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Sarah Johnson
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:10:00 -
[1]
Hello there!
What do you guys think about the following:
Add a new type of hardpoints (besides turret and launcher hardpoints) to the game: Mining-Laser turrets.
Then give maximal 2 to the frigates (which then mine alone with no extra defense (besides drones) in 1.0-0.6 space), 3 to the cruisers(mining with 2 medium weapons plus drones as defence in space above 0.0) and 3 to the battleships (mining with up to 5 big guns in 0.0). So a battleship can only fit 3 mining lasers and needs to mine high quality ore in 0.0 to make more money that someone mining with a cruiser.
Of course in that case the mining lasers, ore m¦ and other things have to be tweaked to get a fair amount of isk out of each ship class when mining.
What do you think about it? This would prevent every battleship owner from making lots of isk with no-risk mining in empire space.
(I hope nobody already had that idea and discussed it, so in that case just forget my post) 
Best
Sarah 
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:13:00 -
[2]
It has been suggested before and I think its essentially a good idea - battleships should have no mining turret hardpoints at all. They are battleships not miningships.
CCP could re-address this by doing something with indies. Dunno what, but something. I'm not paid to think for them, so I'm sure they could figure something out 
I don't think the mining laser hp idea will be implemented however.
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Dead
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Toulak
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:14:00 -
[3]
This ideas already come up too many times to remember by other people, although others called it an 'Industrial hardpoint'.
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:16:00 -
[4]
Miso...
Give 'em a twist, a flick of the wrist.
That's what the showman said.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 13/11/2003 14:26:29
ooh I have an idea... why don¦t we give them a name that indicates that it should be used in battles like battle.... errm never mind
Edid: I¦ve seen the original posters idea before and kind of like it
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Capacitor research |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:27:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Miso...
Give 'em a twist, a flick of the wrist.
That's what the showman said.
Excellent! thanks for that... I wonder what the rest of the lyrics are?
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Dead
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Carp Riddell
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:34:00 -
[7]
(Sarah - sorry for the thread hijack - it won't happen again 'cos I'm being nerfed in the next patch)
Quote:
Excellent! thanks for that... I wonder what the rest of the lyrics are?
The problem is I can't actually fit them to the song. I shall have to speak to a Vintage member of the family in order to find out.
Post war devastation, rationing, and this damn song. The 50's must have been grim...... (like Barnsley).
I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Coconuts
(Fred Heatherton)
Down at the county fair
One evening I was there
I heard a barker shouting
Underneath the flair...
"Oh, I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
There they are all standing in a row.
Big ones, small ones, some as big as your head.
Give 'em a twist, a flick of the wrist."
That's what the showman said.
Oi! I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
Every ball you throw will make me rich.
There stands me wife,
The idol of me life,
Singing roll a bowl, a ball, a penny a pitch.
Singing, roll a bowl a ball a penny a pitch.
Roll a bowl a ball a penny a pitch.
Roll a bowl a ball.
Roll a bowl a ball.
Singing, roll a bowl a ball a penny a pitch.
- Carp Riddell
- CEO, Innsmouth Shipping
- Proud Member of Curse Alliance
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fras
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Posted - 2003.11.13 14:50:00 -
[8]
dunno I think a tax would be much more effective.
With an industrial hardpoint it would make drone ships much more effective on the mining front so drones would also have to be tweaked. It's a bit of a balancing nightmare and I think a tax would even things out for everyone without having to mess with a number of different things.
Somewhere in the region of
frigs: 0%
Cruisers 33%
BS 66%
All 3 scaled depending on wether you're in 0.5 or 1.0
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Rickenbacker
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:08:00 -
[9]
Easy. Rename Battleships to something more generic, like Really Big Muthas and we won't have to worry about them being used for peaceful purposes...
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sim2killa
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:09:00 -
[10]
there is one thing you guys are not looking at. mineral and ore demand. If u restrict the # of miners on a ship it will take far to long to mine minerals for a bs. for trit alone it would take over 10 days of constant mining by one ship with 3 miner 2's and 4 harvestar drones. which yields 7.5mill trit and 3.7million pyrt which is only worth around 27.16million which for ten days of mining 24hrs a day which is impossible because of downime is not worth it.
However mining with a bs with 7 miner 2's 8 harv drones takes a little more then half the time. which would u prefer doing. thats why people use battleships
i do beleave however they should mine in deeper space, however mining there has far tomany disadvantages. and to limet the # of turrents on anyship is dumb. because relisticly all ships frigs, crus, and bs are all war ships this game just ****** up and made it far to easy for any idiot to get a bs.
The said thing is i see more bs and industrals then frigs and crus which is a deffinate problem to this game.
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Madsch20
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:13:00 -
[11]
someone who pay sooooooo much money for a Battleship can do what he want with it. why should BS' not be used for mining? thats the mosst expensive ship and if you have enough money you can also mine in Empire Space with a BS!!!
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Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:16:00 -
[12]
I think the best way to get mining Battleships out of empire space is to introduce titans and we can mine from those.
Problem solved...
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:23:00 -
[13]
My suggestion is decrease the profit made on minerals like Isogen, pyerite and all low quality minerals that cause the demand for the minerals drop and therefor decrease the profit.
You can do this by increasing the ammount of minerals you receive per ore, make scordite instead of 1000 units of trit. let it give you 2000 trit units.
More trit and other minerals on the market = less demand = lower prices.
This is equal for all lower minerals like pyerite, isogen, tritanium, mex and some of the others whatever their names are (i havent mined in 4 months now..)
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Matthew Johnson
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:27:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Matthew Johnson on 13/11/2003 15:29:01
hi!
The problem is not that mining with battleships in empire space should be forbitten...it should not just be the far most easiest way to get money in the game. If mining-hardpoints would be added, you could still mine in empire space, and could still make more ore/minute that the noob-frigates, but noch THAT much more.
If you say: "So I could never make the tritanium to build my own new battleship" you see that this would be a chance to get some player-run economy in the game. The newbies would then sell their 1 sk trit not to a NPC corp but to some player who has put an buy order at he noob-station.
And even if someone wants to mine large amounts of cheap ore, this could be solved by mining-only ships which have no dronebay and no weapon-hardpoints, but space for more mininglasers and a bigger cargo.
The reason, why even after mining-ships are ingame, battleships should have a least a few mining-hardpoints is, that else freelancers whould have no chance to mine in 0.0 alone. And one of the main principles of the game is, that you do not have to be a member of a corp to try out all ways to make money in eve.
Matthew
+++ Trade...good for you, good for me +++ |
Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.11.13 15:30:00 -
[15]
I think the easiest way to solve this is an Empire Mining Tax. The security rateing for each system would dictate the tax. Have it apply only to Battleships. Thus a 1.0 system would require a 10% tax. a 0.5 system, a 5% tax, ect.
Just my 2 ISK
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:05:00 -
[16]
I think the easiest, most effective way is to starve them out. Too many people are like those kids you hear stories about that parents can't get to leave the house after they've grown up.
So long as some profit remains in secure space that a battleship can take advantage of more than a smaller ship, too many people will use those battleships in secure space to take advantage of that profit. If there was a significant threat to ship and a profitable trade route in secure space, you'd find battleships with cargo expanders and MWDs equipped instead of industrials with an escort. Against a mindset like that, CCP has to go Ebil Parental Unit and starve the little anklebiters into growing up.
Another problem with the people who keep suggesting these mining vessels is they're ignoring the use of a battleship as a mining platform outside Empire space. You do not want to take an industrial into a real roid belt to mine in 0.0 space. "Real roid belt" meaning one that isn't suffering from some bug where the npc pirates are ignoring people's presence. Even with battleship escorts, an npc spawn is fully capable of destroying industrial grade ships before they are destroyed themselves.
And the final problem that people keep ignoring, perhaps willfully, is that the problem isn't over the name of the ship. Not the real problem. The real problem is the balance issues caused by the mining capacity of a ship with large number of mining lasers in high security space. Making a dedicated mining platform only solves the issue of offending people's sensibilities. If that mining platform has 8 mining points, it'll be right where the battleships are now sucking down scordite. And the issue will remain.
Starve them out.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:10:00 -
[17]
I think the easiest way yet is to cancel all unlimited battleship blueprint copies, hell cancel them all!
Convert Stations
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:13:00 -
[18]
i agree. there should be two branches of ships - one is a combat branch, which is already impelemented. another one - an industrial branch. top mining ships should cost as much as a tier 2 battleship. i dont think its balanced if a guy that was just mining with an apoc in 1.0 is gonna go to 0.0 and try shooting at ppl..
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Chucky
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:17:00 -
[19]
I'll say it again.
RESOURSE COLLECTION IS TOO SLOW
If there was something faster to mine with, I'd use it. Anyone who says mining with a Bship is too fast is not a active miner or high on *****
Whats next? nerf Indies?
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:24:00 -
[20]
It'll get faster with the next tech stages, all the whiners about battleships in empire space are just bummed 'cause not every owner of one wants to fight them.
Get rid of all the unlimited battleship blueprint copies, make copying them much harder and this will all die down.
Convert Stations
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Lucre
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:28:00 -
[21]
Quote:
dunno I think a tax would be much more effective.
frigs: 0%
Cruisers 33%
BS 66%
All 3 scaled depending on wether you're in 0.5 or 1.0
Tricky to implement. At point of sale you don't know how it was mined.
Better idea IMO (not mine) is to tax refining, based on local sec status (that's what the taxes pay for) possibly with a small daily allowance before the tax kicks in. Or even a stepped tax rate (which would be fairer on the cruiser miners but possibly too hard to implement).
If miners are paying say 80% tax in 1.0 systems for all refining after the first 20000 (?) ore in a day, then I reckon they'd move to where the tax was only 10%. Whilst noob and frigate miners would be largely unaffected.
Only drawback a corp mate pointed out is that it would kill the corporate market for unrefined ore in the 1.0 systems. OTOH it'd encourage noobs to learn to refine rather than (as I did) decide this is a waste of time and just sell the raw ore all the time.
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Dufas
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:29:00 -
[22]
i paid for the bs and if i wanna mine with the damn thing then i will...if u dont like it...too bad...everyone should be able to do with there ships as they want and not have stuff nerfed cause some cry babies dont like it if you can make more money mining then going around killing ppl...come out with a mining ship with 8 turrents and i'll use that to mine and use my apoc to kill u with...course then you'd be whinning about having to nerf pvp then right?
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:32:00 -
[23]
if it was like u say, u would have been podkilled 20 times in noobspace with no concord by the old m0o. nerfing is a natural process in MMOGs..
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:34:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I'll say it again.
RESOURSE COLLECTION IS TOO SLOW
If there was something faster to mine with, I'd use it. Anyone who says mining with a Bship is too fast is not a active miner or high on *****
Whats next? nerf Indies?
That's because you're not meant to mine large quantities of ore by yourself. Not if you're attempting to manufacture from the ore.
Is that the real reason for your problem with high sec mining made less profitable? You're already assed out on the manufacturing end as you've hit the limits of what you can do without paying others. And you're afraid the manufacturers that do pay others for their work will pay you what you're worth: Absolutely nothing as you want them to gift wrap the isk and bring it to you.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dufas
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:36:00 -
[25]
i paid for the bs and if i wanna mine with the damn thing then i will...if u dont like it...too bad...everyone should be able to do with there ships as they want and not have stuff nerfed cause some cry babies dont like it if you can make more money mining then going around killing ppl...come out with a mining ship with 8 turrents and i'll use that to mine and use my apoc to kill u with...course then you'd be whinning about having to nerf pvp then right?
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Lord Slappy
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:39:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lord Slappy on 13/11/2003 16:54:44
Quote:
I think the easiest, most effective way is to starve them out. Too many people are like those kids you hear stories about that parents can't get to leave the house after they've grown up.
So long as some profit remains in secure space that a battleship can take advantage of more than a smaller ship, too many people will use those battleships in secure space to take advantage of that profit. If there was a significant threat to ship and a profitable trade route in secure space, you'd find battleships with cargo expanders and MWDs equipped instead of industrials with an escort. Against a mindset like that, CCP has to go Ebil Parental Unit and starve the little anklebiters into growing up.
Another problem with the people who keep suggesting these mining vessels is they're ignoring the use of a battleship as a mining platform outside Empire space. You do not want to take an industrial into a real roid belt to mine in 0.0 space. "Real roid belt" meaning one that isn't suffering from some bug where the npc pirates are ignoring people's presence. Even with battleship escorts, an npc spawn is fully capable of destroying industrial grade ships before they are destroyed themselves.
And the final problem that people keep ignoring, perhaps willfully, is that the problem isn't over the name of the ship. Not the real problem. The real problem is the balance issues caused by the mining capacity of a ship with large number of mining lasers in high security space. Making a dedicated mining platform only solves the issue of offending people's sensibilities. If that mining platform has 8 mining points, it'll be right where the battleships are now sucking down scordite. And the issue will remain.
Starve them out.
...so a miner using the biggest ship with the most mounting point is taking advantage...like exploiters take advantage of bugs, like griefers take advantage of the spawn times, the same as pkers camping gates...
Its part of the game so its allowed, and the whiners are the griefers that have no prey..
Lets just remove the map system, and sentry guns, then remove concord to 1,0 space only...
f-cks sake ppl, pvp was an ASPECT not all of the damned game, but now its been ruined by you whiney assed griefers wanting more prey...
Just go play PLANETSIDE, HOMEWORLD2, any other game that is ALL PVP, you never wanted an mmorpg, you wanted a FPS |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.13 16:56:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
I think the easiest, most effective way is to starve them out. Too many people are like those kids you hear stories about that parents can't get to leave the house after they've grown up.
So long as some profit remains in secure space that a battleship can take advantage of more than a smaller ship, too many people will use those battleships in secure space to take advantage of that profit. If there was a significant threat to ship and a profitable trade route in secure space, you'd find battleships with cargo expanders and MWDs equipped instead of industrials with an escort. Against a mindset like that, CCP has to go Ebil Parental Unit and starve the little anklebiters into growing up.
Another problem with the people who keep suggesting these mining vessels is they're ignoring the use of a battleship as a mining platform outside Empire space. You do not want to take an industrial into a real roid belt to mine in 0.0 space. "Real roid belt" meaning one that isn't suffering from some bug where the npc pirates are ignoring people's presence. Even with battleship escorts, an npc spawn is fully capable of destroying industrial grade ships before they are destroyed themselves.
And the final problem that people keep ignoring, perhaps willfully, is that the problem isn't over the name of the ship. Not the real problem. The real problem is the balance issues caused by the mining capacity of a ship with large number of mining lasers in high security space. Making a dedicated mining platform only solves the issue of offending people's sensibilities. If that mining platform has 8 mining points, it'll be right where the battleships are now sucking down scordite. And the issue will remain.
Starve them out.
so a miner using the biggest ship with the most mounting point is taking advantage...like exploiters take advantage of bugs, like griefers take advantage of the spawn times, the same as pkers camping gates...
Its part of the game so its allowed, and the whiners are the griefers that have no prey..
Lets just remove the map system, and sentry guns, then remove concord to 1,0 space only...
f-cks sake ppl, pvp was an ASPECT not all of the damned game, but now its been ruined by you whiney assed griefers wanting more prey, go play PLANETSIDE, HOMEWORLD2, any other game that is ALL PVP, you never wanted an mmorpg, you was a FPS
Slappy, you seriously need to quit the game. You can't see beyond PvP aspects and will complain that every aspect of game balance is about piracy. You're honestly not that important in the scheme of things.
The development of the outlaying regions, the development of the markets there and the creation of communities there, are worth far more that WhiteDwarf's younger, less rationale little brother.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:02:00 -
[28]
How can a market develop there if no-one's let in?
Convert Stations
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Shock
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:10:00 -
[29]
Just give the ships that are specifically meant for mining huge special ship bonuses.
---
soonÖ |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.13 17:15:00 -
[30]
Quote:
How can a market develop there if no-one's let in?
And that's the problem, Danton. Not that people aren't being "let in". That people keep convincing others they just can't get through.
Said it in another thread, Biomass and SPVD are very good at what they do. But their average blockade can only handle so much traffic before the risk becomes too great in their books. The traffic being composed mostly of industrials help things greatly. And they're large scale pirate groups. The average pirate group rely completely on dealing with tourists. Residents will kill their operations in that area and force them to move on.
There is no safety in numbers if there are no numbers there in the first place.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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