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Gallente tactical destroyer - Forced to use MWD setups not fun.

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Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:29:28 - [1] - Quote If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners. But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison. I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage. For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time. I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 692	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:33:35 - [2] - Quote Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:36:04 - [3] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 692	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:37:19 - [4] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS! So... why? It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Ivant Sumboodi Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:39:11 - [5] - Quote He doesn't want the bloom I'm guessing.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 203	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:39:36 - [6] - Quote Even worse... you are forced to use hybrids on it or you won't be taking advantage of the damage bonus! So if you want to use e.g. lasers you need to use a totally different ship. That's totally unfair and badly designed because I want to use lasers!!11
Hengle Teron Explosions Delivered with Love 54674	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:41:03 - [7] - Quote How about, even after the fact hybrid weapons pack a stronger punch than projectiles, Hecate is still given the dps of 10 turrets, while Svipul gets only a dps of 9.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:43:20 - [8] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. The svipul, jackdaw and confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or almost full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through.
Yarda Black Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 755	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:44:57 - [9] - Quote You can turn this around and ask yourself why not every "Minmatar" pilot or one of the other factions isnt here complaining about "their" tactical destroyer not having a MWD bonus. Although I see your point (but don't agree with it because AB's are a very different animal in my book), I'd rather see alot more difference between between all the factions. Its all starting to feel a bit bland. Why train Gallente if Caldari has the same options in ships and you already have those skills trained? But thats a slightly different discussion...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:45:13 - [10] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Even worse... you are forced to use hybrids on it or you won't be taking advantage of the damage bonus! So if you want to use e.g. lasers you need to use a totally different ship. That's totally unfair and badly designed because I want to use lasers!!11 Awesome joke, really smart; you're clearly well educated. Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:47:16 - [11] - Quote Yarda Black wrote: You can turn this around and ask yourself why not every "Minmatar" pilot or one of the other factions isnt here complaining about "their" tactical destroyer not having a MWD bonus. Although I see your point (but don't agree with it because AB's are a very different animal in my book), I'd rather see alot more difference between between all the factions. Its all starting to feel a bit bland. Why train Gallente if Caldari has the same options in ships and you already have those skills trained? But thats a slightly different discussion... Firstly, the minmatar vessel does have a MWD bonus, to its defense mode. Secondly, it effectively also has an MWD bonus to its propulsion mode because it gets a 66% velocity and 33% inertia bonus; the velocity bonus is applicable if you fit MWD or afterburner. If you still don't understand, the other vessels don't need a MWD bonus because they get a direct speed bonus, which is the same, only it works with any propulsion module. This is what the hecate should have had, or a direct 1mn afterburner/1mn mwd bonus, if they really want to stop oversized afterburners on it.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1456	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:47:20 - [12] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. The Svipul, Jackdaw and Confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or close to full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through. "Hecate should also be given bonuses to projectiles and missiles, the other have it so why not the Gallente one, this is just stupid".
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 693	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:48:51 - [13] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. The Svipul, Jackdaw and Confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or close to full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through. i hate my phone... The reasons why you don't like this change are, like you already told, are: You don't like it how it is, because you can't do what you want. It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Arla Sarain 537	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:50:55 - [14] - Quote All the AFs are forced into MWDs as well? And the Claw? I mean AB fits for all of these do exist and are very potent. Hecate is capable of dual prop, no? Gimped or not gimped, the option is there. Infact it's a far more practical option, than say the double damage bonus to rockets on a goddamn Buzzard, or an optimal bonus to projectiles on a Cheetah that has 15MW base PG. I fly my Cheetahs with artillery. Cos.
Hengle Teron Explosions Delivered with Love 54674	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:51:14 - [15] - Quote And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:52:36 - [16] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit. Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off.
Yarda Black Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 755	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:56:21 - [17] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Firstly, the minmatar vessel does have a MWD bonus, to its defense mode. WTF. I'm supposed to know that. So much for my reputation as an elitist [bad word] ....
Hengle Teron Explosions Delivered with Love 54676	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:56:28 - [18] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit. Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off. No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus!
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:57:11 - [19] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit. Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off. No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus! Good for you little man. Now run along, I think your mother is calling you.
Miomeifeng Alduin Lithonauts Inc. 100	Posted - 2015.07.07 14:57:16 - [20] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners. But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison. I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage. For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time. I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style. So, if i want to use a Loki, i have to use projectile weapons? the bonusses should also be for hybrids and lazors!!! it's not fun that i have to use projectiles but can't choose lasers! Different ships, different bonusses. Use them as intended or dont whine about them ;)
Hengle Teron Explosions Delivered with Love 54676	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:00:50 - [21] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit. Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off. No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus! Good for you little man. Now run along, I think your mother is calling you. Haha. So, that's what you think about people with your attitude.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:01:23 - [22] - Quote Miomeifeng Alduin wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners. But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison. I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage. For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time. I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style. So, if i want to use a Loki, i have to use projectile weapons? the bonusses should also be for hybrids and lazors!!! it's not fun that i have to use projectiles but can't choose lasers! Different ships, different bonusses. Use them as intended or dont whine about them ;) I keep hearing this irrational argument. All tactical destroyers except for the gallente version get the option of using afterburner or MWD, because there propulsion mode bonuses are flexible. The gallente version has a very inflexible bonus, allowing benefit only to MWD's and making use of afterburners pointless. That is not balanced. That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 696	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:09:20 - [23] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit. Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off. No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus! Good for you little man. Now run along, I think your mother is calling you. The irony! It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Masaaq PYRO MANIACS A Band Apart. 12	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:14:08 - [24] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Miomeifeng Alduin wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners. But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison. I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage. For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time. I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style. So, if i want to use a Loki, i have to use projectile weapons? the bonusses should also be for hybrids and lazors!!! it's not fun that i have to use projectiles but can't choose lasers! Different ships, different bonusses. Use them as intended or dont whine about them ;) I keep hearing this irrational argument. All tactical destroyers except for the gallente version get the option of using afterburner or MWD, because their propulsion mode bonuses are flexible. The gallente version has a very inflexible bonus, allowing benefit only to MWD's and making use of afterburners pointless. That is not balanced. That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day. Why did you even bother to start this thread? The Hecate is the only tactical destroyer to receive three bonuses while in propulsion mode. It also has a bonus to armour resists, hull resists and a reduction to armour rep duration, meaning that you can run a tier two rep like an ancillary rep (in terms of rep per sec). These are huge advantages over the others, and far better than the Svipul's shield and armour bonuses. It is good that you have decided to stop responding logically though, as that clearly was not working for you.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24131	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:15:44 - [25] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day. For it to be the last time, there has to have been previous instances of it Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Masaaq PYRO MANIACS A Band Apart. 12	Posted - 2015.07.07 15:17:07 - [26] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day. For it to be the last time, there has to have been previous instances of it Spot on, sir.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3808	Posted - 2015.07.07 17:30:07 - [27] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. They still get bonuses. Quite a lot of them. Oh god.
Mizhir Matari Exodus The Camel Empire 74488	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:27:08 - [28] - Quote Jeez, When do people learn to provide feedback when they actually ask for feedback rather than on the god damn patch day? One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13564	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:50:41 - [29] - Quote It's almost like different ships are different. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 648	Posted - 2015.07.07 19:58:53 - [30] - Quote The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. Roles imo should be removed from most ships in EVE (perhaps the bonuses can be placed in rigs) - after all why shouldn't I be able to slap hard points onto an orca or turn a tempest into a giant mining barge? The limitation for ship customization should be hull and mod size. What about the all holy ship balance? Well its a sand box - or at least it is supposed to be a sand box -- in a real sand box balance is dictated by the players, not the devs. Right now CCP is trying to nerf drone boats and buff missiles - which is just an example of the endless neff/buff cycle that ccp engages in. CCP never achieves balance and only creates new flavors of the month. It would be better for ccp to break the cycle and let the players create the balance. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1260	Posted - 2015.07.07 20:00:10 - [31] - Quote it has 4 mids, could probably dual prop it pretty well. plus once you get into brawl range you can swap into a different mode and your AB speed won't change. @ChainsawPlankto
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13564	Posted - 2015.07.07 20:02:34 - [32] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Harrison Tato Yamato Holdings 419	Posted - 2015.07.07 20:07:17 - [33] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. So shovels and pails should do the exact same thing?
Hal Morsh Aliastra Gallente Federation 326	Posted - 2015.07.07 21:35:31 - [34] - Quote I was going to be snarky about afterburner PVP fits, because everyone harassed me about afterburner fits in the past. But they have their uses in pvp besides oversizing and dual proping. And if you are going to ask, don't bother getting me started on an example of a situation involving an afterburner, just don't. You do not want to open that can of worms. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:07:57 - [35] - Quote I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days. So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid. It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 718	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:13:25 - [36] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days. So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid. It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's because your ***** afterburner would make it too easy for you to fly under the guns of anything bigger than you! Why can't you understand that this monster of a destroyer already is strong enough as it is?? Why can't you just try to deal with the situation like a mature and thinking person, instead of argueing about what you want and how much you do not give a ** about what's good for the game! Teenager! It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 718	Posted - 2015.07.07 22:14:24 - [37] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that. Then why did you create this trainwreck of a thread in the first place ?? It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 10640	Posted - 2015.07.08 01:31:59 - [38] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Jack Hayson wrote: Even worse... you are forced to use hybrids on it or you won't be taking advantage of the damage bonus! So if you want to use e.g. lasers you need to use a totally different ship. That's totally unfair and badly designed because I want to use lasers!!11 Awesome joke, really smart; you're clearly well educated. Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. Point, Awesome Point =]\|[=
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 909	Posted - 2015.07.08 13:53:19 - [39] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. > T3Ds > No imbalance Yeah. I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.08 15:27:14 - [40] - Quote Barrogh Habalu wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. > T3Ds > No imbalance Yeah. I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread. I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems.
SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 328	Posted - 2015.07.08 15:46:56 - [41] - Quote Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24156	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:04:26 - [42] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Barrogh Habalu wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance. > T3Ds > No imbalance Yeah. I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread. I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems. No dumber than your original post tbh. Are you a CAM alt perchance? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:19:20 - [43] - Quote SFM Hobb3s wrote: Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;) Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests. Apologies to Hecate users; I tried.
Sarayu Wyvern Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:21:47 - [44] - Quote Stop complaining. Apply MWD. Maximum Gallente. Destroy all with plasma. Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24160	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:40:40 - [45] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: SFM Hobb3s wrote: Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;) Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests. Apologies to Hecate users, I tried; too many stupid people trolling this forum. Let me get this right, the people who disagree with you for various, and valid, reasons are stupid trolls? Get real. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Wacktopia Noir. No Not Believing 798	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:43:30 - [46] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS! So... why? Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though. Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 490	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:46:31 - [47] - Quote Someone post fit/stats for MWD/scram/dual web blaster Hecate with AAR hull tank? This ship is not for sig tanking cruisers, it's for catching things and murdering them with blaster-Deimos equivalent DPS.
Sarayu Wyvern Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:50:52 - [48] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS! So... why? Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though. Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps. Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)
Bia Bri The Council Evictus. 8	Posted - 2015.07.08 16:59:14 - [49] - Quote Balance and symmetry are not the same thing. Yes, it is true that MWD bonus are not symmetric across all T3 destroyers. This doesn't mean they are imbalanced (amongst themselves; they are pretty clearly overpowered proportionately to other hull classes). It just means they are different ships. If the only differences among corresponding ship classes were what weapon type they have bonused and what tank type they use then there would be little point to developing a wide library of ships in Eve. The point of no MWD bonus on the Hecate is specifically TO make it different than the rest of the T3Ds. It is supposed to feel different, fly different, and be fit different. It's a different ship!
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.08 17:34:15 - [50] - Quote Wacktopia wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS! So... why? Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though. Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable.
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 359	Posted - 2015.07.08 17:49:19 - [51] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners. Why? Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. The Svipul, Jackdaw and Confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or close to full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through. Oh like being forced to use Scourge missiles on a Caldari missile boat....because the bonuses are for kinetic...
Gren Alderon Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.07.08 22:43:50 - [52] - Quote Sarayu Wyvern wrote: Wacktopia wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS! So... why? Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus. I've not fit or flown one to know though. Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps. It's crap. I've tested it in brawling situations. Just look at the efficiency of hecate on zboard, just 74%, the lowest of T3 destroyers by a large margin.
Solairen Matsuko Holding 262	Posted - 2015.07.09 00:07:07 - [53] - Quote I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point. The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus. Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence. The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue. The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access. Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 762	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:00:27 - [54] - Quote First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one. A child. Not even funny anymore... Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Darth Magus Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan 4	Posted - 2015.07.09 03:31:33 - [55] - Quote Solairen wrote: I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point. The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus. Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence. The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue. The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access. Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case. That is wrong. The T3D's should be looked at as the whole ship (with 3 diff modes) not just modes alone. As someone posted above there is difference between symmetry and balance. If all t3D's were symmetric - everyone would get the same bonuses, except they would be symmetric (bonus to weapon range in Sniper, bonus to AB/MWD speed + agi in Prop and bonus to 2 families of Tank in Def) ..but that is not the case. To the OP - HTFU, go ahead fly other "better" T3D's, I'll still wreck you in an AB Hecate. /close thread
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 193	Posted - 2015.07.09 06:11:36 - [56] - Quote Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 06:31:04 - [57] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one. A child. Not even funny anymore... Really, got a quote? Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable. I'm only stating facts and figures; sorry to spoil your parade.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 489	Posted - 2015.07.09 07:08:08 - [58] - Quote No offense to the OP, but I'm still trying to figure out why the hell the damn things even got put in Eve in the first place, and people are whining that one of these *holes is not as OP'ed as the other three *holes? Don't get me wrong, I've already found some use for the Jackdaw, but honestly what the hell was CCP thinking? When T3 cruisers are still and have always been a wreck and instead of figuring out what to do about them, they tweak some numbers on the defensive subs and then proceed to release more T3's. The D3's are fun little bastards, but I still have to ask, "why are they here?" Maybe I missed a dev blog or some random reddit shenanigans explaining this? "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:07:09 - [59] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode).
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 764	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:14:08 - [60] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to oill anything bigger than your ship. How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one? Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:16:53 - [61] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to oill anything bigger than your ship. How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one? MWD is bad enough because it allows you to get into range? If you couldn't get into range, this ship would be useless with blasters. Obviously that's how you'd prefer it. You've given yourself away, you just don't want this ship to be decent.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 764	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:18:11 - [62] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one. A child. Not even funny anymore... Really, got a quote? Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable. I'm only stating facts and figures; sorry to spoil your parade. You prove me right and are too immature to realize it. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 764	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:22:46 - [63] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to oill anything bigger than your ship. How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one? MWD is bad enough because it allows you to get into range? If you couldn't get into range, this ship would be useless with blasters. Obviously that's how you'd prefer it. You've given yourself away, you just don't want this ship to be decent. LOL YES OF COURSE How old are you, child? Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Lan Wang V I R I I 928	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:33:09 - [64] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! caring about anything but my own wants! you're one of my favourites EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design**
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:39:46 - [65] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to oill anything bigger than your ship. How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one? MWD is bad enough because it allows you to get into range? If you couldn't get into range, this ship would be useless with blasters. Obviously that's how you'd prefer it. You've given yourself away, you just don't want this ship to be decent. LOL YES OF COURSE How old are you, child? Dude makes the same insult over and over; thinks he is funny. Sad man.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 766	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:56:06 - [66] - Quote I am not joking at all, but I am making fun of your childishness. You are just too immature to realize the whole situation. I suggest you talk to an adult who will explain you that this whole thread sounds like you're below 25 and used to whining to get what you want! That is no joke, sadly. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 766	Posted - 2015.07.09 09:57:01 - [67] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! ** caring about anything but my own wants! you're one of my favourites Me? Why thank you! Want to make out later tonight? Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 10:29:25 - [68] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: I am not joking at all, but I am making fun of your childishness. You are just too immature to realize the whole situation. I suggest you talk to an adult who will explain you that this whole thread sounds like you're below 25 and used to whining to get what you want! That is no joke, sadly. I'm not the one writing in caps lock using smiley faces everywhere, and asking people if they want to make out. Cya kiddo.
Lan Wang V I R I I 930	Posted - 2015.07.09 10:31:35 - [69] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. ** the rest! balance! caring about anything but my own wants! you're one of my favourites Me? Why thank you! Want to make out later tonight? i thought you'd never ask EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design**
Lan Wang V I R I I 930	Posted - 2015.07.09 10:32:42 - [70] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: I am not joking at all, but I am making fun of your childishness. You are just too immature to realize the whole situation. I suggest you talk to an adult who will explain you that this whole thread sounds like you're below 25 and used to whining to get what you want! That is no joke, sadly. I'm not the one writing in caps lock using smiley faces everywhere, and asking people if they want to make out. Cya kiddo. aww thats sweet, someone's jealous me thinks EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Gimme Sake State War Academy Caldari State 193	Posted - 2015.07.09 10:44:02 - [71] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). It's the only T3 destroyer that forces you to use a MWD or be gimped, which in the case of the hecate, means really gimped. It is a brawling boat designed with blaster+mwd+scram combo in mind not a long point kite ship like the other t3ds. If you want one of those, nothing stops you from jumping inside a svipul or confessor. "Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:13:48 - [72] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). It's the only T3 destroyer that forces you to use a MWD or be gimped, which in the case of the hecate, means really gimped. It is a brawling boat designed with blaster+mwd+scram combo in mind not a long point kite ship like the other t3ds. If you want one of those, nothing stops you from jumping inside a svipul or confessor. One step ahead of you I don't want a long point kite ship btw. I just want to be able to use afterburners on a hecate without being gimped by my choice.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1188	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:29:30 - [73] - Quote Hecate is gallente and doesn't have a drone bay even... Even the Algos has 35mbit and is T1, so the hecate should have 50mbit atleast :3
Lan Wang V I R I I 931	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:36:45 - [74] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Hecate is gallente and doesn't have a drone bay even... Even the Algos has 35mbit and is T1, so the hecate should have 50mbit atleast :3 having drones flying around aimlessly is not tactical EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1189	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:41:32 - [75] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Hecate is gallente and doesn't have a drone bay even... Even the Algos has 35mbit and is T1, so the hecate should have 50mbit atleast :3 having drones flying around aimlessly is not tactical Hecate only got some 845dps tops in a budget fit, it NEEDS the drones to get to 1k without resorting to polarized guns, even though it's gallente. Maybe Hecate with polarized guns should not lose resists to make it more balanced.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:51:10 - [76] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Hecate is gallente and doesn't have a drone bay even... Even the Algos has 35mbit and is T1, so the hecate should have 50mbit atleast :3 having drones flying around aimlessly is not tactical Hecate only got some 845dps tops in a budget fit, it NEEDS the drones to get to 1k without resorting to polarized guns, even though it's gallente. Maybe Hecate with polarized guns should not lose resists to make it more balanced. Go away troll.
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 6617	Posted - 2015.07.09 13:12:50 - [77] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 6617	Posted - 2015.07.09 13:17:07 - [78] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). It's the only T3 destroyer that forces you to use a MWD or be gimped, which in the case of the hecate, means really gimped. It is a brawling boat designed with blaster+mwd+scram combo in mind not a long point kite ship like the other t3ds. If you want one of those, nothing stops you from jumping inside a svipul or confessor. One step ahead of you I don't want a long point kite ship btw. I just wanted to be able to use afterburners on a hecate without being gimped because I didn't take MWD. Even if an afterburner bonus was given, the hecate would still be the worst performing T3 destroyer, as it currently is; check kb stats, worst by far. Sorry, but that doesn't mean anything. The Hecate's been around for about three minutes. People are still figuring out what it's capable of, theorycrafting and the like, trying things that no one is thinking of. Meanwhile, a lot of people already have a feel for the other three. Give it time. KB stats say nothing. For one thing, you have no real idea what the people using it, killing or dying with it one way or the other, are actually capable of. Maybe they're just all terrible with destroyers. Killboards say nothing about what the ship is capable of, and very little about what a player is capable of. Killboards are little more than a pissing contest, and putting any stock in them is going to gimp your own capabilities. Be creative, be your own player, do something the others haven't considered yet. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 6617	Posted - 2015.07.09 13:22:03 - [79] - Quote Having just gone over the Hecate bonuses in-game, I can say this much conclusively: Anyone that knows what they're doing in an Enyo is going to have a splendid time with this ship. Anyone that doesn't have the stomach for brawling need not apply. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Specia1 K State War Academy Caldari State 91	Posted - 2015.07.09 13:29:48 - [80] - Quote OP is noodles.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1191	Posted - 2015.07.09 13:51:41 - [81] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Go away troll. Implying the OP was not...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 14:12:05 - [82] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now.
Syrilian Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 115	Posted - 2015.07.09 14:15:03 - [83] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Nope, still makes sense. No one is forcing you to use an MWD. You aren't force to take advantage of anything. You can either use it or not.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 777	Posted - 2015.07.09 14:20:47 - [84] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Context is irrelevant for this snippet, because it stands on it's own quite fine. You used "being forced" wrongly and I guess you never REALLY have been forced to do anything considering your childish, immature, self entitled behaviour. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Portmanteau Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2015.07.09 14:31:55 - [85] - Quote Gimme Sake wrote: Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit? notsureifserious
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24184	Posted - 2015.07.09 15:10:17 - [86] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode By that measure I'm forced to use an active armour tank on my Myrmidon or else I'm not taking advantage of the armour repair bonus... oh wait no I'm not; shield tanking a Myrm works quite nicely. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 15:27:48 - [87] - Quote Sure sure. We'll see who is right in the end; you all go on trolling. Give it a few weeks and see how the hecate is doing then. Killboard stats have hecate as the worst of the T3 destroyers by a mile. I knew it would be before it was even released; that ship has numerous issues that hold it back from being a great ship. Until then, not using that ship is a great option; one I shall be using.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 658	Posted - 2015.07.09 15:31:33 - [88] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. No they are not a necessity. They are a crutch for folk with no imagination. The question is - in a sandbox, who should decide what role a ship fills? The devs or the players? Do you really think in a sandbox where there were no roles that there would be uniformity? No, there would still be logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . It would just be up to the players to make the roles from generic hulls. of course the problem is that some folk just want content spoon fed to them. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 658	Posted - 2015.07.09 15:36:42 - [89] - Quote Harrison Tato wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. So shovels and pails should do the exact same thing? With enough time and money I could definitely turn a shovel into a pail and back, just as if I had the time money and inclination I could turn an aircraft carrier into a cruise ship. Ofc there maybe inefficiencies but so what? An orca may not be the best battle ship platform because its big and slow due to its size, but because its so big, with enough isk you should certainly be able to send it into a dry dock to fit hard points to mount any number of guns or missile turrets. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Lan Wang V I R I I 948	Posted - 2015.07.09 15:37:45 - [90] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. No they are not a necessity. They are a crutch for folk with no imagination. The question is - in a sandbox, who should decide what role a ship fills? The devs or the players? Do you really think in a sandbox where there were no roles that there would be uniformity? No, there would still be logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . It would just be up to the players to make the roles from generic hulls. of course the problem is that some folk just want content spoon fed to them. being supplied a ship that can do a specialist job is not being spoonfed EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 16:41:41 - [91] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. No they are not a necessity. They are a crutch for folk with no imagination. The question is - in a sandbox, who should decide what role a ship fills? The devs or the players? Do you really think in a sandbox where there were no roles that there would be uniformity? No, there would still be logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . It would just be up to the players to make the roles from generic hulls. of course the problem is that some folk just want content spoon fed to them. being supplied a ship that can do a specialist job is not being spoonfed In what way is it a specialist? Because its bonus limit it to MWD only unless you want to have really gimped speed? The other T3's can use MWD and afterburners very effectively; you call being pigeonholed into MWD by bad bonus design being specialised?
Paxx Mandragoran Rapid Withdrawal 7	Posted - 2015.07.09 17:08:54 - [92] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Even if an afterburner bonus was given, the hecate would still be the worst performing T3 destroyer, as it currently is; check kb stats, worst by far. For now, those KB stats are apples to oranges. If the Hecate wasn't performing worse than the others at this point it would be a big red flag. First, People are still learning to use the dang things. Some will figure out fits/strategies that work well for them and will continue to use them, but at higher efficiency. And some will decide that the hull doesn't fit their style and will go back to other ships and stop sucking in the Hecate. Both of those factors will increase the efficiency. And there is a the small matter of skill training. A lot of those losses were pilots flying with the Gal Tactical Destroyer skill at level 3, and nobody has level 5 yet. That isn't a huge issue, but those bonuses to damage and application can and do make a difference in some fights.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16382	Posted - 2015.07.09 17:21:53 - [93] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode And? You can still fit an AB on it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 375	Posted - 2015.07.09 17:31:11 - [94] - Quote Better not tell the OP that AF are just as common with AB and dont take advantage of sig reduction bonus. OP. Learn to be creative, i can almost garauntee if you exert a smidge of mental capacity, you can make an ab fit work just fine. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3812	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:04:59 - [95] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Are you really so dumb that you think you can't fly a T3 destroyer without utilizing every single one of its bonuses? You fit the ship to do a task, you fly the ship in an appropriate way to complete the task. If your strategy doesn't require use of the propulsion mode, then you simply ignore it and focus on the other two modes which are available. Cool! That's up to 33% more uptime on the things which are useful. Oh god.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 783	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:15:09 - [96] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Lan Wang wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. No they are not a necessity. They are a crutch for folk with no imagination. The question is - in a sandbox, who should decide what role a ship fills? The devs or the players? Do you really think in a sandbox where there were no roles that there would be uniformity? No, there would still be logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . It would just be up to the players to make the roles from generic hulls. of course the problem is that some folk just want content spoon fed to them. being supplied a ship that can do a specialist job is not being spoonfed In what way is it a specialist? Because its bonus limit it to MWD only unless you want to have really gimped speed? The other T3's can use MWD and afterburners very effectively; you call being pigeonholed into MWD by bad bonus design being specialised? They didn't give it the MWD only bonuses because it is "specialised" - it really does nothing special. They gave it the MWD only bonus to stop people using 10mn afterburners, which they should have done another way. We clearly see how you have left this topic completely behind you. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 377	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:21:34 - [97] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Are you really so dumb that you think you can't fly a T3 destroyer without utilizing every single one of its bonuses? You fit the ship to do a task, you fly the ship in an appropriate way to complete the task. If your strategy doesn't require use of the propulsion mode, then you simply ignore it and focus on the other two modes which are available. Cool! That's up to 33% more uptime on the things which are useful. Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:33:53 - [98] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode And? You can still fit an AB on it. Tried it, it's not a good idea, there are much better T3 destroyers for that; all of the others.
Syrilian Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 116	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:35:22 - [99] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode And? You can still fit an AB on it. Tried it, it's not a good idea, there are much better T3 destroyers for that; all of the others. Then fly those.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:36:12 - [100] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Riot Girl wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Are you really so dumb that you think you can't fly a T3 destroyer without utilizing every single one of its bonuses? You fit the ship to do a task, you fly the ship in an appropriate way to complete the task. If your strategy doesn't require use of the propulsion mode, then you simply ignore it and focus on the other two modes which are available. Cool! That's up to 33% more uptime on the things which are useful. Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance!
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:37:17 - [101] - Quote Syrilian wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode And? You can still fit an AB on it. Tried it, it's not a good idea, there are much better T3 destroyers for that; all of the others. Then fly those. Didn't you read the thread? Already am. I was before I even posted this thread.
Syrilian Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 116	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:42:15 - [102] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Syrilian wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: baltec1 wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode And? You can still fit an AB on it. Tried it, it's not a good idea, there are much better T3 destroyers for that; all of the others. Then fly those. Didn't you read the thread? Already am. I was before I even posted this thread. Yep I read it. Okay, so continue to fly those and stop bitching that you can't fly a ship the way you want that isn't designed to be flown that way when they are already ships that can do what you want to do.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 377	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:13:46 - [103] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 784	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:16:56 - [104] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. You can push a cat to 700dps. A hecate goes higher than that. Just saying. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 378	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:40:34 - [105] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. You can push a cat to 700dps. A hecate goes higher than that. Just saying. Cata lacks mids and speed. Something the hectate isnt handicapped by. Im sure it can go higher with void and dmg rig. Think what i saw was a dual mag stab, aar, dcu + transverse rigs doing about 750dps cold with 11.4k EHP. Deimos dps with half the sig. Seems pretty spooky to me :) Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 784	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:49:39 - [106] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. You can push a cat to 700dps. A hecate goes higher than that. Just saying. Cata lacks mids and speed. Something the hectate isnt handicapped by. Im sure it can go higher with void and dmg rig. Think what i saw was a dual mag stab, aar, dcu + transverse rigs doing about 750dps cold with 11.4k EHP. Deimos dps with half the sig. Seems pretty spooky to me :) Which in typical gheylante fashion. Its potentially one of the strongest t3d. No other t3d can get close to that damage. Yeah it's a dps monster when you get close, which there is even a bonus for in form of the mwd bonus. Sadly it seems some weird people want it rather fully overpowered with easy beating of bigger ships... glad that's not happening. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:46:31 - [107] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 378	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:10:30 - [108] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaing about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 785	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:16:40 - [109] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: ... dumbass ... I know you don't behave like that IRL, because people will not tolerate it and slap you for it... rightfully so. I absolutely hope someone, at some point in the close future, hits you so hard in the face you bleed, so you learn that certain behaviour has certain consequences. Because if you don't learn it this way and eventually run your mouth against the wrong person, your life might as well end right there. You deserve no respect or attention anymore. Good luck getting through life. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 375	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:22:24 - [110] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ... dumbass ... I know you don't behave like that IRL, because people will not tolerate it and slap you for it... rightfully so. I absolutely hope someone, at some point in the close future, hits you so hard in the face you bleed, so you learn that certain behaviour has certain consequences. Because if you don't learn it this way and eventually run your mouth against the wrong person, your life might as well end right there. You deserve no respect or attention anymore. Good luck getting through life. Yeah this is where Darwinism steps in. (In game of course)
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:23:35 - [111] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Wait.. so the optimal bonus on the svipul does almost nothing for acs?! I demand CCP change this so all my modes and bonuses are viable. Isnt OP flying svipul now? Blasphemy! He is using a t3d with an under utilized bonus. That's just one bonus. All of the t3 destroyers have a useless bonus for basically every fit. The hecate just has more useless bonuses than the rest. Balance! What other t3d can do 700dps with 11k EHP before AAR? Only the hectate you say? I wish my jackdaw did 700dps. Should i make a whine post about that? Actually the svipul has no wasted bonus. Optimal is good for arty. As is tracking. So wheres that wasted bonus? Oh you mean wasted because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Got it. It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaining about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Whoa! Huge response; calm down dear.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:27:30 - [112] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ... dumbass ... I know you don't behave like that IRL, because people will not tolerate it and slap you for it... rightfully so. I absolutely hope someone, at some point in the close future, hits you so hard in the face you bleed, so you learn that certain behaviour has certain consequences. Because if you don't learn it this way and eventually run your mouth against the wrong person, your life might as well end right there. You deserve no respect or attention anymore. Good luck getting through life. Ooh, bringing real life into it now are we? You're much more likely to be hit in the face than me. I don't need your luck. I'm 30, have a great family and planning to buy my second house soon. Have fun trolling other people's posts in the the forum all day long, since that seems to be all that you do; you seem to be really involved with that. People with real lives have better things to do.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 785	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:34:14 - [113] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ... dumbass ... I know you don't behave like that IRL, because people will not tolerate it and slap you for it... rightfully so. I absolutely hope someone, at some point in the close future, hits you so hard in the face you bleed, so you learn that certain behaviour has certain consequences. Because if you don't learn it this way and eventually run your mouth against the wrong person, your life might as well end right there. You deserve no respect or attention anymore. Good luck getting through life. Ooh, bringing real life into it now are we? You're much more likely to be hit in the face than me. I don't need your luck. I'm 30, have a great family and planning to buy my second house soon. I feel genuinly sorry for the people who are forced to live with you, especially children who did nothing to deserve being around such a self entitled, selfish, hating, immature 30 year old person. Best wishes to your family, I hope they can do without you. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 376	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:36:37 - [114] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ... dumbass ... I know you don't behave like that IRL, because people will not tolerate it and slap you for it... rightfully so. I absolutely hope someone, at some point in the close future, hits you so hard in the face you bleed, so you learn that certain behaviour has certain consequences. Because if you don't learn it this way and eventually run your mouth against the wrong person, your life might as well end right there. You deserve no respect or attention anymore. Good luck getting through life. Ooh, bringing real life into it now are we? You're much more likely to be hit in the face than me. I don't need your luck. I'm 30, have a great family and planning to buy my second house soon. Have fun trolling other peoples posts in the the forum all day long, since that seems to be all that you do; you seem to be really involved with that. People with real lives have better things to do. You know, something about all that really bugs me, first off it comes off as someone that HAS to make the claim on the internet behind a fictitious anonymous persona. insecure much?
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 785	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:38:43 - [115] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Have fun trolling other people's posts in the the forum all day long, since that seems to be all that you do; you seem to be really involved with that. People with real lives have better things to do. Well ... see ... it's not trolling. Most people here will sign you that you're the one who trolls. You're the one who insults. You're the one who behaves like a immature little child. You're also the one who started this thread. You're many more things, but I'm not willing to lower myself to your level of education. A life you might have and real it might as well be, but of all things it could be, GOOD is it only in your head. Again, best wishes to your family, you have received enough of my good will. Finally! Temperature dropped considerably and it's raining! I run outside cheering life itself, only wearing a tanktop and panties... and as the falling rain caresses my skin, I hear thunder announce the coming storm. Romantic times ahead...
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:49:14 - [116] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Have fun trolling other people's posts in the the forum all day long, since that seems to be all that you do; you seem to be really involved with that. People with real lives have better things to do. Well ... see ... it's not trolling. Most people here will sign you that you're the one who trolls. You're the one who insults. You're the one who behaves like a immature little child. You're also the one who started this thread. You're many more things, but I'm not willing to lower myself to your level of education. A life you might have and real it might as well be, but of all things it could be, GOOD is it only in your head. Again, best wishes to your family, you have received enough of my good will. Firstly, you claim to have special powers, because how else could you assume to know anything about my life and my family. Secondly, you claim to be more educated, when you know nothing of my education. Just what powers are these anyway? I bet you're a gypsy palm reader or something. You're clearly very angry. You try to hide it, but it's clear for all to see; because only someone seething would target a guys family to try to get to him. This is my final response to you. Have fun with your delusions, and remember to go outside once in a while; trolling others' posts all day is not healthy.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38645	Posted - 2015.07.09 23:50:13 - [117] - Quote OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 6638	Posted - 2015.07.10 00:22:55 - [118] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: ...I am forced... Let me stop you right there. No one is forcing you to do anything. Anyone can take a sentence out of context by quoting only a small part of it. Well done you, you're a big boy now. Let's put it back into context: I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode Some people would argue that they're FORCED to use lasers on an Abaddon or they won't be taking advantage of the laser bonus. But I've seen enough effective artillery-fit Abaddons to know the creative genius of the greater EVE population is lacking. So no, I took nothing out of context. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenshae Chiroptera 1821	Posted - 2015.07.10 00:48:06 - [119] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: ... Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus. ... Tech 3 has always been a power problem and now the power creep is even worse. CCP had an opportunity to make Tech 3 about utility but failed. So, your complaints that your over powered ship is not over powered enough looks totally ludicrous to me. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.10 08:32:06 - [120] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. I've tested it, your hecate would lose badly.
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2138	Posted - 2015.07.10 09:02:05 - [121] - Quote Still kind of sad that my Enyo and my Ishkur have MWD bonuses and in order for me to sig tank battleships and battlecruisers I'm FORCED to use an afterburner. Likewise this MWD bonus is completely wasted when I'm brawling smaller ships as they will, like me, be fitting a scram and shut my propulsion down... so I'm still forced to use an afterburner. 'tis not fair. I think. maybe. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Domino Vyse Element Connective 153	Posted - 2015.07.10 09:23:07 - [122] - Quote OP is a fool.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24188	Posted - 2015.07.10 09:31:17 - [123] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. I've tested it, your hecate would lose badly. If you're so sure of that then you should take him up on the offer. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38656	Posted - 2015.07.10 09:43:30 - [124] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. I've tested it, your hecate would lose badly. If you're so sure of that then you should take him up on the offer. ^ Yes this. Come on OP. It's only a ship loss for one of us, nothing to be scared of. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 382	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:17:04 - [125] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaining about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Whoa! Huge response; calm down dear. Oh good. So I guess you realized you were the dumbass. Since there was no retort, or witty comeback. Such a child. Did Aza Ebanu and CAM have a child, and then proceed to drop it on its head a few times? Are you their offspring? The whiny entitlement of CAM with the outright refusal to ever be wrong of Aza. Then with some brain damage thrown in for good measure. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Vol Arm'OOO Bagel and Lox 666	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:35:16 - [126] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. ...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity? Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc. No they are not a necessity. They are a crutch for folk with no imagination. The question is - in a sandbox, who should decide what role a ship fills? The devs or the players? Do you really think in a sandbox where there were no roles that there would be uniformity? No, there would still be logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . It would just be up to the players to make the roles from generic hulls. of course the problem is that some folk just want content spoon fed to them. being supplied a ship that can do a specialist job is not being spoonfed You are absolutely being spoon fed. But apart from the lack of player freedom look at the crazy cycle that roles put ccp on -- CCP creates the drake as the flavor of the month; everybody uses the drake; so ccp nerfs the drake and missiles etc. . ., driving the drake out of popularity make a new flavor of the month the drone boat; everybody uses drone boats, no one uses drakes; so now ccp nerfs drone boats and buff missiles; while its early its safe to say that a new flavor of the month is coming soon which some speculate will be the drake. In short CCP is in a endless nerf, buff cycle, which they cant win since they cannot ever achieve perfect balance. However, in chasing after balance they are forced to dedicate considerable dev resources, time, energy and expense. Clearly, it would be better if they broke the cycle and just put their faith in the sandbox. Just tell the players that balance is something that the players create and then give the players flexible tools to create ships. With the right tools, the players will fill the roles - logi, dps, hauler, etc. . . , and this will free up devs to actually create content instead of being on balance hamster wheel. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:49:33 - [127] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaining about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Whoa! Huge response; calm down dear. Oh good. So I guess you realized you were the dumbass. Since there was no retort, or witty comeback. Such a child. Did Aza Ebanu and CAM have a child, and then proceed to drop it on its head a few times? Are you their offspring? The whiny entitlement of CAM with the outright refusal to ever be wrong of Aza. Then with some brain damage thrown in for good measure. More likely I thought you wern't worth wasting time on a well thought out response; just like this time.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 56	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:54:19 - [128] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. I've tested it, your hecate would lose badly. If you're so sure of that then you should take him up on the offer. ^ Yes this. Come on OP. It's only a ship loss for one of us, nothing to be scared of. I realise you're using a forum alt, so if you want, just send me a mail on your main and I'll keep it confidential. Any time man.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 382	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:54:31 - [129] - Quote The drake is never making a comeback while ishtars are around. The whole kinetic lock amd gal t2 resists. Not to mention drakes were used extensively not because they were the most OP ship around bit because their insurance payout was so jacked up, you could welp them for 10-20m isk after payouts. They were also easy to train into, good for alliances to get newbros into fleets. The rise of the drake is not upon us. It will probably never make a return while sentry boats are available. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 382	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:57:47 - [130] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaining about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Whoa! Huge response; calm down dear. Oh good. So I guess you realized you were the dumbass. Since there was no retort, or witty comeback. Such a child. Did Aza Ebanu and CAM have a child, and then proceed to drop it on its head a few times? Are you their offspring? The whiny entitlement of CAM with the outright refusal to ever be wrong of Aza. Then with some brain damage thrown in for good measure. More likely I thought you wern't worth wasting time on a well thought out response; just like this time. You? A well thought out response? Id like to see it happen. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Jacques d'Orleans The Scope Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2015.07.10 14:19:49 - [131] - Quote OP is obviously lacking--->
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 791	Posted - 2015.07.10 14:27:03 - [132] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: It wasn't me who complained about the svipul, dumbass, it was another guy. I just replied to him. Got it (stupid comment throwback to guy who thinks he is tough, keyboard warrior LOL) Hecate DPS blah blah, it's not all about DPS. I know reading comprehension is hard. So i'll try and break it down for you. You're complaining about MWD bonus not being useful to AB fits. Saying that if you fit an AB, you are not utilizing a bonus and that some how makes the ship worthless, dumb, or some other whiney rant. I said that if you use ac's on a svipul you are not utilizing the optimal bonus of the svipul. Since ac's (especially small) have almost non existant optimal. Therefore, by your logic, the svipul is a terrible ship since its more tailored for arty than ac. Meaning you're FORCED into using arty (you're not). In case you missed it, ac svipuls are far more common than arty svipuls. Then you proceeded to tell me that every t3d has wasted bonuses. At which point i used the svipul as an example again. Stating the optimal and tracking bonuses can do wonderful things for arty. So its only a "wasted" bonus because it doesnt fit YOUR idea of what the ship should be. Be creative and im sure you can make it work. That clear things up for you, cupcake? Whoa! Huge response; calm down dear. Oh good. So I guess you realized you were the dumbass. Since there was no retort, or witty comeback. Such a child. Did Aza Ebanu and CAM have a child, and then proceed to drop it on its head a few times? Are you their offspring? The whiny entitlement of CAM with the outright refusal to ever be wrong of Aza. Then with some brain damage thrown in for good measure. More likely I thought you wern't worth wasting time on a well thought out response; just like this time. You? A well thought out response? Id like to see it happen. She thinks she's actually capable of a well thought out response although there's tons of evidence she isn't. That made me laugh! Some people are just tools to play with, really. My nose tickles. haaa..... HAAAAAA...... HHHAAAAAAAAAA
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38658	Posted - 2015.07.10 15:15:22 - [133] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Nidal Fervor wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: OP, there's nothing like testing. How about you fire up a Svipul and I fire up a Hecate and we go see whether the Hecate is unbalanced and useless? I'll even come fly to whichever system you prefer. high, low, null all good. I've tested it, your hecate would lose badly. If you're so sure of that then you should take him up on the offer. ^ Yes this. Come on OP. It's only a ship loss for one of us, nothing to be scared of. I realise you're using a forum alt, so if you want, just send me a mail on your main and I'll keep it confidential. Any time man. Ok, great. I'll send you a mail. e. Mail sent Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1504	Posted - 2015.07.12 23:10:54 - [134] - Quote how did the fight work out? ^^ There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP

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