtues
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 03:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Double post... |

Sanguine Belroth
Ascetic Virtues
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 03:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
I there is a missed opportunity here.
If killrights are transferable, you would be able to sell them.
I am sure, in the vast space of eve. There are people who would be keen to gank the gankers.
You probably wouldn't get much for them - except if it was some pirate who was known to rock about in a deadspace Tengu. But I am sure that throwing down a few million ISK, for a collection of griefers, and then roaming around high sec - would be a great evening for a certain type of person.
So the person selling the killrights doesn't make alot of money. But someone might end up killing the person who killed you. This is better than the current situation.
It would also make things much tougher on Gankers. Who can sit afk in sensor boosted paper thing Tempests, while they wait for someone to spot something juicy coming down the pipe. If their killrights didn't belong to some hauler alt. They would have to be alert for a Talos landing on top of them, and ripping them a new one.
Infact gankers might buy up their own kill rights - so that people can't gank them back. Put in place a similar contract auction system, and let the market figure it out. I am confident it would work.
|

Cannibal Kane
Count With Teddy Mercenaries
90
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 05:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
instead of people asking to extend killrights to the corp.
Why not add the ability for said Hauler to assign somebody or sell the killright? Or give him to ability to hire somebody to "take care" of that killright for the hauler? A contract Job if you will.
That cold open a great new proffession in eve. "Demoralize the Enemy from within by Surprise, Terror, Sabotage, Assassination. This method of Guarilla Warfare is the only Method of Warfare for me"
|

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
274
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 06:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
The value of transferable killrights is this:
We see threads in the forums from experienced gankers describing how to "rat up" their security status. Those who do not go minus 5 can maintain a life of ganking easily by doing their ratting in high sec. They can even run LVL 4 missions across two factions (where one enemy in one mission is one pirate faction, another mission in a nearby system is another faction) and that registers when they change systems. So they can milk several level 4 missions for days ratting up good sec status.
This makes the security status hit for suicide ganking a joke.
If they could be hunted in high sec while trying to do this - and possible lowsec too since the KR goes from the hands of a carebear to someone who does not mind hunting in lowsec - this would make ratting up more difficult. This would not affect those who bot in null and only come to high sec to gank, but it would make life harder for those who are not set up in 0.0 and can take refuge there to rat up.
It would also promote PVP - and suicide gankers say they are all about PVP, and PVP is what EvE is all about, and everybody needs to HTFU. So changes in KR and transfers would give them a chance to put their ISK where their keyboards have been all these years.
|

supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 07:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
lol make kill rights for pod kills...
Podded a dude yesterday in HS... no KR's LOL!!!!
Idk I found it funny... pop ship... KR's Pop pod... nothing. |

Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
264
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The value of transferable killrights is this:
We see threads in the forums from experienced gankers describing how to "rat up" their security status. Those who do not go minus 5 can maintain a life of ganking easily by doing their ratting in high sec. They can even run LVL 4 missions across two factions (where one enemy in one mission is one pirate faction, another mission in a nearby system is another faction) and that registers when they change systems. So they can milk several level 4 missions for days ratting up good sec status.
This makes the security status hit for suicide ganking a joke.
If they could be hunted in high sec while trying to do this - and possible lowsec too since the KR goes from the hands of a carebear to someone who does not mind hunting in lowsec - this would make ratting up more difficult. This would not affect those who bot in null and only come to high sec to gank, but it would make life harder for those who are not set up in 0.0 and can take refuge there to rat up.
It would also promote PVP - and suicide gankers say they are all about PVP, and PVP is what EvE is all about, and everybody needs to HTFU. So changes in KR and transfers would give them a chance to put their ISK where their keyboards have been all these years.
The security status hit is a joke any way, because gankers do not need to care about their sec status.
Being -5 or lower does not keep them from doing what they are doing, it doesn't even make it harder for them to do it.
The only thing it really changes is, that they can be shot at, which doesn't really help those who get shot by them. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

ganks theman
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 09:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
mining for pvp time go hit the rocks |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
105
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
so when somene gets GCC you are soon allowed to pod him, but if he illegally ship-killed you or even podded you, you will still not be allowed to pod him without sec status hit?! come on. any more voices on this? at least nobody objected so far ;)
yes, transferable kill rights do have their merit, that is probably the reason CSM has almost unamimously voted for it. although i am not sure i favor making the hunter a legal target to the hunted, because that would really change KR effects after a transfer and dilute the cause of revenge.
altough, as pointed out, selling transferable KR would right now - while bounties still being exploitable - not make much sense, it can still enable non-pvp focussed or new players to indirectly get revenge through people who have honest fun in hunting. but one thing at a time - lets get podding rights for KR first! check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

Myrdraeus Keaunt
Physical Chaos
12
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 20:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Make the KRs transferable.
And make them OPENLY transferable.
Meaning that:
1. Carebear gets ganked at belt. 2. Carebear does not have time nor skills to get revenge,. 3. Carebear puts KR up on public BB in station transferring KR to anybody who would pick it up - at the bounty office perhaps if this is a subset of the bounty mechanic. 4. Carebear proceeds to Carebear it up, while the uber leet we-are-all-not-worthy-to-play-the-same-MMOs with PVPers can pick up the KR and put their money where their divine keyboards have been all these years. Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout. 5. Profit? 6. On implementation, return to forums to watch high-sec griefer tears flow like a mighty river.
Couldn't I just gank someone and then have my main hired to kill me? Then I just warp somewhere in a cheap clone and gank myself. It's not like I haven't podded my own alts before...
At any rate, the bounty and KR system does need some lovin'. Might make being a criminal more interesting, or it might just turn into another way to make profit.... |

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
336
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 21:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
eye for an eye, not eye for a heart. I'm a ******* profanity filter that can catch **** and *****, but fuckin little else. -á
|

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 22:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
If the criminal only killed a ship, then the kill right should only extend to his own ship. If the criminal killed a pod, then the kill right should extend to both his ship and his pod. Extending GCC flags to pods is tolerable.
As an aside, I find the "griefer tears will flow" comments by the usual suspects hilarious. These people are operating on a set of amazingly ignorant assumptions that (a) all "griefer criminal scumbag virgins" use expensive implant sets during ganking, (b) don't know, unlike carebears, how to save their own pods from destruction, and (c) would cry if they did lose pods with implants.
Frankly, I wish that the whole security status system would simply go away. Leave CONCORD and criminal flags intact, but get rid of the ridiculous segregation mechanic. I posted the a long time ago, but I still believe it would work as a good alternative:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:First and foremost, allow kill rights to be sellable to others. Possibly remove their month-long duration, or increase it to a much longer period of time. Also allow the sales to be revoked (or set time limits), to prevent the alts of "criminals" from "buying" the kill rights and making them expire/collecting them themselves.
Make the whole system work through the contracts interface. Allow the setting of such values as:
- Ships that can be destroyed to count towards contract completion - Minimum loss values to be caused to count towards contract completion - The reward amount - A collateral deposit fee (can make this auction-style, to let bounty hunters make bids)
The last item on that list, the collateral deposit fee, would essentially allow the victim of a crime to recoup some of his/her losses, regardless of the bounty hunter's success or failure. Of course the reward money is coming out of the victim's wallet too, but that buys satisfaction upon the criminal's death.
Now, since this whole system would be automated by the game, when ship destruction occurs, the loss value is calculated much like current insurance prices; via some kind of real-time market index based on minerals/base T2 components/Sleeper salvage. Or just flat-out use the insurance index, and assign some kind of multiplier system for T2 and T3 ships so that the values are fairly calculated. |

leoplusma
Delfus Inc. HumAnnoyeD
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 23:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
agree; send them back where they came from |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 15:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
bump check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 16:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
bump check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
227
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 17:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
transferable killrights would give rise to a bounty hunter profession (and most likely replace bounties with something that actually works as intended)
CSM LETS DO THIS! |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 16:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
new year bump. check the moderated little ideas/10000 papercuts/low hanging fruit article! comment, bump(!) and like what you like: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts |

Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.01 17:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
People with GCC should lose concord protection, and you shouldn't lose sec status for popping or podding them. I had to bail on an ice mining cycle yesterday because of suicide gankers, and spotted one of their pods at the station as I was docking up. Now, if not for concord/sec status loss, I'd have popped my drones and sicced them on his pod. |

Harisdrop
Vindicate and Deliverance
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 02:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Just another thought i think KR should be for a week not just one kill.
You can have a free war dec against KR corp and it should be saleable
edit.
You dont have to enact the KR war dec you can just sell it or give it to an allince/corp |

Sed Man
Lazy Miners Association
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 12:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Make the KRs transferable.
And make them OPENLY transferable.
Holy mother of god, the chaos at 4-4 that would take place :D |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
469
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 13:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:When I first started I was under the impression kill rights meant you could pod them, I disappointed to find out otherwise.
I would like to second your disappointment and move for a rule change.
The option to transfer kill right would make the "bounty hunter/marshall" a really viable job. With a contract system attached you could really clean house... - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Atticus Fynch
292
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 14:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Add kill rights to contracts.
I have a killright on person "xyz." I will pay 500mill for his corpse.
Contract is fulfilled when corpse is produced.
Something else I would like to see...no expiration to killrights.
Eye for an eye...even if it takes years. Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757 |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
2566
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 14:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=32462
I made a bounty hunting proposal including killrights which specifically allows for pod kills. I see no reason why podkills should be excluded from killrights. It's already sufficiently difficult to capture a pod in empire.
Apart from other advantages, pod killing is a valuable ISK-sink and promotes the value of LP Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Misina Arlath
Sinister Elite
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 16:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
The problem is, and always will be, alts.
If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang.
How would transferrable kill rights be any different?
Someone is selling a KR for 500 mill on my head... so I have my alt take the job, pod my clean clone again, and 500 mill reward? Producing the dead corpse wouldn't be a problem either.
It's too easily exploitable and rewards noone but the person with the KR on their head in the end (at least if they have a shred of sense).
Not sure how to avoid alts simply grabbing the bounty / KR reward, but *that* is the single reason why bounty system is broken. If they can come up with a fix to that, then we are talking about "cleaning house" and a true bounty hunter role in the game.
Granted, you might still have the issue of KR's simply becomming yet another way to trap someone.
Then again, at the end of the day, everything in EVE could be a trap. Trying to play a bounty hunter and chasing people should mean you manage to plan and not jump in recklessly. If not, then you deserve to be podkilled in an ambush.
Oh, and any contract type of selling KR should never inform the person being hunted who has the kill right. If the person being hunted for a KR gets a notification that oh... it's no longer carebear_1435 who is chasing you but some guy in a major corp, well... so much for chasing your prey and catching them unawares.
You get a KR on your head, you should be forced to live in fear until someone jumps your ass out of nowhere. After all, you DID ask for it by getting the KR in the first place. |

Barakkus
1481
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 17:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
I would actually like to see no security status hit for podding someone who GCC'd. Currently you don't go GCC when podding someone who GCC'd in lowsec, but take a nice big hit to SS.
I still will pod people, when I can catch the pod, but not taking the SS hit on criminals would be nice so I can do it more often :) http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc |

Harisdrop
Vindicate and Deliverance
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 18:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Misina Arlath wrote:The problem is, and always will be, alts.
If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang.
How would transferrable kill rights be any different? ....
Make a contract with the KR
I offer the kill rights on Misina Arlath and every corpse you give my you make 5mill for a week.
I think that type of kill would be awesome cause you should know how much their clone is and it being a week you can do it over and over. This is not Bounty where Joe blow gets your bounty this is KR.
YOu can give the contract to your friend and he will get 5mill per pod and option isk if you felt he won the KR war. |

Misina Arlath
Sinister Elite
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 19:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aren't killrights lost once you destroy their ship?
If you got KR on me, that doesn't mean you can kill me 50 times in a row.
Surely, if you limited the contract / transfer to a friend then that is one thing. But placing it on an open bounty hunter "mission board" means anyone, including alt of the offender can take it. Just like bounty system today, aka not working and arguably broken. |

Atticus Fynch
296
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 20:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Misina Arlath wrote:The problem is, and always will be, alts.
If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang.
How would transferrable kill rights be any different? ....
You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability.
Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP?
Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757 |

el alasar
The Scope Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2012.01.09 20:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
please differentiate between bounty hunting and kill rights.
the basic justification for KR in itself is the ability to get revenge - while being not a legal target yourself while hunting the offender. the CSM proposal includes a change - i do not like - that the hunted will be notified who is hunting him as well as the hunter becoming a legal target to the hunted. KR are and probably will be limited to 1 (ship)-kill. whether KR might be transferable in the future or not - i hope a pod-kill will be allowed in the future without sec status loss - thus this thread - because this is currently not the case.
everyone agrees that bounty hunting is currently useless as it can be easily exploited: the very core property, that the bounty hunting system is truely p-v-p, is the reason it can easily be exploited. the only solution i know of that works that has been proposed so far is, that there always has to be a cost on one side to be allowed to pay out money to the other side (pay money based on what has been destroyed). any extra outside money injection (e.g. like ratting or pve does) will open room to exploitation.
Atticus Fynch wrote:You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability.
Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP?
it could still be exploited with corp mates or friends in other (npc) corps. check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts
comment, bump(!) and like what you like |

Harisdrop
Vindicate and Deliverance
2
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Posted - 2012.01.09 21:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
KR is not Bounty and I hope that Bounty just goes away the isk for standings route.
Really you need to realize why we need Kill Rights.
Low-Sec is not null. The ability to kill pilots is not allowed in empire space. Low-sec is not governed by Concord. The empires just allow players to roam in this space without navies or concord. They leave it upto pilots to govern themselves and small guns that are not adequate in removing the threat. I have no problem with this.
The pilots that go into low-sec need ramifications of retaliation. If this is a short cut or you are using this space corps/pirates that kill you should not have recourse done on them. We as pilots should be able to kill without loosing our SS . The lose of ship goods and pod can not be rectified by a one kill but its an act of war aggression. I as a miner or moon goo or trader do not have the skills or desire to act upon this war aggression should be able to setup a contract . This contract should allow me not allow pirates to run low sec like null sec. The Empires should allow for a war aggression on the pirate corp.
I will restate NPC players should not be able to shoot players. We can not shoot them them. If the NPC players vventure in low sec or null they should get a pop up of ill advisement |

Atticus Fynch
299
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Posted - 2012.01.10 00:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
el alasar wrote:
it could still be exploited with corp mates or friends in other (npc) corps.
True but it wil be more difficult. Offer a corpmate/friend to split a 1 billion bounty on yourself...but there is no guarantee that a corpmate will actually split it with you once done. 
Ideas to balance carebears and non-combat ships. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=605757&#post605757 |

Misina Arlath
Sinister Elite
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 11:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Misina Arlath wrote:The problem is, and always will be, alts.
If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang.
How would transferrable kill rights be any different? .... You mean there is absolutely no way to keep track of the alts on an account? This is a"computer" game right? Computers can do an amazing number of things these days limited only by the programmers ability. Failsafes: do multiple accounts share the same email? Share the same pay source/credit card? Have the same IP?
You can't use an alt on the same account, obviously. So it would have to be seperate accounts, which almost everyone in the game have already, wether it's an alt trained in hauling, mining, trading, science, mission running, combat et.c.
Also, same pay source doesn't really work since you can use PLEX easily, or simply register one account on your VISA, and the other on your Mastercard or any other payment option you prefer. Easiest of course is using the PLEX.
As for the IP, how difficult is it to use a proxy, or simply use a seperate computer or laptop. Are they going to bar you from playing without knowing if it's your 2nd account, your neighbour, or your friend who is simply visiting and connected on your network?
Like I said, using alts is the whole reason why it's so easily exploitable.
Also, since bounty system is nothing but an information board where you can see who has a bounty and not, it should simply be renamed to "Infamy information board". Especially since you can take no action against the player with a bounty unless you suicidegank them in highsec, or chase them into low and null. A true bounty would be targetting a specific player, with killrights, to claim the bounty.
That is where kill rights are a step ahead.
Setting the exploit and alts aside for a minute.
Someone has a bounty or a killright on them. Someone who are interested in hunting bounties will go to the bounty office, pick up a contract and then have kill rights on the person with the bounty wether it's in null, low or high sec. Targetted person will off course be able to open fire back on the bounty hunter, on sight... however he does not know who the bounty hunter is until they show up as flashing red in local / overview.
That is what bounty hunting or taking kill rights contracts should be aimed at. You take the contract and risk being shot down yourself in the process once you engage the target. Once destroyed, or podkilled, you claim the contract and the reward.
A different question would be if multiple people should be allowed to take a contract. Chasing down a target that flies with friends in low and null would be pretty tough if you are alone. Could 2-3 people take the same contract, fly in a squad/fleet and the reward being distributed between all players in the fleet whom also have the contract ?
Either way...
I think we all sorta agree on how we'd like to see it, picking up the contract for a person wether it's for a bounty or a kill right, in order to claim a reward for shooting them down.
The problem still is the exploiting side of it. |

Sanguine Belroth
Ascetic Virtues
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 06:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
Misina Arlath wrote:The problem is, and always will be, alts.
If you get 500mill bounty on yourself, you can just jump to an implant clean clone then pod yourself with your alt to have alt claim the whole shebang.
How would transferrable kill rights be any different?
Someone is selling a KR for 500 mill on my head... so I have my alt take the job, pod my clean clone again, and 500 mill reward? Producing the dead corpse wouldn't be a problem either.
It's too easily exploitable and rewards noone but the person with the KR on their head in the end (at least if they have a shred of sense).
Not sure how to avoid alts simply grabbing the bounty / KR reward, but *that* is the single reason why bounty system is broken. If they can come up with a fix to that, then we are talking about "cleaning house" and a true bounty hunter role in the game.
Granted, you might still have the issue of KR's simply becomming yet another way to trap someone.
Then again, at the end of the day, everything in EVE could be a trap. Trying to play a bounty hunter and chasing people should mean you manage to plan and not jump in recklessly. If not, then you deserve to be podkilled in an ambush.
Oh, and any contract type of selling KR should never inform the person being hunted who has the kill right. If the person being hunted for a KR gets a notification that oh... it's no longer carebear_1435 who is chasing you but some guy in a major corp, well... so much for chasing your prey and catching them unawares.
You get a KR on your head, you should be forced to live in fear until someone jumps your ass out of nowhere. After all, you DID ask for it by getting the KR in the first place.
The solution is to have a killrights market. You don't pay people a bounty to kill someone you have killrights on. Bounty Hunters pay you to buy the right to kill the ganker. This way the gankers live in fear, the person who got ganked gets some isk - and the "bounty hunters" get something fun to do - stalk gankers. Why would they do that? For the same reason gankers gank - tears, ransom and loots. A contract system would be a suitable fix. Just start an auction contract with the killrights, and leave it up for a few weeks, and see how much money you can get. Better than your impotent Hauler alt throwing 50million isk on some pirate to harvest for themselves later.
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Aamrr
230
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Posted - 2012.01.17 07:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
That's a good idea. A lot of the problem behind kill rights is that tracking down any particular victim takes a lot of effort and isn't really an efficient use of your time. If a vigilante can buy up a collection of kill rights for a few quid, they're far more likely to come across a potential victim as they're out roaming around. And when they're sitting in a paper-tanked tempest waiting for the next victim to show up, that makes them a perfect target.
Ideally, the original seller would get a notification when the target is eliminated that included any relevant killmails. No doubt this would soothe their wounded pride -- and maybe prompt a donation...
If this catches on, killright prices rise. If it doesn't, killright prices fall until it becomes a more reasonable enterprise. Either way, it's an improvement on the current system. |

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 11:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
I suicide gank, with -10 and without.
For the longest time, I thought a GCC'd pod was vulnerable, like outlaws, and acted as such.
I approve of this, with one small change:
Concord no longer kills a GCC'd player after losing the initial ship.... (unless, of course he commits another crime)
New GCC would simply would allow other players (and the Faction Navy) to attack you for the duration.
Why?
Even if the GCC'd player wanted to board a new ship to shoot you, he couldn't - because Concord would instantly destroy it.
Outlaw flags allow podding, and navy intervention without bringing the CCP-mandated death.
But GCC-flag in its current form means if the GCC'd pod/ship finds a way to win the fight with the 'wannabe carebear podder' - its an exploit, and literally a bannable offense.
That, i think, is the main reason why non-outlaw GCC pods are 'protected' by Concord/sec penalties.
Allow a GCC'd pod to board a new ship (without intervention) after losing the first ship to Concord, and I'm all for it. Might even lead to some interesting fights (even with the faction navy's thumb on the scale against the GCC'd player) |

Cobbler Smith
Syntax Error Pancetta
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 20:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Absolutely great idea - when can we see it? |

Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
347
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 21:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Start with a purely puerile idea, let it run a few posts, and it's all over the map. Let's let people target folks in Local, from anywhere in a system and insta-pop them AND their pod - in-station evahn! How's that instead of playing the game as designed?
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |

Cipher Jones
343
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 21:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
There should never be a pod kill right if they didn't pod you, ever. Every person who helped kill you is on the mail so the right should be transferable, one way, once. Some guy kills you and you cant kill him back, or dont want to, or whatever, you give or sell the kill right. once. to one person.
so for a KM with lets say 6 destroyers on a hulk, you could sell or transfer each of the 6 rights once, to 1-6 people.
Lets say they podded you. You could sell or transfer each of the rights once, but this time for rights to POD. (There will usually be less people on a pod mail.)
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
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