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Ao Kishuba
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
33
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Posted - 2015.06.30 22:36:36 -
[1] - Quote
I posted this to /r/eve as a "rough draft", and after a little discussion I'm posting it here.
If you leave a player corporation, you're put in an NPC corp, which you cannot leave. If you have a character which, for some reason, you don't want associated with any group, you have to make your own one-man corporation.
Why can't we have characters who aren't affiliated with any corporation at all?
Personally, I would like to do this for RP reasons, but if there is a practical purpose for keeping the current system, or for not changing, I would like to hear it.
If the idea is that people will be more likely to join player-owned corporations, I would like to see some evidence to back up that notion.
A lot of people brought up the same points in the Reddit thread, so I will address them here:
Argument: "Forcing players to make their own one-man corp is a "tax" on dodging taxes"
Rebuttal: Corporation Management is a 1x skill, and the skillbook costs 20,000 ISK. Compare this with the 13% tax from an NPC corp over the lifetime of a character with any measurable taxable income. This is not a valid reason to keep the current system.
Argument: NPC Corporations provide shelter from wardecs; the 13% tax is what you pay for protection.
Rebuttal: Again, this is easily dodged by creating a 1-man corp, which as mentioned above, costs nothing. This is not a valid reason to keep the current system because it is already basically nonexistent for single players, who do not benefit from being in a group.
One possible legitimate reason which was brought up on Reddit was that there could potentially be technical issues (greater load on the server, and/or errors) unless a solution is implemented which would require testing and bugfixes before being released. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
804
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Posted - 2015.06.30 22:42:40 -
[2] - Quote
Not defaulting into an NPC corp would certainly clean up corp histories a bit. |
T8497
Torguemada
33
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Posted - 2015.06.30 23:01:16 -
[3] - Quote
I'd bet it's database related. |
Another Posting Alt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2015.06.30 23:04:47 -
[4] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Not defaulting into an NPC corp would certainly clean up corp histories a bit.
Nah, would probably just replace the NPC corp entry with "Not affiliated" or "Unemployed". |
DaReaper
Net 7
2254
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Posted - 2015.06.30 23:25:51 -
[5] - Quote
Because CCP says so.
/thread.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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stoicfaux
6034
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Posted - 2015.07.01 00:18:14 -
[6] - Quote
Corporate Lawyers. They realized the full potential of the EVE Gate and emigrated in such numbers that even after the EVE Gate collapsed they survived a 10,000+ year dark age to make sure everyone, from slave to religious zealot to tomato throwing socialist Frenchman, was required to be in a corporation.
Cockroaches are such pussies.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Hal Morsh
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
321
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Posted - 2015.07.01 01:07:33 -
[7] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:
Cockroaches are such pussies.
I'm not sure I get what this means?
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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stoicfaux
6034
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Posted - 2015.07.01 01:24:08 -
[8] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Cockroaches are such pussies.
I'm not sure I get what this means?
It means you were born after the Cold War.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1237
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Posted - 2015.07.01 01:28:33 -
[9] - Quote
Don't really know, and I don't really care either.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
419
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Posted - 2015.07.01 08:05:50 -
[10] - Quote
The world is one where corporations are the ultimate power - a classic cyberpunk distopia.
Nations no longer matter, governments are virtually neutered, Tiberius Heth would be nothing without the backing of the megacorps.
The benefits of corporations within the world (ignoring what you actually see in game) are just too great to "go it alone". Even the most obviously criminal groups (eg Guristas) are in corporations - which if nothing else shows that the power of a corporation is vast - when a notable portion of your earnings comes from crime there have to be some serious benefits to justify organising it into a large, registered organisation like that.
In short, within the world it is simple unthinkable not to be in a corporation - even the lowest of the low are affiliated, those who are not slip through the cracks and have no impact on the rest of the world bar those who have to clean up their bodies. |
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Mag's
the united
19715
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Posted - 2015.07.01 08:07:10 -
[11] - Quote
I see the point the OP is making. Playing a true drifter in game and not being a part of a corp, would be good RP I guess.
Not sure why we can't and tbh, never thought about it. But it's an interesting idea all the same. Although it may be in the wrong forum.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Vek Hareka
Fist Bumps All Around
49
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Posted - 2015.07.01 08:17:10 -
[12] - Quote
EvE is all about choices and consequences. This whole world is built around these mechanics.
What consequences do you suggest then for being a lone "unemployed" wolf ?
Here comes a time, ganker,
When blingfits cease to sparkle,
When hermophite looses its luster,
When the station hangar becomes a prison
And all that is left is a capsuleer's love for his fedo.
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Wendrika Hydreiga
416
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Posted - 2015.07.01 08:35:55 -
[13] - Quote
Vek Hareka wrote:EvE is all about choices and consequences. This whole world is built around these mechanics.
What consequences do you suggest then for being a lone "unemployed" wolf ?
I can think of a few!
Being unable to speak to Mission Agents. And unable to gain security rating. And no ship insurance. |
Haruchai Khan
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
20
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Posted - 2015.07.01 08:42:52 -
[14] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:Vek Hareka wrote:EvE is all about choices and consequences. This whole world is built around these mechanics.
What consequences do you suggest then for being a lone "unemployed" wolf ? I can think of a few! Being unable to speak to Mission Agents. And unable to gain security rating. And no ship insurance.
I would imagine clone medical facilities would be denied to a 'non-person' as well. That would make for some interesting RP - quite a choice, a bit like going 'off-grid' in today's connected world. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2086
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Posted - 2015.07.01 09:11:18 -
[15] - Quote
ISK talks, so I don't see service denial being so much of an issue for the disenfranchised.
Lack of protection would be a greater issue.
Without membership in a corporation there's no compelling reason for CONCORD to act on the behalf of those without affiliation.
This would make things interesting for a capsuleer, as pretty much anyone could shoot at them without fear of retribution. Imagine a permanent suspect flag if you would.
On the other hand a disenfranchised player would still have to pay CONCORD to be allowed to engage in open hostilities in high sec with a corp or they would suffer the wrath.
It's an interesting idea at least.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Do Little
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2015.07.01 09:36:37 -
[16] - Quote
Corporations are basically containers that modify the attributes of objects (characters) placed int them. From a programmers standpoint, having one type of container and letting players move their characters between them is efficient and easy to manage. First thing you learn as a sys admin is to use groups - never assign attributes directly to objects.
They could effectively give OP what he wants by calling the corp Unaffiliated and turning off corp chat but human beings are social animals and that would be a very lonely place. Probably not worth the development effort for the handful of people who would use it. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4009
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Posted - 2015.07.01 09:46:49 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah, perma suspect sounds like a good tradeoff.
I'd do it.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2087
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Posted - 2015.07.01 09:55:42 -
[18] - Quote
The more I think about it the more I kind of like it.
It would definitely take the 'easymode' out of high sec for those who chose that path.
Giant flashing warnings before doing it wouldn't be a bad idea either, so folks would know what they're getting into.
I'd assuredly give it a test run on an alt (happy where I'm at with my main) to see how it went.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4010
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Posted - 2015.07.01 10:03:04 -
[19] - Quote
Just spitballing here, but it could be interesting if there was an incentive for 'corporates' to pay the unaffiliated to do the 'dirty work'. Maybe if they flesh out smuggling or something similar, the lone wolves of new eden would have an edge in such things. Scamming opportunities on both sides of such a deal could make this really interesting. It would be Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels in space, at least, more than it already is.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Rin Valador
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
142
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Posted - 2015.07.01 11:14:52 -
[20] - Quote
your clone program gata be payed payed for by somebody when you become a capsuleer.
"There will be neither compassion nor mercy;
Nor peace, nor solace
For those who bear witness to these Signs
And still do not believe."
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1776
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Posted - 2015.07.01 11:43:02 -
[21] - Quote
Rin Valador wrote:your clone program gata be payed payed for by somebody when you become a capsuleer. Yup.
Corporate slaves because the bureaucracy keeps popping us into fresh meat sacks.
I like the idea of not being in a corp, abandoning it all and trying to live on one pod.
(I would only do it on an alt, I am risk adverse up to that point)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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davet517
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
92
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Posted - 2015.07.01 11:44:33 -
[22] - Quote
You can read the lore if you want to get a sense of the role that corporations play in New Eden society, which is different from the society in which you live. Imagine if Apple were allowed to have a sanctioned, shooting war with Microsoft. The corp that you belong to (role-play wise) would be an integral part of your identity in New Eden. Corps in Eve operate a lot more like what we'd consider to be organized crime families.
Lore and role-play aside, these days, you're in an NPC corp until you join a player corp so that you pay taxes to someone, if for no other reason. Several years ago there were a lot of complaints that people weren't joining player run corps because they could evade taxes by staying in an NPC corp. CCP "fixed" that to try to encourage more people to join or form player corps.
As you say, it just makes those who essentially want to play the game solo to form a corp for themselves and their alts. |
Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
22
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Posted - 2015.07.01 12:18:12 -
[23] - Quote
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:Vek Hareka wrote:EvE is all about choices and consequences. This whole world is built around these mechanics.
What consequences do you suggest then for being a lone "unemployed" wolf ? I can think of a few! Being unable to speak to Mission Agents. And unable to gain security rating. And no ship insurance.
not one of those things would bother me in the slightest ... |
Zappity
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
2306
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Posted - 2015.07.01 12:22:17 -
[24] - Quote
Just create the 'Anti-Corporations Corporation' and carry on the fight.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
183
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Posted - 2015.07.01 13:19:12 -
[25] - Quote
You'll pay your 11% NPC corp tax and like it! |
Pax Deltari
R3d Fire
16
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Posted - 2015.07.01 14:51:28 -
[26] - Quote
So a lot of interesting responses. I believe the reason CCP tries to discourage no corps or one man corps is so people join up with others, make friends. and in turn don't get bored of the game and stay longer. The people is what this game is about and your relationships with them. Not the actual game play itself. |
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2015.07.01 15:22:19 -
[27] - Quote
I'm sure we can dig through the lore for a reason and I'm sure we can come up with a programming reason why buy the real answer is because that's the way it was set up. If it was anything different it would be a different game. If you are not satisfied with that its because the various governments govt big tax breaks to corporations and to live as a private citizen the tax rate in New Eden I'd like 97% and you don't have access to the markets directly without hiring a licensed broker and you would need to join a union anyways to have access to the skill books. The Angel Cartel also I'd known to be very litigious to private citizens without corporate lawyers to back you up you'd constantly be in debt.
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
237
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Posted - 2015.07.01 15:30:14 -
[28] - Quote
Hmm...
Drop player corp, and you become corp-less. If we adjust lore such that CONCORD requires capsuleers to be in a corp for tracking purposes, the new lore is that the corp-less players block the tracking data feed to CONCORD.
While corp-less, you pay no taxes and can't do any of the normal player corp stuff.
You're permanently suspect, so KOS by anybody in highsec since CONCORD isn't tracking you and won't avenge you.
At the same time, you can freely engage other pilots without CONCORD intervention, since you can temporarily block the other player's feed to CONCORD alerting them to the gank.
This opens up an interesting new playstyle - a player-based police force, able to engage highsec suspects at will.
This does complicate ganking, since recon of other players will be required. At the same time, a successful gank could be pulled off with zero ship losses. (Bumping Machs in NPC corps will still be a thing, of course.)
(As a corollary, allow corp-less players to join any NPC corp they wish, even ones outside their racial heritage, even starter corps.)
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Commander Spurty
Dimension Door
We need wards.
1485
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Posted - 2015.07.01 16:26:53 -
[29] - Quote
oh, an interesting thread at last :D
Well, the mundane answer is probably 'because the Character Table contains this field and it's required to be legit'.
Not 100% sure I follow your logic with desiring not being in a corp, but I would support "being able to move between NPC corporations as long as you have standings to allow it".
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
740
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Posted - 2015.07.01 16:49:29 -
[30] - Quote
You claim to roleplay, but suggest an unaffiliated individual would have the means to become both a capsuleer as well as keeping cloning facilities running without the backup of a corporation.
Us capsuleers use technologies and resources well beyond even the spacerich of EVE. It requires corporations and their resources to keep us going. Lore suggests us to be gods among men.
In our current real life western economic model, sending an invoice requires a corporation as well. You must register with a company name and get a "business number" before you can bill anyone.
Even those that would prefer to avoid the law and its regulations tend to give themselves a name. That you can already simulate by creating a "pirate corp". Alot of people have pretty creative names for their "corporation".
But I don't care for EVE lore myself, so couldn't care less if they removed the need to be in a corp. I view players in NPC corps as "unaffiliated" or still preparing for the "real stuff".
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