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Fley Allstar
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:11:00 -
[1]
As mentioned, life as a trader with the current auction system is practically non-existent.
While the auction/item exchange system is great, i find it A LOT easier to look for faction mods/bpcs and to sell them using the old escrow system! Please CCP, add back the old escrow system while retaining the new system for any who might use it?
/signed
Fley
p/s Comon fellas, let's all sign it and ask CCP back for our dear escrow system (T_T)
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Extregar Qvint
Caldari
JuBa Corp
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Posted - 2006.11.30 10:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Extregar Qvint on 30/11/2006 10:18:29
Not too fond of the old escrow system with its stupid spamming of 30 identical items at once, but yea... Some radical changes need to be made to contracts for it to work as a trade tool.
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Ferrosa
Gallente
Lyonesse Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.30 11:58:00 -
[3]
Stop the whining about the new system, bloody hell 
You will get used to it.
- It's easier to put up auctions, sales, couriers and item exchanges.
- You can link them in chat.
- It's prettier.
- It's more efficient.
- It reduces server load.
- much, much more
The only reason why you people are whining is because it's
a) limiting your SPAM SPAM escrow sales
b) making you pay taxes, which is perfectly normal and should have been implemented a long time ago
Solution for a):
- Make packages
- Sell items for shorter periods
- Sell regular items on regular market if possible
- Get organised.
Now lock this baby up please.
Official broker at the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange |
Vix3n
Distribution Solutions
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2006.11.30 13:19:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ferrosa
Stop the whining about the new system, bloody hell
You will get used to it.
- It's easier to put up auctions, sales, couriers and item exchanges.
- You can link them in chat.
- It's prettier.
- It's more efficient.
- It reduces server load.
- much, much more
The only reason why you people are whining is because it's
a) limiting your SPAM SPAM escrow sales
b) making you pay taxes, which is perfectly normal and should have been implemented a long time ago
Solution for a):
- Make packages
- Sell items for shorter periods
- Sell regular items on regular market if possible
- Get organised.
Now lock this baby up please.
*Applause*
Signed,
"I almost jumped to lightspeed in my pants." |
SencneS
Amarr
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
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Posted - 2006.11.30 17:52:00 -
[5]
Yes, lock this thread, the new system is much more usable for shoppers. AKA you're buyers, what would you rather?
Make it easier for you to advertise but considerably more difficult for your customers, or make it easier for your customers to buy your stuff.
If you answer the "Easier for you" I'll make it a point to NEVER purchase from you, your ignorance to usability for your customer is unworthy of my ISK.
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James Cathin
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Posted - 2006.11.30 18:31:00 -
[6]
if u want the old escrow then u dont know how to play this game.
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Ngwee
Gallente
7 SAI
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Posted - 2006.11.30 20:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ngwee on 30/11/2006 21:02:54
Dear ! Ive been playing for over 2 years, I only used escrow to look for officer, deadspace, and faction modules.
I tried to look at what was available today - and guess what I found - a pretty interface that took me over half an hour to just plow through all available items for sale or auction or whatever in ONE region.
Previously thanks to an arrange by alphabet option I could go through an entire list looking for my favourites in under 5 minutes.
So guess what - a part of EVE I really enjoyed - and also helped me keep on top of current pricing is now gone.
Not leaving - yet.
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Enkilil
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:38:00 -
[8]
While the layout is pretty nice, the ability to browse effectively has pretty much been shot in the foot. It's going to have to have the global back before it will be useful again.
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mechtech
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Posted - 2006.11.30 22:41:00 -
[9]
Auctions need to be global or NPC sovereignty limited.
The only good thing about escrow (didnt have to be close to a hub to get sales) is now gone.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.30 23:11:00 -
[10]
Why are you compaining NOW? Too late.
Yes, all old escrow needed was a search function. Now, you're stuffed - go into the trade channel and sell it yourself, the hard way. Yes, CCCP have nerfed Eve's market AGAIN.
//Maya |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 01:41:00 -
[11]
They just need to reintroduce an option to view the contracts more like a list. The increase in fees and the new options are all great I just think the interface is terrible.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 01:58:00 -
[12]
How is making the system useless an improvement? The UI is one of the MANY reasons why it is not worth using.
//Maya |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 02:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
How is making the system useless an improvement? The UI is one of the MANY reasons why it is not worth using.
The addition of features which EVE has needed but has been lacking since launch (assuming they actually work, haven't had any time to test them); auctions, remote item exchange, loans are all improvements.
The UI itself in addition to the lack of global listing is the reason they these improvements are not worthwile. The increased fees are a good thing, the increase information available is potentially a good thing. It is all, however, completely useless since it is not user friendly.
Why do you think the systme would still be bad even if they made the UI useable and/or added an option to view it like old escrow?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2006.12.01 02:51:00 -
[14]
I think the UI is quite intuitive, but obviously needs a few additions and improvements. Oveur has already mentioned a few are coming, such as being able to search by category rather than specific item (which would be good if it happened to not be region-specific (hint-hint)), and I'm sure when they come we'll have an extremely powerful tool at our disposal.
Overall it's a step in the right direction, people just need to adapt to the change.
| BMBE ISK Loans | the all mighty BIG industrial corp from hell with a slong the size of a walrus... |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/12/2006 03:37:57
Baun, if ypu're for the addition of features, why the HECK are you supportuing the removal of the USEFUL escrow for the useless "contracts"?
The non-global is the CORE of this new system and CCP hve made it 100% clear it won't be changing. That alone makes it useless, because all that happens is that unless you're willing to have a second account permermantly logged into jita it's not useless for selling items.
This "replacement" is a nerf, nothing more. When the old system is in every way better (you can do auctions on the forums allready, thanks!)...
Ray McCormack, yes, STOP USING THOSE FEATURES. That is the ONLY POSSIBLE adaption which won't waste everyones time. As NAGA have allready accnowledged, the only way to run trades with this system is to have customers come and directly trade with you. Escrow was a powerful tool. This is a removal of its tool, evem if it became "powerful", it is BY DESIGN crippled so it cannot even start competing in 1% of the usefulness of escrow.
More people into Jita. Can't sell faction items (might as well use em and sell the named, frankly), etc. etc. etc. etc.
//Maya |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/12/2006 03:37:57
Baun, if ypu're for the addition of features, why the HECK are you supportuing the removal of the USEFUL escrow for the useless "contracts"?
I am not for the removal of the useful escrow features. In my mind the most useful aspect was the ease of sorting and finding things and a distant second the global nature of the system. The "global" escrow was never really global because it cut off most of the available items. As a result everyone had to go to Jita because thats the only place people could be assured they could find everything on the region only or system only list.
The increased fees are good except that there are obvious issues with BPC selling. The increased options are good. The interface makes it all useless and it needs to be changed ASAP.
Quote:
The non-global is the CORE of this new system and CCP hve made it 100% clear it won't be changing. That alone makes it useless, because all that happens is that unless you're willing to have a second account permermantly logged into jita it's not useless for selling items.
I don't think this is much of a change for the reasons given. This will absolutely force people to use one or two hubs just like the last system did. The only reason its less useful is because its completely impossible to find out what is actually available in an efficient manner even if you go to the right place where everyone puts up the contracts.
Quote:
This "replacement" is a nerf, nothing more. When the old system is in every way better (you can do auctions on the forums allready, thanks!)...
Forum auctions suck. If there is one good thing about WoW (theoretically at least ... I don't actually play it) was the auction system built into the game. This was desperately needed. Scrolling through a list in the game is alot easier than trying to run forum searches and pouring over poorly named and non-standarized auctions on the boards.
Quote:
As NAGA have allready accnowledged, the only way to run trades with this system is to have customers come and directly trade with you. Escrow was a powerful tool. This is a removal of its tool, evem if it became "powerful", it is BY DESIGN crippled so it cannot even start competing in 1% of the usefulness of escrow.
I am not well versed in this aspect of the system. How does setting personal escrows work now with contracts?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:58:00 -
[17]
Baun, Global escrow is GONE. It really dosn't matter what you thought of it tbh. CCP never back down on this sort of nerf. That the old system had minor flaws in terms of cutting off did NOT mean that escrowing items to someone specific halfway across Eve wasn't useful.
The increased fees are NOT good. Fees in themselves are NOT inherently useful, unless there is an inflation issue. Eve does not have such, and indeed the shrinking of the market this is going to cause (especially because BPC's are now largely a waste of time) is going to decrease any such margin far further. There are ZERO additional options, because it's not useable.
Change the interface? Maybe they'll have some marginal tweaks in Kali 2. Maybe. Dosn't matter, the damage to the market is being done NOW.
You're STILL going to have to use forum auctions. You cannot sell enough items via this system, it depends on a broken UI, it is expensive etc. etc. Forum actions might "suck", but they remain by far the better idea. That they've build a system which is NOT useful into the game and called it an "auction" is not progress, sorry.
I *can* find things on the forums. I *can* sort, I *can* search. In-game "auctions", I cannot. This really isn't a hard concept. The only way they will shift the auctions of anyone smart into game is banning them on these forums, and then they'll move to 3rd party sites and the trade channel.
"I am not well versed in this aspect of the system. How does setting personal escrows work now with contracts?"
As far as our testing shows, it simply does not do so reliably, and items have allready been lost this way. Hence, unusable. (And it is STILL limited to the same overall limit, so still isn't useful on that score either...)
Escrow's gone, and we have something useless in its place. That's all there is to it afaik. Nerfed.
//Maya |
Ray McCormack
BIG
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:02:00 -
[18]
The equivalent of personal escrows under contracts costs you 10,000ISK. That can ofc be passed on to the end user. The problem is that you'r now limited to how many open contracts you can have.
| BMBE ISK Loans | the all mighty BIG industrial corp from hell with a slong the size of a walrus... |
Ares Splinter
Dark Technocracy
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:06:00 -
[19]
The new system is great, except we should not be restricted to only searching one region at a time. This is VERY time consuming & not beneficial for the buyer OR the seller.
"Life either shrinks or expands in proportion to ones courage." |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:23:00 -
[20]
Given that we are talking about the difference between the new and old system, how is the actual utility of the old system irrelevant?
Global escrow essentially did not exist. The only sense in which it was actually useable was to transfer goods remotely between two people who were aware of when the escrow was going up.
Because the escrows timed out everyone was forced to go to hub systems. The same thing will be true now. Nothing has changed in this respect.
If they fix the UI and allow remote private escrows the system will be better than the old one. Of course, given how painfully slow CCP are in updating things it means the EVE market is bassically ****** for the next 4-5 months at least.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:35:00 -
[21]
Baun... Eh? The old system is GONE. The *ONLY* thing that matters is what the new system can do. And it can't.
Global escrow DID exist. You could claim things in other regions. Highly sigificant, especially when you were in deep 0.0, and still able to claim escrows in Empire. Very useful, in fact. Again, simply removed.
You did not need to touch a hub system. Now you do. Or rather, there is no point doing so because it's a waste of time - the "correct" method is now to meet the seller personally and direct trade.
"Fixing" the UI won't happen - they WILL NOT allow global views or claiming, etc... they WILL NOT raise the limits, they WILL NOT make private item sending under the new system not use one of your very very limited slots.
The damage is being done NOW. NAGA is probably going to dump onto the general market. You're going to very rapidly have only the market, and private alliance sales. T2 prices are probably going to jump again except for the big alliance. And, and, and.
Supply contacts are ruined, moon materials are piling up. The economy is one more being both bottlenecked and crammed into a smaller space. The new system is worthless, damaging to Eve...and will remain so.
//Maya |
mechtech
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:04:00 -
[22]
Am I the only one who finds it funny that the contract system killed contracts?
The frontside of the UI needs to get 10x simpler, put the complicated stuff behind show info, or on mouse overs, like the new universe map.
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Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: mechtech
The frontside of the UI needs to get 10x simpler, put the complicated stuff behind show info, or on mouse overs, like the new universe map.
YES
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Baun... Eh? The old system is GONE. The *ONLY* thing that matters is what the new system can do. And it can't.
If the only thing that matters is what the new system can and cannot do why are you acting like the world has ended and making lots of arguments based on what the old system could and could not do?
Of course the old system is relevant in this discussion. We are trying to determine if the new system is an improvement or not.
You seem to be making the argment that it is worse in every way. While I agree with your criticisms, I think that the added features are an improvement over the lack thereof. You don't seem particularly interested in discussing any possitive aspect of the new system. That sort of attitude will make convincing people of the neccsity of change rather difficult.
Quote:
Global escrow DID exist. You could claim things in other regions. Highly sigificant, especially when you were in deep 0.0, and still able to claim escrows in Empire. Very useful, in fact. Again, simply removed.
This is not "global escrow" this is "ability to remotely transfer goods between two parties present at the time of escrow". Global escrow in the true sense, i.e being able to see everything on escrow everywhere in EVE, stopped working a few weeks after people started using escrow.
Quote:
You did not need to touch a hub system. Now you do. Or rather, there is no point doing so because it's a waste of time - the "correct" method is now to meet the seller personally and direct trade.
When you wanted a specific item that was not market available what did you do? Sit for weeks on end looking at the global escrow list and trying to figure out the right prices and then hoping you found another item with the right price after you determined what it was? Of course you didn't do this.
Everyone went to Jita and looked at the available items to get pricing ideas and see what was available. Jita was the hub, there was no real global anything. This has not changed meaningfully except that the UI is TERRIBLE so its just harder to find things.
Quote:
"Fixing" the UI won't happen - they WILL NOT allow global views or claiming
Allowing global views or global claiming is not part of the UI discussion. I want to be able to find specific items and sort alphabetically and to have the complicated info hidden until I want it. The current UI is a joke because it is completely unorganized. Escrow was very basic but it allowed you to find exactly what you wanted if the items were named properly. The new system tells you what is definitely there but it doesn't allow for real searching. In that respect the new system has more potential to be useful for sorting and searching but they just flubbed the implimentation.
Quote:
, etc... they WILL NOT raise the limits, they WILL NOT make private item sending under the new system not use one of your very very limited slots.
They may not, but they should.
Quote:
The damage is being done NOW. NAGA is probably going to dump onto the general market. You're going to very rapidly have only the market, and private alliance sales. T2 prices are probably going to jump again except for the big alliance. And, and, and.
I suppose this is a separate discussion, but I think if other supplier "dumped" onto the open market this would significantly lower market prices by increasing market supply while only slightly increasing market demand.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Dkiler
Gallente
Dkiller Delta Force Corp.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:45:00 -
[25]
Get our old "Escrow Black Market" back now !!!
We want PVP trading not only NPC !!!
Signed /
*Crusaider of the EBM 
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General Meridus
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:21:00 -
[26]
Frankly I'd like to be able to see every item on the regular market.
That being said, I like the new auction system. The free form private contracts look promising. I havent' quite figured out the "loan" stuff yet. There are some nice features here, although I agree its tedious looking through everything. I think some of you are not realizing, that many consumers like myself, found the old system was well beyond what I was willing to scroll through.
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Dimitri Chandler
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:16:00 -
[27]
Escrow was perfection in campable, market form.
I loved it.
Fluffled -Suvetar |
Admiral Ryoko
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:55:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Admiral Ryoko on 01/12/2006 09:56:24
/Signed
I would suggest that the old escrow be brought back, alongside the current contracts system (which does have its uses).
The new system allows u to search for particular items. Good.
The new system allows u to set up auctions. Great.
The new system allows u to use it when u r in space. Terrific.
However..
The new system charges tax.
Normal you say? Try setting up a contract for a Thanatos and cry at the Tax. And you can't even get it back if no one bought your nice Thanatos. Shift it to the customer? Okay, so this system ends up making sellers poorer even before transaction and customers poorer if transaction occurs. Cool.
The new system have nice-looking UI.
Nice. But try looking at it more than 10mins u can start digging your eyeballs out. It's nice but i would prefer to see 100 lines of escrow description with inspection available in one page than 25 columns of words+pictures with nothing really useful in the end.
The new system is anti-scam.
Hoho, guess wat.. Scams have evolved with Relevations.
The new system eliminates the Black Market available to players.
This is bad. Very bad. Players who do trading/reselling on the old escrow system would know what i mean. Making isk via trading/reselling is gonna be a thing of the past if we allow this system to continue. (without giving us the old escrow system back)
The new system has minimum bid of 1M.
There goes my BPC business. Sell in bulk? So in the end the customer ends up buying more bpcs than he needs. Terrific waste of resources.
Just my 2 cents.
Really hope to get the old escrow system back to co-exist with the current system. The current system really is useful with contractual agreements and ingame auctions. But really, escrow should be brought back to make Eve a better place for market economies.
Admiral R.
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Soporo
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:44:00 -
[29]
<-- Just your ordinary customer here.
My Market take since Rev: Easy to sell, impossible to find.
Cannot find a specific **** thing without major effort. I cannot be the only one. So people are not finding your orders.
Lets hope their "fix" coming is SOON. |
MORRS
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:35:00 -
[30]
The new escrow system added some nice features that are very useful to the game and to a seller. But it took away the ability for someone to make a profit because you can not sell to everyone. Your limited to a region and while in that region for somoe one to find your product is nearly impossible because you can not sort by description. And the item lines now take up 4 or 5 lines for each item. There is no simple list, the 5 minute check for stuff now turns into hours and hours of searching. and with that, now you have to do it for each and every region. How is this better? It sucks, an easy and efficient way of trading and selling of BPC's and other stuff is gone from the game. I want it back.
I don't post in forums normally because of the forum warriors who try to proclaim their extreem intelligence by degrading the poster. I do enjoy however, constructive discussions to fix problems and intelligent ideas that lead to nice game enhancements.
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