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Notnearly OnEnough Minmatar JumpDrive Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Notnearly OnEnough on 22/11/2006 16:22:27 (edit typo) I have read lots about Jump to zero. Being a bit of an industrialist I look forward to something better than 15KM and not using instaBMs I can also see the stopping of BM sales on sites such as EBAY. But I think it should not be a simple gift. There are many things we do in eve that we have to work for. I think that a consideration should be given to a new LOW SLOT device Navigation computer, advanced nav computer, medium nav computer, large and capital.. With skill levels to run the new LOW fitting trainable appropriate for each LEVEL 1 gets you from 15km to 12km LEVEL 2 gets you from 12km to 9km LEVEL 3 gets you from 9km to 6km LEVEL 4 gets you from 6km to 3km and level 5 gets you from 3km to 0km Time frame for training something along the lines of training for AStrogeology or an advanced step from navigation Thoughts on this?
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:23:00 - [2] people will just use bookmarks rather than gimp their setups, lag will still rule eve
Alhambra Rainwalker Caldari Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:24:00 - [3] Personally I don't consider training (waiting) skill to be work. Making it skill just forces more training on new people, and they already have more than enough on their plate.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:25:00 - [4] No more unnecessary skills. Simple fix. 1) Remove all 100km bookmarks near celestial objects. 2) Add Warp to 5km/7.5km. No WTZ. 3) If you want instas. Fix a MWD. 4) Buff haulers so all have enough grid for MWD. Nanofiber, inertial stabs, MWD ... win. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:26:00 - [5] Originally by: Notnearly OnEnough But I think it should not be a simple gift. and why not?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:27:00 - [6] Originally by: tyrol Originally by: Notnearly OnEnough But I think it should not be a simple gift. and why not? Instas are bad for the game and WTZ are also bad for the game? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No more unnecessary skills. Simple fix. 1) Remove all 100km bookmarks near celestial objects. 2) Add Warp to 5km/7.5km. No WTZ. 3) If you want instas. Fix a MWD. 4) Buff haulers so all have enough grid for MWD. Nanofiber, inertial stabs, MWD ... win. so the chances of running a non bubbled camp are reduced to virtually zero?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:29:00 - [8] Originally by: tyrol Originally by: Jenny Spitfire No more unnecessary skills. Simple fix. 1) Remove all 100km bookmarks near celestial objects. 2) Add Warp to 5km/7.5km. No WTZ. 3) If you want instas. Fix a MWD. 4) Buff haulers so all have enough grid for MWD. Nanofiber, inertial stabs, MWD ... win. so the chances of running a non bubbled camp are reduced to virtually zero? How? It wont be any different to WTZ. If there is a bubble, you will still land whatever distance off gate. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:30:00 - [9] i said NON bubbled camp any ship with poor acceleration wont make it to the gate before being webbed. anything other than warp to 0 will be horrible if they remove instas
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:31:00 - [10] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:34:11 Originally by: tyrol i said NON bubbled camp any ship with poor acceleration wont make it to the gate before being webbed. anything other than warp to 0 will be horrible if they remove instas Inertia stabs + Nanofibers + MWD? You will be surprised at what haulers can do. Quote: so the chances of running a non bubbled camp are reduced to virtually zero? My English is crap. I read it as you will not die in a non bubbled camp? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:33:00 - [11] surely were not only talking about haulers though. without instas or warp to zero slow ships will be too easy to catch, you wont need bubbles anymore, just a fast locking ship with a web.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:35:00 - [12] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:35:04 Originally by: tyrol surely were not only talking about haulers though. without instas or warp to zero slow ships will be too easy to catch, you wont need bubbles anymore, just a fast locking ship with a web. Is that not what interceptors are for, to intercept? --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:34:11 Originally by: tyrol i said NON bubbled camp any ship with poor acceleration wont make it to the gate before being webbed. anything other than warp to 0 will be horrible if they remove instas Inertia stabs + Nanofibers + MWD? You will be surprised at what haulers can do. Unless they can cross that distance faster than they align and warp, they'll still die. Also... webs? ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:37:00 - [14] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:37:47 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:34:11 Originally by: tyrol i said NON bubbled camp any ship with poor acceleration wont make it to the gate before being webbed. anything other than warp to 0 will be horrible if they remove instas Inertia stabs + Nanofibers + MWD? You will be surprised at what haulers can do. Unless they can cross that distance faster than they align and warp, they'll still die. Also... webs? Are we talking about warp to gate or warp from gate? If warp to gate, it doesnt matter. You drop out of warp and MWD towards gate. If warp from gate, WTZ or WTX will not be different. WTZ and instas are broken and bad game mechanics. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
stay puff	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:38:00 - [15] hey why dont we just warp to 0 and be done with it as its been pointed out about 150 times so far anything less and people will still make bkmks. good lord people this isnt rocket science.. well ok maybe it is but you get the point
Notnearly OnEnough Minmatar JumpDrive Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Notnearly OnEnough on 22/11/2006 16:40:33 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Instas are bad for the game and WTZ are also bad for the game? I think WTZ is very bad. Not for the pirate camp aspect. they will still camp belts etc. But it will open up all of eve for industrial free trade. (you're going to ask, why is that bad?) well, We have all seen the markets driven down by (OOG) "foreign miners" who mine countless hours to sell ISK on the internet. Now they will be able manufacture items and then use cheap labor to freely travel to systems where good/ore/whatever sells higher and have even more ISK from the easy access to profit with out risk of ship loss due to WTZ.... I see a bad thing coming on the horizon and it isn't amarrian... IMHO
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:34:11 Originally by: tyrol i said NON bubbled camp any ship with poor acceleration wont make it to the gate before being webbed. anything other than warp to 0 will be horrible if they remove instas Inertia stabs + Nanofibers + MWD? You will be surprised at what haulers can do. Unless they can cross that distance faster than they align and warp, they'll still die. Also... webs? Are we talking about warp to gate or warp from gate? If warp to gate, it doesnt matter. You drop out of warp and MWD towards gate. If warp from gate, WTZ or WTX will not be different. My point is haulers die to ships without webbers or scramblers when warping off gates. They aren't particularly slow, it's just some ships can bring massive firepower to bear very fast. If they take any longer than this align time to approach the gate with their MWD, they become even easier targets ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:41:00 - [18] im talking about warping to the gate. lets take ec-p8r for example, a system i have to travel frequently. say im in a combat ship and need to head back to torrinos for any particular reason, at present i can insta to the gate, providing there is no bubble, im home free. remove my insta and make me warp to 7.5, im probably dead if theres an inty with a dual web. im an armour tanker, if i have to fill my lows with nanos and inertial stabs, then i might as well stay docked unless theres a gang going who can protect me.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:43:00 - [19] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:43:44 Originally by: Crumplecorn My point is haulers die to ships without webbers or scramblers when warping off gates. They aren't particularly slow, it's just some ships can bring massive firepower to bear very fast. If they take any longer than this align time to approach the gate with their MWD, they become even easier targets By that logic, ask CCP to put in /pvp flag. Your explanation shows why WTZ and instas should never be allowed in TQ. I might as well ask CCP to give me Teleport to location. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:46:00 - [20] Originally by: tyrol im talking about warping to the gate. lets take ec-p8r for example, a system i have to travel frequently. say im in a combat ship and need to head back to torrinos for any particular reason, at present i can insta to the gate, providing there is no bubble, im home free. That is a good game mechanic? Look <player>, you can not kill me. Nananananananananah. I am invincible. Quote: remove my insta and make me warp to 7.5, im probably dead if theres an inty with a dual web. im an armour tanker, if i have to fill my lows with nanos and inertial stabs, then i might as well stay docked unless theres a gang going who can protect me. Fit a MWD? Ask friend to escort or provide cover for your solo BS? Why not next time plan ahead if you can not do a full op, do not fly a battleship! --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Sahjahn Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:46:00 - [21] I don't understand why they don't just simply prevent any bookmark being made within a 30Km radius of a gate. That will remove most if not all instas, it will mean that fast ships ARE faster than slow haulers (as it's still jump to 15K for a gate) and pirates will still be happy. Personally i don't care and am happy for jump to 0 but i agree it will make it kinda easy.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Crumplecorn Are we talking about warp to gate or warp from gate? If warp to gate, it doesnt matter. You drop out of warp and MWD towards gate. If warp from gate, WTZ or WTX will not be different. My point is haulers die to ships without webbers or scramblers when warping off gates. They aren't particularly slow, it's just some ships can bring massive firepower to bear very fast. If they take any longer than this align time to approach the gate with their MWD, they become even easier targets By that logic, ask CCP to put in /pvp flag. Your explanation shows why WTZ and instas should never be allowed in TQ. I might as well ask CCP to give me Teleport to location. Why? At the moment haulers can be stopped by 'headshotting' BSes, tackler gangs, bubbles, and interdictors who magically appear right on top of you as you appear in the system (). Basically a competent camp will catch a hauler. An incompetent one will not. You want to make it so 2 frigates with webs are guaranteed death for any hauler. Easy mode FTW? ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Sahjahn I don't understand why they don't just simply prevent any bookmark being made within a 30Km radius of a gate. That will remove most if not all instas, it will mean that fast ships ARE faster than slow haulers (as it's still jump to 15K for a gate) and pirates will still be happy. Personally i don't care and am happy for jump to 0 but i agree it will make it kinda easy. Ya, not having a ******* clue what you are talking about FTW, ya? ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Sahjahn I don't understand why they don't just simply prevent any bookmark being made within a 30Km radius of a gate. That will remove most if not all instas, it will mean that fast ships ARE faster than slow haulers (as it's still jump to 15K for a gate) and pirates will still be happy. Personally i don't care and am happy for jump to 0 but i agree it will make it kinda easy. no easier than it already is with bookmarks, at least a lot of the lag will go away, why some people cant be happy with that i dont know. anyway, im gonna bow out of this thread as its already been flogged too many times for my liking
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:50:00 - [25] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:50:08 Originally by: Crumplecorn Why? At the moment haulers can be stopped by 'headshotting' BSes, tackler gangs, bubbles, and interdictors who magically appear right on top of you as you appear in the system (). Basically a competent camp will catch a hauler. An incompetent one will not. You want to make it so 2 frigates with webs are guaranteed death for any hauler. Easy mode FTW? They are haulers. No escort or scout and if you are intercepted by a lone frigate or frigates. You deserve to die. Why not ask CCP to remove mass and add agility to freighters? WTZ + freighters == Sexy. No need scout. Oh wait, freighters are not solo ships, cant fit any mod. Do you see the logic? Why do I bother any more. My last post. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
tyrol E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: tyrol im talking about warping to the gate. lets take ec-p8r for example, a system i have to travel frequently. say im in a combat ship and need to head back to torrinos for any particular reason, at present i can insta to the gate, providing there is no bubble, im home free. That is a good game mechanic? Look <player>, you can not kill me. Nananananananananah. I am invincible. Quote: remove my insta and make me warp to 7.5, im probably dead if theres an inty with a dual web. im an armour tanker, if i have to fill my lows with nanos and inertial stabs, then i might as well stay docked unless theres a gang going who can protect me. Fit a MWD? Ask friend to escort or provide cover for your solo BS? Why not next time plan ahead if you can not do a full op, do not fly a battleship! ok, not bowing out til ive answered this who said anything about a bs? even a cruiser can be locked down by a webbing inty before they can accelerate. and by what your saying, your wanting to make eve a totally gang orientated game. i plan ahead by making sure my instas are in order. now your saying i should sit ina station until i have friends online who can waste their time escorting me everywhere. and what about this "That is a good game mechanic? Look <player>, you can not kill me. Nananananananananah. I am invincible." now it will be a gang sitting on a gate with a few webbing inties shouting "naaaanaaannaaanaaana, you cant get past us" do you actually play this game or just sit in the forums all day?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/11/2006 16:50:08 Originally by: Crumplecorn Why? At the moment haulers can be stopped by 'headshotting' BSes, tackler gangs, bubbles, and interdictors who magically appear right on top of you as you appear in the system (). Basically a competent camp will catch a hauler. An incompetent one will not. You want to make it so 2 frigates with webs are guaranteed death for any hauler. Easy mode FTW? They are haulers. No escort or scout and if you are intercepted by a lone frigate or frigates. You deserve to die. Why not ask CCP to remove mass and add agility to freighters? WTZ + freighters == Sexy. No need scout. Oh wait, freighters are not solo ships, cant fit any mod. Do you see the logic? Why do I bother any more. My last post. If I am 'intercepted' yes, but if they just sit on a gate waiting? You are saying the bar for a 'good' gatecamp should be lowered to a pair of frigates? Easy mode indeed, if that had come to pass I'd have been out there ganking haulers, dual webbing MWDing blasterax, sit on the gate, see a target, lock, web to stop them getting to the gate, ram them at around 1000m/s to stop them aligning to anything any time this century, and pop they go. Rinse and repeat. Look out guys, there's a cruiser in the pipe, better get an escort!!!one ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:57:00 - [28] Originally by: tyrol Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: tyrol im talking about warping to the gate. lets take ec-p8r for example, a system i have to travel frequently. say im in a combat ship and need to head back to torrinos for any particular reason, at present i can insta to the gate, providing there is no bubble, im home free. That is a good game mechanic? Look <player>, you can not kill me. Nananananananananah. I am invincible. Quote: remove my insta and make me warp to 7.5, im probably dead if theres an inty with a dual web. im an armour tanker, if i have to fill my lows with nanos and inertial stabs, then i might as well stay docked unless theres a gang going who can protect me. Fit a MWD? Ask friend to escort or provide cover for your solo BS? Why not next time plan ahead if you can not do a full op, do not fly a battleship! ok, not bowing out til ive answered this who said anything about a bs? even a cruiser can be locked down by a webbing inty before they can accelerate. and by what your saying, your wanting to make eve a totally gang orientated game. i plan ahead by making sure my instas are in order. now your saying i should sit ina station until i have friends online who can waste their time escorting me everywhere. and what about this "That is a good game mechanic? Look <player>, you can not kill me. Nananananananananah. I am invincible." now it will be a gang sitting on a gate with a few webbing inties shouting "naaaanaaannaaanaaana, you cant get past us" do you actually play this game or just sit in the forums all day? MWD + whatever ship over 2.5km or 5km is not a lot of ground to cover. If you have no escorts or scouts or intel, you deserve to die solo hauling in 0.0. If they aggro, they cant jump. Kali has given every HP buffs. If you cant run a frig camp in a cruiser, I think you better learn more about EvE. I heard it had a steep learning curve. I am convoing in this thread and replies are fast. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
StarStryder Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.22 16:59:00 - [29] I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem is the webbers. They are simply too effective when compared to their counters (ABs and MWDs). Reduce webber effectiveness and make it maybe 5-10km.
Bael'Zhaeron Minmatar Crabbs	Posted - 2006.11.22 17:01:00 - [30] I feel like warp to 0 is a cheap escape for CCP. Before the flaming begins hear me out. Before instas became standard in eve the universe felt vast and fun, now adays i can go to the other side within 30 mins with instas and the only time i use speed mods are on my haulers or inties. By this simple move CCP has completly killed atleast 90% or more of the afterburner/mwd sale market. No one needs theese or even speed mods anymore since u can warp from belts to station with instas and to and from station to gates. I would rather see that ccp remove instas alltoghter and make eve a universe where people use speed mods and afterburners to get to gates. This will lead to lesser nber tanks on pvp ships in exchange for getting to gates faster. A raven should be slow and cumbersome to move around and fleet fights will need planning and skilled FC's. Regions wouldn't change hands like people change underwear and more stability would be the result. And seeing motherships with clone vat bays being used more or even a Titan being used. In conclusion it feels like eve is being dummed down to make it as easy as possible which atleast for me isnt why i started playing in the first place.

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