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About time to nerf Gallente!

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Bitcha Mi Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:47:00 - [1] This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. Compared to the other races Gallente got; DPS/Firepower Drones Tank All in one package. As i see it, Gallente really needs to be nerfed (balanced properly), its really not fear over the other races in the game. How often to you see rants on the forum about Boosting gallente? Very rare. How about the other races? Very frequently compared to gallente. They say if people complain, it's all good, but it's when they stop complaining you shold open your eyes, and do something. Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why.
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:48:00 - [2] Please, just stop posting. _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Bitcha Mi Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Fuujin Please, just stop posting. Let me guess, you are gallente.
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:49:00 - [4] gallente are popular because we have exotic dancers
J Frost Gallente The Tafflington Trust	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:55:00 - [5] Would u please show some R&D before giving out a result?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 08:56:00 - [6] And thats why you should train them. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:01:00 - [7] Originally by: ***a Mi Originally by:** Fuujin Please, just stop posting. Let me guess, you are gallente. Sorry i hate the french _______________ Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes or less, and related to Eve. -Kaemonn
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:01:00 - [8] Edited by: Riho on 27/11/2006 09:02:14 oh... sry caldari right... they are soo underpowerd those i can tank whit no cap and shoot guns whit no cap ??? (talking about passive tank here) allso... your weapons allways hit :P as i see it atm... caldari/gallente/minmatar(well, will see after KALI when alpha strike will be bit crappy) are quite balanced... amarr is left behind atm.. but iv seen some uber stuff on amarr side allso :D PS: if eny of u matari whiners state enything else... i say go LEARN to play whit ur ships ffs. edit... Drones are gallentes one of main weapons... we do most dmg whit em.... blaster ships... yeah do the most dmg but you have to be really close to do so. tank ? dunno... if u want to do alot of dmg.. you cant tank much if at all.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Riho Edited by: Riho on 27/11/2006 09:02:14 oh... sry caldari right... they are soo underpowerd those i can tank whit no cap and shoot guns whit no cap ??? (talking about passive tank here) allso... your weapons allways hit :P as i see it atm... caldari/gallente/minmatar(well, will see after KALI when alpha strike will be bit crappy) are quite balanced... amarr is left behind atm.. but iv seen some uber stuff on amarr side allso :D PS: if eny of u matari whiners state enything else... i say go LEARN to play whit ur ships ffs. edit... Drones are gallentes one of main weapons... we do most dmg whit em.... blaster ships... yeah do the most dmg but you have to be really close to do so. tank ? dunno... if u want to do alot of dmg.. you cant tank much if at all. Actually its you gallente people that should learn how to understand minmatar. You think its minmatar players that dont know how to play, when in reality its game mechanics that is making their play style very difficult. Gallente is easy mode. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Cyrus Graham Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:05:00 - [10] Edited by: Cyrus Graham on 27/11/2006 09:06:37 Screw Gallente(love the see through outfits, ladies), nerf Jove. ___________________________________ Go play checkers if you want a game where everything's fair and equal.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:09:00 - [11] Originally by: *****a Mi This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. Compared to the other races Gallente got; DPS/Firepower Drones Tank All in one package. As i see it, Gallente really needs to be nerfed (balanced properly), its really not fear over the other races in the game. How often to you see rants on the forum about Boosting gallente? Very rare. How about the other races? Very frequently compared to gallente. They say if people complain, it's all good, but it's when they stop complaining you shold open your eyes, and do something. Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. I like your reasoning. "If there isn't enough whining, something is wrong. People whine way more for boosts to the other races, hence gallente are overpowered." -----
Sol Halcon Minmatar The Exile Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:11:00 - [12] Edited by: Sol Halcon on 27/11/2006 09:16:06 Edited by: Sol Halcon on 27/11/2006 09:13:53 Originally by: ***a Mi This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. Compared to the other races Gallente got; DPS/Firepower Drones Tank All in one package. As i see it, Gallente really needs to be nerfed (balanced properly), its really not fear over the other races in the game. How often to you see rants on the forum about Boosting gallente? Very rare. How about the other races? Very frequently compared to gallente. They say if people complain, it's all good, but it's when they stop complaining you shold open your eyes, and do something. Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. Sorry, you are wrong. There is a way to beat them. I won't even begin to discuss how I did it the other night. I will say this. Study!!** Study every aspect and stat they have. Then study what you have even more. Find your strengths and weaknesses. Learn how to exploit your own strength against their weakness (they have them), and protect your weak spots. As MMO's go this is a very well ballanced one, and I've seen my share. Besides, if the Gallente were so GAWD AWFUL UBER 1337, then that is about all you would see out there. Cheers! ~Sol
Redpants Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:22:00 - [13] Drones should be lumped into DPS, or the tank. Because their main functions are to contribute to one of those categories. And we can't have high DPS and a tank worth talking about at the same time. Maybe one of the reasons you don't see rants about Gallente is because CCP has the Gallente recipie just right. Meaning us Gallente are satisfied and our opponents are satisfied. Now if you're going to go by some perception of forum content for this argument then notice how other races, like Amarr are griped about by all the other races equally, either by those flying it or fighting it because something just doesn't sit well with them. But that's MY perception of forum discussion only. Any comparison you see to Gallente isn't because we're so beefed up it's because we're well balanced IMO. If anybody knows what and whome is out of balance it's the Algebraic/Calculus formula wizards at CCP. ________________________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Dred'Pirate Jesus Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Cyrus Graham nerf Jove. But then the Devs would be sad.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat..
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:46:00 - [15] christ your obviously a new player. it wasnt so long ago that amarr ships ruled and gallente sucked. caldari have always been generally good and matar "hard mode". its taken a long time and lots of small changes to make gallente decent. changes have also come to pass to make amarr not so good. i wouldnt say gallente are overpowered id say they were balanced with caldari, both good at what they do. with amarr and minmater, well maybe amarr need a small boost, i dont know i dont fly them, maybe minmatar need a boost, i fly them and almost like them being underpowered as it makes a kill flying minmatar so much better. just saying gallente are overpowered says you havent played this game long and tbh you dont know what your talking about.
Bitcha Mi Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 09:54:00 - [16] Edited by: ***a Mi on 27/11/2006 09:56:27 Originally by: slothe christ your obviously a new player. it wasnt so long ago that amarr ships ruled and gallente sucked. caldari have always been generally good and matar "hard mode". its taken a long time and lots of small changes to make gallente decent. changes have also come to pass to make amarr not so good. i wouldnt say gallente are overpowered id say they were balanced with caldari, both good at what they do. with amarr and minmater, well maybe amarr need a small boost, i dont know i dont fly them, maybe minmatar need a boost, i fly them and almost like them being underpowered as it makes a kill flying minmatar so much better. just saying gallente are overpowered says you havent played this game long and tbh you dont know what your talking about. FYI, I have been playing this Game for 2 Years. And I've flown all races. And the fact that you think it takes a vet to see that gallente needs changeing (or boosting the other races for that mather) just shows how ignorant you are.
Rock Lobster	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:01:00 - [17] Yeah, because Calderi have it really difficult. Warp in, unleash a load of missles, collect loot, warp out. Gallente, you warp in, launch your 5 drones, MWD to your optimal range while tanking the heavy missiles beating off you, start firing rails/blasters, try and get bugged drones to actually fire on the target you want, watch the two that didn't respond get shot to hell, watch your shield get raped, struggle because your cap is empty from the MWD, finally get the target dead, collect loot, collect drones, warp out. Then there's the extra skills required to actually get a decent PvP Gallente char. Not only do you have to train the gunnery and weapon specific skills, then there's the drone skills you need. Trust me, you need a lot of level 5 skills in Drone to make drones remotely useful. I've ganged with Calderi players that have been in game less than 4 weeks and they're out in 0.5 ratting to reasonable effect. That'd be near impossible with a Gallente character. The OP should try playing Gallente in a PvP role, and then come report back.
Bitcha Mi Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:07:00 - [18] Edited by: ***a Mi on 27/11/2006 10:08:12 Originally by: Rock Lobster The OP should try playing Gallente in a PvP role, and then come report back. I do use Gallente in PvP, and using the MWD is not a problem. Oh, and i have no problems with my drones eighter.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:11:00 - [19] Originally by: Rock Lobster Yeah, because Calderi have it really difficult. Warp in, unleash a load of missles, collect loot, warp out. Gallente, you warp in, launch your 5 drones, MWD to your optimal range while tanking the heavy missiles beating off you, start firing rails/blasters, try and get bugged drones to actually fire on the target you want, watch the two that didn't respond get shot to hell, watch your shield get raped, struggle because your cap is empty from the MWD, finally get the target dead, collect loot, collect drones, warp out. Then there's the extra skills required to actually get a decent PvP Gallente char. Not only do you have to train the gunnery and weapon specific skills, then there's the drone skills you need. Trust me, you need a lot of level 5 skills in Drone to make drones remotely useful. I've ganged with Calderi players that have been in game less than 4 weeks and they're out in 0.5 ratting to reasonable effect. That'd be near impossible with a Gallente character. The OP should try playing Gallente in a PvP role, and then come report back. Minmatar, you warp in, launch drones, open fire then start praying. Auto cannons suck, clip sizes suck, phoon still sucks, need alpha back, etc etc... -=====-
Mountain Mist	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:13:00 - [20] Originally by: ****a Mi Edited by: ****a Mi on 27/11/2006 09:56:27 And the fact that you think it takes a vet to see that gallente needs changeing (or boosting the other races for that mather) just shows how ignorant you are. This gives a lot away already. It does take someone experienced with the game over a larger period of time to identify imbalances in gameplay. Gameplay in MMO's is ideally "tuned", very rarely do you want to absolutely obliterate something(with huge nerfs). Changes over time need to be compared with earlier experiences and further testing to give an adequate understanding of the consequences of changes made. Constant barrages of massive nerfs and boosts really nerf gameplay for everyone.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:17:00 - [21] Mountain Mist, it depends on how much you play the game and how quick you pick up on things. Even newbies can sometimes have a really good grasp on how things work. People think its easy to "stay out of range" with autocannons when you have to be at 13k to do damage, and thats actually at the end of your falloff range so you do crap damage too. How hard is it for a gallente ship to travel 3k and web you? Its not skill that makes gallente pwn, its game mechanics. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Berious The Greater Goon The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:26:00 - [22] All damage types, Unaffected by tracking or range, Predictable damage, Nerf missiles tbh
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Lucian Corvinus on 27/11/2006 10:38:28 Originally by: Berious All damage types, Unaffected by tracking or range, Predictable damage, Nerf missiles tbh Get a clue, and stay on topic 3 of the races, minmatar, caldari and gallente are pretty balanced atm, eventhough gallente are on the top. That just leaves amarr who kind of suck atm.
The Hardman Amarr Sausage Commandos	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:42:00 - [24] It does seem to me that as far as empire ships/setups it goes like this: caldari >> amarr gallente >> minmatar I am not sure how amarr compare to minmatar or how caldari compare to gallente. But it does seem as their are two strong empires, and two weak empires. And the weak empires are the more interesting ones from RP perspective.
BOldMan Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:43:00 - [25] Originally by: *****a Mi This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. ... How often to you see rants on the forum about Boosting gallente? Very rare. How about the other races? Very frequently compared to gallente. They say if people complain, it's all good, but it's when they stop complaining you shold open your eyes, and do something. Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. From races descriptions I donÆt see galente's ships and bonus to be superior. Just characters playing galente are generally clever. As op post demonstrate.
4rc4ng3L Gallente C R Y O	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:45:00 - [26] Originally by: ***a Mi This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. Compared to the other races Gallente got; DPS/Firepower Drones Tank All in one package. As i see it, Gallente really needs to be nerfed (balanced properly), its really not fear over the other races in the game. How often to you see rants on the forum about Boosting gallente? Very rare. How about the other races? Very frequently compared to gallente. They say if people complain, it's all good, but it's when they stop complaining you shold open your eyes, and do something. Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. I dont like you.... Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...**
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.11.27 10:52:00 - [27] Edited by: Mithrantir Ob''lontra on 27/11/2006 10:53:53 Originally by: Jim McGregor Mountain Mist, it depends on how much you play the game and how quick you pick up on things. Even newbies can sometimes have a really good grasp on how things work. People think its easy to "stay out of range" with autocannons when you have to be at 13k to do damage, and thats actually at the end of your falloff range so you do crap damage too. How hard is it for a gallente ship to travel 3k and web you? Its not skill that makes gallente pwn, its game mechanics. Excuse but with blasters too until BC level to do some good damage is way below 10 Km with tech 1 guns. I think it's about the same with ACs, if i am not mistaken. Anyway the point, is that each race has the strength and the weaknesses it needs to be balanced. Yes Amarr definitively have it the hardest and i think something needs to be done to increase their strengths. (all though truth is that the HP boost is a good thing for them, not now but in the end). Minmatar i hear various things so i am not saying anything (since i have seen and very good Minmatar setups and perfomances). But to hear from a Caldari player that they have it harder than us. Meh, i just find it ironic. I guess that the 50% of the player base is playing Caldari for being harder than the rest. Quite the contrary i would say. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
DaChMon Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:25:00 - [28] look mum, im in a kindergarden thread !
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:33:00 - [29] You people have shockingly short memories. I recall that not even half a year ago there were threads that put the recent "Amarr whining central" one to shame, and they were about the Gallente race and it's issues. During 2003, the Gallente would fit heavy and megabeams to their megathrons in order to compete. Of course, the cap consumption meant they still sucked, but at least not as much as they would using hybrids. In 2004 and 2005, some Gallente resorted to using the megapulse on theri megathorns and dominixes, because well, it was so overpowered that anything else made little sense. In 2006, finally, blasters got usefull (not overpowered, but then again I don't do 1v1 and regard the whole concept of 1v1 comparison as idiotic rambling), and large rails were being used as they should. Only during the last half year anything can be said for the Amarr race being relatively weak, because of the very recent EANM buff. That and some fitting issues with beams on small ships. The minmatar, apart from being the whiniest race in existence in this starcluster (one would think they'd get hardened up by their past enslavement, but no), have pretty much whined all the way down from release. Even when at start 1400's where teh **zle along with beams for example. Minmatar ships are generally still extremely popular, especially in the smaller classes, and have been since like, well, always. Even when the race makes up for the smallest population group in Eve. And finally, our Caldari. They've whined alot in response to being by far the most whined-at race in Eve, and still remain a relatively easy road to success. In pvp however, options remains limited, if good, due to the delayed damage problem and issues with speed and agility and such. All in all, not one race i would seriously consider overpowered atm. Sure, just like with Raven, Tempest and Apoc or Geddon in the past you could say the the Megathron has a good chance of wining a 1v1 clean, no tricksy stuff, BS fight not. Big ***** deal, it's taken three years to get there, can it play along with the rest for a minute too please ? For overall balance this is of no consequence at all. But then again, the inconsequential sisi monkey team seems to outshout most of anyone else on Ships and modules these days, sadly enough. Maybe they should try playing the actual game instead of worrying about the FFA comparison tests for ship durability to retardedness. /rant over Old blog
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:38:00 - [30] Rod, your whole post basicly says that its OK for gallente to be overpowered now, because some other race was overpowered before. Why cant we have balance? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:50:00 - [31] sorry, but the idea of a caldari easymode raven-missle lover posting that another race is overpowered is just too funny to comtemplate typing a rational responce. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.- -nerf Missles-
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Jim McGregor Rod, your whole post basicly says that its OK for gallente to be overpowered now, because some other race was overpowered before. Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Originally by: Jim McGregor Why cant we have balance? No idea really. Because balance is the death of variety?
Rahvin Damodred The White Star Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.27 11:55:00 - [33] Originally by: *****a Mi Gallente chars even sells for more then the other races on the forum...i wonder why. Thats a matter of market economy , supply and demand you know. Caldari characters sell for less becuase there are so bloody many of them and they need less skillpoints and training time to be usefull then Gallente. If Gallente really were that good as you claim to be , everyone would be playing one, and a lot more would be for sale and prices would drop.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:07:00 - [34] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:08:17 To the OP: Being deadly below a few km is Gallente's trait. Outside of a few km, other races are superior. It's a style thing, not a balance thing. The DPS, while greater is not sustainable. It is do or die. If you don't kill your target within the timeframe allowed by your cap, it's curtains for you. The tank is hardly uber either because it is drawing from the same cap pool as the guns. What are you asking for exactly? You want the Gallente to be nerfed so that they can be beaten up close? Then what will they be good for? I think you need to realise that every race has traits and styles of fighting. I don't expect to keep up with a minmatar ship or be able to shoot longer than it and I don't expect to have more range than autos or pulses or the same 0-whatever that torps give. Too bad for you if you can't see past the dps of blasters.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Yeah, its balanced if you have the opinion that close range pvp should be gallentes domain, and the other races should stick to sniping. Too bad most of the pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. But if you look at Eve and ignore those things, and just think every ship has its role, then I guess the game is balanced. Most of the ships are good at certain things. Gallente are good at killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jin Steele Fatalix Inc. Schism.	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:15:00 - [36] infrax, the fact that it uses cap is not really an arguement, because you can fit cap boosters, and you never need as much cap as amarr. and also, i thought that gallente were supposed to be the best at short and long range? at least, thats what it says here. Apparently gallente are railgun users and blaster users, and should be able to snipe at ranges on par with the rokh. I would say that that would be a pretty effective long range setup, but wouldnt that go against your definition of gallente? Fatalix IS RECRUITING!
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:15:00 - [37] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:17:14 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. Yeah, its balanced if you have the opinion that close range pvp should be gallentes domain, and the other races should stick to sniping. Too bad most of the pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. But if you look at Eve and ignore those things, and just think every ship has its role, then I guess the game is balanced. Most of the ships are good at certain things. Gallente are good at killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. There is plenty of window between 3km and 20km for the other races to be competetive. To say that the Gallente are good at killing within 20km is a grand overstatement. The optimal range of large blasters is a few km at most. Other weapons have sweetspots under 20km where the gallente cannot compete too you know. Falloff puts you in the 50% effective DPS zone and long range ammo cuts down your DPS considerably, especially in Kali. Gallente have been given the shortest range, highest dps weapon in the game; I think this qualifies the "opinion that close range pvp should be gallente domain" as you put it. other races can compete against gallente. Take the minmatar for example, they have faster ships and longer range guns - so why do they let a gallente ship get up in their face and tear it off and then come whining on the forums that their race sucks and gallente should be nerfed? These people need to learn to fly their ships better to make use of the traits they have been given.
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:16:00 - [38] disruptors and webbers are still outside blasters range for things smaller then a Battleship
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:17:00 - [39] See sig Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
BOldMan Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Sendraks Rod's post reads to me that the Gallente are finally balanced against the other races, which they are, rather than being overpowered. ...pvp people do outside fleets are very close range. Too bad warp disruptors and webbers also make sure you have to be close. ...killing within 20k, which is what I think most players want his race to be. Oh, you know? you can train skill for interdictor and snipe blasterboats as much you can. Please read/use about of all items/ships in game don't wine like 'biggest damage is 1400, nerf it for balance sake'.
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 - [41] One thing you have to realise, is that anything more then a 1 vs 1 scenario, it becomes extremely difficult. Don't form your long range ships in a .. fasion but shoot from angular directions. \ / Even if the blaster ships get in range for one ship, they'de have to make a incredibly long trip to get to another target
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:23:00 - [42] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:24:52 Originally by: infraX There is plenty of window between 3km and 20km for the other races to be competetive. To say that the Gallente are good at killing within 20km is a grand overstatement. The optimal range of large blasters is a few km at most. For someone people call a pvp specialist, I didnt expect you to say that. You do know that blasterthrons with neutrons with null outrange and outdamage autocannons out to 25 km? Your 3km are such a understatement that I really dont know what to say...its like you only have void ammo and no drones? And its not only on the battleship level. As I said before, the optimal + falloff for medium t2 autocannons with barrage (gets +50% falloff) is 15k. You have almost no damage at all at that range, so you need to be closer. Once again, I ask, how easy do you think it is to try and stay at 13k from a gallente ship with a webber? Have you tried it? And I think the dps is like 100 dps at 13k away. It impossible to break a tank with it. It really is. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:23:00 - [43] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:23:31 Originally by: Jin Steele infrax, the fact that it uses cap is not really an arguement, because you can fit cap boosters, and you never need as much cap as amarr. and also, i thought that gallente were supposed to be the best at short and long range? at least, thats what it says here. Apparently gallente are railgun users and blaster users, and should be able to snipe at ranges on par with the rokh. I would say that that would be a pretty effective long range setup, but wouldnt that go against your definition of gallente? Sorry Jin Steele, but this reply oozes of lack of knowledge about blaster ships. A gallente ship cannot keep its guns and tank going for long enough to kill another ship at point blank in Kali even WITH boosters. Sure they help, but there comes a point where you 'cap out'. ie you have gone through all of your ships cap and might still be boosting with about 15% cap remaining but reps and guns start turning off and you find yourself in all kinds of trouble and end up getting killed. This is usually happening when the target is at about 50% armour with the Kali patch. Yes amarr are an even worse state than gallente now but that has been true for a while and they are well overdue some sort of buff. As for railguns, they were historically a caldari thing and a T1 Rokh outclasses a T2 megathron at sniping as pointed out by Murder One in other post in this forum. Also, when you fit a blaster ship, you can only fight at short range, hence the uberness. When you fit a torp raven, you can fight at 0km to whatever your skills allow (pretty far compared a few km with blasters) so if the DPS was too good on this omni-range ship, nobody would bother with blasters or any short range guns at all, hence the differential in DPS.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:24:00 - [44] Edited by: infraX on 27/11/2006 12:30:33 Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Oh and just for the record, I fly all four races across a few characters and have pretty much everything trained up so I have experienced most situations from both sides of the fence. It really won't affect me personally what happens to gallente because if it gets that bad I can switch to another race quite easily. I agree that a neutron thron with null kinda pwns auto boats that try to sit at 13km or so but that should ease a bit in Kali. I just think that at 3km the gallente should be pretty scary to deal with. I don't care what happens past that range because that should be the realm of autos and lasers. My argument is that gallente isn't as good as it should be at 3km and more often than not is beaten by other race ships simply because of the cap thing.
rig0r Arcane Industries	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:25:00 - [45] Gallente is not overpowered. Yes, gallente blasterboats eat your soul at short range, but that's how it's supposed to be. You seem to forget that our ships suck for anything other than that. I could go to the forums and whine about how crappy my megathron is for NPCing, but I won't. Instead I will take a ship of a different race. Creator of eve-killboard.net. Get the killboard here.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:26:00 - [46] Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:29:00 - [47] Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. Old blog
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Matori Kar See sig I feel sry for your body, for having such a laggy brain
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Jim McGregor Actually its you gallente people that should learn how to understand minmatar. You think its minmatar players that dont know how to play, when in reality its game mechanics that is making their play style very difficult. Gallente is easy mode. QFT. I had one of my corpmates complaining that some people can actually tank his neutron gankathron after Kali, and that it was no longer an automatic /win button in all circumstances. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:36:10 Originally by: Rod Blaine Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore you are fine with things being unbalanced. I dont intend to flame you though. I mean, we are allowed to disagree... I just dont think I fail at discussing balance. At all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... Are blasters really that good with Lead or Iron? I really must try that
Matori Kar	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:34:00 - [52] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Matori Kar See sig I feel sry for your body, for having such a laggy brain Eh.. wha.. err.. umm.. /goes for a lie down Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!!
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Mephesto Nizal disruptors and webbers are still outside blasters range for things smaller then a Battleship and don't I know it! mate in a rupture beats my thorax every single time by using his mwd to keep away and then web me when I enter 10km while he rips me apart with his projectile guns and I can't even hit him!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:37:00 - [54] Right. Well, let's put it this way. Relatively few of the good pvp'ers I know (that being a relative lot compared to average i guess), avoid the ships&modules forums like the plague these days, because there's relatively too many people like you, that have made one big mockery from any attempt at debating ships' strengths and weaknesses with overall balance in mind. I'm not syaing we have perfect balance, but I'm saying that whatever you are saying is definately not it. Got it ? Now please try and not 'misunderstand' my words against me this time ok ? I realy cba getting into this discussion any further. Old blog
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:38:00 - [55] Originally by: infraX Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: infraX Jim, this is the Kali forum. Check the T2 ammo's out now. Right, because discussing gallente cant be done with t2 ammo taken into account, despite the fact that 100% of pvp'ers use it... Are blasters really that good with Lead or Iron? I really must try that Already out of arguments I see. Didnt take long. Meh. Lets agree to disagree. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim McGregor I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore fine with being unbalanced. I think it has to do with differing playstyles. Those whose playstyles revolve around gang and fleet combat can't understand how 1-v-1 combat can be relevant at all, whereas those of us whose playstyles revolve around solo and very small group combat understand it all too well. Rod, 1-v-1 balance may not be important to you, but that does not mean it is not important to others. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:39:00 - [57] I think ECM is still too powerful and Gallente take full advantage of that. While the chance of being jammed is now lower, fights will last a lot longer so you get plenty more chances to jam someone. CCP forgot to put time into the equasion.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:39:00 - [58] Originally by: Wrayeth I think it has to do with differing playstyles. Those whose playstyles revolve around gang and fleet combat can't understand how 1-v-1 combat can be relevant at all, whereas those of us whose playstyles revolve around solo and very small group combat understand it all too well. Yeah, it seems to be that way. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:44:00 - [59] Ofcourse I'm out of arguments. I've said everything that needs to be said. So unless you can prove me wrong and back up what you are saying with some hard evidence, I suggest you keep quiet. The fact is that gallente blaster ships are no longer much good below a few km and they sure as heck aren't any good if you increase the range. I'll not go on repeating myself and respond to trolling so unless you have any other valid points to raise, I suggest you leave it there.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:46:00 - [60] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 27/11/2006 12:49:29 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:36:10 Originally by: Rod Blaine Jim, my post wasnt about how gallente are overpowered and that being right or something, it's about how people like you fail at discussing balance. I think you are the one failing. At least I use graphs and real situations to talk about the things I feel arent balanced. I dont see you doing the same, because you dont feel that 1 vs 1 is very important and therefore you are fine with things being unbalanced. I dont intend to flame you though. I mean, we are allowed to disagree... I just dont think I fail at discussing balance. At all. Oh, this one is good :p Let's put it this way Jim. I've read most of the main whining threads you've been active in in the s&m forums in the last months. And I've only very very rarely seen you make a decent argument including real situations where things are actually unbalanced. Well, you've won, Kali nerfs the gallente hard in those situations you've described, enjoy it. In practice, it changes nothing because every single example you use is in the end totally inconsequential in real gameplay. So, it does not particularly worry me at this time, because firstly I'll wait and see seeing how Kali changes so ****ed much. And secondly I indeed feel that 1v1 pvp is not the key area of Eve no. Let's pray that Tux never uses 1v1 sisi pvp as basis for his balancing As far as small gangs go, those are totally fine as is. As long as the people in them allow for the ships and setups of their gangmates a bit. And isn't that exactly what Eve is about ? Old blog
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:46:00 - [61] Originally by: infraX Ofcourse I'm out of arguments. I've said everything that needs to be said. So unless you can prove me wrong and back up what you are saying with some hard evidence, I suggest you keep quiet. The fact is that gallente blaster ships are no longer much good below a few km and they sure as heck aren't any good if you increase the range. I'll not go on repeating myself and respond to trolling so unless you have any other valid points to raise, I suggest you leave it there. I really dont get how you could miss my arguments when they are right there in the earlier post. Its the one where you say gallente ships have a range of 3km. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:51:00 - [62] Edited by: Jin Entres on 27/11/2006 12:52:01 Revelations is a nerf to blasters. With the introduction of rigs, increased hp and cap and T2 ammo nerf, tanks in general have improved significantly. This greatly undermines the blaster strategyÖ, which is based on overwhelming the opponent's tank before there is need for a good tank of your own. Amongst strong tanks that can withstand almost anything thrown at them for long enough, the deciding factor is capacitor. Therefore the two races that need no cap to sustain their weapons, Caldari and Minmatar, are best off. They also happen to have the most utility high slots, which fuel the nosferatu strategy. Yes Gallente do have good ships - Nosdomi will still be good, as will other ships and setups that are built to exploit the dominance of capacitor, but this is not due to inherent Gallentean superiority, but that of nos. ---
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:53:00 - [63] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:53:32 Originally by: Rod Blaine I've read most of the main whining threads you've been active in in the s&m forums in the last months. And I've only very very rarely seen you make a decent argument including real situations where things are actually unbalanced. Well, you dont even take part in them. And you dont use graphs, numbers, situations or ANYTHING to show why you are disagreeing. You just do. Quote: Well, you've won, Kali nerfs the gallente hard in those situations you've described, enjoy it. In practice, it changes nothing because every single example you use is in the end totally inconsequential in real gameplay. So, it does not particularly worry me at this time, because firstly I'll wait and see seeing how Kali changes so ****ed much. And secondly I indeed feelt hat 1v1 pvp is not the key area of Eve no, god be praised. Really, what situations is that? The only thread I remember discussing the gallente are the null range one, where you have blasterthron with extreme damage and range at 25 km compared to Tempests. After a while, I found out that Tempest have a decent chance if it fits a tracking disruptor. Not many minnie players agreed with me, but it seemed to me that it would work. If ccp nerfs the gallente because of me (sounds strange, but ok), its because they agree some things about them are unbalanced, and ive made a good argument for it. Why dont you try to do the same instead of avoiding the threads like the plague? And I really dont agree that gallente will have problems in Kali... what are you thinking of here? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ione Hunt Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:54:00 - [64] Originally by: *****a Mi This race is way to superiour to all the other races of EvE. Compared to the other races Gallente got; DPS/Firepower Drones Tank All in one package. Please nerf Caldari!!! Compared to the other races Caldari got: Firepower Missiles (omghax!!!) Tank ...want me to go on for the other races? Drones get shafted with Kali because they won't get a HP boost as it seems. Firepower? True, if I use a covops to get in range fast. Otherwise a ship with more range will do more damage over time than me simply because it takes me a while to get in gunrange. Tank? Well, let's wait what Kali brings us...cap-independent tanks ftw!! ________________________________________________
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: infraX Ofcourse I'm out of arguments. I've said everything that needs to be said. So unless you can prove me wrong and back up what you are saying with some hard evidence, I suggest you keep quiet. The fact is that gallente blaster ships are no longer much good below a few km and they sure as heck aren't any good if you increase the range. I'll not go on repeating myself and respond to trolling so unless you have any other valid points to raise, I suggest you leave it there. I really dont get how you could miss my arguments when they are right there in the earlier post. Its the one where you say gallente ships have a range of 3km. You misunderstand me. What I am saying is that in Kali, even sat at optimal of 3km, the blaster ship can't do enough damage to the other ship before it starts to cap out.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 13:00:56 Originally by: infraX You misunderstand me. What I am saying is that in Kali, even sat at optimal of 3km, the blaster ship can't do enough damage to the other ship before it starts to cap out. You do use a cap injector, right? Because otherwise, I can understand that argument. With a cap injector however, there is no way a minmatar ship can tank your damage. Maybe if you are shooting at one of those Drake's at the test server that have a full tank with no tackling gear, you will run out of charges. I really dont know. They are a real pain to take down solo. And with that post, I guess we are back at the "Yes, but gallente should be masters of close combat" argument, arent we... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:26:00 - [67] I left caldari to go Gallente for pvp and never looked back, wish I had done it sooner
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.27 13:45:00 - [68] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 13:00:56 Originally by: infraX You misunderstand me. What I am saying is that in Kali, even sat at optimal of 3km, the blaster ship can't do enough damage to the other ship before it starts to cap out. You do use a cap injector, right? Because otherwise, I can understand that argument. With a cap injector however, there is no way a minmatar ship can tank your damage. Maybe if you are shooting at one of those Drake's at the test server that have a full tank with no tackling gear, you will run out of charges. I really dont know. They are a real pain to take down solo. And with that post, I guess we are back at the "Yes, but gallente should be masters of close combat" argument, arent we... Yes we are and ofcourse I use a cap injector but the point is it won't keep everything running long enough to overpower the enemy's tank before all your cap is gone and your modules start shutting down. Even if you had 100 charges in your hold this would still happen and cause you to die. Gallente ships do not get as much of a bonus from booster charges as minmatar ships because as soon as the booster 800 fires in, you've got 7 or 8 guns taking cap every few seconds aswell as 2 large reps running. Compare that to a minmatar ship that only has the reps using the charge. Do you see the problem now? When it gets down to the point that both ships are at 15% cap and are struggling to keep charges firing in, the gallente pilot is unable to shoot AND unable to tank, all the while the autocannons are still blazing away. The fights are too long, the tanks/buffer are too tough and the cap is too insifficient for blasters to be able to break that critical mass turning point where they should win the fight at 3km.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.27 14:16:00 - [69] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, you dont even take part in them. And you dont use graphs, numbers, situations or ANYTHING to show why you are disagreeing. You just do. Graphs and numbers are just abstracted information. They don't relate to the 'real' game in a meaningful way. I would go as far as to say they are misleading. For one, 1 v 1 fights in EVE are a tiny proportion of the combat that exists. In the rare circumstances where a 1 v 1 occurs, it is usually unbalanced, i.e. a falcon creeps up on a ratting assault frig or some other situation where the agressor has chosen his fight carefully. Usually what seem like a 1 v 1 is a prelude to someone else rushing into the system to tip the odds. Apart from Amarr, there are hardly any ships in the game that will be set for pvp with just damage and tank taken into consideration (and amarr pilots havent done this out of choice either). From one party or another in most combat there will be some EW tipping the balance. Also alot of the graphs I see dont seem to take into account damage types and resistances. ie Abaddon on one side of the coin is highest dps of new battleships according to a graph i saw, somehow I doubt that will be the case in most combat situations due to the damage types it is forced to have. Minmitar complain about their raw dps, when they are the only gunnery race that can do explosive damage, and the only gunnery race that can fire their weapons with an empty capacitor. Yes of course it comes down to each race of ships having a broad role, and if you think taking a Tempest toe to toe at close range with a Thron should be an equal fight on DPS terms, then what you are essentially asking for is all races to be made the same. I think that would make the game most boring, and if we are talking about making all races the same, then it is the Caldari we need to start on first. But how about you think laterally? and try and take on the Thron in a different way? Why not use a nanophoon, with lots of NOS, some cruise missiles and some heavy drones? Watch that mega miss you and keep missing, while you slowly wear him down and beat him. Sure a Nanophoon cant tank or do as much damage as a Thron, but it can still win a 1 on 1. Hell a Nanophoon cant out-tank or outdamage a Brutix probably, but still it can win. See what I'm getting at. Minmitar has a broad racial role, which is speed. Speed is not only useful for dictating range, it is useful for making your opponent miss. Nerf minmitar, my Thron cant hit them 0_o. In Kali, Capacitor is going to become a bigger issue than ever before. Guess which races are still firing their weapons when the cap runs out? You got it. Cap boosters you say? well a cap booster means less EW fit, and most of your cargo taken up by charges you need just to finish a fight with your guns firing. And as for the original poster, a Caldari talking about Gallente having the best tank. One wonders if the guy has actually taken the time to compare the efficacy of a shield tank when compared to an armor tank, including certain little things like fitting costs, and damage repaired/sec. Nerf Caldari, their weapons always hit and they can tank better 0_o There is a reason to nerf any race if you want to look hard enough. Probably even Amarr (or there used to be). Just think about how dull this game would become if we were all the same. There is always a way to win with the 100s of modules you have at your disposal, even in a highly unrealistic 1v1 scenario. Simply comparing DPS vs Tank is lacking imagination, and it is why people lose.
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.11.27 16:38:00 - [70] Yeh but no but yea but no but ..... surely no-one uses explosive ammo? And surely those blasters take less cap than a booster can supply? you want to have 2 x reps going at the same time as your blasters? afraid you cant do that, not balanced OP is playing a different game in a parallel universe, just because your raven does not do instant damage at 200km with the other big boys you call them overpowered .. when Kali hits a mega will be in structure while the raven is getting into armour ..BECAUSE THE MEGA RAN OUT OF CAP

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