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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2122
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:30:31 -
[31] - Quote
When I was driving taxi people were considered rookies for an entire year.
Why? It was considered to a reasonable amount of time for a driver to be exposed to the majority of the crap out there that they would at random be forced to deal with for the rest of their 'careers. It did NOT stop this crap from happening to them, in fact the sooner it happened to them the faster they learned. We had one guy who basically had almost everything that could possibly go wrong happen to him within a month. He ended up as my boss.
It's not about how old a character is that determines how well they can adapt, it's what happens to them in the time they've had up to now. If they survive hardship they are more likely to thrive than those who are left untouched.
Also. Screw the children. No kiddies here, man up or be eaten by the wolves. You step out into the black with someone's flag on your back and you represent them when that flag is contested. One day, one week, one month, one year, one decade... IT DOES NOT MATTER. You either pick up the gun and learn to fight, or get sent back to the rear where the tattered masses swell.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24130
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:57:45 -
[32] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:It should be noted also that new players aren't children, they're typically grown men who won't shouldn't be emotionally devastated by having an Internet spaceship explode on them. FTFY, simply because some people never grow up.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
1255
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:21:52 -
[33] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:
a) pop all the things. always.
b) if he's really a trunoob, pop him first then take the time to explain to him what happened. also tell him that his ceo will make up for his loss, because - well, that's what a corp is for, no?
c) but yeah - pop all the things.
dude, you do realize f*cking with actual newbies is not allowed by CCP, right? we can't complain about not getting enough players in the game and poor NPE and then pop one day old toons who don't understand the game yet. Go gank someone who at least knows what an afterburner is, for christ sake. Gank, by all means, but don't be an a**hole about it to true newbies. If CCP finds out you are doing that, bad things will happen.
You think people join a spaceship shooting game to avoid spaceship shooting stuff? You think if you make it more boring they are more likely to stay?
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Renegade Heart
Micro N2
428
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Posted - 2015.07.07 16:28:58 -
[34] - Quote
Was just reading this thing...
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Attacked_in_Secure_Space
Wiki wrote:In the universe of EVE, no space is 100% safe. It is vital for every player to realize this as soon as possible after starting playing the game.
So better to kill a one day old character than a month old character then  |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
185
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:44:49 -
[35] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:.
Empty quoting because I am not interested in a 17 page conversation. You ignored the quote I gave by GM Homonoia.
"Again, spirit of the rule, not the letter. If you find yourself trying to figure out specifically where we draw the line you are obviously targeting rookies, which is NOT allowed. You decide to do this, you will find out where the line is when we warn you."
What, exactly do you think the GM meant by that?
Focus on "the spirit of the rule, not the letter"
That was exactly my point.
I do try to help as much as I can, but when a corp recruiter sits in a newbie system sending out convos with corp invites to two hour old players, do we then blame the two hour old player, or the corp recruiter (who is at war) for abusing a newbie?
I think if someone can't handle getting ganked, they don't belong in EVE, but for the fourth time, give them a day or two to settle in. Where's the line between teaching a rookie a trial by fire and just being an as*hole? |
Marlin Spikes
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP
The Marmite Collective
219
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Posted - 2015.07.07 21:13:49 -
[36] - Quote
Red is red. The line is thick and clear.
WE (Eve) should expect corporations to either train newbies or not recruit during wartime - scratch that...
Yes, corporations should ALWAYS recruit during wardecs. War-time is the perfect time to build your ranks with day-old toons. The most successful corporations and alliances have this practice written into their recruitment policies.
No matter how you slice this, the blame goes on the corporation. Train your newbies!
Bombers Rule!!!
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Ahed Sten
58
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Posted - 2015.07.07 23:13:08 -
[37] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote: Stuff
Veers? Is that you?
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
185
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Posted - 2015.07.07 23:37:11 -
[38] - Quote
Ahed Sten wrote:
Veers? Is that you?
/sigh. reading and all that.
Apparently now "give rookies a day or two before ganking them" means "there should be permanent PvE only in EVE"
did you even read what I wrote?
take a step back and try again slugger.
EDIT: it's also somewhat hilarious how literally none of you pro-newbie ganking folks have said a word about the GM quote I gave. "If I avoid it, maybe it will go away!" |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24150
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Posted - 2015.07.07 23:48:52 -
[39] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Empty quoting because I am not interested in a 17 page conversation. You ignored the quote I gave by GM Homonoia.
"Again, spirit of the rule, not the letter. If you find yourself trying to figure out specifically where we draw the line you are obviously targeting rookies, which is NOT allowed. You decide to do this, you will find out where the line is when we warn you."
What, exactly do you think the GM meant by that?
Focus on "the spirit of the rule, not the letter"
That was exactly my point.
I do try to help as much as I can, but when a corp recruiter sits in a newbie system sending out convos with corp invites to two hour old players, do we then blame the two hour old player, or the corp recruiter (who is at war) for abusing a newbie?
I think if someone can't handle getting ganked, they don't belong in EVE, but for the fourth time, give them a day or two to settle in. Where's the line between teaching a rookie a trial by fire and just being an as*hole? You should try reading further, there was a very specific case raised in the thread that clarifies rookie system rules, and it's an exact match for this one.
GM Homonoia wrote:And this is why we will not define what a rookie is. Once again, common sense; a rookie involves himself in a war, perhaps not so rookie anymore. Now, stop coming up with hypothetical situations and apply some common sense.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
220
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Posted - 2015.07.08 00:33:12 -
[40] - Quote
3 hour old alt, not wardec'd. 3 jumps from Jita. In a noobship. Cargo full of plex.
Shoot or naw?
Im a shooter. Can sort it out with ccp later. If need even be.
Signature Removal in Progress, Estimated time of completion? Neva
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Zealous Miner
272
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Posted - 2015.07.08 01:51:51 -
[41] - Quote
If it isn't a starter/protected system then pull the trigger.
Each gun packs a lesson people are better off learning sooner rather than later.
Fedo. Fedo? Fedo!
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Kaely Tanniss
Black Hydra Consortium.
431
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Posted - 2015.07.08 02:17:27 -
[42] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
No
Um, yes, in response to asking what is a rookie: GM Homonoia wrote:
We are not going to define them. We say 8 days, someone will target 9 day old people. Again, spirit of the rule, not the letter. If you find yourself trying to figure out specifically where we draw the line you are obviously targeting rookies, which is NOT allowed. You decide to do this, you will find out where the line is when we warn you.
If you're specifically targeting newbies, you need to take a step back and have your head examined.
ANYONE in a war is a target..noob or vet. If the Ceo of the corp they joined didn't explain that his corp was at war or what that means to the noob..then the blame lies with the corps CEO..not the agressor. Most mercs and PvPers are NOT gonna take the time to look up a flashy to make sure they aren't new. Noobs are safe only 1 place..rookie systems. When they choose to venture out, they accept whatever risks are associated with that.
Very few people who start Eve are unaware of what kind of game it is. There is a misconception of what a noob is too...a 1 day old char that is an alt of a vet is NOT a noob. How are we supposed to tell the dfference...we aren't..shoot first, sort it out later. 'Tis the way of Eve.
If you want to play a game where you are safe...Eve is not the game. 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
148
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Posted - 2015.07.08 07:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Funny, I had a thread about someone killing newbros last year. I changed how I looked at things after that
Killing a newbro is okay, as in this case he was a WT, out of rookies system, and had his ship replaced. Probably learned more than his corp tought him and had some fun too. Well done.
I think that there is a distinct difference between killing a newbro and systematically targeting them. I don't think anyone here would disagree.
Tora Bushido wrote:I'm an evil war lord ! And if I want to SRP war target newbies we just shot, I shall enforce my isks upon him. If he wants it or not !! 
You old softie |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP
The Marmite Collective
2616
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Posted - 2015.07.08 07:59:42 -
[44] - Quote
In real life I would probably be the one helping newbies. In Eve I try to be an 'evil war lord', but sometimes my softie side remembers me how it was, when I started playing Eve and lost something. It's funny sometimes when you srp them, they think they're being scammed, but cant find the reason why..... cause there isnt one 
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
185
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Posted - 2015.07.08 14:33:24 -
[45] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You should try reading further, there was a very specific case raised in the thread that clarifies rookie system rules, and it's an exact match for this one. GM Homonoia wrote:And this is why we will not define what a rookie is. Once again, common sense; a rookie involves himself in a war, perhaps not so rookie anymore. Now, stop coming up with hypothetical situations and apply some common sense.
I did read it. I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way.
Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two.
What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24155
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Posted - 2015.07.08 15:03:48 -
[46] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:I did read it. So why the angst? Newbie was a war target, the GM quote suggests that killing a newbie that gets involved in a war is fine.
Quote:I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way. We get the spirit of the rule, which is to refrain from futzing with newbies by using their ignorance against them.
Newbie steals from a wreck, valid target; unless you told them it was OK and then shoot them.
Newbie joins a corp that's at war, valid target regardless of their newbie status.
Newbie moves Plex in a frigate, valid target regardless of their newbie status.
Newbie is enticed into a combat situation by a more experienced player using their ignorance against them in any way, not a valid target.
Quote:Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two. We're fine with leaving them alone for a while, unless they make themselves valid targets without encouragement. That said it's far better for a newbie to learn that a ship is a disposable tool while they're flying frigates, instead of when they're flying poorly fitted BC's because they think bigger is better.
Quote:What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway? Curiosity
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
187
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Posted - 2015.07.08 15:19:34 -
[47] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:I did read it. So why the angst? Newbie was a war target, the GM quote suggests that killing a newbie that gets involved in a war is fine. Quote:I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way. We get the spirit of the rule, which is to refrain from futzing with newbies by using their ignorance against them. Newbie steals from a wreck, valid target; unless you told them it was OK and then shoot them. Newbie joins a corp that's at war, valid target regardless of their newbie status. Newbie moves Plex in a frigate, valid target regardless of their newbie status. Newbie is enticed into a combat situation by a more experienced player using their ignorance against them in any way, not a valid target. Quote:Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two. We're fine with leaving them alone for a while, unless they make themselves valid targets without encouragement. That said it's far better for a newbie to learn that a ship is a disposable tool while they're flying frigates, instead of when they're flying poorly fitted BC's because they think bigger is better. Quote:What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway? Curiosity
I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.
I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.
Obviously not everyone agrees.
I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.
Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.
In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.
Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
2721
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Posted - 2015.07.08 15:39:56 -
[48] - Quote
Often times, particularly in highsec wars the goal becomes to inflict morale damage in order to get members of a corp to turn against their leadership or quit the corp entirely.
Nothing makes a CEO look quite so cowardly, impotent and uncaring as you pointing a week old newbie with your assault frig and holding him there for 15 minutes as the CEO sits docked up in local doing nothing to rescue one of his most vulnerable members.
I totally took the be ty he villain ads to heart if you can't tell. |
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:24:01 -
[49] - Quote
hey I just had a great idea. If newbies shouldn't be shot at, I am going to create like 5 alts and join a war decced corp fly all my alts in rookie ships around a war target, all the while yelling "NO TOUCHING!" in local. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous
The Marmite Collective
1230
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Posted - 2015.07.08 23:13:56 -
[50] - Quote
Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Leto Thule
Origin.
Black Legion.
3076
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Posted - 2015.07.08 23:17:31 -
[51] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking
Seriously this.
If you wait, you can lose your target. No way I am opening up a character sheet and reading the corp history to determine age before fighting someone.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Damnskippy
Mad Bombers
Hashashin Cartel
53
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Posted - 2015.07.09 01:26:19 -
[52] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking
+1
I myself like to shoot at anything I can and decide if it was a good idea afterwards. What fun are fights if you are guaranteed to win? |
Mobadder Thworst
Noob Farmers
Bad Neighbors.
474
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Posted - 2015.07.09 02:42:52 -
[53] - Quote
Petre en Thielles wrote:[
I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.
I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.
Obviously not everyone agrees.
I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.
Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.
In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.
Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea.
CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.
Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.
I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous
The Marmite Collective
1241
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 08:25:18 -
[54] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:[
I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.
I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.
Obviously not everyone agrees.
I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.
Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.
In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.
Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea. CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience. Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit. I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.
I already linked him this. Its like a brick wall even when the game designers release statistics saying his stance is not only misguided but detrimental to the game he doesn't back down or alter his views
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Domino Vyse
Element Connective
150
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Posted - 2015.07.09 08:58:24 -
[55] - Quote
Dunking new players is one of the best ways to keep them subbed. They love it. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I
928
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Posted - 2015.07.09 09:00:44 -
[56] - Quote
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:also tell him that his ceo will make up for his loss, because - well, that's what a corp is for, no?
never heard of corps just reimbursing ships for solo stuff, i need to find a corp like that to replace my ships on my drunken solo escapades 
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Mobadder Thworst
Noob Farmers
Bad Neighbors.
477
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Posted - 2015.07.09 10:45:17 -
[57] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Mobadder Thworst wrote:Petre en Thielles wrote:[
I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.
I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.
Obviously not everyone agrees.
I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.
Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.
In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.
Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea. CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience. Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit. I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base. I already linked him this. Its like a brick wall even when the game designers release statistics saying his stance is not only misguided but detrimental to the game he doesn't back down or alter his views
People like Petre are destroying the game. Has he no morals?
I can hardly kill noobs fast enough to offset his bad energy.
I still regret the failure of the "No Newbro Left Behind" initiative. Veers and I just couldn't make it go. We were going to save the universe...
What I do, I do for the children...
Where is my damn retention award.
Mo |
Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
189
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Posted - 2015.07.09 13:47:16 -
[58] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.
Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.
I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.
Are you even reading what I said?
I am 100% in favor of ganking new players. I said give them a day or two, not don't ever kill a newbie. Christ...
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
People like Petre are destroying the game. Has he no morals?
I can hardly kill noobs fast enough to offset his bad energy.
I still regret the failure of the "No Newbro Left Behind" initiative. Veers and I just couldn't make it go. We were going to save the universe...
What I do, I do for the children...
Where is my damn retention award.
Mo
Reading is hard, isn't it? Give a newbie 24 hours to get through the career missions. Yep. I'm destroying the game by saying that.
10/10, great post Mo! You can read gud.
Now go back to the noble work of padding your KB with mindless, easy kills like the bear that high sec gankers are. |
Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous
The Marmite Collective
1243
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Posted - 2015.07.09 13:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
How does one know they are killing a newbie before the deed is done? Your posting in a thread where a newbie was in a pipe...
Reading is hard, isn't it?
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Petre en Thielles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
189
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Posted - 2015.07.09 14:57:48 -
[60] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:How does one know they are killing a newbie before the deed is done? Your posting in a thread where a newbie was in a pipe...
Reading is hard, isn't it?
apologize, I don't mindlessly sit on gates and blap people. I actually check corp history, research people, etc. before engaging
I don't think like a high sec war dec bear |
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