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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10755
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Posted - 2015.07.07 13:35:53 -
[1] - Quote
Wut? I don't get what you are trying to say OP, your conclusion. Are you trying to say vets should biomass their low SP alts (yes we all have them) because it's not fair they took the time to l2p and fly well while others are lazy or too busy playing other games to become effective with the same ships and fits? It's... just... not... fair  |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10755
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:05:08 -
[2] - Quote
T2 mods and weapons for frigs are generally cheaper than most of the lower skill stuff apart from basic T1. Best bang for your isk usually. Easy enough to get a full fit with 1mo of training, as one of my alts has. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10756
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Posted - 2015.07.07 14:33:57 -
[3] - Quote
Ivant Sumboodi wrote:Guys like this make me worry, consider this-
they got rid of Learning Skills in 2008, they got rid of clones/upgrades/sp loss in 2013(2014? cant remember), so what'll happen 4 years from now? Getting rid of SP as we know it?
Would still be too hard for some. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11055
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Posted - 2015.07.12 00:49:30 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, deflation is no solution. Nor is hyper-deflation. Nor to a problem that doesn't really exist. ISK in EVE is mostly fiat monies. Although, in many ways it's gold standard is PLEX. But then PLEX doesn't directly create money in EVE, only amasses it. But it does have an influence, in that it drives some players to create more fiat money from isk faucets where as they would not so much otherwise. Removing NPC payouts would only make things worse, at least for everyone but those dedicated farmers. And deflation would only make things better for those that have amassed considerable wealth already, not for avg players looking to waste isk breaking things. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11057
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Posted - 2015.07.12 02:59:29 -
[5] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
EVE does not have hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is what happens when people in an economy no longer believe in their fiat currency. That has not happened in Eve.
As for PLEX, it serves a dual purpose of forcing down the price of illegal ISK. While this might not seem like a good thing the point is that it reduces the revenues for ISK sellers. Secondly, PLEX also help redistribute wealth in game. PLEX is not really a gold standard in that outside of the game they have no innate value.
And no, deflation is almost surely a bad thing for the game. Reducing the rate of inflation might be good, but deflation should be considered very, very carefully. I see no reason for it at all.
I had nothing to say about "hyperinflation", nor said my view of deflation as positive. In many ways PLEX is a gold standard, but I didn't say directly is, just has some similarities, or I would have not called ISK fiat money. Read-read.
Consequences in everything. PLEX may curve player RMT, but it has it's limits as well as it's costs. Like I mentioned, it drives players to commit more time to farming, thus injects more isk into the system that wouldn't have otherwise been there. As players want more for their PLEX, buyers need to farm more, injecting even more ISK into the system. It's not even really running on supply and demand any longer, just as much as they can get which they will with enough patience. Last years economy report at fanfest kinda showed that.
But not all prices go up, I see prices on some items go down. But in that, it's more of supply and demand as there is imbalance in the sandbox and favoritism often shifts with a few lines of code.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11057
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Posted - 2015.07.12 04:32:41 -
[6] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Regarding hyperinflation, you did mention it and I was just pointing out what it really is.
Webvan wrote:Yes, deflation is no solution. Nor is hyper-deflation. Nor to a problem that doesn't really exist. ISK in EVE is mostly fiat monies. Although, in many ways it's gold standard is PLEX. But then PLEX doesn't directly create money in EVE, only amasses it. But it does have an influence, in that it drives some players to create more fiat money from isk faucets where as they would not so much otherwise. Removing NPC payouts would only make things worse, at least for everyone but those dedicated farmers. And deflation would only make things better for those that have amassed considerable wealth already, not for avg players looking to waste isk breaking things.
Nope ^^ 
I was addressing a previous post/s on deflation, nothing here or there about hyperinflation. But you are free to reply back with underlines to where it is in this quote. No worries.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hyperdeflation.asp
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11058
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Posted - 2015.07.12 06:11:57 -
[7] - Quote
Well it is a conundrum. It's as if I could reach into another reality and pull out wealth to better my living standards here. But since PLEX was introduced, all other prices imo have remained generally stable enough, I mean I don't see extravagant prices for equipment so to really change the course of gameplay. But CCP has in the past had to step in an manipulate the PLEX market, and how that will be maintained for a decade is unknown, or how it will effect equipment costs which is more my concern since I just don't deal with PLEX directly. But the unknown doesn't mean that there is an issue, it's just unknown. I see no issue. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11073
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Posted - 2015.07.13 01:30:06 -
[8] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Can't run higher level missions, combat sites, hacking sites, wormhole sites, or defeat 1v1 a pilot of equal ability in the same fit with higher SP in relevant skills.
But that's not "reasonable" nor accurate. I mean, talking the few first days, so what?? Generally by the time a newbie starts with the basic tutorial, does all the career agents, then completes the newbie epic mission arc (bloodstained stars) about a month has passed and they have SP and ships to do more, including things on that list. Looks more an entitlement list, for a solo player, as all that could be done the first few days with another player along. After playing EVE for years, why can't I run incursions solo and even earn a PLEX a day from it to f2p?!? it's so not fairrrr
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11073
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Posted - 2015.07.13 02:15:35 -
[9] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with this. Progression is part of any MMO. But telling Joe Newbro he can do anything if he is just smart enough is not accurate.
Well fair enough, but then I'd never say a newbie can do anything in this game, not solo anyway. And even then, still some things even in a group they cannot do, at least a small number of things. But generally they can participate in any activity, just not do everything in that activity, nor do it solo. This is in contrast to most any other mmo where progression levels do in fact limit participation. And even here with high SP, you are still limited in some things to co-op play in some form. This is just the nature of EVE, everything can't be done by anyone, vet and newbie alike.
1v1 is not even really a thing for EVE, but a newbie can get into a gang/fleet and run tackle, and while they learn how EVE works. Exploration, still a career mission line for that? That was one of the first things I got into when I was new, did it for years, anyway back before the mini-game and you had to have weapons to run radar sites. Seems since then, that has become even more newbie friendly, too much however. Across the board this game use to be harder for newbies, but in recent years CCP has opened up most everything for someone new, regardless of SP.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11074
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Posted - 2015.07.13 03:28:31 -
[10] - Quote
Ramshack Z wrote:Webvan wrote:Seems since then, that has become even more newbie friendly, too much however. Across the board this game use to be harder for newbies, but in recent years CCP has opened up most everything for someone new, regardless of SP.
I disagree. What they did with exploration was great. I adapted to the new style and though the rewards have diminished due to competition the fact I'm seeing young players make their way up without even touching goddamned missions or mining lasers is a thing of beauty. In other words, no change happened as far as being doable for a new player with exploration. Only just made them even less likely to survive in EVE's general hostile environment, unarmed. I still think it is all just a really bad fail joke.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11163
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:42:46 -
[11] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Webvan wrote:In other words, no change happened as far as being doable for a new player with exploration. Only just made them even less likely to survive in EVE's general hostile environment, unarmed. I still think it is all just a really bad fail joke.
Do you have any idea how much easier they made it to scan down sites, compared to how it used to be? I used to think I was good at scanning. Now a 1-day old player can have 8 probes out, and doesn't even need to think about the formation used, or using DSPs to get a spread of sigs in the whole system. It's a whole new level of simplicity.
You mean probe down? It was when you had max skills like with my character I ran those sites with. Since the changes, I only probe down for combat exploration. How easy it is now with low SP I haven't tried, though I'm likely to train some onto this character for combat probes. But that is a two way street, as then it takes less SP for an explorer hunter to locate their defenseless prey. At least when it was harder, it would make it so the guy hunting the explorer had to sacrifice SP/time into training solid probing skills. In turn the explorer would be forced to train weapons and counters to combat.
But my point in the first sentence was about I having done them years ago with low SP and they were very much "doable", this has never changed. There was no barrier for new players into exploration. Making it easier fixed nothing other than to make EVE harder by making new players complacent about training good survival skills such as weapon systems and such combat skills.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11164
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Posted - 2015.07.16 23:15:25 -
[12] - Quote
Eleygen I'cey wrote:
Unfortunately you are wrong. Time in this game is the only barrier that cannot be speed up by skill or player interaction. Even if I am the best battleship pilot ever to have played eve and funded by the richest alliance how long will it take before I can fly one from 0sp? Months? Years? That is the definition of a barrier.
You are talking more about just general min/max stuff though, which still is not really an issue in EVE unless you punish yourself with 1v1 pvp. Just because it takes time to train into BS, that is absolutely no barrier to becoming a Combat Pilot and flying a combat ship. SP and time just gives you more options.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11166
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:50:47 -
[13] - Quote
Bubba Ovaert wrote:Aerasia wrote:you're going to get tired of the E-War frig Sorry to spoil the experience, but you're going to get tired of flying literally everything at some point. The wisdom of high sp is realizing that being a new player in a malus is about as interesting a role as being a decade old player in a T3 cruiser and both of those things are vastly more interesting than piloting capital ships, even if they have marginal utility by comparison.
Yep well said. Hence why I have three subcap combat pilots and nothing else, nor ever will. EVE is boring, but it's the best boring game on the market that everyone should play imo. Instant gratification is over rated and far more boring.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11166
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Posted - 2015.07.17 04:09:18 -
[14] - Quote
Eleygen I'cey wrote:Bubba Ovaert wrote:Aerasia wrote:you're going to get tired of the E-War frig Sorry to spoil the experience, but you're going to get tired of flying literally everything at some point. The wisdom of high sp is realizing that being a new player in a malus is about as interesting a role as being a decade old player in a T3 cruiser and both of those things are vastly more interesting than piloting capital ships, even if they have marginal utility by comparison. Yes, but if that "some point" is in a decade I would hardly give that as a reason to limit ship selection for new players. Using me as an example it takes well over 60+ days before I can even see if flying a battleship is something I'd enjoy. If its not then I just wasted months of training for nothing. Maybe a compromise would be having a re-playable career mission give you a test mission for each ship class. I wouldn't mind a 60+ day wait if i knew for sure I would enjoy the result, that's just more time to accumulate isk and general experience. You know the cool part about EVE? It's not the only space game ever made. Even in X3, capitals (which take a lot of time to get) are boring and most anything heavy and slow is boring. Lots of other games are the same way. I do like battleships here, but it's far from they being exciting that I like about them, and really I could live w/o them.
The only real true edge of your seat fun in this game are AF's (to me anyway), though recently decimated by boring T3D's in the new OP intro phase of them. So, using your example and applying what I already know, Caps are very boring to me, so much so I don't need to train them to know I'm just not interested. However, if you are new to space sim games in general (maybe coming from night elf hunter type games?), you can always train BS on sisi if you have no clue yet. Newbies shouldn't be flying Dreadnoughts! What do you think this is, a Nintendo game? 
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11181
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Posted - 2015.07.17 22:55:54 -
[15] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:New players insist if they had more SP they'd be having more fun farming for PLEX so they never need pay a dime into an EVE subscription.
ftfy 
Result: 400k+ new subs, for a little while anyway while PLEX prices go up to 10B and the game economy is driven into hyperinflation.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11183
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Posted - 2015.07.18 07:24:03 -
[16] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:I'd say that player retention is massive assuming it's the right type of player, why try and "retain" the type you can't ever please for any longer period of time.
Which is pretty much like every f2p. And I don't see how any suggestion here would not point EVE into the direction of an f2p. f2p = we don't want to PAY for both WoW and your game. All I see is burning wreckage.
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