| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10761
   |
Posted - 2015.07.07 16:30:34 -
[1] - Quote
I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10767
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 02:22:37 -
[2] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Webvan wrote:I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. Dang, you're right! Or 8 year olds who think spelling now, naow, is cute.
needs moar cowbell
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10771
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 13:31:30 -
[3] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I don't like the system because as a min maxer it forces me to plan around pointless arbitrary figures that have no meaningful in game effect.
As for character differentiation, that's what overpriced digital apparel is for, and the best part is other players can actually see it.
Attributes better reflect real life. It's typical to say be a better artist than to be a better programmer. Or to be a better fictional writer than to be a better mathamatician. Otherwise there would be no such need for things like college placement tests etc.
Also EVE reflects more traditional rpg style gaming such as you find in MUD's or table top gaming (e.g dnd), not mario kart or pac man. This is far better suited for the rpg type player.
If you make a game try to be everything for everyone, you only make a game for no one. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10771
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 15:26:21 -
[4] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:Yes except in most RPGs attributes actually have an in game effect on your character and other players. A high strength character hits harder or wears heavier armor. A high agility character can ride motorcycles instead of cars, or access pathways other people can't. Those attributes meaningfully and obviously differentiate characters by power and ability.
In EVE, being in fleet with a high Perception FC does nothing for your game experience. Taking a contract from a high Charisma person has no effect. Downing boosters while you have high Willpower doesn't cut down hangovers.
I'm not saying they should. But the attributes in Eve fail to provide the RP part of RPG that attributes serve in most other titles in the genre. Many a newbro have probably been disappointed to learn that no, having higher Memory doesn't let you train more skills at once or show a cloaked ship's last known position. They're just lame training stats.
I am definitely one that believes every game I play should be very different from one another (my exp from nearly 40yrs of video gaming as well as my own projects). That being said, I find EVE to be set apart from all other games currently on the market (most being WoW clones now perhaps). I don't want every game to be the same, and I don't need or even want instant gratification.
Attributes are much like that here, such as a means to an end, and in ways reflect real life. You take that out, you have just another mario kart. Replace it with what everyone else is doing, you simply dumb the game down to just another clone of something or another.
The current system offers a challenge. It's not so simple that you can just click away and everything will just be dandy in the end. The system provides not only challenge, but consequences for our actions, or lack thereof. A mental challenge, a puzzle, even at times a paradox, that we must wrap our minds around and reason our way through.
The only real issue I have with the system currently is that while so many changes are rolling out to the game, the 1yr remap timer is a little underwhelming currently. Not at all times, I think it's a great system, but during times of rapid change it can be a little restrictive. But I'm sure as the current state of game development progresses forward, this will be just a minor issue left in the past as things balance out to their conclusion.
Is the system beloved by all? I'm sure it's not. Does it work? well some like to say quite appropriately "don't fix what's not broken". |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10774
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:46:10 -
[5] - Quote
Lucy Lopez wrote:Webvan wrote:I think this is what happens when 3 million people suddenly quit WoW and every game forum is filled with 'make this game easy naow'. Attributes aren't the problem. lol... whenever I see people talk about SP I still think 'spellpower'  As far as I can tell the attribute system is there to punish you if you have the nerve to change your mind about your skill plan 6 months after you remapped.
Yep, it has consequences. This is why I always suggest to newbies to just run with balanced attributes for a while. The first six months it doesn't matter if you lose a few days if that's what it comes to. Of course all new characters get a bonus remap, so helps quite a bit for early training.
By the time you get past that, you should have a decent handle on the game to best manage your attributes. If that comes into question, best to just run balanced, nothing wrong with that. Webbies next remap will be fairly balanced most likely, which I have ready but not until my current skill que gets to that point, which between now and then saves me about a week. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10777
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 23:00:23 -
[6] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:
Even now you fail to acknowledge the impact attributes have on game, take into consideration implants too, and see how CCP fails to breake the system because it is in fact good, all encompasing feature. Try to simple down the implants too, modules, or even ships. You can simpoe down everything, into an flat, uninteresting plain where everybody can jump at the same height.
The game you are describing is called Pong.
This thought has touched my mind at a number of spots in this thread. I may need a shrink now.
Actually, probably screams SWG between CU and NGE. Most/all consequences were removed from the game and the skill tree system turned into basicaly a pre-defined class system.
It died. dead - dead - dead. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10816
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 23:35:21 -
[7] - Quote
Well what it really comes down to is some people don't like the idea of having the choice to just balance out their attributes on their own, and/or that others choose not to, but rather to have mommy CCP remove it and by default balance out everyone's attributes by such a removal.
So then all training time becomes balanced, which they could already do by just balancing their attributes right now. It also puts CCP in a no win situation, since now they will complain that training is too slow and want it all accelerated as if they had max attributes in everything. CCP is in a far better position by just letting us decide for ourselves, lest it become the slippery slope. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10816
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 00:36:48 -
[8] - Quote
Now if this were to be an intended discussion about improving it rather than removing it, I'd say..
- Add a couple points on max cap per attribute.
- Add in some extra points to spend into attributes.
- The catch is, as you start to reach max cap on an attribute, it costs more points.
In this way, you can put in a couple more attribute points into a single attribute, but also you can choose to simply balance all your stats so that you wind up with a little better training speed across the board. This simply does not remove consequences, but gives a greater flexibility in decision making.
I'm not saying that it's what I want, but simply a possible change that is logical to the system while still retaining the consequences. |
| |
|