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Mike Rothschild Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.20 10:29:54 - [1] - Quote Hello guys, hello everyone! So I am asking a question that might look dumb to you but who knows? I'm very interested in EVE's diplomacy which is pretty awesome, I have to say. But the point is that I am just on that great game for 2 months now and I must have many things to learn of course. And I want. So I read a lot about corporations, alliances and everything about politics but it's kinda hard to read through all of that. And I came in EVE for almost 2 reasons : the economy and the diplomacy, not so surprising since I plan to study IRL in finance and international relations. So I am looking for a diplomat in EVE who would be kind enough to be like a "teacher" because nothing is more important for me than learning from someone who knows what he's talking about. I don't know if it's the right place to write this and I apologize if not. Also, I am sorry for my english, I must have made so many mistakes. Thanks for answering though and helping me maybe. Good day guys and fly safe :)
Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 55	Posted - 2015.06.20 10:45:29 - [2] - Quote http://www.crisisprevention.com/Resources/Knowledge-Base/De-escalation-Tips https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_listening https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading Just a few hints what you can look out for. I also recommend at least a beginners handbook about hypnosis and watching lots of videos about con-artistry. But just so you know, the theory is completely worthless if you are unaware of how you yourself transport an outgoing message and interpret an incoming message. And you most likely are, because people are not being schooled about this at all. As this is EVE you can omit interpretation of body language, but are advised to learn to differentiate between the fine nuances in someone's voice. As a general rule: No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self. Be aware: Most people believe they know how to talk, simply because they talk. Most people also believe they are able to accurately judge others, but are unaware of their bias. Unless you have a history that proves you are able to manipulate people into a mindset of someone elses choice you should start completely from scratch. The fun approach is the most effective one and training in real life will help you more than hundreds of books. Why do you seperate "guys", from "everyone" ? I'm the distraction.
Mike Rothschild Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.20 10:53:31 - [3] - Quote Thanks for the answer! You are right of course. I don't pretend to know how to talk just because I am talking with people. People are so different that it is even impossible to pretend that. And this is the point of my message, learning how to interpret an incoming message and then respond in consequence as well as learning the history part of the game. Also, I may be not completly aware of my defects, but who can pretend to know that, but I am trying as hard as I can to learn something everytime I fail on a given situation. Why I failed and what should I do next time? All I want is advices and learning from someone, maybe like you. In my opinion, it's more like EVE experience will have an impact of my real-life experience and the other way to. That's what make this game so unpredictable and addictive! Thanks again for your help and advices. This is cool! EDIT : why do I separate this? It is just a kind of sentence I like to say :)
Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 56	Posted - 2015.06.20 11:07:07 - [4] - Quote Mike Rothschild wrote: It is just a kind of sentence I like to say :) This is exactly the unawareness I was pointing at. "I just like to say it" shows that you do not know why you say it. If you find out why, you have learned something about yourself. If you do know, share. I will check the response. As I said: There is not a single thing you say, write or do that isn't a reflection of your inner self. Catching the things that are "normal" or "just" is part of the process of understanding yourself and thus everyone else. And there is always a step deeper. The saying that one who knows himself also knows everyone else is 100% spot on. People are far less different than everyone believes. They lack the understanding of themselves to understand why it is the case. It usually also is a topic which will create opposition and anger, because egos tend to defend their imaginary uniqueness. I am taking this topic probably more seriously than you. :) I'm the distraction.
Mike Rothschild Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.06.20 11:35:59 - [5] - Quote You are maybe taking it more seriously than me but you taught me so much things though! But how people would know everything they say in a particular way? For me there are serious discussion, like a negociation, where everything we say matter and discussion where we can be more relaxed. And, I am curious and interested, I would like to know how you can learn, or even I can learn something about me by knowing why I said "guys" or "people" or anything? But now you say it, I understand that things that appear to be "normal" for someone are finally a kind of "window" to his personnality and thoughts? am I right? I realize that you are so true, we are living in a globalized world where everyone want to be someone, with a particular identity, a proper identity. In conclusin, we are all the same a many aspects and we don't pay much attention to what we say. Well, you are a good teacher! Thanks.
Zimmy Zeta Lisa Needs Braces. 57858	Posted - 2015.06.20 12:17:21 - [6] - Quote Oh hai there. For in game diplomacy, joining a large player alliance first would be advisable if you are interested in spacediplomancy- after all, npc-corps have not much use fo a diplomat. It's in the big alliances where you can learn the tools of the trade from more experienced diplomats. Be warned though, being a diplomat is usually a position that requires a lot of trust from your alliance, so most of them probably won't even consider you before you have made a name for yourself and proven your trustworthiness. As far as RL negotiations are concerned, I would strongly recomend two books: Ian Rowland- The Full Facts Book of Coldreading- various, pretty awesome and very effective tricks to manipulate people and make them believe that your know much more about them than you actually do. Zulawski /Wicklander: Practical Aspects of Interview and Interrrogation: This one is a little expensive but well worth the read. IIRC this is the book the FBI uses to train their investigators. Fantastic tips on how to detect if people are lying or how to get people to tell you thing they rather wouldn't. I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Mike Rothschild Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.20 12:28:55 - [7] - Quote Thanks a lot! I will definitely have a look at the books! Well, I already heard that joining a larger alliance would help and it is understanble though when thinking about it. But the main question is how do diplomat can prove themselves? You need a something like a "critical" situation to deal with it, but no one will let you face that kind of situation if you are a new to the game of course. You pointed what I wanted to say in that topic : learn the tools of the trade from more experienced players. Thanks for answering and have a nice day :)
Zimmy Zeta Lisa Needs Braces. 57858	Posted - 2015.06.20 12:39:13 - [8] - Quote Mike Rothschild wrote: But the main question is how do diplomat can prove themselves? You need a something like a "critical" situation to deal with it, but no one will let you face that kind of situation if you are a new to the game of course. My personal suggestion would be to get involved with the logistic backbone of your alliance: all those unfun chores that most players don't want to spend their time on, like supplying the local market, JF logistics, POS refueling etc. - you could become indispensable quickly and aquire much needed organziational skills. Also, should you decide to go rogue, you would be in a very good position to hit your alliance where it hurts....not that I recommend that or anything ... I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Mike Rothschild Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.06.20 12:48:13 - [9] - Quote Well, actually, I do not want to be an ******* to get what I want. You know, I am not like that. I want to help people, to help my future alliance. I am not that one who will stab you in the back just to "show", if it can show anything, that I am better. Yes, I know that sometimes, against enemies, I will have to do that but I would prefer the fresh-mind talking without angry. This is why I want a position affiliated with diplomacy. But, from what you've said, I do not mind getting involved with those things : I love economy so supplying the market would be nice and logistics are so important in this game. It helps me a lot. Thanks again!
Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 60	Posted - 2015.06.20 13:25:22 - [10] - Quote Mail sent. I'm the distraction.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1727	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:07:40 - [11] - Quote Chase Sion around and ask him for lessons. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 1	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:14:39 - [12] - Quote Thank you for the reply. I started watching the video but I wonder if Sion is still playing the game at the moment and why he would teach me lessons... I am just a new player amoung hundred other player. Thank you for the video! Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Pixie Tickle KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 60	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:28:40 - [13] - Quote You have so far aquired nine contacts, of which I am one. Some are in npc corporations, some are not. Though of all things, what bothers me the most is the last name you chose for your character. I'm the distraction.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10208	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:32:22 - [14] - Quote Pixie Tickle wrote: You have so far aquired nine contacts, of which I am one. Some are in npc corporations, some are not. Though of all things, what bothers me the most is the last name you chose for your character. You show yourself Relax =]\|[=
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 2	Posted - 2015.06.20 21:36:21 - [15] - Quote Well.. Yes, nine contacts... That is a good start with all I have to read and to do... For my name, I was not inspered for anything at the time I created my character so I took what passed by and I found Rothschild. Here is the story. Sorry for you, I can not change it! ;) Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 274	Posted - 2015.06.21 06:59:10 - [16] - Quote A diplomat is someone who thinks twice before saying nothing. I survived Win95
Daerrol Death By Design Did he say Jump 171	Posted - 2015.06.21 07:43:38 - [17] - Quote There's some real individuals in this thread. Like wow. Diplomacy is easy. Get some guys together. Get guns. Go out shooting. Show people you can shoot. Create agreements with local entities on who/what to shoot. Remember, "Master Blaster rules barter town!" is a form of (hostile) diplomacy! OFC you would use Mike Rothschild Rules Kamela, or something similar. I use your name because if you are not leading this ragtag band of misfits then why are you bothering at all?
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 275	Posted - 2015.06.21 10:16:03 - [18] - Quote Daerrol wrote: Get some guys together. Get guns. Go out shooting. Diplomacy by "other" means. This of course is a view held by those totally blind to the fact of rather large alliances that find such behavior....laughable. Diplomats serve a function. I survived Win95
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 2	Posted - 2015.06.21 10:29:49 - [19] - Quote Otso Bakarti you are right. Words are powerful and most of time, people do not realize the "true" power of a good sentence at the good time. "Daerrol" wrote: Diplomacy is easy. Get some guys together. Get guns. Go out shooting. Show people you can shoot. Create agreements with local entities on who/what to shoot. Remember, "Master Blaster rules barter town!" is a form of (hostile) diplomacy! OFC you would use Mike Rothschild Rules Kamela, or something similar. This is a point of view, I would rather get what I want by using words and friendship. Yes, army and persuasion or even blackmail if needed but this is not the method I would choose first. It only gets worse if people feel that you are feeling yourself more powerful than them. Speak to people as people. Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10212	Posted - 2015.06.21 10:32:22 - [20] - Quote Mike Rothschild wrote: Otso Bakarti you are right. Words are powerful and most of time, people do not realize the "true" power of a good sentence at the good time. "Daerrol" wrote: Diplomacy is easy. Get some guys together. Get guns. Go out shooting. Show people you can shoot. Create agreements with local entities on who/what to shoot. Remember, "Master Blaster rules barter town!" is a form of (hostile) diplomacy! OFC you would use Mike Rothschild Rules Kamela, or something similar. This is a point of view, I would rather get what I want by using words and friendship. Yes, army and persuasion or even blackmail if needed but this is not the method I would choose first. It only gets worse if people feel that you are feeling yourself more powerful than them. Speak to people as people. why hasnt any one mentioned vial rat yet... op, read this =]\|[=
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 2	Posted - 2015.06.21 10:42:27 - [21] - Quote Sean Smith is the first famous diplomat I heard even before coming in EVE Online. I did not mentioned him here by respect. I do not like to use people to prove my point of view or something. But it is definitely the guy who were the best diplomat by far. I have already read what you sent here and I found it heart touching and beyond words. When I was searching for anything on the Internet that could help me understand the EVE Online background, I found many things about Vile Rat that were so interesting that I could not stop reading. Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 335	Posted - 2015.06.21 20:13:20 - [22] - Quote Not trying to mess with anyones feelings... But imagine the stuff Vile Rat would be able to teach him.
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 2	Posted - 2015.06.23 06:29:52 - [23] - Quote Vile Rat was a great person and I would have liked to meet him... But he would not even have noticed me ^^ Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Vortexo VonBrenner Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord 1948	Posted - 2015.06.23 20:06:46 - [24] - Quote "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you get a big stick" :D OP, your English is fine. Better than many in Eve for whom English is their first language (how strange is that? :) ) Pixie Tickle wrote: ... what bothers me the most is the last name you chose for your character. Governor Tickle presided over a horrible genocide, but we won't hold that against you. :D When a thing has been said and well, have no scruple. Take it and copy it. - Anatole France A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought. - Dorothy L. Sayers
Khergit Deserters Crom's Angels 4112	Posted - 2015.06.23 21:37:26 - [25] - Quote Zimmy Zeta wrote: Mike Rothschild wrote: But the main question is how do diplomat can prove themselves? You need a something like a "critical" situation to deal with it, but no one will let you face that kind of situation if you are a new to the game of course. My personal suggestion would be to get involved with the logistic backbone of your alliance: all those unfun chores that most players don't want to spend their time on, like supplying the local market, JF logistics, POS refueling etc. - you could become indispensable quickly and aquire much needed organizational skills. I'd think doing some grunt work for a corp/alliance is a good way to work toward being a diplomat. My own experience (which is limited): -Was a high sec player who had only done PVE, industry and trading. Joined a faction warfare corp that was just forming. The founders were very experienced null sec players. I got an excellent crash course in PVP and EVE in general (ships, fittings, comms, tactics, etc.), just from hanging out in fleets. -I volunteered to do recruiting for the corp. A lot of time-consuming admin work involved, and hardly any time to undock. -Because the recruiting work naturally involved a lot of communicating and coordinating with the core officers, I ended up in the central circle of the hardworking guys that kept the corp organized and running. The "officers," that is. -I ended up being the "substitute/on-call diplomat." In other words, "If X or Y are not online, contact Z." I was Z. So, prepared for it or not, I ended doing live parlays with other corps/alliances. Which was difficult, because: a) I didn't have expert knowledge of the all of the relevant ingame items and game mechanics. In other words, I couldn't accurately assess a potential ally or rival's wealth and ability to project power. Compared to our group's wealth and power projection ability. Diplomacy is about getting the best deal possible for your group. If you can't accurately assess the value of the offer or the actual danger level of a threat, you just don't have the information needed to decide about the deal. b) If you're a newer player, you're likely not the final decision-maker for your corp/alliance. So as you discuss with an officer from an outside group, your role is limited to gathering information, giving some information in return, and not getting into any binding commitments. You don't want to give out too much information about your group's activities, plans, equipment, etc. But if it's a potentially good deal being offered, you don't want to be so evasive that you miss the opportunity. If you're being threatened, you don't want to appear intimidated, but you also don't want to start a war. And there's always the possibility that this guy is just feeding you disinformation to play with your group's head. The thing is, when something significant is going on, the outside groups want information and answers right now. So you're doing this live, via PM or voice comms. Duck, weave, feint, get the information, don't give too much information, don't offend the guy and blow the deal and get into a war, don't be overly cordial and make your corp look weak. When you add that to a) above, it's a tough job for a newer player. So, after that tl;dr, I'd say-- get as much expertise about the game items and game mechanics you can, so you can an effectively assess situations and make good deals. And maybe volunteer to be an admin grunt/officer for your corp/alliance for awhile, to eventually get into the inner decision-making circle. You're trying to conquer me You never will conquer me -Delroy Wilson
Jenshae Chiroptera 1738	Posted - 2015.06.24 02:05:14 - [26] - Quote Mike Rothschild wrote: Sean Smith is the first famous diplomat I heard even before coming in EVE Online. ... Reva is the most famous! CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 3	Posted - 2015.06.24 17:18:36 - [27] - Quote Thank you guys for all your answers! It is very educative! Your post is very instructive Khergit Deserters thank you very much. I will be reading it some times to really get all of what you've said. Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle
Mike Rothschild Coffee and Things Two Inch Terror 4	Posted - 2015.06.25 18:23:37 - [28] - Quote Sorry for that double post But I wanted to keep you up to date. I recently tried to contact Sion as someone said! It turned out that he answered me (thank him). Thank you for the advice because I wouldn't have known him anyway! Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle

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