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Kali: The death of solo PvP?

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Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:11:00 - [1] It seems to me that with the upcoming HP boost, making it harder to take on more than one enemy at once whilst on your own, and with the nerf to cloaking devices whereby the scanner can 'see' cloaked ships it is becoming harder and harder to envision effective solo pvp anymore. Not to mention how more HP is going to make the advantage of an extra ship or two in small gangs more effective now than it is today. Now whilst soloing you're going to have to spend more time killing someone whilst hoping that the extra time it takes to do it isn't enough time for your oponent to bring in aid from a few systems away. We can't effectively fly cloaking ships such as the pilgrim or falcon anymore because any half decent PvPer who checks the scanner every minute or so will see us coming a mile off. The nerf of T2 ammos also being a factor (although I'll admit some T2 ammos really did need to be nerfed [cough]jav torps[/cough] Your thoughts? Am I worried about one of the things I find extremely fun in game alongside gang combat for nothing? It just seems to me like Tux is telling all of us solo and small gang PvPers to get ****ed. Maybe I'm just worrying for nothing. Feel free to comment, flame, do whatever you do. Latest Vid: Curses to all
XerZex Minmatar Dark Entropy iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:14:00 - [2] /signed Agreed.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:15:00 - [3] Mining > PVP, just change profession EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Sean Dillon Caldari Snakes in a Pod	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:17:00 - [4] I completely agree. Gone is the time of a gank setup for a hit and run attacks.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:19:00 - [5] Temporarily, Yes. Read tux's blog, the entire point is to add more stragedic features down the line, like heat, attackable modules. By making ships last longer, it may be possible down the line to actually do enough damage to kill the player, leaving the ship intact, for pirates to take.
jason hill Caldari Nightmare Holdings	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:21:00 - [6] ... didnt know they were gonna nerf cloaking ...ahhh bollox "THE HUMAN SHIELD"
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:23:00 - [7] Link to this bit about cloaking please?
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:24:00 - [8] Nerf to cloaks FFS thats taking the **** -Dumus-
Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:26:00 - [9] I just don't get it to be honest. In a fleet you'll last an extra quarter second under focused fire with more HP. In a small gang you'll last an extra 10 seconds under focused fire. In solo PvP they'll last an extra few mins with more HP and more cap to tank with, and you wont be able to take on 2 or 3 people at the same time like we could before as a result. Why do we need longer combat in the first place anyway? An extra 10 seconds? Big deal. An extra few mins? PvP will become a world of cap balanced ships with a game style of 'activate all active modules, go make a cup of tea, come back to see who won'. Boring in my opinion. Gone are the short, addrenaline rushed battles of old. Latest Vid: Curses to all
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky We can't effectively fly cloaking ships such as the pilgrim or falcon anymore because any half decent PvPer who checks the scanner every minute or so will see us coming a mile off. A cloaked ship we can see.. well its original at least. Complete stupidity but original. I have np with all the other nerfs that happen, at some point they tend to balance out but making a cloak visible... please! I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Silenne Otsaku Amarr Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:33:00 - [11] take the change in a whole, not only you'r interest part. the pvp in kali will NOT BE the same as rmr with just an increase in HP, this will change a lot of things. It's like person find a good method who is effective now, some other ppl try his tactic, and you get a propagation, adaptation etc etc.. it's just a new balance who will be in effect, i think the dev / game designer do NOT think : if we do that, we will have a problem in 1 / 2 week, but as annoncerd they have a plan for 10 years, so ... they have other things in ming. If only i have been in game before the "Evolution" is created, i can create my own. EVOLUTION in the answers to all of you'r problem. adapt too :D Nahh no sign for now :p
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Ka	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:34:00 - [12] Agreed. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Maestro Ulv Originally by: Adrian Kerensky We can't effectively fly cloaking ships such as the pilgrim or falcon anymore because any half decent PvPer who checks the scanner every minute or so will see us coming a mile off. A cloaked ship we can see.. well its original at least. Complete stupidity but original. I have np with all the other nerfs that happen, at some point they tend to balance out but making a cloak visible... please! Nah you're not visible, apparently cloaked ships show up on scanner now in kali. Here is what i read: Originally by: Xori Ruscuv At present, scanners/scan probes can not detect cloaked ships. In Kali/Revelations, scanning will detect those ships. In this thread. Latest Vid: Curses to all
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Nah you're not visible, apparently cloaked ships show up on scanner now in kali. Here is what i read: Originally by: Xori Ruscuv At present, scanners/scan probes can not detect cloaked ships. In Kali/Revelations, scanning will detect those ships. Thanks for that :) Still, scanner only does mean your visible to an extent. Did the cloaks suddenly leave an ion particle trail behind them? Or did Spock realise we could track the ship with its exhaust again? :) Even though it is scanner only, and even though I myself have had a cloaked ship find my gang and assist in the wiping out of said gang, I still think its silly. Yeah I could have scanned and realised I had one nearly on top of me now and saved a couple ships, mine included, but... ya know? Cloaked ships shouldn't be visible even on a scanner IMO. Ill have to pop back onto sisi and try this out, most of my corp is **** handy with the scanner, wonder if they can find me whilst cloaked and get in close enough to uncloak me. Ill just sit there semi invisible now and wonder which alliance whined enough to bring that into play. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Adrian Kerensky Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Maestro Ulv Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Nah you're not visible, apparently cloaked ships show up on scanner now in kali. Here is what i read: Originally by: Xori Ruscuv At present, scanners/scan probes can not detect cloaked ships. In Kali/Revelations, scanning will detect those ships. Thanks for that :) Still, scanner only does mean your visible to an extent. Did the cloaks suddenly leave an ion particle trail behind them? Or did Spock realise we could track the ship with its exhaust again? :) Even though it is scanner only, and even though I myself have had a cloaked ship find my gang and assist in the wiping out of said gang, I still think its silly. Yeah I could have scanned and realised I had one nearly on top of me now and saved a couple ships, mine included, but... ya know? Cloaked ships shouldn't be visible even on a scanner IMO. Ill have to pop back onto sisi and try this out, most of my corp is **** handy with the scanner, wonder if they can find me whilst cloaked and get in close enough to uncloak me. Ill just sit there semi invisible now and wonder which alliance whined enough to bring that into play. Shouldn't be too much of a problem. Scan out a cloaked ship, warp to the probes position, when you come out of warp set speed to max and keep going in a straight line till you've uncloaked the cloaker. Also, people will see us on scanner now so sneak attacks are out of the question. Latest Vid: Curses to all
Epictetus Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:45:00 - [16] I think 1vs1 battles will probably improve with the changes. Actually i think anyone in a big alliance will love the changes. It might even make combat more interesting, but it sure makes things tough on the guys that are outnumbered. Personally, i dont want combat to last longer. I mean, i really dont want combat to last longer. Beeing in a corp that is usually outnumbered 1:10 or more you dont want all hostiles within two jumps to get there before you finish of your chosen target. We dont know for sure how things will turn out, there have been a lot of changes since i started playing (about 3,5 years ago) and so far i have always adapted and found the changes OK after getting used to them. This is actually the first time i am really worried that the game will be dead for me. I dont blame CCP, if those changes make combat more fun for 80% of the players i guess thats what they have to do. Just a real shame to see my (and others) way of playing the game becoming impossible. But lets see how those changes actually work first. And then i guess its time to wait a couple of months to see how they change the changes. Click here to visit our site
nameless faith	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:47:00 - [17] or maby just maby we can go a whole day with out more flames / kali will end eve / nerf tux / nerf caldari / nerf everything one111!!! posts >.>
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Adrian Kerensky Shouldn't be too much of a problem. Scan out a cloaked ship, warp to the probes position, when you come out of warp set speed to max and keep going in a straight line till you've uncloaked the cloaker. Also, people will see us on scanner now so sneak attacks are out of the question. Seems anyone that recons from revelations onwards needs some way of being told that a probe was launched and is locking onto there.. exhaust.. being as there is no other explanation. Of course this will un-nerf the nerf so would be easier to just make a cloaked ship be that weird unthinkable thing... Cloaked! Tell me why we trained these skills again Adrian? Wonder if the name will change to "Leaky Covert Ops Cloaking Device - Well kindasorta but yeah" Ill go make more coffee, might kill the sarcasm in me today. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
terje Rise.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:00:00 - [19] Edited by: terje on 23/11/2006 13:01:09 i will give kali a shot, if it proves impossible to fight solo against 5 targets i guess its its good bye eve. signed 0/
Corovus Gallente THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:09:00 - [20] It seems that these changes will make the stealth bomber somewhat pointless...
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:16:00 - [21] Change your playstyle? Maximise DPS? "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
dailyhazard Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:30:00 - [22] They need to change self destruct time. I'll get on with it, its through the evolution of the game that the real skilled players show. So i have no problems.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:33:00 - [23] All I know is that Vagabonds have the hardest time killing battleships these days...not nearly enough dps to get through the tanking. Glad I sold mine on TQ tbh. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Kodos Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:40:00 - [24] When it says you can scan for cloaked ships, does this mean just scanning with probes or by using the normal system scanner too? Anyone tested this or had it confirmed? I think it should be just with probes, so that you would bring a cov ops along to scan for potential cloaked hostiles.
Keran Tomaas	Posted - 2006.11.23 13:41:00 - [25] I think the solution to the cloaking problem isn't to make them visible on scanners but to provide a piece of equipment that one could fit on their ship to allow them to see a cloaked ship for a given range, say 80-120KM out. The trick is that you'd see the ship on the overview when detected, but it wouldn't tell you the distance and you wouldn't be able to lock it until it actually decloaks. This would even the playing field somewhat but still leave the purpose of the cloak intact. It would also offer stategic importance to ships using electronic warfare. You know those frigates that are great at using electronics but currently don't provide any kind of real assistance in a battle... there you go.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:37:00 - [26] Ships with more hits are just as easy to kill, they just take longer. This means both sides have time to do clever stuff, like adjust range, call for help, swap ammo to something more appropriate. I think more hps are just a good thing. The only thing that vaguely concerns me is how more hps will interact with everyone being able to warp to zero.
Godar Marak Amarr Return Of Red Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:53:00 - [27] Finally more people are coming to this conclusion. Took you long enough though. -------------------- '\0/\0/\0/\0/\0/' Cant we all just get along? Wheres EVE heading?
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 - [28] I can see why the hp change was needed, and for the most part I agree with them. The only thing that concerns me is an increase of the "gank'n'dock". I hope the combat timer is looked at as I can see a rise in people getting in people killing bait/tacklers and then tanking the main fleet for just long enough to dock. Now Recruiting
Neon Genesis Gallente Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:00:00 - [29] More than this, warp to zero might be the final nail in the coffin for me.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.23 15:16:00 - [30] Originally by: Kodos When it says you can scan for cloaked ships, does this mean just scanning with probes or by using the normal system scanner too? Anyone tested this or had it confirmed? I think it should be just with probes, so that you would bring a cov ops along to scan for potential cloaked hostiles. Scanning using probes, that will find the ship and help you locate and warp to them but will not uncloak you. From another thread. Here So whilst not essentialy being nerfed as a module it is still being nerfed in the sense that you are no longer invisible to a large degree, so still a nerf however you want to look at it. So at least Recons etc can't be seen by any old sod on the scanner which would be the silliest thing for a cloaked ship ever, but if you SP cloaked you can still be found... Kinda not cloaked very well from now on then. From reading that though I would assume you can sneak up on people still unless you happen to be very unlucky in your timing and there probing, however, sitting there at 30, biding your time is essentialy no longer available as an option. You will have to presume that someone can see you if at war using active probes and attack fast and swift or call in your homies to your location. Not as bad as I first though, but still an annoying nerf that makes a cloak not really a cloak, more of a camouflage. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.

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