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Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.11.29 16:56:00 -
[1]
My intuition suggests that since most newer players will not want to train Survey V and Mechanic V straight away, the only people supplying decent quantities of rigs will be those who are doing level 3-4 missions and are moderately well off. What will happen?
Depending on how the different types of salvage components are distributed among wrecks, I suspect that after a while people will find that they have a lot of types of components that they don't need and will start selling/swapping them- there are 38 kinds of salvage components, of which only 3 types are needed for most (all?) individual rigs. I haven't yet considered which are the most widely needed components, or which ones produce the most sought-after rigs.
Currently, there are only a handful of components on sale, and people are charging several million apiece for them, but there obviously isn't much competition among sellers just yet. The converse is true for buyers.
I expect that the majority of people will soon want to trade components for other components rather than for isk, and that the (isk) sell prices for them will remain very high until most of the first wave of salvagers have managed to build as many rigs as they can use themselves.
I doubt there will be many rigs on the market at all, for weeks at least, except at exorbitant prices. It may be supposed to be a 'career option', but I suspect most people would rather make their own rigs than pay others to build them when everything required to do so is readily obtainable. It'll probably just become an extra source of income for veteran mission runners.
In the long run, I predict that rigs will end up costing somewhere between what t2 and faction items cost, but probably nearer to faction items.
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An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.11.29 17:29:00 -
[2]
no idea where they will end up, but i do know the that 9mil per unit of salvage components in jita will not be the going rate.
At that rate, a simple tech 1 rig has an average value of 1.8 billion isk since on average the rigs need around 200 units of salvage components to make.
I suspect a rate closer to 100k to 200k a unit depending on availability may be the final rate which will lead to rigs being in the 35 to 55mil price range each rig. I could be a little off on that though
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Angelina Starchild
Skroten
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:22:00 -
[3]
What would you think people would be interested in paying for a Rig? After all, it's only an item you can place on a single ship. Compare that with faction modules, where you could be using a specific module on several different frigs, you just need to move it when changing ship.
And also, a Rig isn't necessarily an improvement. A faction module is the top-of-the-line, best in game, while a Rig would had to be adapted to your specific fighting style.
Would 15-20M be a reasonable amount?
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:25:00 -
[4]
It all depends on what the NPC's drop and in what quantities. My guess is that they will be in the Megacyte/Zydrine/Morphite price range. I don't see the 300k a unit people are talking about. Remember these are not unique items and there is a ceiling on what people will pay. Speaking for myself, as soon as I get salvaging trained in the next few days I will have a look at prices. If they are too expensive I will simply buy large amounts of cheap unpopular ships and blow them up. I was planning to do that with Hounds but it looks like their price is going up.
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Kallius Petrovich
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:26:00 -
[5]
I for one will be getting salvaging just too keep track of which **** wrecks I've looted.
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Angelina Starchild
Skroten
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Posted - 2006.11.29 18:29:00 -
[6]
From the player ships I've salvaged, I've only been able to acquire Metal scraps. These was both from Rifter and Imicus, frigates. I might've been unlucky though.
I haven't been able to salvage a T2 ship yet, as I didn't have enough skill. (Requires lvl 5 salvage?)
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 19:17:00 -
[7]
Just for info : Salvaged from Vengeance (L4)
1 Charred Micro Circuit
1 Fried Interface Circuit
20 Malfunctioning Shield Emitter
19 Scorched Telemetry Processor
14 Ward Console
Can't comment on prices...the normal chancers have buy orders out at 100 ISK per...some more reasonable offers starting to appear...I just thought info on relative rarity might help.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Angelina Starchild
Skroten
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:14:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Grey Area
Just for info : Salvaged from Vengeance (L4)
1 Charred Micro Circuit
1 Fried Interface Circuit
20 Malfunctioning Shield Emitter
19 Scorched Telemetry Processor
14 Ward Console
Can't comment on prices...the normal chancers have buy orders out at 100 ISK per...some more reasonable offers starting to appear...I just thought info on relative rarity might help.
That's very interesting :)
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Ferana
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Posted - 2006.11.29 22:16:00 -
[9]
Hmm. Which version of Vengeance was that? Looks like what I'd expect from Guristas if logic applied to EVE...
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:03:00 -
[10]
'twas Guristas, good ol' Rachen biting the bullet again...
Here's what I got from Worlds Collide (L4) Serp/Gurista
5 Broken Drone Transceiver
1 Burned Logic Ciruit
1 Charred Micro Circuit
5 Conductive Polymer
9 Contaminated Lorentz Fluid
3 Fried Interface Circuit
17 Malfunctioning Shield Emitter
13 Scorched Telmetry Prcoessor
3 Tripped Power Circuit
10 Ward Console
And just for the record...from acceptance to finish;
Vengeance: 3 and a half hours
Worlds Collide: 3 and a half hours
Welcome to EVE, the game that lets you play two missions a day...
I use a Coercer to loot & scavenge...3 tractors and 3 scavenger I's, all cargo expander II's in low slots.
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:32:00 -
[11]
I think these will be cheaper then more expensive.
The simple reason is, anyone can get them if they have the skills, just like every other T1 mod. That combined with the fact that once installed it's used. Much like an Implant, means not everyone will buy them. I am not going to rig up my T1 Cruiser with 50mil rigs that don't really warrant the cost.
Now Implants are pricey because even though anyone can get them they are still random choice. I did enough level 3 missions to get 6 Storyline missions. Each one rewarded an implant.... I had 4 Social Implants. There is no choice with implants and no one can just rat and salvage implants from dead ships.
So, although they are the "Implant" for the ship which would warrant a higher price, the BPO price, the easiness of getting the parts required, and, from what I can predict will be, average demand. I predict the price to level out at maybe a 500K, for T1 versions of popular stuff, and 50mil for T2 (BPO's are not marketed so these will be pricey Rigs)
After all, the only cost you need to recover is the BPO, the Skills, and the Salvager, which is a very cheap BPO and costs hardly anything to build.
The cost even including the BPO's, Manufacture time, hell even BPO research, is so cheap, selling them for any more then 1mil will just push people to go and buy their own BPO's, their OWN skills, and do it themselves.
If the Market thinks about it, cornering this now at cheap prices so people do rush out and get do their own rig BPOs, it would be more profitable in the long run. Pushing the consumer into high prices only means the consumer will go elsewhere (DYI anyone?)
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.11.29 23:37:00 -
[12]
The rig prices only depend on supply and nothing else. Id be willing to pay a couple hundred mil for certain t2 rigs. If they turn out to be common, people will pay less. If they turn out to be hard to get, i will pay lots. Simple as that.
So far, i have heard mixed reports. Someone did Angel Extra and got no comps at all.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:00:00 -
[13]
Getting hold of the equipment is easy. Getting hold of all the components needed is not - I think some research is needed into which rats drop which components, and more data on the frequencies of the different types 
A high isk price on rigs would reflect the time and effort required to find all the components for them - I think salvagers would want to make at least as much isk/hour as high-sec miners from their 'profession', and then some more  .
Assuming that it takes about half an hour to fully salvage a level 4 mission that drops about 60 components, and that with some trades/swaps it is possible to use all of them to build rigs, one rig takes about 3 missions' worth of components to build. For most people, this represents about 2 hours' work on top of 9 hours' worth of missions, so to be in line with mining Omber for 2 hours, one would have to sell a rig for 10-20m.
Feel free to supply more accurate statistics if you have any 
One remark- I have noticed that some items, e.g. the Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer, require dozens of the charred and burned logic circuits, which only seem to drop once per mission if the two above are anything to go by- it looks as though some rigs are going to be a lot more pricey than others.
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An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:06:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:10:36
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Assuming that it takes about half an hour to fully salvage a level 4 mission that drops about 60 components,
Half an hour? HALF AN HOUR?
When I stop laughing wryly, I will post something more constructive.
OK...calmed down now...FULLY looting and salvaging a mission (and remember, you can choose to loot but not salvage, but you can't salvage and not loot, as you have to take the loot out BEFORE you can salvage) takes TWO HOURS. I assume that it will get faster with skills...but I don't think you're ever going to get it down to 30 minutes...and equally, those who DO "skill up" for it will be wanting more of a reward to cover that training time...
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SencneS
I think these will be cheaper then more expensive.
The simple reason is, anyone can get them if they have the skills...
...Now Implants are pricey because even though anyone can get them they are still random choice
I think you'll find these salvaged items are pretty random too...some of them are going to drop in tens or twentys from missions...I noticed that the Slavage Tackle requires an item I haven't even SEEN yet...so I don't think your argument quite holds water...
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I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:18:00 -
[16]
Thank you for the (more accurate) statistics.
Well, in that case, let's bump the lower bound up by a factor of 4 to about 60m 
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An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
Kesslan Osefice
Panther's Paw Industries Ltd
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:14:00 -
[17]
speaking of the salvage modules etc, where on earth do you even find the modules/BPOs for the actual salvage gear? I've found (and aquired) all the rig BPOs on the market. But I havent found any for the actual salvage equipment itself yet. But thats likely because I dont know where to look, so any help there would be appreciated.
Back onto the main topic however, I think certainly for a good long while rigs themselve will be pretty pricy. Especially for the first while. Part of the reason I say this is because I used to play on SWG before SOE butchered the whole system (especially the crafting system). Now the best items etc, used to require various loot drops to make, and after a while SOE went kinda loot drop crazy for crafting certain things.
At the very start the prices of these loot drops were astronomical (As we are seeing now) and sure as hell were not worth the money. Prices eventually dropped a good deal, as I'm sure we will see here, and then stabalized as the very common drops became crazily common and the rarer ones stayed obviously more expensive. Of course the catch here is that in SWG you dont NEED special equipment or skills for the loot drops. You just pick them up. In EVE you actually have to spend the time to do nothing but gather them up.
Right there that will mean prices will be a fair bit more expensive. And I dont doubt for a moment that prices will wind up being more on par with mineral prices. Salvaging is very much now it's own stand alone profession, and as such people who do nothing but spend all day finding wrecks and other things to salvage, will want a reasonable return on their rate of invested time.
Personally to me this would indicate that in many cases, it simply will not be economically feasible to rig the cheaper ships. Some people will, no doubt do it anyway as peole are allways vying for some way to be 'the best' especially the die hard PVPers which will be a rig producers main source of income.
I think overall however we are going to need quite abit more time (probably several months infact) before we see any real trend in the salvage component/rig market and get any real idea on what prices more or less 'should' be to be considered 'reasonable'. I mean T2 prices are out of this world, and are certainly NOT reasonable for the requirements to build most of them, but then alot of that inflation comes from supply and demand. And much the same will control the prices of rigs.
That factor alone seems to indicate to me that the intial prices of rigs, and even the long term price of rigs and their loot components will be quite high. And I'd hazard to guess at least several K per looted component. With a rough guestimate of probably a range of likely 100K bare minimum to maybe 500k average for a 'common' rig as a result. It wouldnt supprise me at all to see the rarer T1 versions go for several million.
Some of this will also be offset by other factors, such as do the wreck of destroyed ships using rigs:
A) Leave intact rigs as salvage (as you can some times get modules)
B) Give a higher return on rig components when salvaged (Though I doubt this would affect thigns very much at all)
C) Destroyed player ships in general giving a higher chance of rig components for salvage. This was something brough up by some one else in some other post, pre patch but if it is the case its worth noting.
Yay we finally have a forum:
http://pantherspaw.freehostia.com/ |
Arushia
Nova Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:10:36
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Assuming that it takes about half an hour to fully salvage a level 4 mission that drops about 60 components,
Half an hour? HALF AN HOUR?
When I stop laughing wryly, I will post something more constructive.
OK...calmed down now...FULLY looting and salvaging a mission (and remember, you can choose to loot but not salvage, but you can't salvage and not loot, as you have to take the loot out BEFORE you can salvage) takes TWO HOURS. I assume that it will get faster with skills...but I don't think you're ever going to get it down to 30 minutes...and equally, those who DO "skill up" for it will be wanting more of a reward to cover that training time...
2 Hours? Are you using one salvage module with 1 level in salvaging and no tractor beams.
I flew level 4 worlds collide with my corp today, about 4 combat pilots and me in an Exequror with 2 tractors and 2 salvagers looting and salvaging while they killed.
It took us less than an hour to kill and salvage the whole Serpentis side. And we took time out to blow up the Serpentis battlestation. They never had to stop and wait for me to finish a salvage. I didn't even have salvage rigs installed (don't think anyone's built them yet)
Fun and phat lewt was had by all, and I took away a nice Type D expander as my pick of it.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 08:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arushia
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:10:36
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Assuming that it takes about half an hour to fully salvage a level 4 mission that drops about 60 components,
Half an hour? HALF AN HOUR?
When I stop laughing wryly, I will post something more constructive.
OK...calmed down now...FULLY looting and salvaging a mission (and remember, you can choose to loot but not salvage, but you can't salvage and not loot, as you have to take the loot out BEFORE you can salvage) takes TWO HOURS. I assume that it will get faster with skills...but I don't think you're ever going to get it down to 30 minutes...and equally, those who DO "skill up" for it will be wanting more of a reward to cover that training time...
2 Hours? Are you using one salvage module with 1 level in salvaging and no tractor beams.
I flew level 4 worlds collide with my corp today, about 4 combat pilots and me in an Exequror with 2 tractors and 2 salvagers looting and salvaging while they killed.
It took us less than an hour to kill and salvage the whole Serpentis side. And we took time out to blow up the Serpentis battlestation. They never had to stop and wait for me to finish a salvage. I didn't even have salvage rigs installed (don't think anyone's built them yet)
Fun and phat lewt was had by all, and I took away a nice Type D expander as my pick of it.
Even if you took 30 minutes with the 5 of you... that's longer then 2 hours.... if you compaire to doing it solo!!!
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VeNT
Minmatar
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:14:00 -
[20]
I'm expecting rigs to be about 5-15mill range for T1, and maybe the salvaged components being 10k-100k depending on rareity. having spent a few mins ratting in 0.0 you can have quite a haul of these before you know it. if you've a gang ratting with somone dedicated to salvage its much quicker.
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Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Zirator
Times of Ancar
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:20:00 -
[21]
First of all I want to say that I haven't tried salvaging yet. Will give it a shot after the patch next thuesday if real life permits it.
But I would like to add the following to the people that complain about the time it takes to salvage a mission. EVE is a MMORPG. Ever thought about getting some friends to help you loot and salvage?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.11.30 15:37:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 30/11/2006 15:38:35
Originally by: Gariuys
Even if you took 30 minutes with the 5 of you... that's longer then 2 hours.... if you compaire to doing it solo!!!
Only one person was actually looting/salvaging, so it isn't appropriate to scale the time in that way.
However, if that person would rather be doing more level 4 missions during the extra hour or so, they could make as much as 30m in bounties, loyalty points, mission rewards (and looting without salvaging)- unless an hours' salvaging is worth more than this, I doubt many people will bother.
On the other hand, there's the potential for mission runners to sell salvagers bookmarks to completed mission locations, a la mission omber, but I'm not sure how viable this is - I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done this, and if I go back to doing level 4s I might sell some bms myself.
Assuming that we see more of the first and less of the second option occuring, I think many rigs may well end up around the 100m isk region.
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An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
Kilda Shepp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:40:00 -
[23]
I still think they will be cheaper then more expensive. The reason is demand, I don't think they will be high demand. PVPers are not going to spend another 100mil on their ship for Rigs. Just like they don't use Implants. They have 1 alt that is implanted up, but any battles or wars they do, they just don't load up the implants. I can see the same for Rigs. Unless cheap, they are not going to load up the ship with expensive equipment, unless it's their flag ship, emphasis on "SHIP", not ships. Mission runnings on the other hand will probably load up on these things no problems, no matter the price, but PVPers... unless easy to get at a cheap price they not going to buy many of them.
Which only means one thing, Manufactures will be sitting on stock, which didn't really cost anything other then "time." After all, you spent maybe 10mil on ALL the BPOs and 1mil making the Salvager I's, the rest of the material you got for free. So Time is all you're paying for. Which some people consider their time is cheap.
I was doing some looking last night. Manufactures will fill a demand. I can tell they wanted to remove some "demand" for minerals for powerful Mods. Why? So Farmers would actually have to do something instead of run a script.
Sure you could script Salvage Operations but it still requires you to kill ships, tractor beam the wrecks, salvage and repeat. That's a complex macro which requires a lot more then target an always stationary always in the same place rock and mine.
Although there is time involved, I still consider the items T1, sure they are good, any T1 item that can get 99% Armor resistance on a Prophecy is powerful but they are still T1.
Also remember BPO ME will be done, and it will not require a lot of Research to get a "good" return, ME 1 or ME 2 is all that will be needed, any more then that and you're wasting your time. I still think they will level out at a around or even sub 1mil.
As for a Salvage op in missions, just bring a good tank to take the hits and kill the rats, 2 Destroyers, both rigged with 3-4 tractors and 3-4 salvager's. Even in World Collide you should get it done relatively quick.
meh, I would believe most corps will make their own anyway, considering the cheapness of the BPO's. If anything it just opened up a new "role" in the corp. Salvage Operations.
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BBQ
Gallente
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:18:00 -
[24]
Ok, from what I have seen
Most people are trying to sell the rig components at 1m each. This puts a single rig at about 170-800m per rig (yes, one of them needs about 750 components to build).
I have so far salvaged 5 missions (2x AE, 1x GE and 2 others, it takes ages to loot them). I have 350 moduals and not even anywhere near half of what I need to build a single rig. This is going to make them a really expensive and unique item that will cost a small fortune to own. I know that the first rig I make will be for pure proffit and put up for auction as, even though I can use it, I would imagine there are people out there that have the isk to own a ship mod before everyone else.
For the price to drop the number of moduals scavenged needs to be increased OR the requirments need to drop on the BP's to make them.
----
God gave us a brain, he also gave us a voice.
Shame some people have yet to connect them.
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SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
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Posted - 2006.11.30 23:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: BBQ
Most people are trying to sell the rig components at 1m each. This puts a single rig at about 170-800m per rig (yes, one of them needs about 750 components to build).
They are selling them for 1m each because no one else is selling them... If the first person put each component up for 10mil everyone who has Salvaging would sell for 10m. The market is like a group of sheep following the first sheep that just happen to be in front.
If these are truly going to be 100+mil Mods, you're telling me out of the, 10mil ISK it takes for me to have the option to salvage and make every single rig in the game, gives me the ability to sell a single rig for a whopping 150mil and be the cheapest on the market.
Hell SIGN ME UP RIGHT NOW!
I just can't see it comeing to that, the fact it's so cheap to become a salvager, and buy the BPO's and all the skills, this just doesn't seem like these will be an expensive items. A brand new player could come in, get a donation from a friend for 10mil, buy every BPO, Every skill, the Salvager BPO and the skills, train for like 15 days, then go salvage... only to turn around in a week and sell 2-3 rigs for 250mil...
Because that is what everyone is saying.. high price because it's rare... but what makes it rare right now? The fact no one has them. People will look at this MASSIVE high profit for extremely low startup cost and will do it! That means you'll have thousands of people salvaging. Which means hundreds of thousands of components. What does that mean??? I'm sticking with 1mil sticker prices.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.01 00:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 01/12/2006 00:05:33
If prices bottom out as low as you say, then hardly anyone will bother. It seems nigh impossible to get the necessary components without running missions, and at your suggested prices anyone who can run missions will be a lot better off just doing more missions (or even mining) rather than bothering to salvage.
There may well be an opening for people willing to 'clear up' after missions, and then we might start seeing a bit of competition. I might even try that once I get the skills trained up. But even then the rigs would still have to beat mining to be worthwhile, and that pushes the prices up into the tens of millions.
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An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
Shino Tu
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2006.12.01 00:48:00 -
[27]
Its interesting that lvl 4s drop the components.
Ive run a couple of lvl 3s and not recived a single piece, yet 07 belt rats drop them 3 in 5...
Anyone else run lvl 3s and got/not gotten pieces?
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Di Jiensai
Gallente
Myster0ns
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 30/11/2006 15:38:35
On the other hand, there's the potential for mission runners to sell salvagers bookmarks to completed mission locations, a la mission omber, but I'm not sure how viable this is - I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done this, and if I go back to doing level 4s I might sell some bms myself.
Assuming that we see more of the first and less of the second option occuring, I think many rigs may well end up around the 100m isk region.
I have tried buying salvage rights in motsu, and so far had one customer, willing to recieve 2M for his wrecks. The problem is that 2M doesnt seem to be a good enough reward, for most mission runners to bother rightclicking somethin and bookmark it.
In the missions i salvaged so far, i got about 30 units of material, which at a 2M per mission is just under 100K for each component. So, probably the components will be more expensive than that (because i have to pay more isk to get salvage rights)
Now, if the scanprobes could scan for wrecks, that would be a completly diffent thing, as i see there seems to be a category for (forgot exact name) "scrap"?
If that would allow to scan for Wrecks, i wouldnt have to bother bugging people to let me salvage their mission leftovers.
---
The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix
Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues |
Di Jiensai
Gallente
Myster0ns
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shino Tu
Its interesting that lvl 4s drop the components.
Ive run a couple of lvl 3s and not recived a single piece, yet 07 belt rats drop them 3 in 5...
Anyone else run lvl 3s and got/not gotten pieces?
Most probably your mission had Mercenarys, faction navy, or drones. These wrecks are either bugged or designed not to drop salvage materials.
You can see that in the name: if it says just "blabla (wreck)" instead of (small/med/large something wreck) you can ignore it, because it wont have components.
oh, and btw, you need salvaging 3 to salvage tech2 ships, and yes, player ships do give salvage materials.
---
The Story of the Big-Bad-Nos-Domi and the Brutix
Selfproclaimed last instance on Rightousness Issues |
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Di Jiensai
Originally by: Shino Tu
Its interesting that lvl 4s drop the components.
Ive run a couple of lvl 3s and not recived a single piece, yet 07 belt rats drop them 3 in 5...
Anyone else run lvl 3s and got/not gotten pieces?
Most probably your mission had Mercenarys, faction navy, or drones. These wrecks are either bugged or designed not to drop salvage materials.
You can see that in the name: if it says just "blabla (wreck)" instead of (small/med/large something wreck) you can ignore it, because it wont have components.
oh, and btw, you need salvaging 3 to salvage tech2 ships, and yes, player ships do give salvage materials.
We did sacrifice some t2 ships just to check how they was salvaged. We got the "salvage success" message but also the "sorry no parts found" doh ...
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Ztrain
Vanguard Frontiers
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:26:00 -
[31]
At the rate that these things have been dropping by the people in gang that have been salvaging If they are not worth a couple mil a piece you can make a lot more money mining. So there really isn't much of a point of doing salvaging unless your doing it to build your own rigs for your own ships.
Z
In your safespot killin your doods! |
Kirja
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:43:00 -
[32]
Rigs are going to be extremely expensive. As other mentioned you can get 30-40 rigs from lvl 4 mission, which is what? 1/6 of needed material to build one rig? i would say more common rigs will cost 20-40 mil in a few month from now. Other popular/rare will cost more, and t2 will cost A LOT.
Its very time consuming to gather them and requirements are pretty high, i doubt a lot of newer players will go for survey 5 right from start as there are too many other useful skills to train. On the other hand they rised starting SP to 800k... so maybe i am wrong.
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Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:09:00 -
[33]
O.K i've been salvaging my ass off. These things take quite a while to build up before you have enough to build a module. Rigs are going to be expensive. I'm not spending 2 days to salvage enough to build a module to sell it at 10-20 mil rofl. However i can see mission runners thinking yay free stuff. Building a module then putting it on the market 5 mil lower than the previous order. So who knows? P.S how many **** times to I have to log in to the forums to post this? Click reply to post goes back to login, click post reply goes back to login rinse and repeat. Then! Time Flux Detected
You are going too fast! Wait a minute and try again.
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Angelina Starchild
Skroten
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:40:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Angelina Starchild on 01/12/2006 15:42:15
Fried Interface Circuit
Charred Micro Circuit
Burned Logic Circuit
Tripped Power Circuit
This is the top 4 pieces needed for all T1 rigs (in that order), however from what I've experienced they don't drop alot, atleast not where I have been.
Anyone have recieved these more often than others?
I'm currently working on a spreadsheet that in the end, it all will add up to give facts about droprates, what drops what.
Then putting it into some kind of relative formula, one should be able to get a neat list of which parts actually will be the tough ones to get.
There's also a new in-game channel named 'salvagers' with the intent on having salvage-people getting its own place to talk, share ideas, tips & tricks and team up with eachother. Teamwork is likely to be a huge factor in order to get the pieces you want.
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SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:30:00 -
[35]
I heard somewhere they are dropping the salvage skill to Survey 4, (Down from 5) but leaving Mech 5 still a requirement, this will be put in Tuesday's patch.
Anyway, It's come to my attention that Rigs may be more 0.0 then empire space. The reason is a corp mate salvaged a triple spawn Battleship and got a LOT of parts. So it might be something deep space 0.0 corps can use.
We are setting up for a Salvage run on a few DED spaces in 0.0 and hard core ratting/salvage op this weekend. After seeing the numbers for 1 spawn it might be highly profitable.
It wouldn't surprise me that CCP set it up like Ore, only in deep space can you find the best stuff. And the smaller stuff is more abundant.
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Patric Murphy
Heroes Of Blood
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:20:00 -
[36]
As far as 0.0 , drop rates arent all that much better. about 5 hours of ratting and i have only colected about 30 components, and only 1 triped power circuit. considering 2 of my BPO's need about 100 of these its not going to well.
No, i cant spell,
Yes, i have an education.
Please try to keep your responses related to what I said, not the typo's. |
Kirn Varen
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: SencneS
I heard somewhere they are dropping the salvage skill to Survey 4, (Down from 5) but leaving Mech 5 still a requirement, this will be put in Tuesday's patch.
Oh FFS - I'll *have* Survey V by Tuesday morning...
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SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 05:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kirn Varen
Originally by: SencneS
I heard somewhere they are dropping the salvage skill to Survey 4, (Down from 5) but leaving Mech 5 still a requirement, this will be put in Tuesday's patch.
Oh FFS - I'll *have* Survey V by Tuesday morning...
Well you'll love this then... Check out the patch notes for Tuesday's patch...
[list=null]The Salvaging skill requirements have been lowered to Mechanic level 3 and Survey level 3.[/list=null]
Yep go look for yourself. NOW what do people say... the fact is, these two skills are VERY VERY quick to learn even for newbies.
I'm telling you CCP put this in the game to be readily available to all players which means there WILL be a lot of people who have salvage skills. That in combination with the cheapness of all the BPOs the skills books, hell even the Salvager BPO is cheap...
I wouldn't be surprised one bit if all of a sudden the chance of getting salvage went up 100 fold.
There is no other reason why they would make cheap BPOs and Cheap skills and relatively low skill requirements if they are wanting these rigs to be 200-400mil. They have logs, they have data we can't get a hold of. Data that shows trends in the general populations buy habits, what to expect if this get put in etc. They don't just come up with something like this without looking at what they expect it to be and know the general population will follow their plan, even if we don't know what it is.
Face it, after this drastic low skill requirement and price of BPO and total ISK needed to become a full salvage expert and manufacture, these rigs where destined to be cheap items.
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Jehovah Cooper
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:10:00 -
[39]
So they couldn't have done the math before Revelations shipped? I see a lot of wishful thinking about pricing but the only people who have actually gathered real data, done the math and compared to other isk revenues have concluded rigs will be extremely expensive, dozens of mil for cheap mods and the high-end several hundred mil - so much of it suitable only for certain t2 and the faction ships. None of the information you need to figure this out was unavailable to CCP before ship so I would not be so certain they plan for rigs to be cheap. But I do have a feeling that you are right, the drop rates will increase. I guess I just want to know why they'd go about it this way when they didn't have to.
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Banni Vinda
EnfuRia
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:35:00 -
[40]
I's say its better to do it this way than have the market flooded within days. This way, CCP can slowly tweak the drop rates until they're happy. If the drop rates started out high to begin with, the rigs would instantly become very cheap. Everyone pilot and his dog would fit them to everything they owned, and so rigs wouldn't be seen as anything special.
Whatever the situation is right now, I'm sure a balance will be found. I've already seen a dev post on here (link anyone?) stating that they are watching, and will adjust the drop rates until they are happy.
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SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 22:55:00 -
[41]
This is what I based my opinion on.
Cheap BPOs
Lots of variations
Cheap Skills
Limited Rig slots even though by the looks of it, they allowed room for expansion.
3 Rigs but 7 "blank" slots...
This lead me to believe CCP was planning to have these things in the game and be very common. The only draw back to this plan was the fact the skill requirements to become a salvager was relatively high.
Now on the other hand, they are low, very low, in fact you could become a salvager in the first day you play the game (If someone gave you a couple hundred thousand isk)
What do we know about how the rigs where added.. I've listed some,
Cheap BPOs - This means they want anyone to be able to build any rig without lots of capital, (Hardly any capital to be honest) So the BPOs are worthless in themselves because anyone with 125K can buy the one they want off the NCP market.
Lots of Variations - If there was one EM, one Armor, one Weapon Rig upgrade this would would mean they are special items. But there is not, there are lots of rig variations, 76 to be exact. So you can pick which part you want to "buff" yourself. Now this means "Specialty" rigs that increase a specific aspect but a "rig" itself and with almost 100 different types, just doesn't scream specialty mod.
Cheap Skills - For under 1mil you can pick up every Rig skill. And what do they allow you to do, install and manufacture every rig in the game... BUT the Salvage Skill is 350K.. Meaning they want people to be able to equip and use rigs pretty cheaply but to get the components it's 1/3 the cost of all the rig skills combined.
Why 10 Rig slots but only activate 3 of them?? Room for expansion? Yes, but do you honestly think if rigs where 200mil a pop, you're going to spend, 2 billion ISK to fill all the rig slots on a 4mil cruiser?? I don't think so.
How do you get the parts to build rigs - You kill anything.. This requires no additional skill or even ability, you can go into a 1.0 system kill a few rats and perform salvage on them.. More importantly the only money you need to spend is the under 1mil to get the Salvager BPO, the Salvage Skill, and the mineral it takes to make 1 salvager..
How expensive is a Salvager itselve? Well considering the minerals it takes to build one they should be incredibly cheap. So why make the thing that gets you the components to build rigs so cheap? Again it's another indication they want rigs to have to build and procurement's of parts very cheaply.
Compaired to other manufactuable items how many "componants" are required? Although I haven't looked at them. There are not that many, unlike Tritanium.
Lastly low skill requirment to become a salvager - If it goes though on Tuesday, it's clear what CCP has in mind for Rigs.
There is no other reason why all of the above points to anything else then cheap or at least semi-cheap rigs.
At the moment the only thing that indicated expensive rigs is the fact the components are not dropping very much. Something CCP has said they are looking at and will adjust. However everything else apart from this one aspect screams "Cheapness"
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Nathan Grey
Gallente
Aurora Empire
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2006.12.03 05:00:00 -
[42]
I predict that in about a month the salvaged component prices will approach the 800-10k range per unit, and that rigs will go for only slightly more than the materials cost (~5-10%). I expect there to be a lot of materials out there once Salvaging gets un-pre-nerfed.
----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one.
Market domination through ingue ferrogue.
(I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Ferrosa
Gallente
Lyonesse Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 12:44:00 -
[43]
I just saw the patchnotes, they are increasing the drop rates for salvage components.
Prices will without doubt drop 
Sell your components now at higher prices
Official broker at the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange |
SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 16:49:00 -
[44]
Oh yeah they are dropping more, a lot more.
Last night I ran thought, lets test it on a level 2 mission. "Fallen Comrade"
I tanked it all the way to the Habitat (Not hard didn't even eat my shields and I'm an Armor tank) used light FoF and 5 light scout drones to control the rate death rate. (Because now... the wrecks are removed if you don't salvage em fast enough, as long as they are empty, as in don't have loot.)
I picked up 11 components. These come from mostly frigates and 1 cruiser. Yep, destined to be cheap.
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kljhglkhgfljkhf
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:07:00 -
[45]
57 MILLION SKILL POINTS?!?!?!?!?!
i hate you
**goes into corner and sulks**
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Ferrosa
Gallente
Lyonesse Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 09:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: SencneS
Oh yeah they are dropping more, a lot more.
Last night I ran thought, lets test it on a level 2 mission. "Fallen Comrade"
I tanked it all the way to the Habitat (Not hard didn't even eat my shields and I'm an Armor tank) used light FoF and 5 light scout drones to control the rate death rate. (Because now... the wrecks are removed if you don't salvage em fast enough, as long as they are empty, as in don't have loot.)
I picked up 11 components. These come from mostly frigates and 1 cruiser. Yep, destined to be cheap.
You're being mean  stop the sarcasm! It's killing my eyes 
It won't happen fast, but I think the prices of rigs will be rather low, compared to what you're saying here. A tech1 rig will not cross the 20M mark in the long run in a competitive region.
And why do you suppose they have left extra space for the rig slots? Because the devs want to look ahead and prepare themselves for the future ships... If they limit the number to 3 rig slots now, they'll have to reprogram those parts of the game, while it won't cost any effort at all now, to expand a ships number of available rig slots. Or to make a new ship with more than 3 rig slots.
Official broker at the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange |
Kazuo Ishiguro
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:27:00 -
[47]
Specialist rig ships - that sounds like a t3 sort of idea
If nothing else would make rigs more popular, that would.
Originally by: Ferrosa
I just saw the patchnotes, they are increasing the drop rates for salvage components.
Link please. I've seen two Dev posts on this issue, but afaik there's no mention of this in the patch notes.
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'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
Kazuo Ishiguro
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 16:28:00 -
[48]
Specialist rig ships - that sounds like a t3 sort of idea
If nothing else would make rigs more popular, that would.
Originally by: Ferrosa
I just saw the patchnotes, they are increasing the drop rates for salvage components.
Link please. I've seen two Dev posts on this issue, but afaik there's no mention of this in the patch notes.
--------------------------------------------
'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 17:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ferrosa
You're being mean stop the sarcasm! It's killing my eyes
You've got me wrong I've been saying they will be cheap. I did run the same mission before the patch and told someone to come salvage.
He did and claimed he only picking up 4 parts so I KNOW they increased the drop rate.
Last night I spend about an hour going from belt to belt down in 0.0 space salvaging wrecks from alliance kills.
I picked up over 80 parts total, and 6 different components. Now the problem I had was I couldn't tractor beam the wreck and I need to keep a jetcan in tow because I have to empty the wrecks before salvage.
Actually that was the most time consuming part. Often in 0.0 space the BattleShip Rats stay at least 50km away from you. So I'm MWDing 80km to get to the next wreck.
CCP BRING ON THE LARGE TRACTOR-BEAM! and allow us to tractor alliance cans!
Here is a good setup, Tanked Battle-cruiser, 6 Salvager, 1 Tractor beam. Once you actually get to the wreck, remove the loot, salvage is very quick. I could have salvaged those 80 is 1/4 of the time if I didn't have to get to the wrecks, and loot them.
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Ferrosa
Gallente
Lyonesse Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 17:48:00 -
[50]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Ferrosa
You're being mean stop the sarcasm! It's killing my eyes
You've got me wrong I've been saying they will be cheap. I did run the same mission before the patch and told someone to come salvage.
He did and claimed he only picking up 4 parts so I KNOW they increased the drop rate.
Last night I spend about an hour going from belt to belt down in 0.0 space salvaging wrecks from alliance kills.
I picked up over 80 parts total, and 6 different components. Now the problem I had was I couldn't tractor beam the wreck and I need to keep a jetcan in tow because I have to empty the wrecks before salvage.
Actually that was the most time consuming part. Often in 0.0 space the BattleShip Rats stay at least 50km away from you. So I'm MWDing 80km to get to the next wreck.
CCP BRING ON THE LARGE TRACTOR-BEAM! and allow us to tractor alliance cans!
Here is a good setup, Tanked Battle-cruiser, 6 Salvager, 1 Tractor beam. Once you actually get to the wreck, remove the loot, salvage is very quick. I could have salvaged those 80 is 1/4 of the time if I didn't have to get to the wrecks, and loot them.
Get 3 tractor beams and 3 salvagers, you'll be able to tow them in faster while you salvage... i'm at salvaging lvl 4 now and it find this a good mix
It's your own choice, offcourse, some like to salvage while they fly through them, i like to stay in a spot, tractor all of the available cans and salvage in meanwhile :)
Official broker at the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange |
Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2006.12.07 21:11:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 07/12/2006 21:17:04
I very much prefer 7 Salvagers and one Recon Probe Launcher 
It takes quite a while to pick up all the wrecks, so I usually just go for the nearby ones that aren't from structures/named npcs.
If people are supposed to be able to salvage other peoples' wrecks, they really ought to be able to activate tractor beams on them. Cans should stay as they are, though- we don't want to make life any easier for the ore thieves...
/edit: It seems I now have enough of the common components to make a decent shield rig- just a couple of hundred power circuits needed 
--------------------------------------------
'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:06:00 -
[52]
can't say, how much better salvaging has been patched.
but i still believe rigs themselves will start off at around 500mil and probably just drop to somewhere in the 200mil area, depending on popularity.
why...:
well, after such a brand new niche in the game appears, thousands of players join the fun to check it out or maybe even to be one of the first to build one of those things. but after all these days, there's still no rigs around. ergo, with this much work involved, the ones checking out the new concept dropping out of the equation etc. a single rig will still take weeks of joint effort. and lvl3/4 mission runners will want that sweat to be paid for...
and they _are_ powerful. just 15% extra shields on a passive vagabond simply results in a 15% bigger tank, for example.
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Win Tarkin
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Posted - 2006.12.08 20:55:00 -
[53]
Based on the current buy order in the market the price for a rig could easily reach 100reds of millions. This is pure calculation.
Personally I would never spend that much isk just to get like 10% better ROF on my battlecruiser when I can get that same effect by using T2 BCS. I cant imagine that ppl are willing to pay additional 100-200 mill for a rig when they are not willing to afford more then 50 mill for a decently fitted battlecruiser.
Think fo it: Ferox plus t2 stuff - 23 mill + 30-40 mill = 53-63 mill = good ship
Add 2 rigs: 150 mill + 150 mill + 63 mill (Ferox fully fitted) = 336 mill = good ship plus some add-ons that make it slightly better???
Get blown up in Otsasai or Nalvula and loosing all of it while running lvl 3 mission?
Based on what ppl are willing to pay there cant be prices higher then 3-5 mill at max for a rig. And prices will go down when more ppl flush the components on the market and the rediculous high-price-buy-orders are filled and not replaced.
And: next patch is adressing to the Salvaging. I very much believe that wrecks will drop higher number of units of salvage items. Already the skill requirement got lowered, which means every noob can start salvaging within a few days training.
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SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 21:51:00 -
[54]
That's my feeling, you can put rigs on Frigates.. There is no way anyone is going to toss 300-600mil on Frigate.
I can see them however tossing 3mil onto a frigate (1mil rigs)
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.08 22:33:00 -
[55]
just curious -- has anyone been paying 500k+ for salvaged goods? i see lots of sell orders, but i'm thinking it's the same sell orders day after day. |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 00:10:00 -
[56]
Yes, salvage drop rates are very likely going to be adjusted in next week's patch. What that adjustment is going to be is a good question.
My guess is that the drop rate for circuits will go up to match the drop rates for other components. I think that the overall drop rate is reasonable if you view it with the expectation that builders will acquire the components from the salvagers rather than harvesting them. The return on in mission salvaging is low enough compared to free space salvaging that it should keep mission farming to a minimum.
I would expect to pay between 1 and 10 million for a rig personally, with production cost around 500k in the long term. For the short term I'm not so sure.
Si non adjuvas, noces
(If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Hal Seldon
Gallente
Trader's Academy
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 06:40:00 -
[57]
Just sold a rig for 150mil (cargo expander).
I was kind of first in, first out on the markets, I think. had region-wide buy orders placed in several regions right from the day after patch day and canceled all buy orders as soon as I had enough components together - just in time before people started asking for 750k per Interface Circuit and 100k per Alloyed Trit Bar.
By grabbing and selling just the excess components lying around in stations I came back to where I started from financially, give or take the odd mil...
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2006.12.10 13:15:00 -
[58]
Ah yes, the hugely over-inflated circuit prices - there's a large buy order in Irjunen for one type at 1.3m each.
I took the opportunity to dump about 25 assorted circuits for about 30m before everyone reads the patch notes 
Demand for circuits will remain high, as so many different rigs need them, but I still think prices will fall significantly come Wednesday.
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'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 22:49:00 -
[59]
Haha, I love the people paying 1-2 mil per component. Even 300-500k is extremely high. I've been selling as fast as possible before these people realize how badly they are being ripped off. After patch I expect prices to drop substantially.
**********************************************
Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174 |
Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:38:00 -
[60]
As someone who is not yet confidentin flying level 4 missions I find salvage useful (and so far profitable).
My method is to overkill lower level missions as the salvage from lower level misson rats appears similar to higheer. I have tested this salvaging level 4s with corpmates just as a salvager and I see little difference in salvage per wreck.
My current ship - in which I fly level 2s and some level 3s is either a Hurricane with 5 AC 2 Salvagers and a tractor, or a Vexor with 2 rails and the same salvage kit. A Level 2 typically takes 10-15 mins plus a similar time to salvage. My last Pirate incursion mission yielded about 15-20 salvage items. total income from an hours level 2 mission running, including loot was in excess of 1.5million ISK plus 30ish salvage items.
Now if you regularly fly lvl4s or rat in good 0.0 this is peanuts. however in my position 1.5million per hour is acceptable. With current component prices my actual imcome is much more as I sell the circuits at silly prices to those too impatien to wait for wednesdays patch.
With increased drops from Wednesday and people in a similar positon to myself already salvaging 60 or so pieces a night I think you will see rig prices much lower than some here estimate. If the rarer items beome slight more common and the total drops increases by 50% I will happily sell rigs at 3-5 million or so each, possibly less.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2006.12.21 00:03:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 21/12/2006 00:04:06
There are still plenty of people out there paying hundreds of thousands of ISK for circuits- in Motsu, at least, I'm pretty sure that these orders were placed not before but after the last patch.
I've made a few small ones (that increase warp speed) for my own use, and they cost me about 25m each in total. I placed buy orders for components, at around 100k per circuit, and used some of my own supply - definitely a luxury rather than anything else.
I imagine that this massive demand for components is being driven by similarly-minded people who can't be bothered to salvage for themselves and have a lot of isk to throw around. If so, then this has to be one of the best times on record for new players- lots of starting skills, and easy isk as soon as you start clearing up missions, with very little needed in the way of startup funds.
I suspect that a lot of people are waiting for circuit prices to fall below a certain threshold - maybe 100k, maybe 50k; who knows? I think the components market will probably rebound as many such buyers emerge, but eventually enough people will be salvaging and prices will stabilise. I couldn't say where, though.
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'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
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