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Edania
Caldari Ordo Adeptus Astartes Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:13:00 -
[61]
Ok so let me think about this the only change is that you can now train to get 4 atribute points in a similar time to getting one as was the time "lost" is really only the time that new people will save by traning those 4 before basic 5
So what does that mean? it means that assuming learning 5 which is probably unresonable but makes the maths easier that new players will gain 6.6 more Skill points per min training basic 5 than the "old school" did or under 10K extra a day if we assume 4 days training each lvl 5 thats approximatly 190K Skill points worth of time "saved"
to all those who care how long does it take to train that much? for me off my best atributes its a little over 3 days prehaps 4.5 off my worst
expressed as a percentage new players will be able to catch up with me as an example by approximatly 0.5% still leaving them trailing far behind even a moderatly aged character let alone the 3 year olds
Quote: my Clone was excelent, i just had too many skillpoints
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Saxit
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:22:00 -
[62]
They could at least give characters who are only a few months old some extra SPs for each lvl 5 learning skill they have (except Learning ofc). I just spent the last month getting lvl 5 in all those skills except for charisma, and my friends who spent that time training other skills are taunting me now because they will be able to catch up much faster. Totally they will have 1 less point in the stats than I do because they don't bother with the lvl 5 skillpoint at all.
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Nhemisor
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Posted - 2006.12.04 07:40:00 -
[63]
What a bunch of whiney little wusses. You should be grateful that you can train while not online. You can go out and watch a movie, eat a pizza, screw your boy/girlfriend/neighbor/horse/dog/cat and still be training Eve skills that whole time! Now, if you could only train while connected, you would have something to truly complain about.
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Lockefox
Caldari The Clearwater Society
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Posted - 2006.12.04 17:27:00 -
[64]
I will voice my dissagreement on this change purely on the "back in my day" argument.
Other than that, I think this is a change for the better. Means that new players won't need to spend 2 months on learning and will be able to jump into real skills quicker. AND, those who do train to lvl 5 will get to benifit from the extra point in the respective category.
Lastly, I saw a post earlier on this thread that said to lower all t2 reqs to lvl 4, and I will have to dissagree. I like the way the reqs are setup right now. Lvl 4 for most mods and lvl 5 for most weapons. If someone is going to kill me with a Tachy Beam II, I want to know that they busted ass to get that weapon and that I was rightly pwned. The only one I would consider lowering from 5->4 is weapon upgrades... but even that is pushing it.
There's my 2 cents on the matter. ~Locke
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2006.12.04 22:52:00 -
[65]
This is an MMO. If you can't deal with this sort of thing, you really shouldn't be playing MMO's.
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JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2006.12.05 04:24:00 -
[66]
meh whatever. --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
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XerZex
Minmatar Dark Entropy
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Posted - 2006.12.05 09:41:00 -
[67]
well, even with the change its taking this char ages to go them, I knew sticking all my attribs in Per and willpower was a bad idea, lol. pvp winnnn!
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SilentSentinel
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:05:00 -
[68]
Well CCP went this far, why not a little farther? Let all players that are a year and older have the option of changing their stats around. I have charisma around 25 atm. I would like to take off 5 points and add them to my intel and memory.
Cheers
SS
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Kreila
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Posted - 2006.12.05 16:13:00 -
[69]
I'll just say that I enjoy returning to eve and reaping the benefits of not having to miss out on other skill trains while i grind learnings; and, sorry to hear that people trained the L5s... I had a hard time training the L4s :P.
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.06 02:27:00 -
[70]
As a noob i can say that i'm happy with the changes as it will help getting up to a decent level of skills. However i can see why some 'old-tiners' are upset...afterall they spent all that time training up to LvL 5 just to get access to advanced skills.
One Empire, One People, One Emperor, Forever under the Light of Heaven. Amarr Aeternus. |
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Atreyu Niain
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Posted - 2006.12.06 10:57:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Atreyu Niain on 06/12/2006 10:57:56 I have to say im not happy with this to be honest. I fully understand the need for new players to get into the game quicker and start to have fun without that whole 1/2 month grind, and for that reason its a good change. However, the bottom line is that the older players are CCP's valued customers(or they should be thinking that way!) There is no compensation what so ever for them. Im sure alot of older palyers put in the time to train all those lvl 5's so they have access to the Advanced learning skills. Yes, they will have an extra attribute but will that attribute be worth the time it took to train it these days!?
As the days go on i feel that EVE is becoming more of a grind game, its not grind as in 'you have to play and repeat the same thing in game to achieve something' but rather its a 'you have to keep paying us your money and giving us your time'. If the later is indeed true then surely the people who have being playing for a long time are getting stiffed by all the new players who are basically getting for free what the old players put in the time for.
God im glad this rant is over..... back to the addiction i go!
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westernstab
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Posted - 2006.12.06 12:27:00 -
[72]
with the exception of advanced memory and intelligence. training basic to level 5 will help you with the advanced skills and shoot it is only 3-5 days for basic 5 so why not ?
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:50:00 -
[73]
I'm a wee bit ****ed off, yeah it was unpleasant grinding through the basic level 5's, but that was the point, the benefit of the advanced skills was what was supposed to make it worth it, you paid your time and benefited greatly with another 5 points. Now anyone can do their learning training in probably something of 3 weeks, took me a month and a half. Not good to those who have hte level 5 learning skills, because now we spent 6 days each for only 1 point of attribute instead of 5, so we were screwed if you ask me...
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Skeenee Al'Ramed
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Posted - 2006.12.06 22:36:00 -
[74]
Pfff bunch of whiners! I am the ne who should be complaining. My char is 4 months old. I trained adv learning skills for 1.5 month. BoohoooohooooOOOOOO K I wouldn't have done it if I knew they were gonna reduce the requ. K i lost 3 weeks of training... OMG soo unfaiir!!!
Geeez you people need to get out more. It's a ******* game!
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Protunia
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.07 06:34:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Protunia on 07/12/2006 06:34:32 older players have plenty of benefits they get all the new modules first. They get to learn all the new skills first. anything thats extremely skills heavy they get to have and do first. You guys are grateful for what you do get why should they give you anything extra?
heck they get to see all the newer content first too!!
man must suck to be you. My Character Stats
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Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:16:00 -
[76]
I'm good with this.... All sorts of fun to be had without learning skills in the way. <BR><BR>Sometimes, video games are more important than sleep. Unfortunately, this is a bad sign. |
Edsel
Dominus Nihil Development
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:40:00 -
[77]
Who really cares? Most everyone is going to train the basic and advanced to 5 eventually anyway.
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Haldir Ravenclaw
Gallente Desolations Children
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Posted - 2006.12.07 14:48:00 -
[78]
Heh, people are still going on about this?
I have no complaints at the lowering of it, as I have all the basic learning to 5 and all advanced to 4. I'll be the one better off with the extra attributes anyway. As countless other people have posted, you'll wind up getting lvl 5 basic anyway so no major loss. After christmas, all advanced learning to 5
And let's not forget implants people! +4's 4tw. So, a polite notice just to carry on playing the game as if nothing major happened...
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.07 15:19:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/12/2006 15:21:18
Originally by: Edsel Who really cares? Most everyone is going to train the basic and advanced to 5 eventually anyway.
FALSE! It can be very easily shown that the advanced V is not really worth it on any reasonable time scale(that is, I don't train 5, and I will have more SP in useful, that is, nonlearning, skills than you for a very, very long time given that you did train lvl5, and over that amount of time, my useful skills have led to a greater ability to fight and make money). That said, the Basic V, its only real value was the gateway to the other 4 points, which mitigated the long time training down a good bit. We're talking about 20 days of level 5 training that is not nearly as beneficial to us at this time as when we did it in the first place. Its 20 wasted days if in hindsight you would not have spent 20 days on the extra 1 point across the 4 stats that matter.
And as for the bloody benefity we older players get, well, that's what we've been working for! We've earned all that **** already so its a mute point, completely disconnected from the argument.
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Haldir Ravenclaw
Gallente Desolations Children
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Posted - 2006.12.07 16:11:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sexorella hotz FALSE! It can be very easily shown that the advanced V is not really worth it on any reasonable time scale(that is, I don't train 5, and I will have more SP in useful, that is, nonlearning, skills than you for a very, very long time given that you did train lvl5, and over that amount of time, my useful skills have led to a greater ability to fight and make money).
I agree with that, but for me I see getting advanced to 5 because I'll be training more higher rank skills in future and not have them in the backround whispering saying "train me!". I'm not one of these guys who thinks "I need to get as much SP as possible and beat everyone else!", rather I'm thinking for long term and especially things like capital ships where it really does prove how useful it is. Sure, getting all advanced to 5 will take me about 2 (average 12 or 13 days each to lvl 5) months but I think it'll be worth it and will never have to train them again! After that, I'll get round to carrying on what I was doing before!
But that's just me
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Matalino
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.07 22:22:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Deven Sunstorm I'm a bit disappointed as well. I think that older players that trained initial learning skills to V just to learn tier 2 learning skills to IV should be compensated.
How about we compensate them by giving them 1 extra SP per minute to their learning rate.
Someone elses gain does not equal your loss. There is nothing that you need to be compensated for. You could have waited on training the advanced learning skills if you didn't like the prereq's.
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Edsel
Dominus Nihil Development
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Posted - 2006.12.08 02:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sexorella hotz Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 07/12/2006 15:21:18
Originally by: Edsel Who really cares? Most everyone is going to train the basic and advanced to 5 eventually anyway.
FALSE! It can be very easily shown that the advanced V is not really worth it on any reasonable time scale(that is, I don't train 5, and I will have more SP in useful, that is, nonlearning, skills than you for a very, very long time given that you did train lvl5, and over that amount of time, my useful skills have led to a greater ability to fight and make money). That said, the Basic V, its only real value was the gateway to the other 4 points, which mitigated the long time training down a good bit. We're talking about 20 days of level 5 training that is not nearly as beneficial to us at this time as when we did it in the first place. Its 20 wasted days if in hindsight you would not have spent 20 days on the extra 1 point across the 4 stats that matter.
And as for the bloody benefity we older players get, well, that's what we've been working for! We've earned all that **** already so its a mute point, completely disconnected from the argument.
To each their own, I personally see it as a benefit. Not every character is out to get into the biggest ship possible and use the best equipment lightning fast. Some things simply take time, and some of them are worth waiting for even if they donĘt make sense.
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.08 03:20:00 -
[83]
How about we compensate them by giving them 1 extra SP per minute to their learning rate.
Someone elses gain does not equal your loss. There is nothing that you need to be compensated for. You could have waited on training the advanced learning skills if you didn't like the prereq's.
Umm...we were happy with the prereqs when they meant you trained basic V for 5 more points, now that its only worth 1 we are no longer happy...I invested 5 days so I could get the other 4 points, now its 5 days invested for a whole 1 point.
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Sy Sperling
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Posted - 2006.12.09 02:02:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Matalino Someone elses gain does not equal your loss. There is nothing that you need to be compensated for. You could have waited on training the advanced learning skills if you didn't like the prereq's.
QFT
As someone who started a character in August, and just finished all of my advanced learning to 4 about 2 weeks ago, my first reaction was annoyance, but it faded pretty quickly. This change effects others, nothing has been changed for your character if you have your basic up to level 5, what gives? You still have more skills than someone just starting out - if it's such a travesty, why not take advantage of the new rules and roll a new character?
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.09 17:45:00 -
[85]
The thing I don't like about the changes is that new characters can get to the same level of learning skills I have (lvl 5 basic and level 4 advanced) in less time.
The reason is that when they train basic 5, they will have +7 to each attribute while I had only +4, so on average that means training instant recall 5 with 15 memory vs the 12 that I had. So they gain a day or two on me. The way skills train up, new players can already catch up to older players very quickly (it takes twice as long to take a skill to 5 as it does to 4). I've been playing for 15 months longer than them yet with this and other changes they are only 13 months behind (more SP to start with, faster learning skills, better information on what the attributes are for so they have better starting attributes than we did).
Really, I think to make things a bit more fair to older players they should: Give us +800K SP (+1M if you have the basic level 5's trained) and allow us to fix our attributes a little since when we created our characters, we didn't know what anything was for.
-Bart
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Bellum Veritas
Minmatar Free Universe Commericial Combine
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Posted - 2006.12.11 08:09:00 -
[86]
I've got all basic learnings to V and all advanced learnings to IV. I think that new chars will like the changes. They'll not have to deal with the learning grind that I had to and enjoy the game more. I actually learned with my first char (Yura Naten) that starting the game with as balanced attributes, makes learning much easier. With Veritas, all my initial attributes were within 1-2 points of each other.
On the other hand, I did spend that time getting these points. I was in a f*ckin Breacher for 2 months! I wasn't very productive nor making much ISK. So, the arguement that I got to enjoy the game two months longer than a new player is disingenious. Fact is, I didn't.
Compensating older chars by letting them shift attribute points around seems a bit much for me (not to mention that CCP ain't going to let that happen) but, some form of compensating for the lost game time or whatever should happen. What I'd like to see is the change included as part of the story line (during a mission, my pod got hit with gamma rays or some s*hit). 800k seems like a lot of SPs but, I don't believe so.
So, part of me wants to b*tch but I simply can't marshal up the arguements to support my POV so...adapt or leave seems to be the order of the day.
All your mods are belong to me...eventually
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Treher
Minmatar Locust Syndicate Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.11 21:32:00 -
[87]
People pay a couple billion dollars for +5 implants vs. +4. I think that many people would end up training for the extra point anyhow. This is a good move for newbie players. ______________________________________________________ I forget which station container has my memory implants. |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.12 07:19:00 -
[88]
When The patch notes where released showing this change I had finished the last basic learning skill to level 5 about two hours before. Kinda fitting it was "Empathy" that finished training to level 5 at that.
Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:50:00 -
[89]
I had charisma stuck at basic 4, now I can get an extra +3 charisma for 6 hours training.
Would have loved for this change to have been in-effect months ago when I was doing my learnings.
Good change IMO.
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Emaet Cluinct
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Posted - 2006.12.13 16:29:00 -
[90]
Seems to me that this helps out the noob toons, without a negative impact on the older toons.
However, for the noob toons that DON'T go back and train their basic skills to level five, it is actually a long term drag on them, whereas the older toons all have their skills at five.
So overall, I say that the new toons actually come out on the short end of the stick.
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