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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:27:00 -
[1]
its not just about combat.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:54:00 -
[2]
instas were bad for more reasons that just DB lag.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.30 09:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Crumplecorn As usual people think slow ships should be slow due to being forced out of warp at a distance to the target rather than actually being slow.
actually - i'd be quite happy if they changed warp speeds dramaticaly for ships. and that _modules_ can change the warp speed.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Taurequis It just changes the fact your not going to be able to gank that 1 noob every couple of hours who gets to your gatecamp (which you forgot to bubble) without instas. Big deal.
Buy a bubble. They are on the market now.
Taur
god **** you comeplete and utter idiotic numbskull!!!!
get it through your frikken head - THIS IS NOT ABOUT COMBAT!
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:15:00 -
[5]
I never gate camp - i never sold BM sets, and sometimes spend many many days making insta-routes. I operated in low sec and zero sec, going past and sometimes being stopped by gatecamps regularly. I also fly big slow ships like battleships when needed.
Currently, WTZ makes it easier for me to get my gear across the galaxy for the next base of operations etc.
I STILL hate wtz. IT IS NOT (just) ABOUT COMBAT.
I like my choices in setups to make a difference. Not i may as well always setup full combat settings, or max out cargo - i still get there just as fast 99% of the time as a specialised setup.
I like variety in the market - having local hubs - but now why would anyone bother when its easier to just travel an extra 10-20 jumps to a major trade hub and get everything - and increase lag.
please note - wtz and instas are the same in my book - they have similar game-mechanic effects and introducing wtz hasnt changed any of the game-mechanic problems inherent in instas.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:40:00 -
[6]
I was just about to respond, but you beat me to it james.
there is a strong divide - those who want to just "get to the action and shoot" (who love wtz) and those who want the logistics/choices game (who hate it)
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: BurnHard
I could equally argue the opposite to the "more congestion" point, given that people tend to group manufacture, processing and distribution operartions around major hubs because otherwise it would take half a day to travel there. Human Psychology: people will always come together to trade. There is nothing you can do to stop super-hub development apart from capping the number of players allowed on any given node. This has been true of Eve pretty much from the beginning. The Hub's just move when the effort required to get to them reaches a tipping point. They don't get any smaller (see removal of highways for a good example).
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The removal of highways did spread the market a bit, until people made instas and all went to jita...
Yes, people will make hubs - this is good. But you've got it backwards. If it takes me a day to get somewhere, I will try to go to the marketplace that is closer. If that "day" of travel is reduced to an hour, the "local" market will loose out as its just as convenient to go to the mega place.
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On your second point, alliances are generally more highly motivated than other groups of players - they will get to where they want to go regardless of WTZ. Either with sling-shot interceptors or instas. Some may also argue that this is threatening to large alliances, because small gangs can move around their space with greater ease.
but if you make it easier, they will expand until it takes the same amount of work. If it takes X amount of co-ordination and motivation to secure 20 systems, If the travel issues becomes more efficient they can control even more.
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On your final point (and related to the alliance security paragraph above), you have not noticed the WCS nerf and an extremely large deployable bubble included in the upgrade?
Oh god - the wcs never had any affect on bubbles - but I do like that nerf :) As to the mega-bubbles... scary things. But totally offtopic (and impossible to use in empire where my biggest concerns are - where most of the markets are)
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:28:00 -
[8]
ITS NOT JUST ABOUT THE FRIKEN COMBAT OR PIRATING.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 10:48:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Varis on 02/12/2006 10:57:38 Edited by: Varis on 02/12/2006 10:54:57 Edited by: Varis on 02/12/2006 10:51:52 nanobotter - instabookmarks were bad anyway - precisely because they sped the game up - they changed the value of modules, ships etc because they made certain setups good, and other bad.
It was, practically, an exploit - a game changing non intended feature.
even if it gave no DB problems, they still should have been removed.
I already saw the effects of instas - and it was bad - so how can you expect me to like giving free instas to everyone?
when instas started being used - it gave the person who had them an "unfair" advantage over those who didn't have them, as the people with instas can move more equipment and better equipped ships around faster. If you can move cruisers and battleship and industrials at a speed with instas that takes an interceptor to match without - yes, instas make a BIG difference. and YES you need to use instas to then compete against those who have them.
So yeah, now the game is "on an equal footing", cause now no-one needs to seriously consider logistics.
the game is loosing something that is valued by some people.
How about if you gave every gun 100 damage, and 1 sec rate of fire... and removed all skills that effected damage or rof? it also "levels the playing field" but it would be a bad change...
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:29:00 -
[10]
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 15:43:00 -
[11]
hmm.. consider this
what if: when you set an enemy into your buddies, and set their standing to exactly -5.5 - all your shots would automatically do wrecking damage on every hit.
result: everyone would set every person in eve to -5.5 to get full damage. Not to do so would be stupid, because you would be fighting gimped by comparison... the DB would take a bit hit as everyone would have their buddies list getting very very big...
answer? equivalent to wtz - CCP makes it that all shots automatically do wrecking damage - negating everything about tracking.. yes, easier game, everyone on equal standing again.
good idea?
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 20:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 7 Well i like it and not specifically cuz it makes flying through low sec safer but because it shortens travels to unbookmarked places.
umm, thats sorta why we're complaining. - mainly that it shortens travel time to everyone - not just those who fit for it.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:28:00 -
[13]
well, that the only thing going for it in my eyes - that there will be no longer anything to "work around" as it'll be impossible to move any faster.......
The BMs are still in game at the moment - although that'll be gone next tuesday (hopefully)
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.03 18:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: mallina not a fan of warp to 0.
yes, i use it. yes, its convieniant and its nice and easy to go that 29 jumps without breaking a sweat, but I dont believe its good for the game.
I mean, wheres the diversity? why bother buying that Drake for 53mil when you can insta 20 jumps to jita in a shuttle (even through lowsec with zero risk) and get it for 47? what warp to 0 does is make life harder for a lot of people in the long term, ESPECIALLY T1 Ship Producers who are forced to compete with Jita prices no matter where in empire space they might be. Why should they buy your Raven for 110 when they can travel to jita and get it for 102?- bearing in mind the ship costs about 98 to build with current (and rising) mineral prices, so theres not much profit to be had with that. Easier to just run a few missions or chain NPCs in 0.0 ...and then of course there's less people losing ships in lowsec, so less replacements are needed, etc
Don't get me wrong, warp to 0km does have benefits and does help newer players a lot, but it also takes an important element away from the game that I feel was what makes EVE what it is. I never agreed with Instas for many of the same reasons(though at least they costed something), but warp to 0km is just a copout solution to solve bookmark lag whilst keeping the majority of EVE happy in fear that people would cancel their accounts otherwise (like many have childishly threatened to do, which i think is pathetic)
nicely said.
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