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Newbros and Eve going forward

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Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:15:46 - [1] - Quote Good morning everyone, I just want to discuss the state of new players and what they mean to Eve online. First: As a relatively new player as far as play time, I don't feel that Eve is inaccessible, rather that the amount of information needed to be successful in eve in mind boggling. Of course new players can be successful when starting out, no matter what role in Eve they pursue, but the ease that they get taken advantage of is crazy. Second: There are so many complex systems in Eve that will completely screw you if you don't understand them. Everything to the security system, to the market can completely destroy hours of work for a new player. Sure learning for new players is good, but sometimes it is crushing and down right will breaking what happens to players. Third: Now it is story time. Over the last week there has been a pretty large newbro corp created due to the streamer Arumba starting it. This is something that Eve really needs, hundreds of new players joining and creating content and learning the game. However, high sec wardecs I think need to be changed to allow new players to not get roffle-stomped into the ground. Being extorted by high-sec corps for isk when they are in tier 3s, and we have exclusively tier 1 frigates for the most p[art is a huge killjoy to all involved. Sunday fighting against the wardec was fine. We were fine with losing 600 ships and teaching people how to play the game, but being completely blockade makes doing anything further unreasonable and ineffective. Closing: I am not asking to remove high-sec war decs. I think it is quite fun, and like I said I am fine with grinding ships into people that are stronger than us and I believe everyone else agrees. I just think it should be changed in some way to allow new players to actually access the trade hubs. We want to create content, and we want to die and learn, but not being able to move resources is destroying anything we want to do. (Note: There are other systems that could be tweaked, like scamming newbros, highsec ganking for fun, etc. This just seems like a big obvious one to new high sec corps.) Also any tips are greatly appreciated. Like I said I am fairly new, and I know there are things that we can do to ease the situation, but supplying 350~ new pilots is fairly hard. TL:DR: noobs whining about systems that make it hard to learn.
Carrie-Anne Moss Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 291	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:21:46 - [2] - Quote Eve has survived for 12years griefing newbros. We dont need to change now. What is up with all this save the children crap lately? Eve dont need more newbros bro
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:23:39 - [3] - Quote So you want people to continually leave until there is no one left? New people means new content. Do you not understand how games work?
0bama Barack Hussein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 50	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:25:46 - [4] - Quote Everybody here has been newbro once, so each new player needs to suffer through all that we did earlier, too. Though it would help to really hand held new players to introduce different kinds of mechanics and interfaces. How the hell should new player know what "corporation" button does? Or "Enlist me (to FW)"?
Renegade Heart Carebear Miners R Us 448	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:26:11 - [5] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: I am not asking to remove high-sec war decs. I think it is quite fun, and like I said I am fine with grinding ships into people that are stronger than us and I believe everyone else agrees. I just think it should be changed in some way to allow new players to actually access the trade hubs. We want to create content, and we want to die and learn, but not being able to move resources is destroying anything we want to do. I saw what happened in Amarr last night, and firstly, I have to say I am very impressed with the effort you guys put into killing that Loki. With the kind of numbers you managed to assemble, and tweaking your fleet doctrine, you could really achieve some fun stuff! Sento Ormand wrote: Also any tips are greatly appreciated. Like I said I am fairly new, and I know there are things that we can do to ease the situation, but supplying 350~ new pilots is fairly hard. Now for my tip. I understand how moving stuff in war is hard, but that is one of the points of it. If you want to be in a player-corp then you have to accept the consequences. But, these consequences need not be as hard as you seem to think they are! You can always roll another character on a spare slot, and quite quickly train them for the minimum needed to haul in high sec, whilst remaining in an NPC corp. So, this would let your main character stay in the war, and give you freedom to move things about too! It is not impossible.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 880	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:28:07 - [6] - Quote There is a thread for this already, somewhere else. You're the nth person who doesn't understand that threads like this just get locked. Further more do you have no ground to speak, as you're too new to form an educated opinion anyway. The absolutely LAST thing CCP should do is to listen to all the new players who want this game to be like all the other games. You're not even thinking this through. There's all kinds of "new people" and not all of them belong here or are good for the game. What we DON'T need is someone who feels like he should gather hundreds of noobs and then can't even win wars or at least have fun with it. Anyone who claims that new players are no assets in a wardec is either clueless or a liar! War decs are ways for natural selection. The issue isn't them, the issue is CEOs who absolutely SHOULD NOT create a new player corporation, because they can't even defend them! And new players can, as easily as everyone else, create instadock and instaundock bookmarks. Again, there's no issue with anything but the CEO who doesn't teach properly. TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
raspil Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:33:55 - [7] - Quote Part of the appeal of Eve was not being spoon fed and learning how to play the game. The internet has a wealth of knowledge regarding the game, if someone can't be bothered to follow ingame tutorials / google search / youtube / forums / ingame help chat then not much you can do. It's not the game it's the player, I knew what I was getting into before I played eve.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:34:37 - [8] - Quote Thanks Renegade. I have alts and am hauling, but for the new players it is hard. Angelica you are the one not thinking this through. Especially from a game dev perspective. If you read what I said you will notice I am suggesting changes, and not even giving what they should be since I am still pretty new. You are also wrong, saying someone "shouldn't be here" is exactly the wrong attitude and I guarantee CCP disagrees with you. Having someone bring hundreds of newbros to the game is exactly what CCP and Eve need. It drums up huge amounts of content and news for the game. You are telling me from day one you kicked everyone's ass you fought against and knew everything about the game? Quit being an armchair warrior and think about the game you play.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:36:56 - [9] - Quote Raspil if you think the career missions and opportunities are enough to teach someone about the game you are insane. Plus no one wants to put in 20-30 hours of reading and research to get started in a game. I am not suggesting being spoon fed, I am suggesting allowing us to learn the game easier. We want to lose ships and learn the game in the funnest way possible. I am not sure if you all are aware, but it is a game, not a job. The point is to have fun.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11738	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:38:18 - [10] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: Eve has survived for 12years griefing newbros. We dont need to change now. What is up with all this save the children crap lately? Eve dont need more newbros bro #1 EVE needs more newbros, the right kind though, not the kind that see 'barriers' but the kind that see 'challenges' #2 I bolded the word that makes no sense. Lately? This EVE version of "Think of the Children" has literally been an every day thing on this forum since 2003.
Do Little Red Frog Freight Red-Frog 40	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:39:28 - [11] - Quote Supplying a corporation at war is actually very easy. Create a second character on your account, Give that character one of the exploration frigates - Probe, Heron, etc... leave them in an NPC corp and let them haul stuff for you. Or skill them to fly a basic T1 industrial if you need greater capacity. A permanent war model where you keep your haulers in NPC corporations is quite common in Eve. You can also contract someone to haul the goods for a fee.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 880	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:42:42 - [12] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: Thanks Renegade. I have alts and am hauling, but for the new players it is hard. Angelica you are the one not thinking this through. Especially from a game dev perspective. If you read what I said you will notice I am suggesting changes, and not even giving what they should be since I am still pretty new. You are also wrong, saying someone "shouldn't be here" is exactly the wrong attitude and I guarantee CCP disagrees with you. Having someone bring hundreds of newbros to the game is exactly what CCP and Eve need. It drums up huge amounts of content and news for the game. You are telling me from day one you kicked everyone's ass you fought against and knew everything about the game? Quit being an armchair warrior and think about the game you play. Yeah but there's no need to have anyone protected, not even newbros. Wardecs need a change, yes, to make sure people can't just drop corp from it. And you can't be taking seriously if you assume that the quality of the player matters less than the quantity of the players. You're not giving yourself any ground to speak, because 10.000 WoWlers joining EVE will be 10.000 players who will not like this game, no matter what. Demanding changes, because they're so many, will remove the tens of thousands of other players who would not want that. So, again, you're wrong in your general approach of "every new player is a good thing". You're also wrong in thinking that you have a right to go into tradehubs during a war. That right depends on if they let you. And beyond that are there ways to get in and out without having to resort to alts, even during a war. TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 866	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:44:14 - [13] - Quote Highsec is cancer ... move to lowsec with your corp. Lowsec has a simple rule, everybody is out there to shoot other players - believe me, this is much easier to accommodate to as the inconsistent uncertainty of highsec with the rules rigged towards the aggressor. I'm my own NPC alt.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 880	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:45:40 - [14] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Highsec is cancer ... move to lowsec with your corp. Lowsec has a simple rule, everybody is out there to shoot other players - believe me, this is much easier to accommodate to as the inconsistent uncertainty of highsec with the rules rigged towards the aggressor. From what I've seen in my thread about lowsec, lowsec is the best place to be. It's definitely more of "the game" than all the other space. TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 917	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:55:28 - [15] - Quote You probably need OOC hauler and good set of bookmarks for your home station. Then seed items there for your newbros. That is the way for newbs to access market you're asking for, I suppose.
Falken Falcon 32109	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:56:09 - [16] - Quote Noobs who are joining corps and pvping? Nice Here, have a like. Aye, Sea Turtles
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 12:58:54 - [17] - Quote Angelica you are definitely wrong. You are talking as a player, not a dev. New players are almost objectively a good thing in the eyes of a dev, and should be as players. You all lose nothing for new players coming into the game. More content and more mistakes to exploit. Sure some players won't make it, but Eve doesn't give players a chance in a lot of ways.
Renegade Heart Carebear Miners R Us 449	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:00:06 - [18] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: Plus no one wants to put in 20-30 hours of reading and research to get started in a game. In my case, the complexity was one of the things that attracted me to the game. I'm still learning things now.
Zealous Miner 273	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:00:21 - [19] - Quote If you really care about the newbros you will shoot them just like you would anyone else. You will show them what kind of game EVE really is. You will baptize them in fire and prepare them for the harshness that is New Eden. Otherwise you're just lying to them. You're setting them up for future failure and disappointment. You're making them believe it's a safe place when they're still in little cheap ships so they can pull out their expensive bling boats and loot pi+¦atas later on and lose everything they've worked for in an instant. Everything they've worked for gone because of a misconception or a misunderstanding about what kind of game they signed up for. You're trying to gain and keep their patronage under false pretenses. Sounds like to me you're the one taking advantage of them. Show a newbie you care. Shoot them today. Fedo. Fedo? Fedo!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11740	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:03:28 - [20] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: Angelica you are definitely wrong. You are talking as a player, not a dev. New players are almost objectively a good thing in the eyes of a dev, and should be as players. You all lose nothing for new players coming into the game. More content and more mistakes to exploit. Sure some players won't make it, but Eve doesn't give players a chance in a lot of ways. And yet here we are. That means there are at least some people who like it. Hell many of us started playing when the game was WAY harder (oddly enough, the game GREW then, now with kinder-gentler EVE....not so much), People like you mean well, but you got it backwards. Dumbing down the game (make no mistake, this is what you are advocating) doesn't help new players who wouldn't make it anyways, while at the same time it turns off experienced players who like a complex game.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:07:35 - [21] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Sento Ormand wrote: Angelica you are definitely wrong. You are talking as a player, not a dev. New players are almost objectively a good thing in the eyes of a dev, and should be as players. You all lose nothing for new players coming into the game. More content and more mistakes to exploit. Sure some players won't make it, but Eve doesn't give players a chance in a lot of ways. And yet here we are. That means there are at least some people who like it. Hell many of us started playing when the game was WAY harder (oddly enough, the game GREW then, now with kinder-gentler EVE....not so much), People like you mean well, but you got it backwards. Dumbing down the game (make no mistake, this is what you are advocating) doesn't help new players who wouldn't make it anyways, while at the same time it turns off experienced players who like a complex game. That is not true at all. You all clearly know nothing about game design. You have to teach people how to play the game, Eve doesn't do that. There should always be a learning period in the game. Core things about Eve are not taught and it is a huge week point.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 880	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:11:22 - [22] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: Angelica you are definitely wrong. You are talking as a player, not a dev. New players are almost objectively a good thing in the eyes of a dev, and should be as players. You all lose nothing for new players coming into the game. More content and more mistakes to exploit. Sure some players won't make it, but Eve doesn't give players a chance in a lot of ways. Well, no, I actually don't make superficial comments about people like you do. I don't want dumb people come here ruin the game. I understand that quality is important. Unlike you I can think deep enough to actually understand what I am talking about. This thread is redundant. The same useless waste of time like the others, maybe even made by one of the usual suspects. You people have no opinion worth caring about, because you efen fail at the most basic thing: thinking things through properly. TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 880	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:15:21 - [23] - Quote I'll close this with the following>: tthere is nothing ever too hard to learn, there's only people too dumb to learn. TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Renegade Heart Carebear Miners R Us 451	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:16:34 - [24] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: That is not true at all. You all clearly know nothing about game design. You have to teach people how to play the game, Eve doesn't do that. There should always be a learning period in the game. Core things about Eve are not taught and it is a huge week point. How come CCP managed to make the best game in the world then? I'm being entirely subjective here, but I do not even play any other games anymore. They don't appeal to me. The game has got a lot easier already. If they slide too far down that path, they will destroy it completely and lose a lot of the existing playerbase who carried on beyond the first few hard moments. Perhaps you think that enabling some kind of extra protection for new players who happen to get themselves into a war would improve things, but I think you do not realise what kind of game this is. Veteran trolls would surely exploit it for a start. Also, this is completely disregarding that the necessary protections against war already exist in the game.
Divine Entervention The Retired Officers Club 541	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:17:54 - [25] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: I'll close this with the following>: tthere is nothing ever too hard to learn, there's only people too dumb to learn. I dunno man, hieroglyphics are pretty fierce. And dudes thousands of years knew what all those letters meant while we today think every other word is related to an obsession with cats. Which now that I think about it, if their public postings are anything like what we do today, they probably all are about cats.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:18:11 - [26] - Quote I am thinking them through. I am also hear to discuss and you were the one who started the bigotry. I want to make the game better. You are sitting at a privileged position in the game where the results of this make no difference to you and maybe hurt you. Everyone that has commented saying the newbros don't need help only say that because you are in the business of taking advantage of them. This is an exact analogue to U.S. politics in which the people that are in power want to keep the ignorant at a disadvantage to keep life good for themselves. Saying new players don't deserve a period to explore the game in an at least somewhat safe environment is bred by either stupidity or malice. I am fine with the complexity, I am fine with the downright dirty nature of the game. I am not fine with the way new players are constantly treated in a game that is as great as this one is.
Webvan All Kill No Skill 11086	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:24:14 - [27] - Quote Sento Ormand wrote: We want to create content, and we want to die and learn, but not being able to move resources is destroying anything we want to do. So you want to be in a privileged class in the sandbox, free of the nuisance all the other players have had to go through and sometimes still do. So you want consequences for your actions or lack thereof to be stripped away until some later time when you feel you might be willing to adjust to the environment should that day ever come. Not a problem, stay in 1.0 high security space. I'm pretty sure they have some asteroids to mine around the newbie starting stations. Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12 tap-tap to skip through music playlist.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:25:09 - [28] - Quote Fine, if you all want the game to stay how it is, the game will end. The player base is declining for a reason. You all didn't have it harder. Every year that passes puts another year between the new players and the old. That is a huge disadvantage. If you don't want the game to change, it won't, and the game will die because of it.
Sento Ormand Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation 2	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:28:13 - [29] - Quote Webvan wrote: Sento Ormand wrote: We want to create content, and we want to die and learn, but not being able to move resources is destroying anything we want to do. So you want to be in a privileged class in the sandbox, free of the nuisance all the other players have had to go through and sometimes still do. So you want consequences for your actions or lack thereof to be stripped away until some later time when you feel you might be willing to adjust to the environment should that day ever come. Not a problem, stay in 1.0 high security space. I'm pretty sure they have some asteroids to mine around the newbie starting stations. You all claim I am the one not thinking when you "veterans" clearly don't understand. Experience is the biggest strength a player has in this game, and you all did not have it the same. The gap between the veterans and noobs grows and you all clearly do not see that. I will play the game till it dies, but hopefully CPP understands better than you all. Which they likely do as they are the devs and not power hungry players like you all.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 884	Posted - 2015.07.13 13:28:36 - [30] - Quote Why do you guys need it easier than the tens of thousands before you? Answer it! TSHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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