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Lord Kailethre
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
103
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Posted - 2015.06.26 09:21:51 -
[31] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:Why not simply turn over the biomass? I believe that Lord Raholan has misgivings about CONCORD's intent, especially given their recent actions in regards to Drifter related incidents and information. And it's completely understandable, especially since they're now threatening him because of it. It's all quite fishy. Threatening to confiscate evidence needed for an ongoing investigation is not an uncommon procedure for law enforcement, and it is normal for a refusal to cooperate to be met with judicial punishment.
Unfortunately I do have all the facts of the matter. This is simply what is evident from what Lord Raholan has said and wrote. For a more in depth answer I believe that Lord Raholan himself will have to field it.
It's entirely possible he no longer views CONCORD as an entity that should wield judicial power. |
iyammarrok
Ultramar Independent Contracting
332
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Posted - 2015.06.26 09:28:26 -
[32] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:Why not simply turn over the biomass? I believe that Lord Raholan has misgivings about CONCORD's intent, especially given their recent actions in regards to Drifter related incidents and information. And it's completely understandable, especially since they're now threatening him because of it. It's all quite fishy. Threatening to confiscate evidence needed for an ongoing investigation is not an uncommon procedure for law enforcement, and it is normal for a refusal to cooperate to be met with judicial punishment. Unfortunately I do have all the facts of the matter. This is simply what is evident from what Lord Raholan has said and wrote. For a more in depth answer I believe that Lord Raholan himself will have to field it. It's entirely possible he no longer views CONCORD as an entity that should wield judicial power.
His views are irrelevant in the face of the fact that they currently DO wield such power.
Unless he wants his intransigence to cost everyone involved their freedom, he should probably comply.
-Tertianus Rethelior
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1680
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Posted - 2015.06.26 09:29:43 -
[33] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:It's entirely possible he no longer views CONCORD as an entity that should wield judicial power.
With utmost respect to his lordship, obedience to lawful authority is not a matter decided by personal views. Does his lordship believe his subjects should also have a right to refuse to obey him because they arbitrarily decide that his authority is not valid?
CONCORD should not wield judicial power, this I agree on. But they do.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
138
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Posted - 2015.06.26 09:47:30 -
[34] - Quote
"Concerns of intentions of your group"?! Do you really mean that?! After giving us all this shiny medal?! Just... wow! Let me ask you a question - how fast would we be dead and gone if we were baseliner researchers? And how fast would you again go hush-hush and nothing happened?
Well we are not like that. We, unlike these poor brave SCOPE reporters and the Eifyr and Co. employee who we STILL don't know anything about, have the ability to go all out for the people of this cluster!
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
10
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:02:14 -
[35] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Why not simply turn over the biomass?
Of course I by no means am Raholan-san's representative in the matter, but I would most definitely not hand the sample over. Not the whole piece at least. If approached with a polite request, not a threat that we currently witness, I would be willing to consider sharing the sample and any research outcome I was able to produce (which, as I believe, we already did) in exchange for a statement that any results from the other side's investigation would also be reported to the public.
By trying to acquire the WHOLE sample for internal "analysis and formal legal confirmation of identity" DED is not only undermining dr. Scherezad's and dr. Tenebrae's work but also sending a feed to the conspiracy theorists that they do not want anymore public, independent research to be commenced because [please fill in with Your current favourite gossip, plot etc.].
Decrypting the Sleeper cache..
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Haria Haritimado
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
48
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:04:25 -
[36] - Quote
To the honored CONCORD Assembly,
To fellow Capsuleers,
I am deeply concerned by the steps taken by Brigadier General Odo Korachi. Many valid doubts have already been brought forth against his course of action. I would like to address some of them specifically.
(1) The request for tissue samples being handed over to Directive Enforcement Department (DED) has been anounced as a press statement by DED Director of Operations Arve Vesren (117-06-08 20:01). No legal basis or executive order has been made publicly known at this time.
(2) The usage of the public security status system - which is a fundamental instrument to maintain a balanced stellar peace for the cluster - as a means of coercion against law abiding individuals is a fundamental threat to CONCORD's legitimacy and the security system itself.
(3) It has now become totally apparent to the stellar community, that the DED is deeply concerned about the latest revelations regarding the drifter threat, the fate of Dr. Hilen Tukoss, and the issue of genetic identity and possible alterations of a certain type. If we are expected to trust CONCORD and the DED to act on behalf of New Eden's security and well-being, we expect CONCORD and the DED to trust us and share the reasons for those serious concerns with us in return.
(4) To exert executive power without legal basis and reason - even with the intend to protect and defend the well-being of citizens - is an indication of dictatorship and suppression - even when directed against transhumanist beings. It must be explained and detailed how Article 5, Section C of the Yulai Convention is deemed relevant in the case at hand and how honored BGen Odo Korachi's executive steps are deemed appropriate. All people addressed by the 'final demand' are citizens of one of the nations or members of closely affiliated corporations.
The Pakshi Peace Conference closed its commission work a few days ago. Two commissions were specificly dedicated to the role and future of CONCORD. There is an atmosphere of tension, mistrust, and resentment against CONCORD on the rise. Nevertheless, the Peace Conference and many independent Capsuleers clearly support the ideal and mission of CONCORD. Reason and civilized communication is necessary to overcome these tensions and to clarify for all involved how we want to take on future threats directed towards our societies.
Clearly, escalation through harsh ultimatum and threat, directed against respected citizens and capsuleers, is not helpful to calm emotions down and create such a mutual debate about our future security. I address the honored CONCORD Assembly and Inner Circle to review the acting of BGen Odo Korachi and issue an urgent instruction to cease any hostilities against the capsuleers threatened by BGen Korachi's 'final demand'. I furthermore address the representatives of the four nations to make a public statement as soon as possible.
Respectfully yours,
Haria Haritimado
Delegate to the Pakhshi Peace Conference
Character blog: Horizons and Reflections
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Lord Kailethre
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
103
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:23:05 -
[37] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:It's entirely possible he no longer views CONCORD as an entity that should wield judicial power. With utmost respect to his lordship, obedience to lawful authority is not a matter decided by personal views. Does his lordship believe his subjects should also have a right to refuse to obey him because they arbitrarily decide that his authority is not valid? CONCORD should not wield judicial power, this I agree on. But they do.
I can't claim to know how Lord Raholan's mind works, only that these appear to be his outward views.
He actually hasn't told anyone in the Society, to my knowledge, his feelings on the matter. Only that he refuses to hand over the 'evidence.' |
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
1135
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:24:51 -
[38] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Two things spring to mind here immediately.
Firstly this sample was collected from a salvage mission *outside* of Empire space and CONCORD control sphere. This surely means that any and all materials discovered fall under the laws of astro-maritime salvage.
People usually don't fall under salvage laws. Even in societies where people can be properties, there is usually a legal distinction between them and livestock or material goods.
Moreover, the DED does operate outside of empire space.
Quote:Secondly CONCORD would not need all samples to clarify that these were indeed the remains of Hilen Tukoss. one would be sufficient to verify the genetic identity if this were to legally force the activation of a med-clone.
Given the nature of what happened to Hilen Tukoss, I doubt they want the samples simply to verify the remains.
Quote: Are CONCORD a group formed for the protection of the Empires or to control them by force?
Actually, CONCORD was formed to keep the peace between empires. They regulate capsuleer activities as part of their remit to handle intergalactic trade, specifically cloning.
Also because their ships can act throughout a larger part of the cluster than that of any empire.
Quote: CONCORD is acting arbitrarily and assuming that they can command independent residents of the Empires to do as they are bid. CONCORD is there to keep the peace between the Empires, not enforce laws within them.
If you have a clone body then you are not 'independent.'
Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
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Frenjo Borkstar
Borkstar Laboratories
87
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:36:09 -
[39] - Quote
Jev North wrote:Rhavas wrote:The idea that CONCORD is anything other than wholly corrupt is laughable [...] CONCORD has hardly ever acted differently towards capsuleers than it does; this is its machinery working as intended.
The machine's case has been opened, and that has been exposed now. To their detriment.
Elements that they may try to "seize" are being evacuated to null security space (I know mine has!), where CONCORD will get a fight from owners if they try to get it.
They're not getting that biomass, lest they damage it, end of.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
Project Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus.
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John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
398
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:37:19 -
[40] - Quote
The Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive urges all parties involved to adhere to the DED request and hand over the remains of the late Hilen Tukoss. After receiving a response from DED Officials to our request for leniency to all involved. While this request was rebuffed, several points of conduct were produced and while Tukoss was a traitor to the Caldari State the man deserves to at least be properly and legally identified by the DED and put to rest in a proper manner.
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
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Frenjo Borkstar
Borkstar Laboratories
87
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:10:55 -
[41] - Quote
I myself have now recieved a response to my mail.
It states that I should convince my fellow scientists to do "the right thing" by handing over the body so the DED can "lay him to rest in an honourable manner". In said mail, he didn't even refer to me as "Dr. Borkstar" instead calling me "Mr." yet he talks about honour. I earned my title, and I have the right to request that I be referred to by it.
To be blank, not happening. It is not the right thing to do at all.
My points in said mail stand, as they do here.
EDIT: Link to mail conversation so far is here.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
Project Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1257
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Posted - 2015.06.26 11:44:15 -
[42] - Quote
I don't suppose that Hilen Tukoss left a will stating that he left any and all mortal remains to science?
Normally I would agree that his remains should be delivered to his family. However we do not know the nature and source of his unusual brain structure. If it is proprietary to one of the clusters corps then they should say so and all investigation cease. If this is something that Hilen came by in Drifter space whilst away we really need to know everything we can about it.
CONCORD's approach in this matter disturbs me, I have and continue to deliver my service to the Empires in defence against the various pirates that inhabit them. I believe that I and those like me deserve some transparency on this. It's about time CONCORD told us just what exactly is going on with the Jove and the Drifters? |
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
138
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:43:44 -
[43] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:I don't suppose that Hilen Tukoss left a will stating that he left any and all mortal remains to science?
He left a whole bunch of backups, that's the point.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
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Rhiannon Dellacorte
Liberty Vanguard
185
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Posted - 2015.06.26 12:50:33 -
[44] - Quote
Lord Kailethre wrote:Scherezad wrote:Keihaat kotautkko! C-can I get a translation, please?
"Keihaat" is "hiding"
...Having trouble with the second word.
Rules of Acquisition #261
A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1258
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:00:04 -
[45] - Quote
Rhiannon Dellacorte wrote:Lord Kailethre wrote:Scherezad wrote:Keihaat kotautkko! C-can I get a translation, please? "Keihaat" is "hiding" ...Having trouble with the second word.
Could it be 'cucumber'?
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Tiberious Thessalonia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
2400
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:12:15 -
[46] - Quote
My advice is to throw the remains into a star and let his memory rot. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
1786
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:24:16 -
[47] - Quote
Will Gauss wrote:CONCORD, through actions like this and the imprisonment of press who did little more than report the news truthfully has delegitimized itself and no longer represents the capsuleer community, and as such, holds no rightful authority over the capsuleer community.
Once created to serve the law, CONCORD today is little more than just another pirate faction using force to enforce its will and should only be regarded as such: shot at and removed from endangering others like any other pirate entities found on one's overview.
They never represented the capsuleers, CONCORD was created by Empires and works with them(more or less).
As long they have power, be it CONCORD, Empires, capsuleer entities, they can do whatever they want this true in majority of cases.
Rhavas wrote:...For those of you left in the Empires, hold to what dignity remains, and throw off the shackles of these sad, corrupt, and devoid of purpose self-appointed rulers that think themselves above your own leaders...
I'm confused are you describing capsuleer entities.
Akrasjel Lanate
Member of Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Citizen of Solitude
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma
New Eden Research Coalition
25
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:21:30 -
[48] - Quote
Through Odo Korachi, CONCORD has been served with legal papers regarding the unlawful and unprecedented threat to seize material property from Capsuleers.
Order to Show Cause |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
5071
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:21:58 -
[49] - Quote
Concord represents capsuleers in the same way that the Caracal represents small fluffy, flightless, raptor chicks. I am amazed that anybody has failed to see this.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Rhavas
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
442
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:26:20 -
[50] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Will Gauss wrote:[quote=Rhavas]...For those of you left in the Empires, hold to what dignity remains, and throw off the shackles of these sad, corrupt, and devoid of purpose self-appointed rulers that think themselves above your own leaders... I'm confused are you describing capsuleer entities.
You are confused because you removed the rest of the paragraph.
[Quote=Rhavas]Make your voices heard. And if that is not sufficient, join those who have left their confines for wormholes and the empires of the outer regions.[\quote]
The Gallente should vote for leaders who believe in their way, which this dictatorial approach is not. The Tribes should decide if, having thrown off the Empire and at last looking to our roots for the right governance, they will bend the knee to those who have shown both incompetence and prejudice in this very matter against Eifyr. The Holders should look at the that the Drifters bring to their holdings and the inaction of CONCORD and petition the Empress to demand and exercise her sovereignty. And the Caldari should be most insulted of all - many of these capsuleers are a subsidiary of Ishukone, and Mens Reppola should be demanding independence to say nothing of the Caldari view that Tukoss was a traitor.
As for capsuleers, vote with your warp drives as I suggest.
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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Rhavas
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
444
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Posted - 2015.06.26 14:40:10 -
[51] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Concord represents capsuleers in the same way that the Caracal represents small fluffy, flightless, raptor chicks. I am amazed that anybody has failed to see this.
CONCORD does not, and never has, represented capsuleers in any way. They are the Jove-appointed referees of conflict between the empires. That said they have long shown aspirations of meta empire and belief that capsuleers should obey them. And now they are making their first stumbles toward dictatorial authority. We'll you be sheep and give them that power?
The Jove are gone and it is time to revoke CONCORD's charter.
Author of Interstellar Privateer
Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary
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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma
New Eden Research Coalition
25
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Posted - 2015.06.26 15:26:27 -
[52] - Quote
I have arrived at the Inner Circle Tribunal. Neither Odo Korachi nor any other CONCORD official or counsel has as of yet appeared to represent CONCORD's interests in the Order to Shoe Cause proceedings. |
Slutty Underwear
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
A Band Apart.
28
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Posted - 2015.06.26 16:22:47 -
[53] - Quote
I think it would be unwise and counter productive to not comply with Odo Korachi instructions. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
2402
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Posted - 2015.06.26 16:55:25 -
[54] - Quote
Yeah, this is going to happen because DED, CONCORD, etc have no need to respond to your 'summons'. You have no lawful power over them.
Of course, the mistake they are making is that they think they hold lawful power over the capsuleers and good luck with THAT, as they already burned that bridge by allowing capsuleers to be semi-sovreign entities in the first place. |
Kerena Alabel
The Desolate Order
Brave Collective
37
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:42:36 -
[55] - Quote
concord needs to pull their heads out of their asses |
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
747
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:56:28 -
[56] - Quote
I've petitioned DED director Vesren.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
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John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
402
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Posted - 2015.06.26 18:44:41 -
[57] - Quote
You may petition the DED and CONCORD. However their answer will be the same. Failing to comply to their demands is a breach of interstellar law. Odo Korachi's demands are well within their operational limits afforded to them by CONCORD.
Those who call themselves Caldari Loyalists should push for the lawful transfer of Hilen Tukoss's remains: "The advice of the Chief Executive Panel and the Caldari Business Tribunal is, after a discussion this morning, to encourage all those involved to comply with interstellar law, and bring this ridiculous situation to a close in line with the law."
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
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Arimeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.06.26 18:45:09 -
[58] - Quote
Rhavas wrote:The Jove are gone and it is time to revoke CONCORD's charter.
And invite chaos and destruction? The last time that CONCORD were taken out of play, the Empire was invaded en masse and the State went in to reclaim Home. Now imagine how it all would have ended if CONCORD didnt eventually intervene and everyone were left to their own devices? A ruin, bloodied and barren.
But let's entertain the idea that CONCORD is dismantled. What do you put in its place? Who would keep the peace? The nations were quickly at each others throats given opportunity. So that leaves us with... us, the capsuleers, who I believe would be busy eating each other while everything around us burned. |
Arimeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.06.26 19:08:22 -
[59] - Quote
While I, to a certain degree, understand IKAME's position and desire for more transparency from CONCORD, I have to back the statement given by CEP and CBT.
Refusing to comply with their demands would be ill-advised.
I hope this situations reaches a quick resolution. |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
980
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Posted - 2015.06.26 19:10:45 -
[60] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:You may petition the DED and CONCORD. However their answer will be the same. Failing to comply to their demands is a breach of interstellar law. Odo Korachi's demands are well within their operational limits afforded to them by CONCORD.
Even if the demands are within their mandate, the threats are not, and frankly, given CONCORD's recent continued actions, I don't think handing the samples over would be the right thing to do even if it is the legal thing to do. |
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