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Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Gaven Blands Originally by: Crumplecorn there is obviously a market for arranged fair combat in Eve. Too right there is. They can even keep the loot if they insist on lethal battling. But I'm not convinced the current layout of Eve's damage/prevention/manouvering system is suited to [player] skill based combat. It's too much like Paper/Scissors/Stone and once you have chosen your layout and opponent, you don't get enough control in space to alter the battle's outcome based on your opponents layout. I'd like to see it though, despite having said that. I like that about Eve. It's about using the right tool for the right job, not clicky clicky. If I want the clicky I play UT2K4. I want arenas so I can test setups without stopping at structure. A little part of me dies every time I have to do that. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:56:00 - [32] Originally by: Buxaroo script kiddies with ADD who use gamepads to play games. WTF is wrong with gamepads? ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Verus Potestas I disagree. Totally. I suggest you get into an interceptor and go out fighting. Tell me that what you do has no effect on the result on the fight afterwards. I disagree. Totally. If your interceptor layout will beat your opponent, it will beat your opponent. If it won't, then it won't. The only player skill required in this game during combat is "don't do anything stupid". You know you stop if you click orbit again, don't do it. You know you die if move out to his tracking radius range, don't do it. There's nothing big or clever in that. Me and my corp are totally pro. Really uber and evryfink. We do C4mpz0rs! UUUuuber
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:58:00 - [34] Originally by: Gaven Blands Originally by: Verus Potestas I disagree. Totally. I suggest you get into an interceptor and go out fighting. Tell me that what you do has no effect on the result on the fight afterwards. I disagree. Totally. If your interceptor layout will beat your opponent, it will beat your opponent. If it won't, then it won't. The only player skill required in this game during combat is "don't do anything stupid". You know you stop if you click orbit again, don't do it. You know you die if move out to his tracking radius range, don't do it. There's nothing big or clever in that. I play Counterstrike. I find that by following one simple rule, I can win every match. Don't miss. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 14:59:00 - [35] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: Gaven Blands Originally by: Verus Potestas I disagree. Totally. I suggest you get into an interceptor and go out fighting. Tell me that what you do has no effect on the result on the fight afterwards. I disagree. Totally. If your interceptor layout will beat your opponent, it will beat your opponent. If it won't, then it won't. The only player skill required in this game during combat is "don't do anything stupid". You know you stop if you click orbit again, don't do it. You know you die if move out to his tracking radius range, don't do it. There's nothing big or clever in that. I play Counterstrike. I find that by following one simple rule, I can win every match. Don't miss. Forget Eve, the fora need the 'Headshot' from UT. pwned ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Crumplecorn I like that about Eve. It's about using the right tool for the right job, not clicky clicky. If I want the clicky I play UT2K4. erm. ok. I respect your view there, disagree for myself, but I will defend your right to want it like it is. Sounds like arenas would work for you as well, despite us being on opposites sides of the combat fence. Then maybe there is hope for it as far as ideas go. And as I've only just read that Alliance Arenas/Tournaments exist, I can't see how they can avoid it for much longer. Me and my corp are totally pro. Really uber and evryfink. We do C4mpz0rs! UUUuuber
Chronus26 Gallente Dark Blood Contracts	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:02:00 - [37] Honestly... OP, please try something other than belt piracy if you want to find 'the best pvp' as you put it. Go somewhere where people actually choose to fight back, go out hunting in 0.0, wardeclare an alliance or big corp. Killing newbies in rifters as your post implies is what you have experienced isn't 'good pvp'. 'Good PVP' is when you and your friend wipe out an enemy force biger than yours. It's when you win a 1vs1 fight. It's when you get a fight that makes other say 'wow, how did you pul that one off'... ----- Move along, nothing to see here...
Spanker Absolut Profit	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:03:00 - [38] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: Gaven Blands It's too much like Paper/Scissors/Stone and once you have chosen your layout and opponent, you don't get enough control in space to alter the battle's outcome based on your opponents layout. I disagree. Totally. I suggest you get into an interceptor and go out fighting. Tell me that what you do has no effect on the result on the fight afterwards. I think he means 1v1 - Shpank
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:06:00 - [39] Simple rules I Follow Is game fun to play ? Yes. Keep playing No. Find another game Is game getting boring ? Yes. Find another game to play for a while No. Keep playing. With them two simple rules, your life will be full of happy happy joy joy moments. The man without a face... The company without a clue. Login, Login, Login, Login, Login... Pah Stupid Forum
Loka Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:09:00 - [40] Edited by: Loka on 24/11/2006 15:09:11 When you start playing this game, you will expirience combat as fighting NPC¦s. You will use the same ship over and over again, with same config and tactic. Then some evil player will cross your way total pwn you, while you thought you are almighty when killing some NPC¦s. Than you realise, there is a different in fighting NPC¦s and single players. You will then envolve and discover, that PvP is something randomly happening. You cant say when you will have to fight, nor who and which ship. So you start thinking more about your setups before undocking. At some day you will come across a group of players, which will totally annihilate again your ship of ultimate destruction. Then you will realise, that numbers is very important for PvP. You start to search for a corp and try to do some PvP in groups. Than you will once jump into a system with security status 0.0 and you will encounter that there are almost only groups around. Almost no single 1vs1 is happening anymore. Also you will see that there are cool NPC¦s which are much more tough than the one you already know. They also drop good loot. Also you will discover new roids and soon realise, the possibility to get rich by mining the roids. You will try to get a food into this 0.0 space and try to settle. Sooner or later, people will realise that you are there and try to settle. Most ppl wont like this, without their permission. So they come in numbers trying to kill you and remove you from space. You will have to start scouting for enemy, putting bubbles on gates and maybe negotiating with enighborghs. At some point you will find out, that you allways loose, because they dont want reall pvp fights, but try to outmaneuver you with their tactics. You will try to counter their tactic and develop your own one. At some point you will have cool fights. If you loose, you will be back in empire soon. If you win and can settle, you will realise, that your neighbourghs are aproaching you and you will have to talk with them. Maybe signing treatys at some point. Once you reach here, you will realise, that you are in an alliance. Your pvp will consist, logistics, diplomatics and actuall real fighting. Once you there and you still are bored, than come back and ask again, how we aint already bored after 3 years of EVE. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Gaven Blands Here's your team. 10 ships. Here's mine 3 ships. You win. Ok, another game anyone? Hmm... not quite. Seems like a lot of people count the number of ships each side has and conclude victory or defeat. Its also about strategy and tactics: Strategy (before you undock) in setting up your fleet which gives you your options of what you can and can't do with your group or your delt hand, which could be a few good cards, or a many bad cards, or many good cards. The better strategy you have the more flexible you are in other words. Tactics (on the field) In the execution and adaptation of your battleplan as it unfolds whilest pew pew'ing. Is your plan to storm the other group hoping not to take as great of losses? Is it to pound away at your enemy picking off a few ships at a time? Is it to lure a few of his fast ships of the gate for an ambush with help of a rapier or other force recon? If you have ewar ships, which ships get priority placement of ewar? How does the enemy react to your moves in battle (tactics)? Its more (usually) than just about the numbers, which is saying something comming from me. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:18:00 - [42] I wish 2 add 2 words HEAT and SUBSYSTEMS ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:24:00 - [43] one thing that always confuses me when people want local removed... how are you going to find your targets? warp to every single belt in each system? scan every single system? or will you just reslove to the great and rewarding gateganking tactics? Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida. My sig is blue not pink although i can't argue with the slave part - Xorus wth whats this blue stuff all of a sudden? Did I miss a mail? -eris Bwahahahaha!11 Immy was here
Intigo Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:32:00 - [44] For someone who has no clue, Gaven Blands really does write a lot. -- Piewat! Low SP piracy Now with more stories and small clips!
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide one thing that always confuses me when people want local removed... how are you going to find your targets? warp to every single belt in each system? scan every single system? or will you just reslove to the great and rewarding gateganking tactics? Gee I wonder. Seeing as Gate Camping has the Eve Stamp Of Uberness, they don't even need to pretend they're going to be a bit talented and scan you down, they can just say " uuuuuhhh. Gate Gank.... Matt Damon..... uuuuuuuuh." and they retain uberness. Me and my corp are totally pro. Really uber and evryfink. We do C4mpz0rs! UUUuuber
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 24/11/2006 15:45:18 Originally by: Ethidium Bromide one thing that always confuses me when people want local removed... how are you going to find your targets? warp to every single belt in each system? scan every single system? or will you just reslove to the great and rewarding gateganking tactics? well - i play this game for the hunt. so yes - i'll gonna scan every fricking system for targets. (ask my corpmates - i can't stay in the same spot longer than 10minutes xD ) and regarding tactics in EVE combat - if you limit EVE combat only to the moment you start shooting, it's like limiting chess to the moment you checkmate your opponent. before you undock you need to prepare - to gather informations what ships you might face or atleast to set your ship up in a way that suits the proposed task. when you undock - you need to know where your enemies are, how many of them, what their behaviour is. before you start shooting - you need to get in a position that suits your playstyle and your ship-setup. engaging shortrange with a long-range ship is most of the time a very bad idea. you have to bring your opponent into a situation where you can use your ship to full effect. when you start shooting - you need to keep an eye on the parameters of the battle - where are the enemies, how many of them are there, what are their flightpaths, what ships are they using, who is shooting me with what, is my flightpath and speed suitable for my weapons systems?? questions over question that needs lots of reflexes and experience. you need to gather this informations as fast as possible or it's likely you end in your pod. you need to know when to run and when to stay. and regarding the interceptor 1v1 example. these ships are paperthin - yeah .. there might be some cookie-cutter i-win setups. but activate/deactivate your mwd in the wrong moment and you'll likely lose your ship - even if it's one of the cookie-cutter i-win setups. orbit on the wrong distance or set another stupid flightpath. make a mistake and you'll lose your ship faster than you can react. engage an interceptor you don't have any clue about his setup - you'll likely die. "can i engage this claw with my blasterranis? has he arties or ACs fitted? is he using an MWD (read: might it be a jagerbomb setup)? how fast is he going when he uses an MWD (read: has he a plate fitted or not)? how close does he sit to the gate (read: might it be a jagerbomb setup?) ..." and you don't have much time to answer this questions. is this something bad?? imho not, it's always a balance act close to an abyss amd that makes flying interceptors so interesting. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Black Lightning	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:49:00 - [47] Edited by: Black Lightning on 24/11/2006 15:49:47 Originally by: Chronus26 Honestly... OP, please try something other than belt piracy if you want to find 'the best pvp' as you put it. Go somewhere where people actually choose to fight back, go out hunting in 0.0, wardeclare an alliance or big corp. Killing newbies in rifters as your post implies is what you have experienced isn't 'good pvp'. 'Good PVP' is when you and your friend wipe out an enemy force biger than yours. It's when you win a 1vs1 fight. It's when you get a fight that makes other say 'wow, how did you pul that one off'... You know, my main is fighting "the best PvP", you know how it usually looks? It's like facing a fleet who fields billions and billions in ships and modules and consists mostly of 30mill sp+ players, many of whom have pirate implant sets installed, which give them enormous boost to their attributes. Long time ago, I used to cruise alliance my alliance space in a ceptor, looking for an enemy to engage. I don't do it now, because most likely I'll face a bunch of HACs and recon ships with command ship flavor on top of this. And for me it's impossible to do the same, as I don't have endless billions in my wallet to replace those overpriced T2 ships, and buy sets of implants that costs many hundreds of millions.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 15:54:00 - [48] Originally by: Gaven Blands Originally by: Laythun All the tatics in eve happen before u undock. and before u enter the same system as ur enemy. I agree. So why even bother with the 3D space bit at all? Heh, no wonder it was so easy to turn into a card game :) Here's your team. 10 ships. Here's mine 3 ships. You win. Ok, another game anyone? huh. u tried flame me. If u cannot unnderstand the nuances and tactics involved then u have already 'lost' the battle. And furthermore i came to eve after playing Join Ops and rainbow 6 for a very long time, i know what tactics are. Unfortunately u have failed both parts of the eve exam. To have tactics, requires u to have a decent team around u where u can discuss theses and go out hunting. Lastly my original post did not cover everything. The last bit of tactical planning is done as u either drop out of warp into the hostile gang, or as u sit cloaked after jumping in. This is done on the fly, and if u've ever done a modicum of pvp u would know this. CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Shacra Caldari Empire Excavations	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:05:00 - [49] To the OP: You are right. True PVP is hard to find in EVE. Most time i would rather name it blobbing. Whichever blog is bigger wins. Gatecamps have, at least in my eyes, nothing to do with PVP. And even if you fight 1-1 most time its totally unfair as the one who picks the target normally only engage when he's convinced he will win and in 90% the one who is engaged is not prepared for PVP. Is this fun? No, it's not. But wait, I will stay even if PVP is not fun. At least direct combat. Why? Because EVE is more than Counterstrike in space or blobbing etc. You can mine, trade, produce run missions, sell your loot ... in all this things I see PVP and that's why I stay. Thats why so many people complain about PVP combat but don't leave. Because EVE is simply more. Perhaps you also get a clue why so many people stay in high sec. Because they are not interested in PVP as it is at moment. You may move lvl4 agents out to low sec, you may nerf the mission rewards of lvl 1-3 missions etc. etc. etc. Most people (including me) won't move because this only ends in us being the prey for some nasty pirates we have absolutely no chance to fight against. Ok, now you say this is a massive multiplayer game so gang together and fight ... Hmmmm, you are right. It is a multiplayer game but what has multiplayer to do with ruining other peoples fun ingame? ------------------------------- Shacra - Centrum Traders www.centrum.bboard.de
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:07:00 - [50] you want pvp? join a 0.0 corp and pick a fight with another one or alliance, people who live in hi sec or lowsec do so by their own choice, the game wont be changed so you can force them into a fight more than you already can
Hajyt	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:34:00 - [51] I'm not a pirate, but I do enjoy pvp. Eve is such a passive near boring game to start with. The only redeming quality it has is the pvp fights. With this upcoming hp increase, I'm going to be able to put on my nos and armour rep and go get a drink mid fight...and return to have very little changed. Doesn't this strike anybody else as boring? Eve just needs to be more engaging, and less of a passive game. Your basically paying $15 a month to have your computer play a game for you. I like the premise of eve, it has so much potential but is getting locked down by sheer slow pace. Hopefully this kali will breathe some new life into eve.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Laythun huh. u tried flame me. If u cannot unnderstand the nuances and tactics involved then u have already 'lost' the battle. And furthermore i came to eve after playing Join Ops and rainbow 6 for a very long time, i know what tactics are. Unfortunately u have failed both parts of the eve exam. To have tactics, requires u to have a decent team around u where u can discuss theses and go out hunting. Lastly my original post did not cover everything. The last bit of tactical planning is done as u either drop out of warp into the hostile gang, or as u sit cloaked after jumping in. This is done on the fly, and if u've ever done a modicum of pvp u would know this. Sorry I only learnt English, you said the battle was decided before you undock. And I agreed. How is that a flame? And then to go and say it again after accusing me of flaming. I'm not sure where you are going with this, are you trying to get me to flame you by pretending to be extremely stupid? If all you want is a flame, just say so, I'm not very good at them, but I'll give it a whack. Me and my corp are totally pro. Really uber and evryfink. We do C4mpz0rs! UUUuuber
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Hajyt With this upcoming hp increase, I'm going to be able to put on my nos and armour rep and go get a drink mid fight...and return to have very little changed. Doesn't this strike anybody else as boring? I was concerned with this as well but after some fights on the test server, its not all that bad. Fights last a bit longer but not long enough to go afk and expect to come back seeing that nothings changed. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
viuva	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:29:00 - [54] i will leave eve after i find a better pvp system ... be afk chatting is is not an option ! Eve has won more players because of the wow failure (you can flame at will) , but eve will lose them because eve is failling too. Is a nice game but has a boring pvp to action players. Its ok for for daddys and workers who like to mine . I grow up with action games , competing to be the best.. i love the adrenaline ... And dont flame kids... kids can do what old ppl cannot do... they are the real pro players in every game . I Like to play with kids.. they learn fast they are dedicated soldiers.. they can be changelling a old player in few time ! why do you think eve has almost 150 K accounts and only few ppl playing ?... Its boring , players come make some isk change they skill and logoff.. Eve is a dead game IF you dont change it... Some ppl will be ritch... and with great accounts but when they open their eyes they will be playing only to get ritch in a game... without take any fun at all !! They are prisonners of they "old" account ... Lets make this a fun game... if my ship explodes who cares ??? i make money for other... but i have had a chance to win !!! Give me a dark and blind space without a chance to escape . and yeah you can protect the minners
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:38:00 - [55] Originally by: viuva i will leave eve after i find a better pvp system ... be afk chatting is is not an option ! Eve has won more players because of the wow failure (you can flame at will) , but eve will lose them because eve is failling too. Is a nice game but has a boring pvp to action players. Its ok for for daddys and workers who like to mine . I grow up with action games , competing to be the best.. i love the adrenaline ... And dont flame kids... kids can do what old ppl cannot do... they are the real pro players in every game . I Like to play with kids.. they learn fast they are dedicated soldiers.. they can be changelling a old player in few time ! why do you think eve has almost 150 K accounts and only few ppl playing ?... Its boring , players come make some isk change they skill and logoff.. Eve is a dead game IF you dont change it... Some ppl will be ritch... and with great accounts but when they open their eyes they will be playing only to get ritch in a game... without take any fun at all !! They are prisonners of they "old" account ... Lets make this a fun game... if my ship explodes who cares ??? i make money for other... but i have had a chance to win !!! Give me a dark and blind space without a chance to escape . and yeah you can protect the minners all i can say - don't stay in empire in a missionrunner/mining corp. if you join a small PvP corp (and i'm not talking about gatecamping or empire wars against newbies) you'll get your adrenaline rush for sure. nothing beats the rush when you jump outnumbered into a hostile bubblecamp. or when you engage a cruiser in your closerange-interceptor. or when you try to tackle a sniping battleship. or when you jump with your ship into a gatecamp and you survive it. yeah - if you want to get rich EVE is a nice game for it .. but after a few month you'll be bored. but no one told you to get rich is the only way to enjoy the game ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Ki An Gallente Ghouls	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:38:00 - [56] While I agree with you (OP) in many regards, I don't really think EVE is boring when not in PvP. I won't say I enjoy mining as much as I enjoy fighting, but sometimes it can be fun sitting around low-sec with some corpies while keeping an eye out for pirates. If your looking for adrenalin, try facing a Deimos in a Covetor Anyway, I don't see EVE failing right now. Despite what you say EVE has broken online-records continuously during the fall, and right now CCP's hardware have a hard time keeping up with the player-influx. Also, the reason why not all 150k are online at the same time can be spelled alts and time-zones. /Ki
viuva	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:48:00 - [57] yeah eve is a great game ... no doubt about that ! thats why im still in eve... but i want more action... dont give soo many intel to players.. Remove the local would be great
Sir Drake	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Crumplecorn I want arenas so I can test setups without stopping at structure. A little part of me dies every time I have to do that. /me points at the test-server SiSi Ever tried the test-server? - 100 isk per ship/module and pretty much everything is available for testing - an "arena" system (cant remember the exact name atm) where you can PvP as much as you like without any risk ------------------------------------------------------- If you are either ignorant or american: Latin nominativ singular male: bonus nominativ plural male: boni [url="h
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:54:00 - [59] Originally by: Sir Drake - an "arena" system (cant remember the exact name atm) where you can PvP as much as you like without any risk FD-MLJ ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Deaths Wisper	Posted - 2006.11.25 00:30:00 - [60] Edited by: Deaths Wisper on 25/11/2006 00:33:57 ok i'm not reading the rest of this crap. if you think pvp is dull because it's not click click click click go play bf2 or cs. if you think pvp is dull and never happens use your head to find spots where people should be. it's like fishing(prolly why so many people have trouble fishing on rivers). this is how i roll If you think pvp combat takes no skill please learn to play or close your account. if you think there is no strategy see above this is not a game for people that want ANYTHING spoon fed to them as it's not going to happen(unless it's a fist full of boomsticks) use map and set bookmarks for obvious hot spots in the area jump to said hotspot see if anyone is in local(without local i'd just scan...) jump to a planet nearby a roid belt to locate prey find prey i have a chance at fighting or some dumbass carebare out here without weapons engage in fight to the death using the element of suprise hope the little sissy doesn't have all his low slots full of wcs rejoice that i just got a crapload of t2 stuff off of him try to jump out and run into a t2 bc at the gate and get vaporized/make it out with my prize and make a few duckets repeat if you play like the above and you still find this game dull please leave now. if you try the above and enjoy it try to join a corp in 0.0 space and get in on some real fights. if you cannot find people to fight you don't need to be playing such a complicated game(go play wow and enjoy your paint). if you lose a fight so what it happens. never fly what you can't afford to lose(unless i'm the one that killed you in which case thanks for all the fish). Yarr ect ect

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