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About time to nerf Gallente!

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Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:50:00 - [31] sorry, but the idea of a caldari easymode raven-missle lover posting that another race is overpowered is just too funny to comtemplate typing a rational responce. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Jim McGregor Rod, your whole post basicly says that its OK for gallente to be overpowered now, because some other race was overpowered before. Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Originally by: Jim McGregor Why cant we have balance? No idea really. Because balance is the death of variety?
Rahvin Damodred The White Star Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:55:00 - [33] Originally by: *****a Mi Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. Thats a matter of market economy , supply and demand you know. Caldari characters sell for less becuase there are so bloody many of them and they need less skillpoints and training time to be usefull then Gallente. If Gallente really were that good as you claim to be , everyone would be playing one, and a lot more would be for sale and prices would drop.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:07:00 - [34] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:08:17 To the OP: Being deadly below a few km is Gallente's trait. Outside of a few km, other races are superior. It's a style thing, not a balance thing. The DPS, while greater is not sustainable. It is do or die. If you don't kill your target within the timeframe allowed by your cap, it's curtains for you. The tank is hardly uber either because it is drawing from the same cap pool as the guns. What are you asking for exactly? You want the Gallente to be nerfed so that they can be beaten up close? Then what will they be good for? I think you need to realise that every race has traits and styles of fighting. I don't expect to keep up with a minmatar ship or be able to shoot longer than it and I don't expect to have more range than autos or pulses or the same 0-whatever that torps give. Too bad for you if you can't see past the dps of blasters.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Yeah, its balanced if you have the opinion that close range pvp should be gallentes domain, and the other races should stick to sniping. Too bad most of the pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. But if you look at Eve and ignore those things, and just think every ship has its role, then I guess the game is balanced. Most of the ships are good at certain things. Gallente are good at killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jin Steele Fatalix Inc. Schism.	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:15:00 - [36] infrax, the fact that it uses cap is not really an arguement, because you can fit cap boosters, and you never need as much cap as amarr. and also, i thought that gallente were supposed to be the best at short and long range? at least, thats what it says here. Apparently gallente are railgun users and blaster users, and should be able to snipe at ranges on par with the rokh. I would say that that would be a pretty effective long range setup, but wouldnt that go against your definition of gallente? Fatalix IS RECRUITING!
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:15:00 - [37] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:17:14 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Yeah, its balanced if you have the opinion that close range pvp should be gallentes domain, and the other races should stick to sniping. Too bad most of the pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. But if you look at Eve and ignore those things, and just think every ship has its role, then I guess the game is balanced. Most of the ships are good at certain things. Gallente are good at killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. There is plenty of window between 3km and 20km for the other races to be competetive. To say that the Gallente are good at killing within 20km is a grand overstatement. The optimal range of large blasters is a few km at most. Other weapons have sweetspots under 20km where the gallente cannot compete too you know. Falloff puts you in the 50% effective DPS zone and long range ammo cuts down your DPS considerably, especially in Kali. Gallente have been given the shortest range, highest dps weapon in the game; I think this qualifies the "opinion that close range pvp should be gallente domain" as you put it. other races can compete against gallente. Take the minmatar for example, they have faster ships and longer range guns - so why do they let a gallente ship get up in their face and tear it off and then come whining on the forums that their race sucks and gallente should be nerfed? These people need to learn to fly their ships better to make use of the traits they have been given.
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:16:00 - [38] disruptors and webbers are still outside blasters range for things smaller then a Battleship
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:17:00 - [39] See sig Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
BOldMan Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. ...pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. ...killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. Oh, you know? you can train skill for interdictor and snipe blasterboats as much you can. Please read/use about of all items/ships in game don't wine like 'biggest damage is 1400, nerf it for balance sake'.
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 - [41] One thing you have to realise, is that anything more then a 1 vs 1 scenario, it becomes extremely difficult. Don't form your long range ships in a .. fasion but shoot from angular directions. \ / Even if the blaster ships get in range for one ship, they'de have to make a incredibly long trip to get to another target
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:23:00 - [42] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:24:52 Originally by: infraX There is plenty of window between 3km and 20km for the other races to be competetive. To say that the Gallente are good at killing within 20km is a grand overstatement. The optimal range of large blasters is a few km at most. For someone people call a pvp specialist, I didnt expect you to say that. You do know that blasterthrons with neutrons with null outrange and outdamage autocannons out to 25 km? Your 3km are such a understatement that I really dont know what to say...its like you only have void ammo and no drones? And its not only on the battleship level. As I said before, the optimal + falloff for medium t2 autocannons with barrage (gets +50% falloff) is 15k. You have almost no damage at all at that range, so you need to be closer. Once again, I ask, how easy do you think it is to try and stay at 13k from a gallente ship with a webber? Have you tried it? And I think the dps is like 100 dps at 13k away. It impossible to break a tank with it. It really is. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:23:00 - [43] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:23:31 Originally by: Jin Steele infrax, the fact that it uses cap is not really an arguement, because you can fit cap boosters, and you never need as much cap as amarr. and also, i thought that gallente were supposed to be the best at short and long range? at least, thats what it says here. Apparently gallente are railgun users and blaster users, and should be able to snipe at ranges on par with the rokh. I would say that that would be a pretty effective long range setup, but wouldnt that go against your definition of gallente? Sorry Jin Steele, but this reply oozes of lack of knowledge about blaster ships. A gallente ship cannot keep its guns and tank going for long enough to kill another ship at point blank in Kali even WITH boosters. Sure they help, but there comes a point where you 'cap out'. ie you have gone through all of your ships cap and might still be boosting with about 15% cap remaining but reps and guns start turning off and you find yourself in all kinds of trouble and end up getting killed. This is usually happening when the target is at about 50% armour with the Kali patch. Yes amarr are an even worse state than gallente now but that has been true for a while and they are well overdue some sort of buff. As for railguns, they were historically a caldari thing and a T1 Rokh outclasses a T2 megathron at sniping as pointed out by Murder One in other post in this forum. Also, when you fit a blaster ship, you can only fight at short range, hence the uberness. When you fit a torp raven, you can fight at 0km to whatever your skills allow (pretty far compared a few km with blasters) so if the DPS was too good on this omni-range ship, nobody would bother with blasters or any short range guns at all, hence the differential in DPS.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:24:00 - [44] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:30:33 Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Oh and just for the record, I fly all four races across a few characters and have pretty much everything trained up so I have experienced most situations from both sides of the fence. It really won't affect me personally what happens to gallente because if it gets that bad I can switch to another race quite easily. I agree that a neutron thron with null kinda pwns auto boats that try to sit at 13km or so but that should ease a bit in Kali. I just think that at 3km the gallente should be pretty scary to deal with. I don't care what happens past that range because that should be the realm of autos and lasers. My argument is that gallente isn't as good as it should be at 3km and more often than not is beaten by other race ships simply because of the cap thing.
rig0r Arcane Industries	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:25:00 - [45] Gallente is not overpowered. Yes, gallente blasterboats eat your soul at short range, but that's how it's supposed to be. You seem to forget that our ships suck for anything other than that. I could go to the forums and whine about how crappy my megathron is for NPCing, but I won't. Instead I will take a ship of a different race. Creator of eve-killboard.net. Get the killboard here.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:26:00 - [46] Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:29:00 - [47] Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. Old blog
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Matori Kar See sig I feel sry for your body, for having such a laggy brain
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim McGregor Actually its you gallente people that should learn how to understand minmatar. You think its minmatar players that dont know how to play, when in reality its game mechanics that is making their play style very difficult. Gallente is easy mode. QFT. I had one of my corpmates complaining that some people can actually tank his neutron gankathron after Kali, and that it was no longer an automatic /win button in all circumstances. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:36:10 Originally by: Rod Blaine Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore you are fine with things being unbalanced. I dont intend to flame you though. I mean, we are allowed to disagree... I just dont think I fail at discussing balance. At all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... Are blasters really that good with Lead or Iron? I really must try that
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:34:00 - [52] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Matori Kar See sig I feel sry for your body, for having such a laggy brain Eh.. wha.. err.. umm.. /goes for a lie down Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Mephesto Nizal disruptors and webbers are still outside blasters range for things smaller then a Battleship and don't I know it! mate in a rupture beats my thorax every single time by using his mwd to keep away and then web me when I enter 10km while he rips me apart with his projectile guns and I can't even hit him!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:37:00 - [54] Right. Well, let's put it this way. Relatively few of the good pvp'ers I know (that being a relative lot compared to average i guess), avoid the ships&modules forums like the plague these days, because there's relatively too many people like you, that have made one big mockery from any attempt at debating ships' strengths and weaknesses with overall balance in mind. I'm not syaing we have perfect balance, but I'm saying that whatever you are saying is definately not it. Got it ? Now please try and not 'misunderstand' my words against me this time ok ? I realy cba getting into this discussion any further. Old blog
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:38:00 - [55] Originally by: infraX Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... Are blasters really that good with Lead or Iron? I really must try that Already out of arguments I see. Didnt take long. Meh. Lets agree to disagree. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore fine with being unbalanced. I think it has to do with differing playstyles. Those whose playstyles revolve around gang and fleet combat can't understand how 1-v-1 combat can be relevant at all, whereas those of us whose playstyles revolve around solo and very small group combat understand it all too well. Rod, 1-v-1 balance may not be important to you, but that does not mean it is not important to others. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:39:00 - [57] I think ECM is still too powerful and Gallente take full advantage of that. While the chance of being jammed is now lower, fights will last a lot longer so you get plenty more chances to jam someone. CCP forgot to put time into the equasion.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:39:00 - [58] Originally by: Wrayeth I think it has to do with differing playstyles. Those whose playstyles revolve around gang and fleet combat can't understand how 1-v-1 combat can be relevant at all, whereas those of us whose playstyles revolve around solo and very small group combat understand it all too well. Yeah, it seems to be that way. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:44:00 - [59] Ofcourse I'm out of arguments. I've said everything that needs to be said. So unless you can prove me wrong and back up what you are saying with some hard evidence, I suggest you keep quiet. The fact is that gallente blaster ships are no longer much good below a few km and they sure as heck aren't any good if you increase the range. I'll not go on repeating myself and respond to trolling so unless you have any other valid points to raise, I suggest you leave it there.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:46:00 - [60] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/11/2006 12:49:29 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:36:10 Originally by: Rod Blaine Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore you are fine with things being unbalanced. I dont intend to flame you though. I mean, we are allowed to disagree... I just dont think I fail at discussing balance. At all. Oh, this one is good :p Let's put it this way Jim. I've read most of the main whining threads you've been active in in the s&m forums in the last months. And I've only very very rarely seen you make a decent argument including real situations where things are actually unbalanced. Well, you've won, Kali nerfs the gallente hard in those situations you've described, enjoy it. In practice, it changes nothing because every single example you use is in the end totally inconsequential in real gameplay. So, it does not particularly worry me at this time, because firstly I'll wait and see seeing how Kali changes so ****ed much. And secondly I indeed feel that 1v1 pvp is not the key area of Eve no. Let's pray that Tux never uses 1v1 sisi pvp as basis for his balancing As far as small gangs go, those are totally fine as is. As long as the people in them allow for the ships and setups of their gangmates a bit. And isn't that exactly what Eve is about ? Old blog

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