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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:30:00 -
[1]
As an advocate of the anti warp to zero campaign I will continue to use insta's aswell as the new types of tactical insta.
This is not about combat there is going to be an economic knock on effect that will take a while to manifest... if ccp was seriously concerned about the issue of bookmarks on the database they would have deleted them regardless before now. There were a multitude of alternative ways of dealing with the lag without resorting to such a drastic action of this, I can't help but feel that warp to zero has been whined into existance, after all what other things in kali are prominent whine topics of the past.... limited T2 bp's and expensive markets. Warp Core Stab's been uber... infact the more and more I look at this patch it feels like a whiners patch.
As for the people that go well u have warp bubbles now... well yes they've been seeded but you can't use them in empire and you can't pull people out of mid warp which they should be able to do.
They are apparently going to be allowed in empire come the next patch.... but I wonder why ccp has decided to hold that back when its probably just a simple attribute alteration.
I can't help but feel that EVE is sneakily developing jedi syndrome.... and frankly I don't want eve to go down like that man it would be a waste of such a good game to give in like that ccp stick true to your core don't listen to the whiners. Build the game like your original vision.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:12:00 -
[2]
One of the issues that hasn't really been considered yet is the fact that now with revelations there will be a lot of autopilot macro's running trade routes and courier missions. People will go yarrrrrrr but you could do that before with insta's anyway. Yes you probably could but the way people and places worked with insta's made it infinitely more complex. Now it would be frankly very simple to macro a warp to zero autopilot. It would also be far harder to detect.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 02/12/2006 22:13:16 The argument "if you don't want to wait that use an interceptor" must be a joke. Dude...what are haulers and freigthters good for then?
Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Slow boating is not acceptable for real people with real lives who play a game for fun. And this is the argument that beats all meta-level game considerations. End of story. Real life wins. You lose.
My fun multiplied manifold with my new global insta set. Good decision.
pftt that sounds like the post of someone who doesn't have patience and wants everything now now now, lemme guess your one of these people that plays fps games with cheats on just so you can get to all the content asap.
The time invested in something gave it more value in game, Trade for example the time shifting stuff back and forth was a big component of its value, now its a couple of minutes just jumping.
Infact im going to go as far to say I reckon that now we have warp to zero lag is going to get worse... why because everyones instaing while traveling the number of session changes per arbitary period of time will increase, this mean database access goes up thus producing lag.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
Quote: Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Ain't that just great? Why don't we just remove all ships and issue a standard SpaceShip I for everyone too? It'd level the playing field and NO ONE WOULD HAVE ANY SPECIAL ADVANTAGE.
You know why? Because simplifying the game does not make it better in any way. If there was no way to travel fast, I'd understand people wanting WTZ, but that is not the case. With WT15, ships that are inheritly mobile and fast travel faster, big slow ships with better firepower on the other hand are slower and more time-consuming. It is a matter of strategy, choice and simple common sense which one you choose.
That point of decision making is now pretty much gone. No one has any special advantage beyond a few seconds of aligning time and another 3-5 seconds of warptime.
Good job CCP. Continue "leveling the playing field". Lets see how far you can dumb the game down until it becomes unbearable due to simplicity. It'll be far shorter than before it becomes unbearable due to long travel times with ships that are supposed to be slow in the first place as a drawback.
Have to Echo Semper here, to vaugely quote foamy the squirrel, im fed up with people dumbing down their idea's for the masses. EVE has worked fine with insta's for years, DO NOT BRING UP THE ISSUE OF LAG THEY CAUSED, that was easily resolvable with out implementing warp to zero, warp to zero coming in and insta lag are in no way related. EVE is reknown in the gaming community for not giving its players an easy ride but making them work a little AND ITS ADMIRED FOR THAT, Start changing systems to suite the masses you give up the uniqueness of the game. Look at other MMO companies that have pulled moves like this.... they are't respected by the gaming community but are frequently mocked and discredited.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: BurnHard
Originally by: Semper Sanguis The word "Lag" does not compute in any WTZ related argument.
If they had removed instas and put in WT15 the problem would have been solved the exact way.
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The vast majority of people are extremely happy with WTZ - the vast majority of those people who aren't happy with WTZ are unhappy because ganking in low sec now requires much more effort than simply parking up by a gate in 0.4 and waiting.
I could also say the vast majority of your vast majority don't want pvp in the game either, should ccp give it to them. You'd probably say yes, but the answer is f*** no simply because it wouldn't be eve anymore it would be WoW in space. Seriously the only reason people are happy with warp to zero is they had the inability to learn to deal with issues such as gate camping by finding alternatives. Why should everyone have the game easy without any work. Seriously if someones not smart enough to stop going through a gate he's been ganked at repeatedly do you reward him?
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Draconia Blackheart
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The greatest and most adventagous "cop-out" the game has ever seen This has gone on for 9 pages and most of you have reinforced the fact that CCP will not be reversing WTZ...so live with it and (as I hear constantly from people who have nothing else to say)..ADAPT!
Above all else CCP/EVE is there to MAKE MONEY..they are a business!
1.) IF they reverse WTZ now, everyone who had a gazillon BMS is gonna quit. and 2.) If they reverse WTZ (people who praise it like me) are gonna guit.
CCP is NOT going to see that kind of money go out the door..Its not about your playstyle, its not about the game. Its about money. Besides the BM lag, EVE is getting alot more in that just 'want to play', 'carebears' if you will, that would rather treat EVE as an empire building game rather than a "deathmatch" game. If this is not to your liking, exercise your right to LEAVE!..
People abused the bookmark system and now cry holy murder when they get spanked for it..
Cheers
lets point out the flaw in your argument... Everyone who disagrees with warp to zero strongly will quit. You'll come back with the argument no they won't they'll just use warp to zero and put up with it. My answer Prove It, Your answer You Can't, My Answer Which also means you can't prove people that praise wtz or people that had a gazillion bookmarks will quit, which in short makes your argument pointless futile and now defunct
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.03 11:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bodziu Simple dont like wtz go like other uses wt15. Most peoples are happy with it WTZ. We are peoples and CCP will not made all happy beacause each persons are random. we all dont like the same thinks that is humanity. I personaly dont like new nerv of the missiles T2 torps but what i can do? I accept it or i can leave game it is simple. Try think in bigger scale like i told early. If you see like i saw fleet battles in 0.0 made by 2 or 3 alliances you will understand that gate bms need be removed beacause they MADE A HUGH LAG in FLEET BATTLES eaven if 100 vs 100 peoples try fight in 1 sector. You ever saw fleet of 100 or more jumping by gate to engage other fleet and havent lags or not cause node crash - beacause they have tons of bms and server need start counting it beacause they are part of the game? I hate peoples who look on this WTZ only from his personal view. Try think in bigger sphere try 28k peoples x tons of bms = hugh needed cpu and ram to handle this disaster. What happen with Eve by last 1.5 year. We get a hugh numbers of players. When i come play again eve it was 10k peoples max now we have around 30k. Try x that with numbers of bms what they start copy to faster travel only for that to not ganked by pirates in empire who made suicide assault on haulers and other ships. After that math you will know how many cpu and ram is take by that bms. I would like see better faster gameplay without bms to gate then complaining on the server speed node crash with bms to gates. Try thinks all who dont like wtz how that can help us all in ours gameplay and lowers a cpu usage. Simple try adept to new gameplay and stop complaining.
Ps. excuse for english
Sorry to burst your bubble but, most people that are anti warp to zero aren't just looking at it from their personal gain/loss only simply because on a single personal level wtz is all benefit. We are considering wider implications.
Im sorry to say though wtz will not affect fleet battle lag in any major way it will still be there will still most likely crash a cluster, simply because it wasn't book mark directly related.
Also another flaw in your logic is that you assume that a huge number of the bookmarks will be deleted.. thats based on the assumption that a high number of the total ammount of bm's are insta's, what if they're not what if people start using tactical book marks instead im gonna take a wild guess and say bookmark production has gone up since the patch. if that is true it basicly means that warp to zero was introduce highly likely having unforseen negative effects on the whole archeture of the game while having no or little effect on lag.
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