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coldkill
Gallente
Galaxy Punks
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:23:00 -
[1]
Just wanted some clarification on this. Do you actually need to have FC 1 to be in command of a fleet?
I've worked out it's going to take me around 47 days to get Wing Command 5 and Leadership 5 which will be a big hit on the time I can get a capital ship (which was my aim before the patch).
Seems a bit silly to me since I would much rather concentrate my learning times on ships and guns to make me a better combat pilot not worry about skills just so I can lead a fleet of more than 50 people. But it seems to me I would have to have someone who has Wing Command 5 so I can have at least 50 people then any more if I need another wing with 50 people. So that's 3 people at least who would've had to have spent over 40days to get WC 5 from level 1 to 5.
The original coldkill. Accept no imitations!
Friend of Ushra'Khan.
FreeLancer Alliance Fleet Commander
FHQ - "The Big Guns" |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:47:00 -
[2]
this his how I understand the gangstuff to work now.
yes you need fleet command skill to be in command of a fleet.
Means there's at least 1 wing commander and 1 squadron commander under you, and the squadron commander is under the wing commander.
Off course if you ahve 40 corpmembers you want in your fleet you could do with with jsut wing command lvl4. and 4 others need leadership 5.
Divide the 40 people into squadrons of 10 each(need leadership lvl5 to have 10 people in a squadron, hence 4 people with leadership 5)
then you form a wing with those 4 gangs and you have a fleet with everyone getting bonus from your leadership skills/mods, and every squadron member also get bonus from the squadron commmanders skills/modules.
the old stacking penalties still apply. if you ahve skirmish warfare at 5 and a squadron commander has it at 4 then his squadron members only get bonus from your lvl5 skill. same with gang modules.
- When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well |
coldkill
Gallente
Galaxy Punks
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 12:58:00 -
[3]
Yeah I understood about having the people as Squadron Leaders having Leadership 5 but that is a 1x multiplyer. Wing Command is 8x (equivilent to the BattleShip skill) and Fleet Command is 12x (equal to the dreanaught skill) so that's 2 skills which will take as long to get from BS 1 to 5 and DN level whatever depending on how many wings you want in your fleet but if you have it to level 1 it still means you can only have a 50 member gang which is the same as a flat gang.
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The original coldkill. Accept no imitations!
Friend of Ushra'Khan.
Freelancer Alliance Fleet Commander
FHQ - "The Big Guns" |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:31:00 -
[4]
yes, but flat gangs are not affected by gang skills/modules
- When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well |
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.29 13:49:00 -
[5]
I was an FC of a small gang last night, and I don't even have wing command.
*shrugs*, you might just need that skill in order to have your gang bonuses apply.
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coldkill
Gallente
Galaxy Punks
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:23:00 -
[6]
I'll try and conduct a full test of say 50 people converting to a fleet and see if I cant do it. Because it does seem to me a waste of time training up a skill just so I can have the position of an in-game Fleet Commander when OOG I'm a Fleet Commander anyway.
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The original coldkill. Accept no imitations!
Friend of Ushra'Khan.
Freelancer Alliance Fleet Commander
FHQ - "The Big Guns" |
coldkill
Gallente
Galaxy Punks
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 14:48:00 -
[7]
OK done the test and you don't need the skills to actually lead a fleet of over 50 people you just need them to pass down the benifits AFAIK.
Cold
--------------------------------------------------
The original coldkill. Accept no imitations!
Friend of Ushra'Khan.
Freelancer Alliance Fleet Commander
FHQ - "The Big Guns" |
Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:25:00 -
[8]
The fact that small gangs now don't get your skill/module bonus for leadership skills is pure BS.
I trained all the skills to advanced 5 to be more effective with a small gang running deadspace missions....now the only way I can be effective is in a fleet combat?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:30:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Vladikov Orrico
The fact that small gangs now don't get your skill/module bonus for leadership skills is pure BS.
I trained all the skills to advanced 5 to be more effective with a small gang running deadspace missions....now the only way I can be effective is in a fleet combat?
You leadership skills apply if you're the leader.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2006.11.29 15:33:00 -
[10]
According to the info above, not unless I spend time training Fleet Command...because gang bonus' are only available in fleet situations.
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Blicero Weissmann
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:35:00 -
[11]
From my testing, the bonuses DON'T apply unless you have the Fleet Command skill. Bonuses from the wing commanders might apply, but not the bonuses from the fleet commander.
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Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Karash Amerius on 29/11/2006 16:40:06
I was as fleet commander last night, and had gang bonuses apply to my fleet members. I do not have the Fleet Commander skill. I promoted a wing commander and a squadron commander within the UI and they both do not have the wing commander skills...only basic leadership (one was at level 3 and the other level 5).
I assume that the leadership -> wing -> fleet skills only give you additional members in your new fleet.
Bonuses seem to be applied from somewhere, I was assuming it was from me.
Merc Blog |
Alice Cheung
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:16:00 -
[13]
I can get bonuses from the Wing Commanders without skills, just not from the fleet commanders.
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Kaliesin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.29 21:28:00 -
[14]
I can give bonus's as fleet commander, but the gang assist modules don't seem to give bonus's.
Mooooooooo |
LaCoHa
Caldari Deep Space Navy
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:00:00 -
[15]
Ok I like the new gang mechanics, but...
Not having the warfare links, or other gang bonuses work in small groups is crap.
I never operate with more than 10 people, and as it is I dont even think it is possible for me to give them my Armored Warfare Link bonuses. That is pretty silly.
Please - let gang bonuses work for normal gangs again! 
thanks.
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Vinni
Caldari
Aveatcay Emptorway
Intergalactic Freelance Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vinni on 30/11/2006 00:29:47
In order for your converted gang to receive benefits, your leader needs to be in a command slot. Initially, this is the top of the tier, but it you move your character down to wing commander, the red icon indicating that benefits are not on turns to green to indicate that benefits are enabled. It's not intuitive at all, and took me a little while to figure out.
e.g. (I may have hierarchy wrong)
if you form a two man gang, then convert to a fleet, your gang leader is the fleet commander and your 2nd gang member becomes a member of wing 1. To get benefits, move your fleet command (gang leader) to wing commander 1 slot.
I do have onother bone to pick; when you convert to fleet, your gang window still remains open and you cannot close it. when you convert to a fleet, another comm tab opens up.
Don Vinni, Da Boss of Aveatcay Emptorway |
Gabriel D'ai
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vinni
Edited by: Vinni on 30/11/2006 00:29:47
e.g. (I may have hierarchy wrong)
if you form a two man gang, then convert to a fleet, your gang leader is the fleet commander and your 2nd gang member becomes a member of wing 1. To get benefits, move your fleet command (gang leader) to wing commander 1 slot.
You are correct Vinni, took me a while to figure it out as well. My poor lil' hulk miner wasn't getting foreman bonuses until I moved this character into the squad. I only have leadership skills, so having the wing/fleet commander isn't necessary for small gangs.
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vladikov Orrico
According to the info above, not unless I spend time training Fleet Command...because gang bonus' are only available in fleet situations.
small gang,s how small are we taling here? less then 10 people?(including yourself)
if less then leadership5 will work. make a gang, turn it into fleet and take on squadron commander role. your bonus applies to everyone in your squadron(9 others)
- When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well |
Celeste DiTaken
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:34:00 -
[19]
Yeah for small groups you can form only a Squad (with just Leadership 2 memebers per level) and as long as the person with the desired Leadership bonuses was the Squad Commander all bonuses would apply.
As far as I can see anyone can be made into and FC or WC but you cannot transfer bonuses unless you have the correct skills for the position.
Having said that I have Wing Command 1 and when we were testing my squad got a nocitce that they recieved my bonuses, but in reality they had no bonuses. I'm hoping this is a bug since most of the Dev notes made it sound like I could transfer bonuses to those below me if I am the WC. I'm just not sure I should report this as a bug or not.
Anyone else with the skills have suggestions?
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Retromash
Minmatar
Order of the Lamp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 05:15:00 -
[20]
With a Gang, I converted to Fleet, and moved around until my gang looked like this:
> FLEET - (NO COMMANDER) (2) red block
WING 1 - (NO COMMANDER) (2) red block
SQUAD 1 - GANGMOD GIRL (2) GREEN BLOCK
Gangmod Girl (Boss) (Cmdr)
Squad Member 1
Squad Member 2
Everyone in SQUAD 1 got the bonus's from the (Boss) who created the gang. I check Warfare and Mining Link modules, and all Squad Members received proper bonus's.
At Wing Commander II
PMS - It's not just for THAT time of the month
What's On Your Plate? |
Karash Amerius
Amarr
O.E.C
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:53:00 -
[21]
Bonuses do not go UPWARD as well. Meaning, if you have a more skilled Squad Commander than a Wing Commander...the Wing Commander will not recieve any bonuses from that Squad Commander. So basically, a Fleet Commander can only give bonuses to himself period.
Merc Blog |
Celeste DiTaken
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Retromash
With a Gang, I converted to Fleet, and moved around until my gang looked like this:
> FLEET - (NO COMMANDER) (2) red block
WING 1 - (NO COMMANDER) (2) red block
SQUAD 1 - GANGMOD GIRL (2) GREEN BLOCK
Gangmod Girl (Boss) (Cmdr)
Squad Member 1
Squad Member 2
Everyone in SQUAD 1 got the bonus's from the (Boss) who created the gang. I check Warfare and Mining Link modules, and all Squad Members received proper bonus's.
At Wing Commander II
That's how our Fleet worked too. What I'm trying to ask is if you moved things around like this (assuming Gagnmod Girl is the one with Wing Command 2):
> FLEET - (NO COMMANDER) (2) red block
WING 1 - Gangmod Girl (Cmdr) GREEN BLOCK
SQUAD 1 - Squadmember 1 (Cmdr) red block
Squad Member 1 (Cmdr)
Squad Member 2 (Boss)
This is the formation we used last night. I was the WC (with Wing Command level 1) and when they did a mouse over on the green light by my name it said 'You are recieving bonuses from this Wing', but they didn't actually have bonuses applied to thier ships. I have way more Leadership done than the guy we had as Squad leader so I should definately have been the source of the bonuses. While I was WC I was getting my own bonuses, but no one below me did.
If we dropped me back into the Squad as in your example all of my bonuses and mods were applied just fine. In fact the Squad bonuses worked fine before I finished Wing Command since Squad management only requires the base Leadership skill (which I had anyway).
Reguardless of who the Boss was or what role they had in the fleet, I could only give my bonuses to the Squad as that Squads commander as I expected. It's the Wing Command stuff I'm really fuzzy on.
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B'atou
Gallente
RATS Corp
Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:55:00 -
[23]
as I understand it, you give benefits to the members in a 10 men fleet. You need leadership on lvl5 to command them.
But the new skills give you ne tactical advantages. You can operate one gang and put the small ships in a different squad, so the squad commander can warp the squad to a different range than the e.g. long Range Battleship squad. Personally, i like the new gangsystem very much. It gives you completely new possibilities
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Every winner needs a looser, only idiots need a leader! |
Eethrak
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Posted - 2006.11.30 12:42:00 -
[24]
OK, I played about with this extensively yesterday, and whats on here seems fairly accurate.
If you are the WC (and have the WC skill), you don't seem to pass bonuses to squads that don't already have a valid SC capable of passing bonuses. Intuitively, the WC coordinates the SCs so this kind of follows - a squad without a competent SC isn't going to get any benefit from having a competent WC.
I'd be interested in finding out if warfare links work across a wing though, I've heard that if the WC runs the link, the squads don't get the benefit. This seems of kind of silly since in order to get the link, you need level 5 in the passive bonus already, meaning that the SC will already be granting the max bonus in that area, so there doesn't seem much benefit in the hierarchy if the SCs are the only people who can use the links...
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Ange1
Gallente
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:41:00 -
[25]
This gang bonus stuff is now rather confusing. I've been specialising for gang warfare for a while now and this seems to have thrown it out of whack a bit. I'd appreciate a Dev explaining in more detail how the gang bonuses and gang modules are supposed to work within a fleet.
The Establishment is at your service...
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1Of9
Artificial Horizons
YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vinni
Edited by: Vinni on 30/11/2006 00:29:47
In order for your converted gang to receive benefits, your leader needs to be in a command slot. Initially, this is the top of the tier, but it you move your character down to wing commander, the red icon indicating that benefits are not on turns to green to indicate that benefits are enabled. It's not intuitive at all, and took me a little while to figure out.
e.g. (I may have hierarchy wrong)
if you form a two man gang, then convert to a fleet, your gang leader is the fleet commander and your 2nd gang member becomes a member of wing 1. To get benefits, move your fleet command (gang leader) to wing commander 1 slot.
I do have onother bone to pick; when you convert to fleet, your gang window still remains open and you cannot close it. when you convert to a fleet, another comm tab opens up.
Yes, this worked for me, wish a small gang ( less than 5 ) could work like old gang model, i need a fleet for a crap 2 men gang .. awsome 
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Xtown
Apple Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:39:00 -
[27]
A two man gang works just fine. Start off by creating a gang, convert it to a fleet and have the Fleet Commander demote himself to Squad Leader whereby everyone receives Leadership and gang mod bonuses as per the old gang system.
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1Of9
Artificial Horizons
YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xtown
A two man gang works just fine. Start off by creating a gang, convert it to a fleet and have the Fleet Commander demote himself to Squad Leader whereby everyone receives Leadership and gang mod bonuses as per the old gang system.
sry mate, that dont work. u get no gang bonus at all.
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Jocindus
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.11.30 21:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: 1Of9
Originally by: Xtown
A two man gang works just fine. Start off by creating a gang, convert it to a fleet and have the Fleet Commander demote himself to Squad Leader whereby everyone receives Leadership and gang mod bonuses as per the old gang system.
sry mate, that dont work. u get no gang bonus at all.
It does as of right now, so it may have been fixed at last DT.
Process:
1) Create gang.
2) Right click on gang and select Convert to Fleet.
3) Right click on yourself and select Move to->Squad Commander
4) Enjoy bonuses, both command modules and leaderships skills are working for me.
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Binty
Caldari
SpaceWolves Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:49:00 -
[30]
Just got this working!
Created a 3 man gang, turned it into a fleet.
So two of us could use our gang mods I went to wing cmdr and my mate to squdron cmdr and one person in the squad.
This is where it went wierd! All my bouses applied to the person in the squad including the gang mods, but not the squdron cmdr.
squdron cmdr's gang mod worked for the the squad as well.
can anyone else confirm this?
If so is this a bug or should it work like that for some strange reason?
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