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Sticky:[Aegis] More balance! - Ishtars, DDAs and the Tempest

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1433	Posted - 2015.06.22 16:01:57 - [1] - Quote Honestly, I'd let the slot change pan out a bit before nerfing DDA. I really think the slot change might be enough.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1433	Posted - 2015.06.22 16:54:12 - [2] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Altrue wrote: Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: More data for the cri-ers - http://i.imgur.com/afJycoE.png?1 PvP damage done by ship class, segmented by weapons type. Source? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5789717#post5789717 Good luck trying to get them to poast the original with numbers, or graphs with any Y axis scales. You know, it's clearly not right or the whole story since, you know, missiles aren't there.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1434	Posted - 2015.06.22 19:23:29 - [3] - Quote What about fleet 'pest?
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1436	Posted - 2015.06.22 21:36:54 - [4] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: afkalt wrote: What about fleet 'pest? Screw that. Is it going to carry forward to the Vargur? Not sure the best PvE hull needs more
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1437	Posted - 2015.06.23 08:37:01 - [5] - Quote Adriana Shi wrote: Alexander McKeon wrote: CCP Rise wrote: This is suggested so often but it just isn't the case. Drones not being locked to the size of their owner ship is one of the most consistent and distinct things about them. Vexors, VNIs, Myrmidons, Eos's, and Ishtars (at least) all use 'battleship sized' drones, and everything bigger than a destroyer can use 'frigate sized' drones. This flexibility is part of what makes drones really interesting and while sentries have become a big part of what makes certain hulls so strong, we don't want to lock drone ships into drones that match their ship size. And every single one of those hulls gets a generic bonus applying to all drone types, EXCEPT the Ishtar. It is also notable that only the VNI & Ishtar have what could be called a 'projection' bonus, though the VNI just gets drones to you faster. Sentries on sub-battleship hulls are fine. Sentries with bonused optimal range and tracking on those hull sizes are not balanced, and you won't find that on any of the drone boats you mentioned save this one. Vexor: +50% damage & HP Myrmidon: +50% damage & HP Eos: +50% Damage & HP Tristan: +50% HP & Tracking speed (Only has bandwidth for a flight of lights, two mediums, or one heavy) VNI: +50% Drone HP/damage, +25% Max Velocity & Tracking Ishtar: +25% Sentry HP & Damage, +50% HP/Damage other drones, +37.5% Heavy Drone max velocity & tracking +25% Sentry drone optimal range & tracking speed, +25km to drone operation range. Only one of these drone ships has a bonus to damage projection (which is important for sentries) and gets a bonus to drone control range, requiring fewer fitting compromises in order to kill a target 100km away. No other ship listed here can sit at such a range from their target while making as few fitting compromises as the Ishtar to get their drones working so far away, nor has the drone bandwidth / bay to deploy three full flights of sentries. The Ishtar is uniquely able amongst sub-battleship hulls to deploy sentry drones which are effective at long engagement ranges, control them from such a range, and carry enough drones to be effective over a sustained engagement. These things are why the Ishtar is broken. Remove the sentry application bonuses, keep the sentry DPS buff at +25%, and you'll find a much more balanced hull. This Alllllll of this! imo its not Shield Tar's that are broken or fast tar's that are... its the fact it can wield 5 sents and lulz at you 100+k away that extra omni for Traits anyone? i hope you realize CCP, You're killing the shield tar pretty hard here i know Gallent isn't really supposed to be shields but its nice to have more then 1 line of shield drone boats ie Gurista's. Shield domi isn't good, Shield Myrm? LULZ Also you realize you just made another VNI with that slot change? So honestly unless you're planning on Adding more shield drone boats i think this is a bad call. They're 100km away and hard to catch. It's a HELL of a lot easier to catch and gangbang a 1600mm ishtar than a shield one.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1438	Posted - 2015.06.23 09:45:38 - [6] - Quote I wouldn't be so sure. Those missile mods are going to do extremely bad things to the meta.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1439	Posted - 2015.06.23 11:43:14 - [7] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: For those who cry the Ishtar should just be a medium drone ship, 5 Hammerhead IIs on a 50% bonused ship will only out DPS high damage heavy missiles on a 5% bonused ship. Every other weapon system using 5 units with a 5% damage bonus will out damage 5 Hammerhead IIs which get a 50% damage bonus. On paper, not so much in reality. There is also the matter the drone ship can fit guns. That many do not is not due to fitting compromises so much as the fact they don't even need to.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1439	Posted - 2015.06.23 12:08:22 - [8] - Quote Lidia Caderu wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: For those who cry the Ishtar should just be a medium drone ship, 5 Hammerhead IIs on a 50% bonused ship will only out DPS high damage heavy missiles on a 5% bonused ship. Every other weapon system using 5 units with a 5% damage bonus will out damage 5 Hammerhead IIs which get a 50% damage bonus. Edit: Used a Gnosis as the testing ship, and remember Hammerheads are high damage drones so use the appropriate charges if you want to see the exact numbers. Use guns. Ishat may use 4 guns and a bonus for them. It will have even higher DPS than currently. So its possible to give 2 bonuses for drones and 2 for guns. Ishtar hasn't had bonused guns for the last two years there chief
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1439	Posted - 2015.06.23 13:05:18 - [9] - Quote Oh sorry, I didnt read that like a suggestion as much as the state of affairs today. It used to have that setup you see
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1439	Posted - 2015.06.23 13:45:50 - [10] - Quote Just for lulz. Give ishtars a stupid bonus to drone shield recharge rate such that they're hilariously hard to kill and need to be alpha'd and not worn down by smarties.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1439	Posted - 2015.06.23 14:53:30 - [11] - Quote But mine is the only chart which actually breaks weapon type vs hull down remotely precisely. The assumptions in your chart are not safe. It assumes that each stack colour means the same thing per ship class. Which makes sense for readability but not a lot of sense when one looks deeper. Take carriers vs battleships vs dictors, for example. What the hell is that yellow they all share?
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1443	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:32:38 - [12] - Quote You still can't use that chart, I'm sorry. It's too little data, not enough legend. For a start, structures are probably in there so that's massive skew off the bat. No better thing than drones for that. It amounts to a picture and saying 'see, the math shows this'
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1445	Posted - 2015.06.23 19:21:53 - [13] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I just find it amazing that a company known for heavy handed nerfing is tip-toeing around the Ishtar. What is this, the 4th or 5th minor tweak? Indeed - I still remember the initial HML proposed nerf of 25%, and the range hacked, and the application hammered! Although I think this one will do it for ishtars, they're counterable more realistically now.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1445	Posted - 2015.06.23 21:39:20 - [14] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: I hate the change. Drone PvE boats were already heavily behind all turret and missile based PvE ships after the last round of nerfbatting No they are not. PvE = ISK farming and you're using drones because you can deploy dentries and laugh in their face with no ISK spent on ammo. Please be more precise as to which drone carrier you're using and how it's "behind" because I fail to see it. As a frame of reference, I'm using a Muninn for my misssioning for pretty much the same reasons: artillery doesn't cost too much in ammo, and the speed keeps me alive. What are you fielding? Elaborate on why your favourite droneboat is behind. Then we'll talk. Sentries are going to fall hard into +-600dps now, and EVERY faction has a ratting ship which is at least 50% above that in dps (I mean 900-ish for average ratting ships and 1300-ish for blingy ones - which are 100% better than best Dominix you can fit with those changes). Ammo is not a problem, it doesn't cost half as much as people tend to think it is. And it is definitely worth the gap turret and missile ships have over drone ships now (at least 50%, remember). Dominixes were already used as secondary fire with assisted drones, where they got down from primary role in the drone nerfbatting process of late. Now even secondary is better off with a long range turret or missile ship - at least 15% advantage even despite all the application issues. Which means one thing - all those drone ships, drone rigs, half the gallente skills and all the drone SP have been rendered completely and utterly useless for PvE. Thanks a lot Rise, nice way to screw 5 months of sub off me. It's a T1 battleship. It has no right WHATSOEVER competing with pirate or faction hulls, but it does. It is in fact SO GOOD that the navy version is garbage for PvE by comparison. You set far too much stock in paper DPS to boot.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1445	Posted - 2015.06.24 09:00:10 - [15] - Quote Orca Platypus wrote: afkalt wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: Brokk Witgenstein wrote: Orca Platypus wrote: I hate the change. Drone PvE boats were already heavily behind all turret and missile based PvE ships after the last round of nerfbatting No they are not. PvE = ISK farming and you're using drones because you can deploy dentries and laugh in their face with no ISK spent on ammo. Please be more precise as to which drone carrier you're using and how it's "behind" because I fail to see it. As a frame of reference, I'm using a Muninn for my misssioning for pretty much the same reasons: artillery doesn't cost too much in ammo, and the speed keeps me alive. What are you fielding? Elaborate on why your favourite droneboat is behind. Then we'll talk. Sentries are going to fall hard into +-600dps now, and EVERY faction has a ratting ship which is at least 50% above that in dps (I mean 900-ish for average ratting ships and 1300-ish for blingy ones - which are 100% better than best Dominix you can fit with those changes). Ammo is not a problem, it doesn't cost half as much as people tend to think it is. And it is definitely worth the gap turret and missile ships have over drone ships now (at least 50%, remember). Dominixes were already used as secondary fire with assisted drones, where they got down from primary role in the drone nerfbatting process of late. Now even secondary is better off with a long range turret or missile ship - at least 15% advantage even despite all the application issues. Which means one thing - all those drone ships, drone rigs, half the gallente skills and all the drone SP have been rendered completely and utterly useless for PvE. Thanks a lot Rise, nice way to screw 5 months of sub off me. It's a T1 battleship. It has no right WHATSOEVER competing with pirate or faction hulls, but it does. It is in fact SO GOOD that the navy version is garbage for PvE by comparison. You set far too much stock in paper DPS to boot. You, sir, suck. First, since when being half as good is "competing"? Second, if you think Navynix is garbage, Guristas and Serpentis know well otherwise. The fact that it's faction-locked while Dominix is not is the only limiting factor. Otherwise it's a proper 1300-ish dps ratting ship. And I set not too much stock in paper dps. Honestly, people who can't manage consistent 20 million ticks shouldn't even talk. Wormholes don't have ticks. Come back to me when you put your big boy pants on. Stop whining like a little girl that your precious afk "ticks" are hurt. No-one, literally no-one, gives a flying ****. If you think this minor DDA nerf (and believe me, it's minor) renders them unusable, then I've nothing to tell you. Farmville is over there>>>>>
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1445	Posted - 2015.06.24 10:25:21 - [16] - Quote HiddenPorpoise wrote: Beast mode Navydomi is still over 1500 dps and still a scary if rare sight. Absolutely, but are almost always a sub par choice for general PvE work. Many other hulls are a far more efficient choice. They are very nice in PvP, however, for me remain overshadowed by vindicators - accept no substitute at those ranges.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1445	Posted - 2015.06.24 11:14:18 - [17] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: Navy Dominix compares very favorably even in PvE with the standard Dominix. You just take that extra mid slot and stick a Omnitracker in it, and you have most of a standard Dominix with 50% more tank and bonused rails. I'm not sure what 'completely overshadowed' means in hyperbole land, but the N.Domi is a fine ship for PvE, if you are silly enough to still be bothering with the hassle of drone eating AI. I don't like the DDA change myself. Drones were a joke for almost as long as they have been in game. Finally given a fair shake in PvP they have gotten nothing but nerfed since the Domi finally got bonuses making it a full drone ship instead of a split weapon ship. Sooner or later they are going to be relegated to being laughed off the field again, and be in a worse place for PvE than ever before. The fitting is a lot harder than you think, it is not a generously resourced ship - the guns are necessary in order to make up for the projection shortfall leaving little room for DLAs (i.e. none) and you're paying through the nose for it to boot. More isk outlay, more expenses in the form of ammo. All to approximately break even in applied DPS to rat ships? No thanks. Not ever. Unless you're running anoms point blank at 0 and using heavies, but let's leave edge cases with super convenient spawns aside, I think.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1455	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:46:41 - [18] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Ellendras Silver wrote: give me some examples because the only droneboats used in PVP are ishtars and sometimes domis in large battles i dont think domi`s are OP in this way but if you think so plz enlighten me. but dont just ramble something use arguments and some form of evidence that these ships are OP in any way Perhaps the fact droneboats are by and far the largest sources of damage and destruction at (nearly) every ship hull size sub capital (Source CCP Fozzie made a statement regarding this https://embed.gyazo.com/45277828e1b46c214fe892021888099a.png) (and im sure if you ignored Catalyst ganking in HS they would be up there for Destroyers as well) Vexors are popular gankboats too. What would be more interesting is removing structure bashes from these numbers. They skew it hardcore to lasers and drones for obvious reasons.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1455	Posted - 2015.06.25 14:54:25 - [19] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: afkalt wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Ellendras Silver wrote: give me some examples because the only droneboats used in PVP are ishtars and sometimes domis in large battles i dont think domi`s are OP in this way but if you think so plz enlighten me. but dont just ramble something use arguments and some form of evidence that these ships are OP in any way Perhaps the fact droneboats are by and far the largest sources of damage and destruction at (nearly) every ship hull size sub capital (Source CCP Fozzie made a statement regarding this https://embed.gyazo.com/45277828e1b46c214fe892021888099a.png) (and im sure if you ignored Catalyst ganking in HS they would be up there for Destroyers as well) Vexors are popular gankboats too. What would be more interesting is removing structure bashes from these numbers. They skew it hardcore to lasers and drones for obvious reasons. Why would you ignore structure bashing, if people are using drones over other weapons for that in such numbers that it heavily skews total damage, then that is only another example of why drones are heads and shoulders above the competition. Because of the no ammo/no cycle thing, it's why lasers are up there too. Even if they are crap at everything else, they will still be economically superior/easier on the pilot/afk-able. Or show the values split out, I don't mind. Lumping it together can easily mask poor systems - for example if something is ONLY used to grid HPs but never used in ship to ship combat, that's a huge problem - lumping it all as one masks this big time.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1456	Posted - 2015.06.25 16:23:10 - [20] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: afkalt wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Why would you ignore structure bashing, if people are using drones over other weapons for that in such numbers that it heavily skews total damage, then that is only another example of why drones are heads and shoulders above the competition. Because of the no ammo/no cycle thing, it's why lasers are up there too. Even if they are crap at everything else, they will still be economically superior/easier on the pilot/afk-able. Or show the values split out, I don't mind. Lumping it together can easily mask poor systems - for example if something is ONLY used to grid HPs but never used in ship to ship combat, that's a huge problem - lumping it all as one masks this big time. Except in this case, we know this isn't the case. Bashes don't hide any weapon system lack of use in actual combat. My point remains in general terms in that HOW a weapon is used, what it shoots, is very relevant and -missing- data. For example, I suspect lasers aren't as well represented as the charts suggest because HP bashes are good for them. Is bashing PvP? Sure I suppose, but data like this isn't much use to discern actual combat balance....the data is too high level. To be clear, I'm not saying drones are fine - what I'm saying is that without lower granularity on the figures an accurate assessment of just how out of whack compared to others just isn't possible for us.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1459	Posted - 2015.06.26 06:37:11 - [21] - Quote Rise, maybe next time split the ship nerf thread away from the module nerf one, apparently people don't understand they're separate.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1459	Posted - 2015.06.26 07:08:34 - [22] - Quote It'll slow down my L4 domi alts a little, but really...for a 3 month train I'm not sure they should be bossing the L4s like they are
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1461	Posted - 2015.06.26 11:43:15 - [23] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason. THIS IS WHY
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1474	Posted - 2015.06.26 21:52:31 - [24] - Quote Irya Boone wrote: So you are nerfing DDA now and buffing missiles ? So we must all swap to caldari ships for pvp? you have a problem with understanding your game and how people play the game , I don't know how you read your datas and how you retrieve them from the game , but you really should play a little bit more your own game So i suppose that after the realease of the hecate you gonna nerf small railgun too? Nah, the missile buff was a bait and switch. Never not nerf caldari.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1493	Posted - 2015.06.30 19:37:41 - [25] - Quote Allaera wrote: Nafensoriel wrote: Size locking drones becomes a very nasty bag of worms once opened. CCP invalidated that argument some time ago with the 3 precedents they have already set on this particular subject - I draw your attention to the Rattlesnake, Gila and Worm. Unbonused =/= size locked.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1495	Posted - 2015.06.30 21:32:52 - [26] - Quote Kateryna wrote: You are nerfing ALL drone boat just for a fix on one Ship ? That's silly. afkalt wrote: Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason. THIS IS WHY
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1495	Posted - 2015.07.01 07:31:22 - [27] - Quote Gaamaar wrote: Not mentioning 5 years of skill training You did something very wrong here. Gaamaar wrote: Do we get a refund of ISK for a crippled Ishtar? YES! This can be accommodated. Fly it directly to Jita station on planet IV, moon IV and list it with the broker agents for an immediate isk injection and the relief of the hull. Note for administrative reasons, you will need to repackage the hull. For any questions please call 1-800-NERF-ISHTARS.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1505	Posted - 2015.07.01 17:54:51 - [28] - Quote Aplysia Vejun wrote: I won't fit anything for combat in my highs. -a cloak and a core probe scanner are the only things there. i just don't have the pgen nor the cpu to fit anything. It's not BAD - the dps from the drones is enough balancing-wise. but still... those wasted slots are annoying sometimes. Why not? You can fit the new ishtar to have 2 neuts, a nos, dual rep (tanks 578 DPS vs thermal/kinetic), cap booster....548 DPS with explosive drones. All before heat. Cap life of over 9 mins with the MWD off (and meta 4 instead of T2 tackle, I missed that the first time), which with scram web, it should be able to be. Hell the thing is really quite scary. It can even fit a cloak, if you like.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1517	Posted - 2015.07.02 11:51:04 - [29] - Quote Lili Andedare wrote: Lets nerf all dronboats coz they are ALL too strong. ALL OF THEM . You made an extensive series of typos. I have fixed this for you. You're welcome.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1527	Posted - 2015.07.02 13:26:07 - [30] - Quote How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason. THIS IS WHY
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1558	Posted - 2015.07.03 07:29:42 - [31] - Quote Kibitt Kallinikov wrote: Sumeragy wrote: HiddenPorpoise wrote: Why did the level of literacy drop so sharply in the past 3 pages? The drake didn't take a <6% drop in damage. I would say more, it did lost a Weapon slot and the heavy missiles where nerved now they are buffing it again (the heavy missiles). The Drake lost also a lot of Tank. Old Drake: 7 missile launchers, 5% kinetic missile bonus = 8.75 effective launchers New Drake: 6 missile launchers, 10% kinetic missile bonus = 9 effective launchers I'm not sure if there was ever a point where it had 7 launchers with 10% bonus, but the new Drake definitely deals more kinetic DPS than the old one. Folks are likely also including the massive heavy missile nerf...which makes a mockery of the current "severe" nerfs people complain about. -Base flight time reduced by 35% -Base velocity increased by 14.66% -In total, base range reduced by ~25% -Damage decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit) -Explosion radius increased by 12% And that was slightly watered down, they originally wanted a 20% nerf. So yeah, there's no question about new vs old drake when you consider this along side it.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1607	Posted - 2015.07.07 12:19:20 - [32] - Quote Zenmaster Aihaken wrote: I've been skilling drones and Ishtar for, I dunno, over half a year. I want my money back. Trains into worlds most OBVIOUSLY overpowered hull and weapon. These are nerfed. Cries "unfair" that they are now maybe in the same league as everyone else. Aaaaah eve-o forums. Delivering shiptoasting 24/7/365
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1607	Posted - 2015.07.07 12:54:16 - [33] - Quote Quadima wrote: Perhaps all marauders, it's kinda lame that these terribly expensive ships that require a huge amount of training have less damage than pirate bs, and sometimes barely on par with Tech1 versions. Apparently you've not seen what an angry marauder is capable of.... BadGuy NoRules wrote: they don't like when ppl buy Plex ingame. You literally couldn't have less of a clue about this. Literally, impossible.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1607	Posted - 2015.07.07 12:59:12 - [34] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: afkalt wrote: Zenmaster Aihaken wrote: I've been skilling drones and Ishtar for, I dunno, over half a year. I want my money back. Trains into worlds most OBVIOUSLY overpowered hull and weapon. These are nerfed. Cries "unfair" that they are now maybe in the same league as everyone else. Aaaaah eve-o forums. Delivering shiptoasting 24/7/365 The funniest part is that if you've only been training for it for half a year, it was already aboard the nerf train. It's a slow train but it was on-board already... Plus training to T2 sentries takes a fairly short time. Well under 2 months. I did some tests and Gal BS IV and a full RR setup with T2 sentries is possible in under 2 months. So what the hell this guy did is beyond me. "Must train drones!" "ooooh shiny!!!!!!!"
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1608	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:18:03 - [35] - Quote Catalina Franklin wrote: Drone hate is getting old. And I think that you shouldn't nerf an entire skill set because of one ship. Why not modify the one ship in question to bring it in line instead of doing a blanket nerf and hurting hulls that didn't necessarily need a damage decrease to begin with. How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason. THIS IS WHY IT IS NOT ONE SHIP SAVVY?
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1608	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:35:40 - [36] - Quote Catalina Franklin wrote: So because when I started this game I was pushed towards Gallente and Drones I should be punished. Drones have plenty of mechanics that don't make any sense but I don't see any changes on those. Just the damage. And I don't see any actual numbers on that post so how do I tell how much of a difference there really is? You chased the known and obviously overpowered FOTM. Punished? No, I think not. Brought into line, more like it. What you are doing is whining about being brought into line, about no longer roflstomping comparable hulls. You'll forgive us if we are not sympathetic to your "plight" about no longer being better than everyone else. Here are some numbers http://i.imgur.com/yfeQpc4.jpg The only thing brighter than drones are bombs, which are AoE!!!
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1609	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:49:25 - [37] - Quote Xenuria wrote: In your attempts to fix drone based PVP you have once again shafted anybody who would even think for a second, that drones are a viable damage source in PVE. It's a small nerf, get over yourselves. What these drone babies need, is a HML scale nerf, then you'll know all about it. Frankly drones are getting the feather duster treatment whereas heavy missiles took it so hard they've not sat down since mid-2012.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1627	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:52:24 - [38] - Quote Spugg Galdon wrote: MWD Speed - 1221m/s cold (1732 m/s hot) Cap stable under propulsion That's like drake slow... This will really hurt them. It makes them far less able to dictate range successfully around sentry tracking an optimals, makes bubbling them that much more effective too. The old shield fits were a solid 20-25% faster. They'll still be effective to be sure (nothing wrong with that) but I feel like some decent counterplay has room to grow into the new space. Now if only the missile mods had been less bad, that would have afforded some excellent tools to shake the meta up but...whatever....can't have everything.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1776	Posted - 2015.08.10 12:19:45 - [39] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: If a ship is not over powered then why nerf it just because it's popular? Thank god then that the ishtar was totally broken.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1781	Posted - 2015.08.11 07:25:36 - [40] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: That is your opinion. The devs have posted no facts that I have seen as justification for nerfing the ishtar other than it's popularity. As a person who didn't really fly them I can't speak from experience on the ishtar it's self and I am not commenting on if it needed to be nerfed or not since I did not fly it before and I do not fly it now and I've not even spent any time with it in EFT to know the numbers. Also I'm not a PvPer. Also you'd have a hard time convincing me any ship was broken when anyone can fly any ship. If the ship is so much better than every other ship then fly it. But again none of the above has anything to do with my main point. My main point is that all drone boats are getting nerfed due to the Ishtar. Also the only justification that is given is the fact that the ishtar and the Domi are very popular. I am saying that the fact that a ship is popular is not proof that it is over powered. It is just proof that people like it. Maybe they like it because it's over powered maybe they like it because it looks nice maybe they like it because it's easy to fly and they are lazy. I fly the domi all the time. I started flying the domi when drone dps was just super easy. Now drones take a little more management but I'm used to drones and it's the style that I like. The domi is out dpsed by most other Battleships. It has no tank bonus so it's tank I don't think is over powered however it's versatile in that it can have a decent tank for all 4 damage types. You pretty much have to use sentries in PvE to put any acceptable amount of damage on your targets which means that you are stuck in one spot. Yes you can use any damage type but your range is tied to your drone choice so you can't do therm at long ranges for example. I flew the Domi before drone damage mods even existed so I'll probably still fly it after the nerf. I'm not crying that CCP is nerfing my favorite ship into unusability. All that I am saying is that the fact that a ship is popular is not a good reason to nerf it. You can nerf a popular ship I'm just saying give some justification other than "everyone is flying it" especially when it comes to a ship like the domi which up until recently was the only of the 12 T1 Battleships which was a drone boat and even now there is only 2 of the 12. ( TBH I've never even looked at the Geddon since it's been changed.) anyway that's my rant and I just wanted to add that "the ishtar was totally broken" means nothing without some facts or context of some sort. Next time you go off ranting, trying reading TFThread first. How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: How many times do I need to quote myself in the same frikken thread?!?!?!??!?!??! afkalt wrote: Kaivar Lancer wrote: Why is the DDA getting nerfed? Nerf the hulls, not the module. Other drone boats like the Dragoon just got nerfed for no reason. THIS IS WHY IT IS NOT ONE SHIP SAVVY?

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