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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:04:00 -
[1]
Can any one think of a way this could happen whereby the agent runner paying attention and putting some bloody effort in couldn't have prevented it?
I'd leave you with a few points:
1) Ctrl-F11, this sees both scan probes and player ships.
2) Cloaked ships decloak within 2km of an object
3) Missions all have fixed warp-ins.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.30 00:28:00 -
[2]
how is the scanner used to find enemy scan probes? i dont really know how scan probes work.. but there is no way to tell if you are BEING scanned, right? and if you do not scan right as the scanprobe flies by you (which you can not see right/) you have no way of knowing that you are being scanned?
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Nordvargr
GoonWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:30:00 -
[3]
Watching local.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:30:00 -
[4]
I guess the problem is really going to have to do with how often pirates try to probe out mission runners. If it's more a matter of being smart about what systems you choose to mission in, no problem. But if it's hard to find decent systems where it doesn't happen a lot, people just aren't going to bother with lowsec missions. Sure, you can save your ship, but it's not exactly much fun or good for your EVE career to zip to a safe or station if you're having to put off missions every few hours.
I say that both as somebody who both runs missions and pirates. While I like the idea of mission runners being vulnerable, I don't want it to be so extreme that the only targets are noobs who don't know any better. If that sounds exaggerated, well it shouldn't: it will be the near mirror image of LowSec belts.
In other words, LowSec will continue to devolve into something that's no fun for either carebears or any pirate worth their official YARRR! bandanna; while the good stuff happens in 0.0 and to some extent in HighSec.
Sorry, somehow this bacame another one of my LowSec rants.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Jago X
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:40:00 -
[5]
most pirates will kill missions runners by moving into a nearby system and using various noob corp alts to scan down the mission runners and then once theyve found someone they will bring in the gank squad for them. This means you really need to pay attention ALL the time in local.
Scanning down missions just got a whole lot easier now tho. Its something every passsing pirate will probably have a go at now in the main lvl4 mission running centres around eve low-sec .. most of which are allready infested with pirates.
In short they can leave alts in the system and prevent most sensible people from bieng able to run missions for the entire time they are logged on.
Only way to fight them is to hunt down the pirates themsevles and gank them until they leave - which from my previous experince is a rather pointless endevour as they will just either stay docked until the odds are in ther favour or undock and fight and your basically giving them what they want anyway which is just a bit of fun. Imo low sec lvl4 mission running isnt a good isk earner anymore. The rewards are lower than living in decent 0.0 and the risks are higher than almost any other way of making your isk now that its sooo easy to scan missions down.
In short if you dont like PvP stick to high sec lag systems with lvl3/4 agents in them and if you dont mind PvP then go join a decent group living in 0.0 and make your isk that way.
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.30 01:45:00 -
[6]
The OP misses one critical point: the pirates have the advantage of initiative. If a mission runner wants to not get ganked, he has to keep watching local all the time, scan all the time and always be alert. That's a lot of work when you're lagged to hell doing a mission.
A pirate's job is easier, even if it doesn't necessarily earn more isk. If a mission runner gets away from you, sure you've not gained anything, but the mission runner pretty much can't finish that missin now for fear of being ganked.
I don't know if it'll become a problem, but it sure looks like it.
Repopulate Low-Sec
Paxton Industries is Recruiting
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 03:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Nordvargr
Watching local.
Pretty much the first rule of EvE pvp, anyonethat can't do that needs to go play WoW.
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Dahin
Maza Nostra
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.30 03:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dahin on 30/11/2006 03:56:02
Missionrunners should expect to start getting ganked in their missionspots more with each passing day.
MMmmmmm, I wanna try this tommorow or something. Any ebil pirate that has scouted a faction-fitted bs missionrunning in lowsec gimme a call pls 
8k km deviation from the missionspot from an observator probe within 30 seconds of scanning time will pritty much get you killed FAST. I highly doubt the scanner can help missionrunners any more since one can spit probes outside scanner range and still get on the missiongate (hey, if observator does like 8k deviation without skills on an indy, ferret should do a whole lot more on a bs with skills. And don't forget that warping anywhere close to a missionspot sucks you in on the gate)
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
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Xenny Lee
Minmatar
The Splinter Syndicate
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xenny Lee on 30/11/2006 04:16:44
Theres a variety of types of missions and the big thing that can will keep a mission runner relatively safe from scanning (less it was changed) is that you cant warp in a complex.... meaning dont go for missions where there isnt an initial gate (and Im fairly sure less its changed, that probing will bring you to the entrance of the plex but you cant warp in)...
The biggest thing is if they put the Recon Launcher in game.... That thing is positively Evil and if they fix up the probes (which to last news wasnt working) Im not opposed to it, and Im sure as hell not opposed to 0.0 being just a little bit more dangerous, but thats the launcher that with proper skills will catch safed Battleships and Cruisers fairly easily. Also last I heard low sec was preety much the most dangerous place ever since Pirates get the luxury of going AFK in stations and stuff, have next to no crud littering their scans and can catch all these people that are under the illusion that Low sec is safer than 0.0.
Edit: Dahin as much as I sorta feel that mission runners dont bring a whole lot to the game, them getting isk from us buying their stuff is almost as good as an isk sink... and they provide a huge base to all the named T1 stuff and implants... That IMO isnt worth moving them into the dead zone of eve.
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Morp p'LLoran
Redemption EnterpriseS
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dahin
Edited by: Dahin on 30/11/2006 03:56:02
......
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
Why is this alway the first thing pirates scream for - more easy targets. Why is there never a call from pirates for more PvP targets?
My conclusions - too afraid to fight something that can fight back.
My opinion? - Give low-sec "something" that will draw alliances - big corps. More PvP targets, more logistic needs - will make pirating tougher - but more profitable, and the peeps getting killed are there BY THEIR OWN WILL.
Why do all the lo-sec solutions proposed have to be about dragging unwilling easy targets there kicking and screaming? Get some balls and ask for solutions which will bring you what you say you want - real PVP. Or is that too scary??
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2006.11.30 04:42:00 -
[11]
and then what? only newbs will do lvl4 missions, and pirates will keep ganking newbs. Somehow I doubt though, because they will learn in lvl1-3 stage that lowsec missions are not worth while, so lvl4 missions won't be done at all. Excepto for courier.
And all those asocial people who only stayed in this game to do missions, will quit the game, yay for less lag!
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JoCool
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.11.30 06:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Originally by: Nordvargr
Watching local.
Pretty much the first rule of EvE pvp, anyonethat can't do that needs to go play WoW.
That's so sad. If there was no local mission runners would be hidden from pirates.
_______________________________________________________________________
Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel!
Oveur > ohnoes jocool |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.11.30 07:59:00 -
[13]
You have to scan for probes every minute now as a low/NulSec mission runner - and if you detect one, you better not be scrambled.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
schurem
Anarchy Inc.
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:16:00 -
[14]
nothing we can do about it eh? no stealthing rigs or counterprobes or anything?
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
Warning sounds!, My kingdom for more warning sounds!
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Morp p'LLoran
Originally by: Dahin
Edited by: Dahin on 30/11/2006 03:56:02
......
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
Why is this alway the first thing pirates scream for - more easy targets. Why is there never a call from pirates for more PvP targets?
My conclusions - too afraid to fight something that can fight back.
My opinion? - Give low-sec "something" that will draw alliances - big corps. More PvP targets, more logistic needs - will make pirating tougher - but more profitable, and the peeps getting killed are there BY THEIR OWN WILL.
Why do all the lo-sec solutions proposed have to be about dragging unwilling easy targets there kicking and screaming? Get some balls and ask for solutions which will bring you what you say you want - real PVP. Or is that too scary??
because that is piracy.. what you describe is all out combat... corp conflit. Its more military combat
quite different from piracy.
Pirats want civilian targets.. get over it...
You should not be obligated to go into pirate range.. but you should be persuaded to if you want a BIG reward.
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Valerek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Morp p'LLoran
Originally by: Dahin
Edited by: Dahin on 30/11/2006 03:56:02
......
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
Why is this alway the first thing pirates scream for - more easy targets. Why is there never a call from pirates for more PvP targets?
My conclusions - too afraid to fight something that can fight back.
My opinion? - Give low-sec "something" that will draw alliances - big corps. More PvP targets, more logistic needs - will make pirating tougher - but more profitable, and the peeps getting killed are there BY THEIR OWN WILL.
Why do all the lo-sec solutions proposed have to be about dragging unwilling easy targets there kicking and screaming? Get some balls and ask for solutions which will bring you what you say you want - real PVP. Or is that too scary??
That's the whole problem with prats. They're like low-browed gang bangers in the inner city slums. They hang out in GROUPS and fight peeps that cannot fight back.
For some reason this latest patch name is appropriate: "Revelations"...of how badly Eve is going for all...  |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.30 16:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 30/11/2006 16:50:47
Originally by: Morp p'LLoran
Originally by: Dahin
Edited by: Dahin on 30/11/2006 03:56:02
......
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
Why is this alway the first thing pirates scream for - more easy targets. Why is there never a call from pirates for more PvP targets?
My conclusions - too afraid to fight something that can fight back.
My opinion? - Give low-sec "something" that will draw alliances - big corps. More PvP targets, more logistic needs - will make pirating tougher - but more profitable, and the peeps getting killed are there BY THEIR OWN WILL.
Why do all the lo-sec solutions proposed have to be about dragging unwilling easy targets there kicking and screaming? Get some balls and ask for solutions which will bring you what you say you want - real PVP. Or is that too scary??
in fact this is dahin's sikrit plan to force a change in the scan probe system.
if the devs don't listen to the concerns of the covops specialists on the forums ... carebears must be sacrificied to fill the forums with their whining about the stupid scan probe system 
___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
LukaG
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:56:00 -
[18]
Can someone please tell me if pirates can go through your deadspace gates while your doing a mission or if they are "locked" to them. Since I have a very limited understanding of the scanning system particularly the new one, how easy is it to track someone down like this while they are doing a mission?
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slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:00:00 -
[19]
pirate e.g. me
1. scan probes location of mission runner.
2. warps to first gate of mission.
3. scans mission type and ship type of mission runner.
4. fits tank knowing what mission runner is firing.
5. fits jammers to jam mission runners ship..
6. if more than 1 gate waits until mission runner is on 2nd or 3rd gate.
7. follows mission runner.
8, engages mission runner (often while mission runner is afk)
9, asks for reasonable ransom.
10. doesnt recieve answer.
11. blows mission runner up and scoops loot.
12. receives angry mail when mission runner has made cup of tea.
man its easy, and fun, id recommend anyone try it.
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:14:00 -
[20]
Actually, if you ask me it looks like the general idea is to get rid of boring gate camps and replace them with exciting mission deadspace pirating, which I can sort of agree with. First pirate buff in what, 2 years.
Will be interesting to see how low sec mission runners adapt, or if they do at all and not just return to high sec or start belt ratting in 0.0 instead or turn pirate themselves (but who'll be then prey?).
Anyway, if removal of gate camps is the point, then can we have the old highways back please?
--
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Skunrah
Eve's Brothers of Destiny
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:19:00 -
[21]
Level 4 mission runners like myself will just refuse the missions that force you into low sec. Since only about 20% of the missions I get send me there anyway, I'll just save my 'once-every-4-hours' mission refusal for that. 
Skunrah
Director - Eve Brothers of Destiny |
Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: LukaG
Can someone please tell me if pirates can go through your deadspace gates while your doing a mission or if they are "locked" to them. Since I have a very limited understanding of the scanning system particularly the new one, how easy is it to track someone down like this while they are doing a mission?
A) Yes they can
B) Extremely easy. Read Hoshi's guide to the new scanning system (stickied at top). It's quite possible to be 'found' by a probe within a few minutes of starting the mission.
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Magnus Card
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 30/11/2006 04:48:11
and then what? only newbs will do lvl4 missions, and pirates will keep ganking newbs. Somehow I doubt though, because they will learn in lvl1-3 stage that lowsec missions are not worth while, so lvl4 missions won't be done at all. Except for courier.
And all those asocial people (western society generates lots of them, and TQ is primarily for western ppl) who only stayed in this game to do missions, will quit the game, yay for less lag!
and CCP will lose a ton of income and who knows, maybe you are actually cheering for the end of Eve. Good job on thinking that one through.
<---- mods please fix the pic |
LukaG
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:02:00 -
[24]
I don't really understand the some peoples vehement hatred of mission runners, it seems a bit childish to me. A huge amount of people run missions, mostly as part of other activities but some almost exclusivly its true. What I don't understand is why PvP's hate them so much, its not like they are doing you any harm is it, not everybody wants to the same stuff in this game for christs sakes??
On a seperate note this will mean the end of solo low sec mission running which is what I thought the devs wanted to encourage (as a pose to high sec mission running.) Think about it, to have any chance of doing the more difficult lvl 4 missions you need a massive tank setup. This means you have no way of defending yourself against ECM, warp jamming, NOS etc that a typical PvP will have equiped. Fights will be short, one sided and the pirate will always have the option of buggering off if it isn't going his way since the missions runner is highly unlikely to be able to equip a warp jammer.
Now before I hear a massive chorus of "So What??" and "sounds pretty good to me", consider for a second that pretty soon there will be NO mission runners in low sec, who the f&^k are you going to gank then eh? It will just be a load of pirates chasing each other in circles bleeding themselves dry of money.....
IF we want this to be the state of things in low sec then thats FINE but for gods sakes change the missions structure/content so that people can do them in PvP setups and so that they can stand a tiny chance when that pirate gang warps in.
flame away.
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Shagrath Xarra
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:44:00 -
[25]
There are a lot of people who go to Low sec to rat and mine. Some just go to run complexes or even go through to buy items or move goods.
Some of you Mission Runners on this board make it sound like you are the only people who ever go to Low sec ever. Contrary to popular belief, it isn't true.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: LukaG
I don't really understand the some peoples vehement hatred of mission runners, it seems a bit childish to me. A huge amount of people run missions, mostly as part of other activities but some almost exclusivly its true. What I don't understand is why PvP's hate them so much, its not like they are doing you any harm is it, not everybody wants to the same stuff in this game for christs sakes??
I don't hate mission runners at all. In fact, it's my easiest source of ISK (running them, not ganking the runners).
What I hate is people who get probed out and killed, and then rather than going "well ****, maybe next time I'll use that scanamidoodle thing", they say "OMG QUIT CRY CARE NERF PIRATES EAT KITTENS AND PUNCH ORPHANS IN REAL LIFE".
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 19:03:22
Originally by: LukaG
I don't really understand the some peoples vehement hatred of mission runners, it seems a bit childish to me. A huge amount of people run missions, mostly as part of other activities but some almost exclusivly its true. What I don't understand is why PvP's hate them so much, its not like they are doing you any harm is it, not everybody wants to the same stuff in this game for christs sakes??
*shrug* I used to be a mission *****. I didn't understand the attitude. Then one day I couldn't take another single mission. I went pirate. I still don't understand the attitude. Then I decided to join an alliance. I still don't understand the attitude.
What it all comes down to: people can't stand that other people are playing the game in a different way. It is just the same in RL - everyone trying to tell each other how they have to live. Bleh.
It goes both ways, though. Carebears telling PVPers/Pirates that they are "teh suxx", etc... the **** just goes around and around...
Originally by: Verus Potestas
What I hate is people who get probed out and killed, and then rather than going "well ****, maybe next time I'll use that scanamidoodle thing", they say "OMG QUIT CRY CARE NERF PIRATES EAT KITTENS AND PUNCH ORPHANS IN REAL LIFE".
That's what I don't understand though. Who cares? They'll QQ, and then they'll either quit or get over it. Either way, is it worth the hate? If so, well, ok I guess... you play the game you want... 
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Grey Area
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: slothe
pirate e.g. me
1. scan probes location of mission runner.
2. warps to first gate of mission.
3. scans mission type and ship type of mission runner.
4. fits tank knowing what mission runner is firing.
5. fits jammers to jam mission runners ship..
6. if more than 1 gate waits until mission runner is on 2nd or 3rd gate.
7. follows mission runner.
8, engages mission runner (often while mission runner is afk)
9, asks for reasonable ransom.
10. doesnt recieve answer.
11. blows mission runner up and scoops loot.
12. receives angry mail when mission runner has made cup of tea.
man its easy, and fun, id recommend anyone try it.
Only part that is total CRAP is the AFK part. Pirate fits with loads of ECM and locks the mission runner down. Pirates asks for ransom, gets paid, then blows up the mission runner anyway. Pirates ransoms are in general 100 mill plus, which takes you about 5 missions to make back.
Those pirates who take their ransom and go...I salute you. I also feel sorry for you that any clown with a scanner is not going to be able to do in 1 minute what it took you about 20 to do...
---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Elaron
Minmatar
Legio Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:33:00 -
[29]
In a game like this, if there is a cheap way to get kills, people will do it. If there is a cheap way to avoid getting killed, people will do it. These rules always seem to be forgotten by both sides of the argument.
I see mission runners having to "adapt" in the following ways:
1) Take more than one character into the mission, with fits closer to PvP ones. If this involves more than one person then, sure, it's a slower rate of LP (assuming you split the mission load between the runners) but you have the greater security that numbers bring.
2) Run missions only in hi-sec.
3) Dock up every time an untrusted character is in local for more than 30 seconds or so.
4) Use cloaks more.
5) Always leave a jetcan on the warp-in point. Perhaps even a small secure, so it isn't blown up quickly.
6) Develop greater situational awareness - at least, until Local gets nerfed.
7) Develop an intimate relationship with the CTRL + Q key combination.
Elaron
It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past. |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.30 19:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Elaron
5) Always leave a jetcan on the warp-in point. Perhaps even a small secure, so it isn't blown up quickly.
?
Quote:
7) Develop an intimate relationship with the CTRL + Q key combination.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Elaron
5) Always leave a jetcan on the warp-in point. Perhaps even a small secure, so it isn't blown up quickly.
?
Recon ship warps in, recon ship lands within 2km of can, recon ship gets decloaked, recon ship appears on scan, mission runner runs.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Verus Potestas
What I hate is people who get probed out and killed, and then rather than going "well ****, maybe next time I'll use that scanamidoodle thing", they say "OMG QUIT CRY CARE NERF PIRATES EAT KITTENS AND PUNCH ORPHANS IN REAL LIFE".
That's what I don't understand though. Who cares? They'll QQ, and then they'll either quit or get over it. Either way, is it worth the hate? If so, well, ok I guess... you play the game you want...
OK, not so much hate as "Congratulations, you made me embarassed to be the same species as you"
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:11:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 30/11/2006 20:11:01
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Elaron
5) Always leave a jetcan on the warp-in point. Perhaps even a small secure, so it isn't blown up quickly.
?
Recon ship warps in, recon ship lands within 2km of can, recon ship gets decloaked, recon ship appears on scan, mission runner runs.
Ahh, gotcha.
Originally by: Verus Potestas
OK, not so much hate as "Congratulations, you made me embarassed to be the same species as you"
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:16:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Elaron
5) Always leave a jetcan on the warp-in point. Perhaps even a small secure, so it isn't blown up quickly.
?
Recon ship warps in, recon ship lands within 2km of can, recon ship gets decloaked, recon ship appears on scan, mission runner runs.
More like recon ship gets decloaked, but moves away and cloaks again long before the mission runner even noticed among the 25 NPCs on his overview...
And all those prats saying 'Go back to highsec', why that is exactly what most runners will do. But somehow that seems to go 100% against what CCP wants to do with lowsec, I always thought the plan was to get people INTO lowsec, not OUT OF it...
As for me, I would love to stay in lowsec as well because it offered the careful player opportunities for both efficient mission running and PVP. I could happily run missions in my faction ships, but when the opportunity arose I could go hunt a prat or three. Now the former is not possible anymore, and the latter involves so much boredom that it just isnt a good replacement for mission running as main course.
And since I am such an asocial person that I feel bad for spoiling other peoples gaming experience, pirating is not an option for me.
That leaves highsec missions and 0.0 as options. And neither of those will be as fun as the old lowsec existance for me.
---------
ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:36:00 -
[35]
Lol, I'll tell you a solution :)
Only T1 modules in a 100% raven :).. pirates will soon quit having so much fun.. ;)
lol.. oh and the occasional redock in station, fit for PvP when you see an unknown "supposed threat" in system after scanning for their type of ship, etc, etc...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Lol, I'll tell you a solution :)
Only T1 modules in a 100% raven :).. pirates will soon quit having so much fun.. ;)
lol.. oh and the occasional redock in station, fit for PvP when you see an unknown "supposed threat" in system after scanning for their type of ship, etc, etc...
That was a 100% insured Raven :D
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:38:00 -
[37]
Yeah a T1 Raven and disrupting missions for PvP sure makes for VERY efficient running 
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Yeah a T1 Raven and disrupting missions for PvP sure makes for VERY efficient running
You can roll your eyes as much as you want bud, however I was "visites" while salvaging the other day, but a friendly pilot who was just "testing" the new scanning system, and she smiled and was glad that it works, so was I that she was friendly...
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:22:00 -
[39]
I can't believe all the carebear missionrunner whining. You have warp to 0km to allow safe travel anywhere in the universe, and you're whining that we can use probes to find you, which arn't even in the game yet. Shut up.
Because I said so...
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Dvaren
Caldari
Seven Suns
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:07:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dvaren on 01/12/2006 04:09:34
Quote:
I can't believe all the carebear missionrunner whining.
Of course not. You are not a carebear missionrunner whiner. You are a gankbear whiner, who was given an "I win" button after countless tearfests concerning other peoples playstyles.
Quote:
You have warp to 0km to allow safe travel anywhere in the universe
Ahh yes. Missionrunners do a lot of traveling through the universe. A gift such as warp-to-zero more than compensates for the tiny inconvienance of being ganked incessantly
Quote:
you're whining that we can use probes to find you
No...we're whining that with little SP or playerbased skill, any clown such as yourself gets a free ticket to a missionrunner lunch.
Quote:
which arn't even in the game yet
They will be shortly, and even if they were not to be, other types of probes do quite well as it stands.
Quote:
Shut up
Or what? Video game death? *shivers*
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: JoCool
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
Originally by: Nordvargr
Watching local.
Pretty much the first rule of EvE pvp, anyonethat can't do that needs to go play WoW.
That's so sad. If there was no local mission runners would be hidden from pirates.
Not really, pirates would probe the system, see there's someone doing missions, and that mission runner wouldn't have any warning.
Removing local will nerf pirating just like warp to 0 did.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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L33t Sphere
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:33:00 -
[42]
Real pirates didn't hunt dangerous enemies, because there is little chance for profit.
They hunting industrial ships that have little chance of winning and had to resort to surrender or a losing fight.
Pirates didn't attack people in highly-patrolled areas(Concord) because they'd get attacked by authorities. They hung out in places that were patrolled little and were along a path that provided wealth to law-abiding citizens, so they could capture those easy targets.
The part that's missing is the profit law abiding citizens(carebears) get from dangerous areas(low sec).
Move agents to low-security.
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Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:39:00 -
[43]
soon all lvl4 agents will get moved to lowsec. bears will cry bloody murder, but in the end nobody will quit. they will just adapt and learn to play the game.
Make ECCM viable! Give it 25% to scanning resolution! |
slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Grey Area
Only part that is total CRAP is the AFK part. Pirate fits with loads of ECM and locks the mission runner down. Pirates asks for ransom, gets paid, then blows up the mission runner anyway. Pirates ransoms are in general 100 mill plus, which takes you about 5 missions to make back.
Those pirates who take their ransom and go...I salute you. I also feel sorry for you that any clown with a scanner is now going to be able to do in 1 minute what it took you about 20 to do...
And this "watch the scanner" thing is just rubbish...maybe under the old system it was viable...but now that pirates can find you in 2 minutes dead...I'll spend more time refreshing the scanner than shooting at my NPCs...
hmm. dude you really dont know what your talking about. you should try it yourself.
ive done this loads of times - pre-kali (and i have some on fraps).
ive come across several mission runners afk - usually waiting on jump in gates.
ive ransomed 30 mill tier 2 bs, 20 mill tier 1 bs 100-50 mill hac- very reasonable if you ask me.
one guy refused to pay for a hac ransom (he was in eagle), i blew him up , his friend came into mission with an ishtar, i offered him ransom, he didnt answer, i blew him up.
im perfectly reasonable, and polite, ask for ransom, if paid i leave person alone (i let one guy go once as i felt sorry for him and sent him some isk) if not i blow the guy up.
dunno why you have so much anger about it tbh.
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nahia Senne
soon all lvl4 agents will get moved to lowsec. bears will cry bloody murder, but in the end nobody will quit. they will just adapt and learn to play the game.
you talk like pirates and Carebears are different people.
Alot of pirates run missions for cash in either with alts or not.
You also seem to think that no one will quit which im sure is founded on extencive reasearch on Mission runner numbers, player habbits, previous MMO experinces and other such measures .. lol
and what makes you think that mission runners cant play?.. it seems that they play just fine... Unless you want them to learn to play the game you want them to play. But unfortunaty if people are forced to be the duck in your barrel they will quit faster than you can say "OMG Nerf Warp to 0!!!11!1"
Not to be to harsh Nahis but i cant help but think your being a bit selfish and shortsighted.
Anyway if they move lvl4 missions to lowsec then people will just start running lvl3.
It makes no sence to invite a ganking by missioning in lowsec if your aim is to make money.
Better to run lower reward missions in safety.
Even so this change has further upset the risk-reward of not being a pirate in Lowsec.
you better get used to feedign off eachother..
you chase miners out then cry about the belts being empty.
you camp every gate then complein about not enough traffic.
Now i wonder what will happen if you start interuping mission runners... hmmm
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Willo Vasquez
Gallente
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:51:00 -
[46]
I got toasted in a mission by a player, and at first, I couldn't work out how he'd found my mission area so fast. Had a quick chat to him after, found out about the new probes, and treated it as a learning experience. It won't stop me missioning in low sec, but it'll keep me a **** site more awake than I used to be.
Yes, it blows fighting off a player at the same time as having 4 cruisers and a coupld of BS's on your tail, but it adds some spice to the situation. Anyway, what comes around, goes around.....
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Gamesguy
Amarr
Reunited
O X I D E
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xaildaine
Originally by: Nahia Senne
Anyway if they move lvl4 missions to lowsec then people will just start running lvl3.
It makes no sence to invite a ganking by missioning in lowsec if your aim is to make money.
Better to run lower reward missions in safety.
And thats a good thing. It means the foundation of eve, risk=reward, has bee achieved once again. The idiots who go afk in missions can go afk in lvl 3 missions and make 10% as much isk/hour while the people who have a brain continue to make the same 50mil/hour.
Quote:
Even so this change has further upset the risk-reward of not being a pirate in Lowsec.
you better get used to feedign off eachother..
The greatest threat to a lowsec pirate is usually another pirate, so nothing changes.
Quote:
you chase miners out then cry about the belts being empty.
you camp every gate then complein about not enough traffic.
Now i wonder what will happen if you start interuping mission runners... hmmm
No, CCP simply needs to make lowsec more profitable, because right now, other than mission runners, lowsec is too little profit for too much risk.
Make the ore better(or move omber/kernite to lowsec) and move all L4s to lowsec. Now people will actually have an incentive to go there.
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gamesguy
And thats a good thing. It means the foundation of eve, risk=reward, has bee achieved once again. The idiots who go afk in missions can go afk in lvl 3 missions and make 10% as much isk/hour while the people who have a brain continue to make the same 50mil/hour.
Pirates risk alot less than mission runners with the current set up.
You know were he is .. you know what he is tanking.. you know what dammage he is doing.. you know he wont have stabs.. you know he will be preocupied.
hell you dont even need to fire a shot or launch a drone to gank him.. just Nos or if your smart and know the mission .. you can spawn extra waves to break his tank and just scram him.
Where was the risk for the pirate?
where is the Mission runners chance to use his brain to avoid or escape the gank once the mission has begun or god forbid be able to fight back and win with 15 NPCs hammering on him
Originally by: Gamesguy
The greatest threat to a lowsec pirate is usually another pirate, so nothing changes.
Thats mainly because there is going to be noone BUT pirates in lowsec very soon.
Originally by: Gamesguy
No, CCP simply needs to make lowsec more profitable, because right now, other than mission runners, lowsec is too little profit for too much risk.
Make the ore better(or move omber/kernite to lowsec) and move all L4s to lowsec. Now people will actually have an incentive to go there.
dude ... they just made low sec less profitable by making mission runners easly found.
nothing like having to warp out evey 4 mins or getting your ship Ganked to eat into your profits.
Anyway .. what your asking for is not to improove low sec but a Nerf to highsec.
And there is already plenty of omber and kernite in Lowsec.. its just not profitable enough to cover the loss of barges and haulers.
What they need to do is make Lowsec less safe than 0.5 but safer than 0.0
At the moment Lowsec is the most dangerous place you can be if you plan to mission or mine.
Its called low secuity not No security
You wont get people into lowsec by nerfing highsec.. they will just quit.
You just need to fix Low sec so that it isnt the gankbears wetdream it is at the moment
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Bad Borris
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:57:00 -
[49]
Gotta say it bugs the hell outta me to hear people refer to mission runners as carebears. In most cases the only reason a mission runner will be avoiding pvp is because the guy does not have the sp to compete against pirates. This means the guy is a young character so probably doesnt have anywhere near as much isk or assets as the pirate either. The new wcs nerf hurts the mission runner badly and the knock on effect will be less targets for the pirates. Pirates have all the advantage over the guy running missions...
1. More sp (normally)
2. More cash better equipment
3. Ability to choose whether to engage or not
4. In some cases time to plan set up to adjust for mission runners build
5. Often the pirate can engage the mission runner when he is tanking npc's
6. Often pirates will have help a warp away if the mission runner gives him any trouble
And i hear some of you pirates still whining! Tell me who is the carebear......
Alot of pirates (ccp included) wont be happy until you have forced every new player out of low sec and eventually out of the game completely. We all know it takes an absolute age to skill to be an effective pvp player why why why would anybody want to go through the skill tree living soley in high sec or being ganked by a pirate every other day?
Already got wcs nerfed and now with the better probing system eventually you will track them all down and chase them off.....
It remains to be seen whether the new patch will reduce the number of targets for pirates in low sec but with any luck it will. This at least would force some of the pirates to either pirate themselves or head out to 0.0.
Of course if i were a mission runner i would set up frequent pirate gank squads in the system i generally mission in. After a few weeks of ganking the pirates maybe the system would be a little safer. So i guess their are solutions that the mission runner can try.
On the whole though I would say the merciless skill tree is the biggest threat to the longevity of the game and nowhere is the sp difference more apparent than in the situations forced on the noob by pirates. I am not even against the changes to wcs or to probing etc and i certainly dont want to dumb down eve, I just find it hard to accept the argument that there is a class of player that avoids pvp by choice and decides that all they want to do is run missions. By far the majority of them just want to wait before they pvp until the sp is better and conditions are more favorable to them. After all pirates have the advantage of chosing when to fight why shouldnt the mission runner be able to skill in relative peace.
FYI i live in deklein in 0.0 and dont do missions anymore. |
Harlequ1n
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:57:00 -
[50]
The solution is easy, have a low-key Concorde presence. In high sec, Concorde will always respond, very quickly. Low-sec, there is a chance of response, with a time lag and a chance it can be fought off by pirate. 0.0 - No concorde at all. This would graduate the areas of low sec from risky to dangerous based on the amount of law-enforcement there...
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Maurgan
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Harlequ1n
The solution is easy, have a low-key Concorde presence. In high sec, Concorde will always respond, very quickly. Low-sec, there is a chance of response, with a time lag and a chance it can be fought off by pirate. 0.0 - No concorde at all. This would graduate the areas of low sec from risky to dangerous based on the amount of law-enforcement there...
I dunno, but to me, that sounds like a really good idea. This would put a lot more risk on the Pirates giving them two choices. You can either gank in lowsec and worry about light concord issues, or you can do it in 0.0, and worry about whoever has claim on the territory.
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Chin LoPan
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 20:06:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Chin LoPan on 01/12/2006 20:08:46
I find this whole debate facinating, and I think what you have here is a situation that is very similar to a biological predator-prey relationship. When for some reason the advantage slips to the predator (like drought and animals all have to go to limited water holes), the predator enjoys a temporary advantage and the prey get thinned out. But this then returns the balance, when the predators eventually have less prey and they then die off...
So I think this will just be the same thing. Because they can so easily find and kill their prey with little risk, pirates will basically clean out much of their prey in these systems. Since the scanner changes have so drastically change the risk/reward balance for missionrunners and other "carebears" in low sec, their prey there will be reduced when they just don't enter low sec anymore...then the pirates will come upon hard times (OFC, then they will cry again and CCP will give them another nerf like move level 4 agents to low sec).
Personally, I already NEVER accept a mission in low sec...now with the scanner "upgrades"? No way in hell. If I want that kind of risk, I go to 0.0 where the reward is high enough to balance the greater risk. |
Xaildaine
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Chin LoPan
Personally, I already NEVER accept a mission in low sec...now with the scanner "upgrades"? No way in hell. If I want that kind of risk, I go to 0.0 where the reward is high enough to balance the greater risk.
One of the Key problems in EvE today.. is that Lowsec is far more dangerous than 0.0
I wish they would fix this.. Pirates should be out in no sec.. not low sec
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Dr Slice
Beer and Kebabs
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: slothe
pirate e.g. me
1. scan probes location of mission runner.
2. warps to first gate of mission.
3. scans mission type and ship type of mission runner.
4. fits tank knowing what mission runner is firing.
5. fits jammers to jam mission runners ship..
6. if more than 1 gate waits until mission runner is on 2nd or 3rd gate.
7. follows mission runner.
8, engages mission runner (often while mission runner is afk)
9, asks for reasonable ransom.
10. doesnt recieve answer.
11. blows mission runner up and scoops loot.
12. receives angry mail when mission runner has made cup of tea.
man its easy, and fun, id recommend anyone try it.
lol
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:59:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/12/2006 01:00:04
Originally by: Xaildaine
Originally by: Chin LoPan
Personally, I already NEVER accept a mission in low sec...now with the scanner "upgrades"? No way in hell. If I want that kind of risk, I go to 0.0 where the reward is high enough to balance the greater risk.
One of the Key problems in EvE today.. is that Lowsec is far more dangerous than 0.0
I wish they would fix this.. Pirates should be out in no sec.. not low sec
@ 
Pirates should be EVERYWHERE!
(that having been said, scanning is way too easy now  )
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Dahin
Maza Nostra
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dahin
EDIT: 3 demanding cheers so the dev will actually move lvl4 agents into lowsec and not just say they will.
Some people just misinterpreted me. Ishquar got the point.
Even I am not pleased when it is so easy to kill my targets. It's no fun, doesn't require skill, no risk (as in wasting my time) and it will most definitely thin down my prey. I'll be saddened if I see no more CNR's running missions in lowsec.
The whole point I made is that this IS an unbalanced situation, one that will only get worse with the agents moving to lowsec.
But as we know, there is no stronger influence than all the bears slamming the forums. So I guess this will have to happen in order for CCP to realize the weakness of the whole new probing system and adapt it (better like nerf it back to oblivion).
This has nothing to do with missions, probers, or ratters. It has to do with the new system and I don't see nothing one can do to avoid it/get safer. Other problems will soon creep up to the forums with the pvp'ers realizing what this will mean for them.
Back to the random arguments now:
No, there is no sensible way for you to protect yourself from this dear missionrunner, or is just highly unlikely that you will grab that small chance because:
* Ferrets and spooks have a small enough deviation for the attacker to land from off-scanner probe placement to your missiongate. Even if the attacker use snoop probes, you have a window of about 30seconds to see the probes or he has finished his probing and has destroyed the probe.
* Fine you say, I will be far off in the plex. Not really, all he needs to do is see you undocking and warping to the missionarea. Then he just chucks the probe and selects the result placed at the area where you warped off to. The recon launchers, rigs and skills actually will enable the prober to land on your plexgate as soon as you are falling out of warp from the acceleration gate on the other side(max 30 secs launching and probingtime).
I guess in order to be relatively safe, someone would have to drop a can in the warp-in point, set neutral on overview to show as blinking red, get like 40km off the can and always be aligned (to a ss)and edgy.
Actually, now that I think of it, this is not much to ask from a player...
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Layla Ashley
Amarr
Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2006.12.02 03:08:00 -
[57]
well, i'm a mission runner, and i must say i'm happy about this scan probe change. because now i can finaly use faction ships and faction gears for missions, so beeing able to do them a lot faster (well, ofc i'll move into highsec for this, but anyway)...
Btw, i allways read "watch local", "watch local". yea, cool, in local are 50+ ppl. most of them you have never seen bevore (but as often as not there is not a single pirat). so never leave station again?
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ScreamingLord Sutch
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Posted - 2006.12.02 03:18:00 -
[58]
I also considered dropping a unit of ammo at the warp in spot to decloak recons or cov ops.
In addition a common sense procedure is to move away from the warp in point. If a pirate can scan me out and maintain cloak long enough to get close for a tackle then they are welcome to dance on my corpse. They earned it.
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Dahin
Maza Nostra
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.02 19:52:00 -
[59]
tried this today. Yeps, even observators land you on deadspace gates.
You can then scan the targets distance from the warp-in point and decide whether to send in the lachesis or the covops to try to sneak around cloaked.
Worked like a charm.
But unfortunately, it seems this is so popular that the missionrunner numbers are VERY thin. All 7 of em we saw within 3 hours we all attacked, a few survived.
Compared to 6months ago we visited the same place, there were about oh... 50 missionrunners moving about.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:16:00 -
[60]
I just probed out two of my fellow runners with my first fathom probe. Both results were 0m accuracy. And they both were in those dungeon-type missions with no gate. If I had been a pirate in a gang, they both would have been very dead very quick with no chance to do anything about it whatsoever except docking whenever anyone unknown is in system (I used my n00bcorp covops alt to probe)...
And that was with just a standard probe launcher in a skill4 covops and none of the three new skills. With Recon launchers and new skills trained up, it will be even worse. Say good bye to lowsec missions I guess.
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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