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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1260
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:00:10 -
[31] - Quote
it has 4 mids, could probably dual prop it pretty well. plus once you get into brawl range you can swap into a different mode and your AB speed won't change.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
CODE.
13564
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 20:02:34 -
[32] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox.
...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity?
Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
419
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Posted - 2015.07.07 20:07:17 -
[33] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox.
So shovels and pails should do the exact same thing?
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Hal Morsh
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
326
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 21:35:31 -
[34] - Quote
I was going to be snarky about afterburner PVP fits, because everyone harassed me about afterburner fits in the past. But they have their uses in pvp besides oversizing and dual proping.
And if you are going to ask, don't bother getting me started on an example of a situation involving an afterburner, just don't. You do not want to open that can of worms.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2015.07.07 22:07:57 -
[35] - Quote
I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days.
So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid.
It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
718
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 22:13:25 -
[36] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days.
So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid.
It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's because your ******* afterburner would make it too easy for you to fly under the guns of anything bigger than you! Why can't you understand that this monster of a destroyer already is strong enough as it is?? Why can't you just try to deal with the situation like a mature and thinking person, instead of argueing about what you want and how much you do not give a **** about what's good for the game!
Teenager! 
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
718
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 22:14:24 -
[37] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that. Then why did you create this trainwreck of a thread in the first place ??
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10640
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 01:31:59 -
[38] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Jack Hayson wrote:Even worse... you are forced to use hybrids on it or you won't be taking advantage of the damage bonus!  So if you want to use e.g. lasers you need to use a totally different ship. That's totally unfair and badly designed because I want to use lasers!!11 Awesome joke, really smart; you're clearly well educated. Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.
Point, Awesome Point 
=]|[=
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter
Absolute Zero.
909
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Posted - 2015.07.08 13:53:19 -
[39] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.
> T3Ds
> No imbalance
Yeah.
I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread. |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 15:27:14 -
[40] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. > T3Ds > No imbalance Yeah. I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread.
I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots
Black Legion.
328
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 15:46:56 -
[41] - Quote
Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24156
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:04:26 -
[42] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. > T3Ds > No imbalance Yeah. I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread. I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems. No dumber than your original post tbh.
Are you a CAM alt perchance?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:19:20 -
[43] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;)
Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests.
Apologies to Hecate users; I tried. |
Sarayu Wyvern
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:21:47 -
[44] - Quote
Stop complaining.
Apply MWD.
Maximum Gallente.
Destroy all with plasma.
Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24160
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:40:40 -
[45] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:SFM Hobb3s wrote:Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;) Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests. Apologies to Hecate users, I tried; too many stupid people trolling this forum. Let me get this right, the people who disagree with you for various, and valid, reasons are stupid trolls?
Get real.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Wacktopia
Noir.
No Not Believing
798
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:43:30 -
[46] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!
So... why?
Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus.
I've not fit or flown one to know though.
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
490
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:46:31 -
[47] - Quote
Someone post fit/stats for MWD/scram/dual web blaster Hecate with AAR hull tank?
This ship is not for sig tanking cruisers, it's for catching things and murdering them with blaster-Deimos equivalent DPS. |
Sarayu Wyvern
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:50:52 -
[48] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!
So... why?
Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though.
Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps.
Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)
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Bia Bri
The Council
Evictus.
8
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Posted - 2015.07.08 16:59:14 -
[49] - Quote
Balance and symmetry are not the same thing.
Yes, it is true that MWD bonus are not symmetric across all T3 destroyers. This doesn't mean they are imbalanced (amongst themselves; they are pretty clearly overpowered proportionately to other hull classes). It just means they are different ships.
If the only differences among corresponding ship classes were what weapon type they have bonused and what tank type they use then there would be little point to developing a wide library of ships in Eve.
The point of no MWD bonus on the Hecate is specifically TO make it different than the rest of the T3Ds. It is supposed to feel different, fly different, and be fit different. It's a different ship! |
Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:34:15 -
[50] - Quote
Wacktopia wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!
So... why?
Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though.
Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable. |
Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
Black Legion.
359
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Posted - 2015.07.08 17:49:19 -
[51] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Nidal Fervor wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. **** the rest! **** balance! **** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. The Svipul, Jackdaw and Confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or close to full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through.
Oh like being forced to use Scourge missiles on a Caldari missile boat....because the bonuses are for kinetic...
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Gren Alderon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.08 22:43:50 -
[52] - Quote
Sarayu Wyvern wrote:Wacktopia wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!
So... why?
Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though. Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps.
It's crap. I've tested it in brawling situations.
Just look at the efficiency of hecate on zboard, just 74%, the lowest of T3 destroyers by a large margin. |
Solairen
Matsuko Holding
262
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 00:07:07 -
[53] - Quote
I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point.
The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus.
Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence.
The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue.
The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access.
Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
762
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 01:00:27 -
[54] - Quote
First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one.
A child. Not even funny anymore...
Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
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Darth Magus
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
4
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Posted - 2015.07.09 03:31:33 -
[55] - Quote
Solairen wrote:I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point.
The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus.
Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence.
The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue.
The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access.
Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case.
That is wrong. The T3D's should be looked at as the whole ship (with 3 diff modes) not just modes alone.
As someone posted above there is difference between symmetry and balance.
If all t3D's were symmetric - everyone would get the same bonuses, except they would be symmetric (bonus to weapon range in Sniper, bonus to AB/MWD speed + agi in Prop and bonus to 2 families of Tank in Def)
..but that is not the case.
To the OP - HTFU, go ahead fly other "better" T3D's, I'll still wreck you in an AB Hecate.
/close thread |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
193
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 06:11:36 -
[56] - Quote
Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit?
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 06:31:04 -
[57] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one.
A child. Not even funny anymore...
Really, got a quote?
Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable.
I'm only stating facts and figures; sorry to spoil your parade. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
489
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 07:08:08 -
[58] - Quote
No offense to the OP, but I'm still trying to figure out why the hell the damn things even got put in Eve in the first place, and people are whining that one of these ***holes is not as OP'ed as the other three ***holes?
Don't get me wrong, I've already found some use for the Jackdaw, but honestly what the hell was CCP thinking? When T3 cruisers are still and have always been a wreck and instead of figuring out what to do about them, they tweak some numbers on the defensive subs and then proceed to release more T3's. The D3's are fun little bastards, but I still have to ask, "why are they here?" Maybe I missed a dev blog or some random reddit shenanigans explaining this?
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Nidal Fervor
State War Academy
Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 09:07:09 -
[59] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit?
You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
764
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 09:14:08 -
[60] - Quote
Nidal Fervor wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode).
You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to oill anything bigger than your ship.
How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one?
Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
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