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Melicien Tetro
Gallente
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.24 15:52:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Melicien Tetro
All ships merits should here-by be measured by their kills to death ratio.
On that note, I'm going to go play counter-strike. Or world of warcraft.
Right. Latest ECM nerf start converting of Eve into stupid counter-strike.
Originally by: Melicien Tetro
If a scorp always gets called primary, doesn't that tell you that it's a hyper valuable asset?
No. It means that killing it is easy target and very effective beacuse no annoyance more. But it was in past. Fit ECCM and be happy with nerfed ECM.
Quote:
I see alot of ecm pilots jamming the wrong targets, and getting gibbed. Learn to pick your jam targets sensibly. Learn to stagger your ecm. Or, put more ecm into your fleet build. If your ecm is getting shot, turn off all the enemies who are going to shoot the ecm.
Words, words, words. Bring more Abaddons/Maels/Pests/Megas/Hypes, set corect distance and kill enemy. You do not need Scorpion here at all.
I'm baffled by your idiocy.
The days of the single scorpion in a 50 man group are about to end, and electronic warfare is going to be a proper role that will be needed. You bring your all sniper fleet, and we'll see it get put down by a better balanced fleet.
I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story.
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:07:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ed Gein on 24/11/2006 16:08:04
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Ed Gein
Yes actually, you do have to fill your low slots, Tux said that.
Tux said? Wow. Who is Tux? Sir Molle? Or may be Cyvok? No. Tux is developer who knows about the gameplay less, than sixmonth noob fighting in GW.
roflcakes
Though I do wonder sometimes, (tux actually thinks people wont use 5 large drones on the myrm 0_o) you are being pretty harsh. And I have to question your position as well since you just implied Cyvok knew a lot about pvp. 
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What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Melicien Tetro
I'm baffled by your idiocy.
Idiocy is about your alliance loosing war to RA, because ravens are great for you.
Quote:
The days of the single scorpion in a 50 man group are about to end,
Ha-ha. Single scorpion in 50 man group is dead.
Quote:
and electronic warfare is going to be a proper role that will be needed. You bring your all sniper fleet, and we'll see it get put down by a better balanced fleet.
There is no proper role for modern ECM.
Motto of ECM ships in Kali "Did nothing, died first!".
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Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ed Gein
Edited by: Ed Gein on 24/11/2006 16:08:04
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Ed Gein
Yes actually, you do have to fill your low slots, Tux said that.
Tux said? Wow. Who is Tux? Sir Molle? Or may be Cyvok? No. Tux is developer who knows about the gameplay less, than sixmonth noob fighting in GW.
roflcakes
Though I do wonder sometimes, (tux actually thinks people wont use 5 large drones on the myrm 0_o) you are being pretty harsh.
How could I explain to Tux Eve PvP mechanic? For example, Tux thinks that "kinetic damage bonus is great because nobody will put MANY kinetic hardeneres on the ship"(c) latest dev blog. It becomes a bit anoying. May be I am biassed, but Caldari removed from PvP in Kali.
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Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 16:41:00 -
[35]
Its not like someone is going to see a drake and immediately go dock and fit 4 kinetic hardeners, or even be somewhere in which they could do something like that. Secondly, if your going to rant forums, why not do it with your actual character instead of a lame alt.
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What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ed Gein
Its not like someone is going to see a drake and immediately go dock and fit 4 kinetic hardeners, or even be somewhere in which they could do something like that.
Sure.
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Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh
Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS.
R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven>
R.I.P. <Eagle>
R.I.P. <ECM>
R.I.P. <Drake>
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Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:16:00 -
[37]
The point of ECM is to target jam. If you don't want ECM to target jam then why have ECM all together. Damps would need to be tossed out too.
ECCM should be very effective if you fit it.
None the less, right now. I can still jam good with a non-spec EW ship (like the rapier) with ECM/ECM Enhancements fitted. I just have to sacrifice more. In my case, I have to sacrifice WCS's or my tanks in low slots.
So you got to think now. Is that a good price to pay to increase more ganks in EVE and less solo play from me? Yes. :)
Vile - Recruiting Pirates |
Ed Gein
Dark Blade Incorporated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
The point of ECM is to target jam. If you don't want ECM to target jam then why have ECM all together. Damps would need to be tossed out too.
ECCM should be very effective if you fit it.
None the less, right now. I can still jam good with a non-spec EW ship (like the rapier) with ECM/ECM Enhancements fitted. I just have to sacrifice more. In my case, I have to sacrifice WCS's or my tanks in low slots.
So you got to think now. Is that a good price to pay to increase more ganks in EVE and less solo play from me? Yes. :)
Most jamming boats used wcs anyway. Since they are useless now in pvp, shouldn't be a big deal to use the low slot jamming enchancers.
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What do you call the person that brings a gun to a knife fight?
The Winner. |
Aequitas Veritas
TAOSP
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:22:00 -
[39]
Maybe they could introduce a ecm strength skill that requires recon lvl 5, caldari cr lvl 5 and caldari bs lvl 5 that in effect would enhance the ability of the Scorp, Rook and Falcon. This would keep the "noobs in scorps" from being so strong and let the true ECM specialists be just that... Could at the same time create a range one too so that scorps can actually operate in fleet battles...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin |
Ryu Goto
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:52:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ryu Goto on 24/11/2006 18:59:11
Edited by: Ryu Goto on 24/11/2006 18:56:45
Edited by: Ryu Goto on 24/11/2006 18:53:58
I really agree with the increased skill reqs or more new skills introduced for ECM. The strength balance as it was before was good, except people could specialize in guns/missiles amor/shield AND EW at the same time. People who were looking to get an extra boost in PvP capability only had to say "oh look at me. what are these skillbooks in my hangar? OH WOW, A COMPLETE EW PACKAGE. Thank god for best buy and ikea. Now me can jam people for a few days worth of dedication. I win you lose. kumbaya (for me)."
EW in a certain way is a kind of weapon as powerful as missiles or guns in the right balance (however vague this concept may be) and in the right situations. Just as few people specialize in both guns and missiles, EW skill levels must be brought to the same level of difficulty in training. Naturally, people with 1000Billion skillpoints wont have trouble specializing in everything with experience and a 1000Billion isk ship. But, to us mere mortals, we must choose our paths, and EW must be a path worth pursuing (with the sacrifice of time), and one just as hard as guns or missiles. If EW is deemed too powerful, then the skillset must correspondingly be much more tedious to master. This way, those people who want to deal damage will be discouraged in pursuing EW, and spend the extra time skilling up gunnery and missile skills. the EW-ers will be rewarded for their time with not much damage-dealing in the conventional sense, but in a tactical sense. kumbaya (this time for real).
An all-around nerf isnt bad if its trying to get rid of non-EWers being happy campers, but a nerf must be offset by skills, not class-specific modules or rigs. If people would like EW ships to be powerful, hey, why not ask the devs for a 100% boost in ECM strength per level? Ah, but then the whining interest groups switch over to the non-EWers. Not everybody can be pleased, but just as in politics, there is such a thing as a "median voter" line. This line can only be achieved by a change in balance of skills (mods, everybody can use, and who wants to create an entire fashion line just for EW-ships or give them 7 different kinds of bonuses, though i would not be totally opposed to seeing a scorpion clothed in pink faux fur with a pimp cane tucked in under his "arm").
I'm sorry for the sarcasm. "Could i BE any more of a house???" it runs in the fam, deal with it.
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Menf
Seraphin Technologies
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.25 17:22:00 -
[41]
i think EW have a problem..
If i dont want to get shoot fast i fit shieldboosters/armor repairer + hardener
thats ok for everyone
but all player are complaining about EW, but nobody fit ECCMs
there are allready good ways to avoid to get jammed but everyone ignores it and start to complain
if anyone complain about he got shoot by an amarr BS with lasers without havin fitted any EM/thermic shield hardeners everyone will laugh on him
if someone get jammed without any ECCM in med slots everyone says "yeah. EW is overpowered"
this nerf is tombstone of the EW
you have now to use almost all of your fittingslots to get 2-3 targets jammed and you get killed in seconds if anyone shoot on you
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Some players allready noticed.. "If you SEE me, its allready too late..." |
DaveJ777
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:24:00 -
[42]
Everyone who supports the ECM nerf seems to describe them as being far more effective than they really are. Sorry, but 2 ECMs will not lock down BS very well, and have close to 0 chance if an ECCM is fitted.
The ECM lowslot mods need a boost... but their CPU needs to be raised 100x, and ECM ships should receive a -99% CPU bonus so that domis wont overpower scorps in ECM. And the rigs should nerf armor instead, to combat plated scorps.
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I win eve!
EVE server status: |
Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Menf
there are allready good ways to avoid to get jammed but everyone ignores it and start to complain
if anyone complain about he got shoot by an amarr BS with lasers without havin fitted any EM/thermic shield hardeners everyone will laugh on him
most people have asked themselves one important question before they decided to fit eccm... they asked themselves, why waste a slot on eccm when you can just fit ecm instead and counter almost all offensive mods?
Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution! |
Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:43:00 -
[44]
I'm a dedicated ECM Pilot as well, and although this patch is going to make the ships I fly mostly less effective, Imho it is going to improve the battles and pvp on a larger scale and overall.
I'm still going to have fun, Ill jamm less sure, but hey it is boring for everyone if a fight of 5vs5 ends with 5 people on one side being jammed by 1 rook/falcon.
So for the sake of balancing, its a good nerf which also introduced mods for you to improve your jamming.
Siganture removed due to profanity - Serathu ([email protected]) |
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:07:00 -
[45]
Hi all,
Im a dedicated scorp pilot for fleet and kali spells the death knoll for fleet jamming.
With kali we get...
I remove my plates for ECM Mods
I reduce my shields for ECM Rigs
All of which has the net effect of less ECM strength than pre kali.
So basically I have less health and less jamming strength and I always get called primary, Lucky me.
Ive trained T2 rails(forethought ftw) so Im now a sniper, grats you have turned fleet into 100% sniper battles.
Idiots whine about how ECM is overpowered yet the context of their whining is small gangs and non-ecm ships, you have cookie cuttered fleet to suit the idiots.
,
<VTIL> Pham Sirge
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Lunanie
Final-Vendetta
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:08:00 -
[46]
Yeah CCP just have to tell all ECM whiners to use ECCM because those modules do work. (espacially after the patch that boosted ECCM mods)
Because of the longer battles you have already more chance of missing a cycle in an ECM ship and because you dont have any tank at all now if you fit the rigs and low slot mods to get the same ECM results you Scorp can get wtfpwnd by a t1 frig ffs 
And too much balance between all ships/races is not fun anyway because you have much less tactics involved to win a battle.
Not cool CCP.... please at least try to think before you nerf everything 
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
Spectral Armada
Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.27 14:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 24/11/2006 12:13:10
I agree that the ECM nerf takes it too far in regards to specialized jamming ships. I also agree that a rig that boosts jam strength at the expense of shields is definitely messed up - as someone stated, the domi will be able to fit a couple without breaking a sweat and could care less about its shields.
EDIT: And if you're nerfing ECM in this manner, where's the sensor damper nerf? Those are actually more reliably effective than ECM.
Domi should be able to use ecm, people just like to cry too much when it does....
it wont be as good as it once was but for christs sake.. before you start a Nerf Domi thread go fly one.. or at least look at the stats... domi pilots dont really use ECM by choice... our nerfed grid means that with some nos + armour tank we have med slots out the wazoo, no PG and a ****load of CPU left over... it only makes sense that you would use ECM to your advantage. What else would you fit? cap rechargers?
Quote:
Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
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LoKesh
Amarr
InQuest Ascension
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.27 18:25:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: Ed Gein
Yes actually, you do have to fill your low slots, Tux said that.
Tux said? Wow. Who is Tux? Sir Molle? Or may be Cyvok? No. Tux is developer who knows about the gameplay less, than sixmonth noob fighting in GW.
I'd really love to know if everything is as it was intended and if it's being watched by the Devs or not.
I'm personally in favor of boosting the bonuses on the ECM ships again - make it 15% and 30% (rather than 10 and 20). This will make them weaker than they are now, unless you fit 1 low slot module. I think that would be more in tune with CCP's usual approach (nerf , then provide modules to easily counter) Needing 3 of the low slot modules is harsh - the Rook only has two low slots, and without room for a plate any ECM ship will die very quickly in a fleet battle.
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