Why do you guys need it easier than the tens of thousands before you?

Answer it!

Fine, if you all want the game to stay how it is, the game will end. The player base is declining for a reason. You all didn't have it harder. Every year that passes puts another year between the new players and the old. That is a huge disadvantage. If you don't want the game to change, it won't, and the game will die because of it.

The problem with being a new player is this:

It's embarrassing.

We're eve-dumb, so we want to hide our dumbness by not exposing to everyone in our brand new "we accept newbros" corporation just how unknowing we are. There's not a single solo activity we can "win". The only chance we have to "win" is to join a corporation and expose our naivety.

So the choice is - Go solo and be bored as excrement because there's nothing we can do effectively/efficiently(compared to all the chest thumping and epeenery as demonstrated in every chat and forum).

Or join a corp and have a bunch of dudes who's sole purpose of allowing us to join being our exploitation to further their own personal agendas at the expense of our time and training queues, all the while opening ourselves up to potential condescending remarks and constant reminders of how little we can actually contribute on a consistent basis.

There needs to be one thing, all new players need is 1 thing we feel we can do/accomplish on equal footing with "veterans" that isn't boring ass station-station hauling.

Like, we can't "join a pvp fleet and tackle" 24/7. As a new player, there's way more down time than active time. Like I personally am reaching the point where I feel I can at least do some things. But in all honesty, those first couple of months was more an exercise of willpower than having an enjoyable experience.

Most support roles in a fleet can be attained within 1 month of training and be about 80% as effective as a veteran. The rest come from experience which you will not get solo anyway. It's hard to understand how to position a support damping wing around your main fleet if you are always solo...

Logi 5 or go home, noob

That is not true at all. You all clearly know nothing about game design. You have to teach people how to play the game, Eve doesn't do that. There should always be a learning period in the game. Core things about Eve are not taught and it is a huge week point.

Sometimes this is great, as with simple games designed around mastery of a few skills. But for games dependent on the interaction of multiple systems, options, strategies, or approaches, detailed tutorials may hurt the player and their long-term experience with the game.

However, putting information like that into a tutorial wouldn't make a lot of sense, because 1 - the tutorial would get longer than some single player games' storylines

It's embarrassing.

That is not true at all. You all clearly know nothing about game design. You have to teach people how to play the game, Eve doesn't do that. There should always be a learning period in the game. Core things about Eve are not taught and it is a huge week point.

Why do you guys need it easier than the tens of thousands before you?

Answer it!

Everybody here has been newbro once, so each new player needs to suffer through all that we did earlier, too.

True. Everyone has been a newbro.

But the more time passes, the larger the gap between new newbros and vets.

And this actually has a bigger impact on non combat related stuff, shooting stuff is easy, a year or so and you can be at a good point with your pew pew skills., even less if you focus on just specific doctrines and don't go blanket

But take mining, trading, industry. A newer player, can't compete with the old guy that has multiple accounts set up with dedicated toons with perfect skills, huge aamounts of stockpiled ****, insane amount of isks, possibility to operate at a loss if needed, and so on.

And the gap only grows larger as time passes really.

Most support roles in a fleet can be attained within 1 month of training and be about 80% as effective as a veteran.

And 50% of new players quit before that even happens. What was the 90 day retention rate? 5%?

I get that bittervets look at a 2 month train for a single skill and think a 1 month train for an entire ship isn't bad. But when talking about the NPE try to keep the "It's not that long" timeframes under 48 hours.

And 50% of new players quit before that even happens. What was the 90 day retention rate? 5%?

I get that bittervets look at a 2 month train for a single skill and think a 1 month train for an entire ship isn't bad. But when talking about the NPE try to keep the "It's not that long" timeframes under 48 hours.

But the more time passes, the larger the gap between new newbros and vets.

This isn't a vertical game. In fact I often prefer to play with my lower SP alts which are quite capable and under a year of training.

You are definately not the most usefull member of a fleet when rocking a maulus in a vexor fleet but you are still there

Fine, if you all want the game to stay how it is, the game will end. The player base is declining for a reason. You all didn't have it harder. Every year that passes puts another year between the new players and the old. That is a huge disadvantage. If you don't want the game to change, it won't, and the game will die because of it.

Which is also something to be careful of. Players can tell when they're only there to be fodder/do the job nobody else wants.

Aim higher. What would that player need to have in hand to actually be a useful member of the fleet? And if CCP can provide that, why shouldn't they?

I see scythe and oneiros in fleet all the time. They require racial cruiser IV to be stable IIRC.

Celestis are baller too.

Blackbird is the ultimate wildcard. You never know if it will really work but when it does, you know the guy on the recieving end is probably swearing like a sailor.

Also, some fleet can be run with logi trained for Minmatar frigate IV and we all know this is quite the long train right...

That gap existed for over a decade and didn't matter. All skills cap at V. The issue is purely based on the egos of those who think they need to catch up. Do you run around IRL blaming old people for being around longer and having more experience? No. And that's the same thing.

Still waiting.

Everybody here has been newbro once, so each new player needs to suffer through all that we did earlier, too.