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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.15 13:17:00 -
[1]
Since i have 10 in Sec status i really dont like that ill get 4,9 later, i have worked damn hard for it, and saying, "everyone else also gets lowered" doesnt help, if someone have 2 getting it to 1 dont matter that much, but if you have a high status it DO matters!!! I havent worked on it for so long and beeing careful what i do to get it halved.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Der Ewige
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Posted - 2003.11.15 13:31:00 -
[2]
Lol the fact is u can only have securety stat of 10 if u had played in the first month of eve where it needed about 4 hours to got it, so stopp whining its only the elimination of an "exploit"
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.15 13:58:00 -
[3]
say what? before you start to say anything maybe you should find the FACTS... and no it ddnt take 4 hours... if it did how come you dont have it?
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
pr0toss
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Posted - 2003.11.15 15:21:00 -
[4]
In the first month of eve, your security status rocketed very fast. So fast that at the moment security status is a joke, seeing a person with 10 security status doesnt say anything about the person at the moment, except that they started playing in that first month.
But dividing all standings by 2 will hopefully lower the amount of very higher security status pirates and make security status an actual measurement of people's career and intent.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.11.15 16:23:00 -
[5]
Quote: Lol the fact is u can only have securety stat of 10 if u had played in the first month of eve where it needed about 4 hours to got it, so stopp whining its only the elimination of an "exploit"
Buying the game when it hit shelves is now an exploit?
Accusing people of exploits is a serious thing, perhaps you should consider that. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.11.15 16:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lithorus on 15/11/2003 16:28:41 I'm also one of those who has 10.0 in sec rating and I didn't start in the first month, I started a month after release. To those who think it was done overnight obviously didn't play back then. It's true that the first 8.0 or so came rather fast, but the last 1.0 was a ***** to get(sorry for the language). Also the fact that it can never be done again means that you have a character who has been on the "rightous" path for the last 6 month.
To be honest it's not something I beleive people will quit for, but it's rather disrespectfully against those who worked hard and earned that sec rating.
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Artean
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Posted - 2003.11.15 17:06:00 -
[7]
Quote: Edited by: Lithorus on 15/11/2003 16:28:41 It's true that the first 8.0 or so came rather fast, but the last 1.0 was a ***** to get(sorry for the language). quote]
Well, isnt that because of the new system to gain sec status was introduced then (when u reached sec 8)? |
Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.11.15 17:11:00 -
[8]
Nope, the last points were tougher to get. My friends got alot more than me with 9.9x.
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Drachir
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Posted - 2003.11.15 18:27:00 -
[9]
On TQ I have 8.3 and on chaos I have 4. This is from playing since the first week of release. I have to agree with raven, it takes a LOT of work to get a high sec status and thats all going down the drain. The standings I don't mind so much cos a change was needed.
Also the higher your sec status, the slower it goes up. You get less of an increase from kills.
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.11.15 18:39:00 -
[10]
Well I was able to get to 9.6 in the first 2 months before they fixed it and only just recently got to 9.8. I don't really care if it gets halved since it gets applied to everyone.
You have to admit that itĘs unfair to the new people that started playing after the sec level fix that everyone who started played in the first 2 months have really high sec levels while the new people are stuck at like 4. So I think the reduction is fair.
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Xailia
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Posted - 2003.11.15 23:56:00 -
[11]
Quote: Also the higher your sec status, the slower it goes up. You get less of an increase from kills.
It should be the opposite, because when you are neutral, the authorities don't really know which side of the law you are really on. If you have already painstakingly brought yourself up to 5.0 sec status, they know that you can be trusted, and your sec status should go up faster.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.16 00:36:00 -
[12]
So people who started early should be punished? Well i and many other have worked HARD to gain and maintain the high sec status, for us its important, like a "Statement" same as for pirates, so will THEY gain sec status? like 1 -10,0 suddenly becomes a -5? It is alot easier to get a low than a high.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Mae Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.11.16 00:50:00 -
[13]
Youre not punished, you were rewarded. Because you started early, you had all this time to play around with a nice shiny sec status rating which hardly meant anything. So youre trading a sec status which meant nothing before, to something which means something now (after patch). You lose nothing, just gain gain gain.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.11.16 02:56:00 -
[14]
Took me a few weeks of NPC hunting in my Merlin. I was up to 10.0 by the time I could afford a Blackbird (which costed more than a Moa does now, btw) and start killing people. So, you didn't work hard for it.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Lottsa Pox
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Posted - 2003.11.16 03:49:00 -
[15]
actually raven deblade i took me just under 3 hrs to get pos 8.0 sec rating during the first week game was released. Reason i never got to pos ten was i spent too much time killing people. So i would use the local npc pirates to get sec rating above a pos .1 just to **** off the people i had killed. The couldnt put a bounty on me. But hey i enjoy the neg ten rating i have been carting around for a while now.
Enjoy the game, I know I am
Lottsa Pox Pox to ya pod
BioMass Cartel Podding a system near you |
Psychic Sue
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Posted - 2003.11.16 09:21:00 -
[16]
this uproar is just ridiculous. EVERYONE's points get halved. so whats the point besides pride that you maxed it out already ?
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Lu'cesha
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Posted - 2003.11.16 10:48:00 -
[17]
Raven DeBlade = carebear
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.16 11:16:00 -
[18]
Quote: Buying the game when it hit shelves is now an exploit?
Accusing people of exploits is a serious thing, perhaps you should consider that.
Errr .... no it ain't. Nobody said people were doing so deliberately; but if the security system wasn't working properly and some people took advantage of that to reach +10 in way less time than it's supposed to be possible, that is an exploit. "Exploit" means "take advantage of," regardless of deliberate intent.
_______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
FileCop AI
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Posted - 2003.11.16 15:12:00 -
[19]
True, I've heard you got high sec rating fast once - but that has been removed, and some of us killed what seems like millions of NPC to get 6.0 - so give us a break...
FileCop AI of MASS Co-CEO |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.16 17:42:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote: Buying the game when it hit shelves is now an exploit?
Accusing people of exploits is a serious thing, perhaps you should consider that.
Errr .... no it ain't. Nobody said people were doing so deliberately; but if the security system wasn't working properly and some people took advantage of that to reach +10 in way less time than it's supposed to be possible, that is an exploit. "Exploit" means "take advantage of," regardless of deliberate intent.
Deliberate use of an bug is "Exploit" playing the game normally and gaining something through a bug is not an exploit!
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.11.16 18:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Redundancy on 16/11/2003 19:05:14 I've been thinking about this issue, and had the following thoughts on it...
Ask yourself what you will not get after having your positive sec / faction rating halved that you get currently on tranquility?
I think it's very difficult to come up with a list of things that having a higher faction (>2 as mentioned in the first post) will help with at the moment - the most concrete example that I've been able to think of is your chances of successfully meeting a level 1 agent when you dock at their station (which, since after the changes I believe you'll actually have access to all the level 1 agents, doesn't really count as a negative to the changes). The only other thing is a bigger buffer against negative deeds - given how much more difficult it is to raise your faction ratings now, it's unlikely that you're doing anything that would reduce them like that anyway.
On the other hand, after the changes, having a high (~10) faction rating would probably immediately give you access to high level agents (when they're available).
On balance, it would seem that keeping standings the same would not really save you from negative effects from having them reduced, but would on the other hand grant you high level agents that you wouldn't have got under the current system without having laboured through the agent missions (which is inlikely if you've got a high faction rating of +8 left over from the period where advancement was easier, due to the faction rating cap bug that existed around the same time and after).
I can certainly understand frustration with losing something that you percieve to have already earnt, but I do feel that given the extra ease that people had in gaining faction and security ratings in the earlier stages of the game gave them a large advantage that does not now exist in a system where it currently has very little to no real meaning.
These views are however, purely my own. Forgive me for playing devil's advocate.
PS. the definition of "exploit" in the Oxford English Dictionary makes no requirement on the use being intentional.
As a verb, the two definitions are: 1) Make use of (a resource etc.) 2) utilize or take advantage of for one's own ends.
The problem is that the context of the use of the word 'exploit' in an online game is different from the other possible meanings of it, and a very derogatory term... With this in mind, I'd ask everyone to be very careful with the use of the word in this forum if they mean anything other than the knowing use of a game system that unintentionally provides an unfair advantage. In fact, I'd rather not see it applied to people in here at all, just like I'd rather not see anyone tossing around the labels 'carebear' or 'griefer' at anyone either.
Redundancy |
Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2003.11.17 02:46:00 -
[22]
im not speaking about faction standings, im speaking of Security status, wich is and should be 2 different things, my satandings got screwed anyway bu bugged agents, but my security status is a different matter
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.11.17 11:16:00 -
[23]
I kinda agree with redundancy on this, it's my impression that the benefits of the new standing system outweighs the (disputable) disadvantages.
And Raven,
Quote: ...my satandings got screwed
Don't you just hate it when that happens? :p ________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.11.17 14:47:00 -
[24]
Personally I think this will hit people with lower sec ratings harder.
If you require 2.0 standing to get an agent, and someone got an agent and did a few missions for them, but then has done something else, now they will loose that pre-req. Whilst that might not effect the current agent, if they choose to align with a different NPC corp for all the coming agent related changes, they now can't do that until they again meet the pre-req.
A little hard on those with mining as a heavy part of their profession. Killing mid to low end rats takes a very long time to increase sec.
Just a thought or two to consider.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.11.17 17:51:00 -
[25]
It could be worse...
I once had a nice sec standing of 6.5 (back when I was good)
after one day, hunting one person, and getting preciscely one (1) kill (on a 16 Mil bountied (official) player), who was low sec *and* I podded him outside empire space, in a 0.0., I lost practically everything, I think I went back to base that day with 0.4 SS.
I petitioned, but I was one of the ones that didn't get it fixed :/
And for all the people losing sec, if you look at it a slightly different way, you will still have the same level of sec status *relative* to everyone else.
People will know that someone with 5.0 after the 'fix' will be people who 'used' to be 9.9, etc.
also, I think this fix comes alongside the feature where you can add personal notes to your char, so you could just list your achievements in there:
- I killed 13,000 NPC's - I used to be 9.9 SS - etc. .
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Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2003.11.17 19:20:00 -
[26]
I'm less worried about the halving thing than the 1% decline per day thing.
It doesn't seem sensible to have this decrease linearly (i.e. a straight 1% deduction).
If you have, say, 2%, then a 1% decline is a 50% penalty. Pretty nasty hit to a basal standing. If you have, say, 10%, then a 1% decline is a 10% penalty.
I don't think that makes sense. It should be harder to maintain super, ultra, uber, favoured status with the agent. That makes sense. You start ignoring her, she takes you off the elite list.
But you'd still be pretty favoured, for a while. Just not as favoured. Even after a long time of ignoring her, she'd still be somewhat appreciative if you came back into the fold down the line.
Really the decline should really be non-linear. It should slow as it drops.
Maybe 10% of your *current* level with the agent would be more logical. And fair. The hit to a 2% standing is -0.2%; the hit to 10% is -1.0%.
This halving thing is a one-time only deal. I can deal with that if the devs think it's needed (hope it applies to my -9.22 vs Caldari state... :). Seems like a non-issue, actually.
The 1% penalty is the more permanent, insidious 'nerf' that will annoy people in the months to come and probably cause longer term disatisfaction and more "I can't do anything but missions in eve" posts or something.
Especially those with a high standing agent that decided to go off farming (whatever) for a few days, to ensure they have a diverse playing experience.
It would be nice to catch this bug/imbalance now. Or maybe provide a bit more info on it for worried folk like me ;)
For example: "Ayar you dumb4ss, it's 1% of your current standing, not a straight -1% unfair deduction". :)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.17 19:27:00 -
[27]
"It doesn't seem sensible to have this decrease linearly (i.e. a straight 1% deduction).
If you have, say, 2%, then a 1% decline is a 50% penalty. Pretty nasty hit to a basal standing. If you have, say, 10%, then a 1% decline is a 10% penalty."
... It's not linear decline. From how it currently works on Chaos it seems that 1% change means, you lose 1% of your current standing i.e. the lower your standing, the smaller the daily change. In your example the daily change would be -0.02. ^^
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Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2003.11.17 20:50:00 -
[28]
Yay! You forgot the "Ayar, you dumb4ss", though.
Boy I'm looking forward to the next feature patch. Allowing for some rough edges at first of course.
Thanks j0...always like your informative posts, with the numbers and facts and stuff. Even when I disagree, I like seeing numbers and concrete info.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2003.11.17 22:25:00 -
[29]
I'm a bit confused, hope someone can shed a light on this.
Will it be faction rating that determines what level agent you get or corporation rating? For me it seems that corporation rating (with a double check from faction rating) would eb the logical thing to do.
So if you want a lvl 3 agent for transtellar shipping you should get a corporation rating of 4.0 for transtellar shipping and a faction rating of 3.0 for gallente.
I can't think of a reason why transtellar shipping for instance would suddenly give you lvl 3 agents if you only did missions for other gallente corporations.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.17 22:35:00 -
[30]
Will it be faction rating that determines what level agent you get or corporation rating? For me it seems that corporation rating (with a double check from faction rating) would eb the logical thing to do."
'Tis either the corporation rating or the faction, depending which of them is higher. Note the faction rises much slower than corporate standing, so at least in the beginning of your agent ***** career you'll have to climb pretty much the whole ladder for each corporation you choose.
"I can't think of a reason why transtellar shipping for instance would suddenly give you lvl 3 agents if you only did missions for other gallente corporations."
... Think of standings/faction as of fame. While corporation standing tells how well known you are to the members of that corporation, your faction is an estimate how famous you are in the whole Federation (in your case) So if you get your faction high enough, any agent in the Federation will want to have you working for them.
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